Trivia Contest: What was the race of the first casualty of each of the first

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two American revolutions? What connection do those causalities have with the first casualty of the 3rd American revolution?

1st Hint: The answer is not 'Caucasian' or 'White'.

2nd Hint (Names):
Crispus Attucks
Hayward Shepherd
Michael Brown

3rd Hint: The answer is highly ironic.

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1. Can you think of a single revolution that has made things better?

The American revolution prolonged slavery in North America by 60 years.

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2. Ah, but the second American Revolution (to quote James McPherson's book

by the same title) ended chattel slavery. I'd say, judging from the reactions of the freed bondsmen who flocked to Sherman's army or fell at Lincoln's feet when he toured the capture Richmond, that the 2nd American Revolution made things better for them.

Do you disagree?

Outside of America, I can think of many revolutions that have made things better, starting with 1640 and 88, moving on to 1789, then to 1917, to 1945 (Vietnam), to 1959 (Cuba) and so on.

[Recursion]

3. The second American Revolution was a failed attempt to extend chattel slavery

(Let's not forget who the revolutionaries were there.) So I guess in its failing, that one was good.

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4. Well, Marxists view the U.S. Civil War as the last revolutionary gasp

of the bourgeoisie making common cause with the proletariat (of the North and West). That revolution - to end chattel slavery in the South -- succeeded. So I guess in its success, that one was good.

[Recursion]

5. You can't call the existing government the "revolution" (at least that seems weird to me pre-Lenin)

Interestingly the Civil War and Crimean War were about when phenomonologies of history stopped making sense to a lot of people.

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7. It's late and it's been a long day. McPherson's book (full title) is "Abraham Lincoln

and the Second American Revolution." McPherson means that the U.S. Civil War so profoundly changed the character of the nation that it constitutes a 'revolution' on a par with the first of 1776-83.

The Southerners were not 'revolutionaries' by any but the most tenuous definition of 'revolutionary'. Aside from being traitors, they were actually 'reactionaries' in my book, trying to preserve an outmoded institution and a great moral evil.

[Recursion]

8. Many, many revolutionaries are reactionaries.

Where did you get the idea that revolutionaries have to be liberal?

There's really no argument here: the Confederates initiated a revolution against the existing government. That makes them revolutionaries. (I was so-so on McPherson's book; he's also not the first person to use that term.) I personally prefer the "three English civil wars" model that ties together 1641, 1775, an 1861.

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9. Many positive numbers are the negative of negative numbers. So, too, a revolutionary

who is a 'reactionary' is really a counter-revolutionary. (Great example is Deng in post-Mao China).

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6. ...

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10. I'll see your funk and raise you some . . . confusion

[pinboy3niner]

11. HA! I was going to post that in a thread yesterday but held off.

The Quincy Jones piece is kind of personal to me. The first time I heard it, I cried. It evoked memories of friends I lost in Vietnam. Friends who were of a "continental origin." Friends who sacrificed their lives serving their country. I saw Quincy do it at the Hollywood Bowl decades ago and it still brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it.