Eric Holder and the FBI are investigating Michael Brown Shooting

[NM_Birder]

My opinion, these will be the only two ways the verdict (once a trial has actually concluded) will be accepted by those that have blinded themselves to any possibility other than this was an obvious racist cop that executed an unarmed black kid.

1) Michael Brown executed by racist white officer.

2) Justified shooting by officer, racist white officer goes free.

Question for those that have concluded the online trial phase of this case, and have concluded that the racist white officer executed Brown, ......

what "if",..... real life is not as cut and dry as it is online, what "if" there is evidence that has not yet been presented by twitter ? what "if" the FBI is unable to secure a conviction for this racist white officer ?

what 'if", Wilson is not convicted ? Is anybody, or more clearly...... is everybody,...... prepared to call Eric Holder and the FBI racist, and in on the fix to set a racist white murderer free ? From a town that two weeks ago didn't exist to 99% of the population ?

has anybody realized that the unreliable, baloney filled news outlets that are regularly chastised for incompetence, are the same bunch of door knobs that are being quoted using words like "proof", even before the crime scene was cleaned up ?

[upaloopa]

1. I don't get your post.

Michael Brown was shot 6 times from a distance with his hands up facing the cop. He was unarmed.
That is fact. Now please give me the evidence that will exonerate the cop.
I doubt you can come up with anything. Maybe because Michael was a large man? Maybe because he had some stolen cigars on his person? Maybe because he smoked some weed some time before the shooting?

[Lee-Lee]

8. What you call "facts" are at best disputed by conflicted witness accounts

Some are saying he had his hands up, some are saying he ran at him.

Since we initially had supposedly reliable accounts from eyewitness' that he was shot in the back, and now know this was not true, it's not wise to call any supposed eyewitness account a "fact"- because just a couple days ago we were hearing for a "fact" he was shot in the back.

Forensics and reconstruction will tell the tale and will show us more reliably than witness statements will.

We know now all shots were in the front. We also know 4 of them hit him in the arms. This would seem to be far more consistent with someone who had arms in front or to the side as officers shoot for center mass first, then move to head shots if that doesn't work. We know he didn't have gunshot residue on his skin, but haven't been told about his clothes yet.

Facts are things verifiable by science or something that can be reviewed like video- eyewitness accounts are at best dubious in many cases.

[MohRokTah]

9. "some say"

Not a single witness has stated Mr. Brown ran at Wilson.

Not one.

[Ms. Toad]

10. All shots were in the front (by autopsy designation), but not necessarily from the front.

The shot to the hand and forearm are equally consistent with coming from the back because of the way many people carry their arms and hands with palms facing backwards.

[upaloopa]

11. No they are not disputed by witness accounts

Three witness statements agree and the autopsy supports that. I don't know where you get your news from but I have been watching and reading this from the beginning.
The only place where I hear what you are saying is from Faux News.

[upaloopa]

12. No witness said he was shot in the back.

You don't know shit about it I can see now. O'Riley said what you are saying. Give it up OK?

[Lee-Lee]

13. Well, now they don't but early accounts did

One example

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Witness-says-Michael-Brown-shot-by-cop-like-an-animal-271089581.html

Johnson said he ducked behind a car as the officer continued shooting at them, hitting Brown in the back.
"His (Brown's) hands immediately went into the air and he turned around to the officer," Johnson recalls. "My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting (him). Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. it was just horrible to watch.".

[upaloopa]

15. That is not a quote it is a reporter's words.

This was brought up on "The Last Word" last night because O'Riley made the same statement you are making.

[Lee-Lee]

14. Another story

According to Johnson, the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot. which struck Brown in the back. He said Brown turned and faced the officer with his hands raised.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/13/ferguson-missouri-teen-shooting-witness/13992387/

[upaloopa]

16. Not a quote a reporter said

How the hell could he be shot in the back then turn around and put his hands up?
A shot in the back would knock him to the ground!
One witness said Michael jerked as if hit when his back was to the cop. She did not say he was shot in the back either.

[Lee-Lee]

17. People getting shot isn't like the movies

It doesn't knock people down- physics and all make that impossible.

They fall because they lost control of legs, or many keep standing.

[upaloopa]

19. Don't tell me I am a war vet

[Rex]

43. Yeah that is about the biggest pile of misinformation I've seen on here in a long time.

A bullet doesn't have the impact power to spin a person around or knock them off their feet? I call BS too.

[Rex]

42. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

Okay now you are just flat making stuff up. A bullet SURE CAN spin a person around like a top! Where in the world did you get that opinion from?

[caraher]

73. Only to the degree the shooter would also be affected

It's conservation of momentum - the impact of a bullet imparts no greater impulse than the "kick" felt by the shooter. If that's enough to spin the shooter around like a top then what you say is true. However, reactions to being shot are more a matter of biology and reflexes than the physics of the bullet impact.

This is a standard physics textbook problem; Mythbusters also looked at this, twice, deeming people-toppled-by-bullet-momentum "busted" both times (and they used .50 cal rounds the second time around).

[Rex]

75. Yes and saying it is impossible set the stage for failure early.

I see you agree with me, I guess you've seen it happen too? In RL, not in the movies.

[caraher]

77. I'm happy not to have seen anyone shot in real life

I wasn't sure whether or not I was agreeing with you - I just wanted to weigh in on the physics. A bullet impact may or may not cause someone to stagger or spin around, but if it does it's almost entirely because of the body's movements in reaction to the wound, rather than because of the bullet's momentum (which is what the other poster should have written to be more careful, rather than declaring such motions "impossible" due to physics).

If I jerk my hand away from a hot stove, did the heating element cause my motion? From a physics perspective, not really, but from a more holistic perspective, certainly. The bullet case is analogous to that.

[Rex]

85. Well actually YES the heating element did cause your motion. A question, would a cold heating

element also cause your hand motion? There is the rub...you get a choice, with a hot element it is reflexive to pull your hand away. Grant you not every bullet has a large enough psi to pick someone up off the ground...I never said that at all.

[caraher]

89. I guess it's more about what Lee-Lee posted

You didn't say a bullet could pick someone up off the ground, but a lot of people do imagine bullets carry that much momentum. I think the point Lee-Lee was trying to make was that this isn't the case, but they made too strong a statement!

I think we do pretty much agree here... and getting back to the larger issue, I've not immersed myself in the minutiae of the Michael Brown killing because whether he was shot from in front, behind, above, below or the side doesn't make a lick of difference to me. Police violence is out of control, this is but one of many shocking examples, and it needs to stop no matter what Brown did or did not do.

[Rex]

91. Agree 100%. 6 is 6 times too many.

Even if he spun around, put his hand down...excessive force and fleeing the scene...totally unacceptable from a peace officer imo.

[uponit7771]

38. The "shot in the back" depend on where his hands were... there's nothing say he wasn't shot in back

[jakeXT]

2. The FBI agent who shot Todeshev had a murky past and nothing happened

The Boston FBI agent who fatally shot a Chechen friend of Tamerlan Tsarnaev in Florida last year had a brief and troubled past at the Oakland Police Department in California. In four years, Officer #8313 took the Fifth at a police corruption trial and was the subject of two police brutality lawsuits and four internal affairs investigations. He retired from the department in 2004 at age 31.

..

In California, lawyers who had sued McFarlane in Oakland were stunned that the FBI later hired him.

“I would be shocked to learn that the Aaron McFarlane we sued a decade ago could have gone on to have a career with the FBI,” said Ian Kelley, a San Francisco lawyer who sued McFarlane on behalf of a man, Michael Cole, who accused McFarlane and another officer of beating him.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/13/fbi-shooter-had-stormy-record-officer/7zJ1ha78Z0SpfDey0PBuJJ/story.html

The F.B.I. Deemed Agents Faultless in 150 Shootings

...

“The F.B.I. takes very seriously any shooting incidents involving our agents, and as such we have an effective, time-tested process for addressing them internally,” a bureau spokesman said.

But if such internal investigations are time-tested, their outcomes are also predictable: from 1993 to early 2011, F.B.I. agents fatally shot about 70 “subjects” and wounded about 80 others — and every one of those episodes was deemed justified, according to interviews and internal F.B.I. records obtained by The New York Times through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/us/in-150-shootings-the-fbi-deemed-agents-faultless.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[bullwinkle428]

26. THANK YOU for bringing up the Todashev case. Rachel Maddow has been on

this one from the beginning, and her commentary on the FBI conclusion about it being a "clean shoot" was totally dripping with skepticism. To me, this makes federal involvement in this case anything but a "slam dunk" as far as prosecuting D. Wilson.

[BronxBoy]

3. At least 4 witnesses

say this young man was shot from a distance with his hands up. Are they lying?

Not understanding the point of this post

[MohRokTah]

5. "Not understanding the point of this post"

Since the OP already has 4 hides in the last 90 days, maybe they're shooting for a timeout?

[MohRokTah]

24. .

[Quayblue]

20. seems like black witnesses lie a lot in this country

they all get together and make up shit even though they know the gravity of the situation. They're just gonna lie because hey, all black people do is lie, commit crimes and think about running down the police.

Let those same witnesses be white and no one will be talking some, "Oh, let's wait for the investigational facts."

[BronxBoy]

21. Apparently.....

I guess if I am ever a witness to anything I should say the exact opposite of what I saw.

[JustAnotherGen]

34. You are the best!

Because it's true. Bang on - dead on - you are telling a hard truth.

[MohRokTah]

4. Remember what happened with Rodney King?

Yeah, that will be nice by comparison if this cop doesn't do time.

[4139]

6. ...and holder also investigated zimmerman

[FarPoint]

37. They looked into it...

Long after the incident I believe.

[NM_Birder]

28. "convict him of else"

That's even better than calling everything anyone says on TV...... a "fact".

[MohRokTah]

29. You're still here? Thought you might have stepped away.

[NM_Birder]

31. If I was, who are you talking to ?

[MohRokTah]

32. .

[MohRokTah]

68. You'll be on your way back to Stormfront soon.

Alerted.

[NRaleighLiberal]

69. that one is persistent...but we are more persistent!

[MohRokTah]

72. Maybe he's too radical for Stormfront?

[arcane1]

76. Or too stupid and impotent for them

Which says a lot!

[Gothmog]

7. This is a very positive development

[upaloopa]

18. It is obvious you are buying the media stories

and not the facts. You are a pawn of the attempt to blame the victim. You and people like you are the reason there is so much anger in Ferguson. Why not try to be more objective and put yourself in the place of the residents there. They are not the evil ones here. They are victims. If we are to ever see justice we have to put ourselves in the shoes of the African Americans there and see the world through their eyes!

[NM_Birder]

30. what exactly are "the facts"

[upaloopa]

33. You know as well as I. You know all the news accounts

I am not going to argue this with you. You know everything I know. You choose to take a side and you will say what ever it takes to back it up. There are no other facts then those reported the day of the shooting. Everything else has been made up or said after the fact by those with an agenda.

[NM_Birder]

45. I think you completely missed my point.

There are no "facts", there is a crap load of incomplete gossip being spread around without the slightest care in the world what it stirs up. It's a matter of how much attention can be given to what "I" say, the more controversial,, the faster it is accepted as "fact".

facts, the day of the shooting ? Seriously ? Like the first kid with a microphone shoved in his face telling how Mike was shot in the back ? Brown is dead, and the cop shot him, other than that I would say there are no facts.

The grand jury hasn't heard the evidence, but everyone is convinced Twitter has all the "facts"

[upaloopa]

51. No you are stating your opinion only

We all have opinions we are entitled to our opinion. There are facts. We are not entitled to our own facts.
There are witnesses to what happened. To some degree what they describe as happening reflects the facts.
Now I heard two of the eye witnesses give their account if what they saw. I believe what they said is as close to the truth that we will ever get. The victim is dead and the shooter has his ass to protect. The witnesses to the event are all we have to go on. I believe they are telling the truth as they saw it.

[bravenak]

44. Facts.

An unarmed teen was shot at least 6 times by a cop. Had that teen shot a cop 6 times, that teen would be in jail no matter uf he felt in fear for hs life from the cop.

Fact. The cop is hiding.

Fact. The police are rioting.

Fact. The headshot was the kill shot.

Face. He had already been shot in the face.

Fact. Most people fall from a face shot.

Fact. Cops violate the civil rights of black men most of all.

[NM_Birder]

48. well, you started out with a fact, but couldn't hold it together.

yes, Brown was shot by a cop = fact

"had the teen .......... whatever" = not a fact, it's an assumption
brown shot six times = fact, according to the second of three scheduled autopsy anyway

No the police are not rioting.
yes the head shot killed Brown = fact
Already shot in the face, = reasonable assumption but not fact

Most people fall from a face shot = not a fact, an assumption
cops violate civil rights of black men most of all = assumption

[bravenak]

54. Cops don't violate the civil rights of blacks most of all?

Bullshit.

The ME says the head shot was final. Fact!

The police are rioting. Fact! Proof? I made a statement last night that backs up my claim. I am a witness, since I was watching.

Most people DO fall from a gunshot to the face. They usually pass out.

How many black teens shoot a cop sux times and the cops say they wont arrest until they investigate? I googlepd it. Nothing. So. It's a fact!


Keep lying for them. It looks stupid and helps show the world how ignorant the cops arguments are.


You must b a cop. Or love them so.

[bravenak]

64. Sorry.

THEY ARE ALL FACTS!!!

[NM_Birder]

70. Capital letters, never does what people think they do.

I believe you, exactly as much as I believe the news tells the whole story.
THAT ..... bravenak is an undisputed fact, because it's true, and not opinion.

[bravenak]

71. I believe I know what you are....

And so does everybody else here on DU. You ain't fooling nobody. The State will end up paying millions to the family for this MURDER.

[NM_Birder]

78. no worries, I've never alterted on anybody ...ever

I assume you are skating around .... not calling me a troll ? It's OK, I'll live, I haven't been hurt by name calling in 35 years or so.

You seem to get overly upset when someone doesn't just agree with you, because of who you are. That happens in online discussions, again it's OK,... I'll be alright.

I doubt very seriously you could tout the absence of your google result, or the amount of TV you watch, not to mention "because I said it" as proof of fact ....... in a person to person conversation. But that was the whole point of my thread, not having to take personal responsibility for the words you speak, gives confidence to say ANYTHING and believe you are right, for that rush of acceptance.

Say "because I didn't get a google result, that proves it's a fact" out loud, do it without laughing.


"the State will end up paying millions to the family for this murderer",....probably,.... but I didn't know that was your point. Now I see what value your "facts" have, civil lawsuit payback.
You will win even if he's found not guilty.

[bravenak]

81. Are you trying to tell me you know what I'm thinking?

You don't.

This I what i think. White, middle class, middle age, male. Also, oblivious or not interested in the reality of black male interactions with the police. Also, don't really care if our right are violated as long as it's quiet and undisturbing.

Who am I exactly, since you know 'you seem to get overly upset with people who don't agree with you because of who you are.' ? Usually I laugh at people who aren't smart enough to agree with me, and i feel sorry for them when they devalue the life experience of Blacks in America and stand in judgement on them.

I have never heard of young black men constantly getting the benefit of doubt after shooting a cop multiple times. And neither have you. So. Fact. Black men get arrested for shooting cops if hey live long enough to get arrested.

As for the troll part. Glad you said it so I don't have to!

I'll win even if he's found not guilty. No, him being found not guilty is YOU winning. It's just a regular day for me.

[NM_Birder]

92. wow, didn't expect that,

who could possibly have doubted, that you would deduce, that someone who doesn't agree with you is white, and by your general theme...racist. What are the odds huh ?

This is what is interesting, if I guessed your real life persona the way you just did to me .............. you wouldn't be able to cry RACIST fast enough.

LOL ...."laugh at people not smart enough to agree with me" .........noble.....and lonely I'm sure.

Still haven't googled "fact" have you ?

[bravenak]

93. I see you cannot deny my claims.

I'm better than Miss Cleo. I got you pegged.

[bravenak]

94. Awwww!

See ya later!! No, I'm not lonely, just boring.
I have kids and a husband. And a mother. And like 1 friend.
And yes, thank you. I do believe in my own nobility, yes.

And Sir, for future reference, WHITE does not equal RACIST. My white family are better on race issues than most people. They are anti racists and get more angry than I do when they see an injustice. They feel like it is their JOB to speak up loudest, because sometimes WE don't get heard or get so used to it, we try to ignore it. I cannot imagine my mother in law IGNORING racist shit. She was married to a black man in the seventies and disowned for it.

And yes. My real life persona is awesome. Just like here. And cute. Really, really cute!

[GeorgeGist]

22. Here's a fact you forgot ...

Darren Wilson is on the lam.

[NM_Birder]

25. Perfect example.

1 He is not "on the lam", but man that makes for a good stir stick
2 If you just make shit up, you can't call it a "fact"

I 'heard " he was on paid administrative leave, as is standard procedure anytime an officer is involved in a shooting. What needs to happen is deliver him to the mob tonight, on the front bumper, kinda like Road Warrior.


But hey, maybe he is "on the Lam"....see......he's makin a get a way see....... hidin from the coppers see..........

[Rex]

46. Ooooh that rubbed someone the wrong way!

True, he is a fugitive fleeing from a crime scene.

[NM_Birder]

49. THAT is the thread winner !

"Furgeson cop ...on the lam,.......a fugitive from justice" that's the headline right there.

[Rex]

65. Not my fault you don't know what the word means.

fu·gi·tive
ˈfyo͞ojətiv/Submit
noun
a person who has escaped from a place or is in hiding, especially to avoid arrest or persecution.
"fugitives from justice"
synonyms: escapee, runaway, deserter, absconder; refugee
"a hunted fugitive"
quick to disappear; fleeting.
adjective: fugitive
"he entertained a fugitive idea that Barbara needed him"

[NM_Birder]

74. lol, escaped or is in hiding ..."especially to avoid arrest or prosectution"

That's exactly what you meant, we both know it, and it's even funnier all English Majored out like that.
"The hunted fugitive" ... shit, there's the movie title.

Or did you mean "he entertained a fugitive idea that Barbara needed him",


Very similar, but not as effective as people saying Brown was "executed", ....... now THAT has social frenzy punch power.

[Rex]

90. Yeah your assumptions do get the best of you. Sorry, but you fail.

I meant 'someone fleeing'...great to know how your mind works though, thanks!

[VanGoghRocks]

27. What "if" that pig Wilson was all hopped up on speed or steroids? Will he be able to

plead successfully diminished capacity to avoid the death penalty?

[NM_Birder]

36. Speed and steroids ? man thats a good one too.

What if Brown isn't really dead ? Instead, he was injected with a top secret knock-out drug and they planted his still living body in Furgeson, that way, the FBI and the national guard could be brought in and REALLY start a race war !

The militarized local police, acting under the direction of Eric Holder will soon release the social fury, and future generations will know that Furgeson MO, was the flash point that ended modern civilization.

If speculation is all that is even mildly recognized, why keep it so tame ?

Instead of a tragic event yet to be played out in the court of law, this could be "Bourne Identity" meets "24". with just a dash of "The Equalizer".........

[gordianot]

35. Your point is lost. What is it?

[NM_Birder]

40. Nobody knows shit about this case.

yet everyone has all the "facts",....... from the same "news" sources everyone complains that the right wing owns.

[LanternWaste]

55. I'm glad you're out there pretending to tell us what is or is not relevant.

I'm glad you're out there pretending to tell us what is or is not relevant.

[gordianot]

56. So far people have been fed that as a steady diet primarily from so called official sources.

They are outraged. If you want to blame someone blame the system that is resolving this at a snails pace who by the way is feeding that to News Media. This entire mess is a textbook case of total lack of Government transparency. The official Government source in Ferguson discredits itself every time they offer an official statement. Who can blame the citizens of Ferguson and across the nation from being confused as chaos descends on an American City. The press is also not the cause.

[Little Star]

66. Assholes don't have points.

[NM_Birder]

82. You couldn't ive without an asshole,

it's one of the most important sphincters in the human body.
that ...is a fact.

[bravenak]

88. Yes you can.

Colostomy bag. My friend has one.

[Katashi_itto]

95. The Results are in. The Alerter will have a sad.

randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Aug 19, 2014, 06:50 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alert is ridiculous
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If the alerter was targeting the post by Little Star, I'd agree that it was over the top. This one not so much.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Really? Alerts for nothing? Series1111
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The statement was supposed to be humorous, although a not very good attempt. I don't see that he was subtly trying to call the other poster an asshole.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter is wrong. Little Star is the poster who basically referred to the OP as an asshole. There's nothing wrong with this particular post. If anything, the post to which it is responding is the one that should be hidden.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[maced666]

39. YES!

Here come the big dogs...you can see the rats scurry in fear. Love it.

[bravenak]

41. And the same cops that have been lying for years and protecting bad racst cops are tear gassing

children and families to 'keep the peace'.

It's obvious to anybody with half a brain that the cops are out of control. And racist. The stats in that town prove it.

We are tired of being treated like supercriminals. And we are tired of people minimizing the value of our lives like i feel you are kinda doing right now.

[Rex]

47. There is one type of person that is completely blind to these kinda things imo

we call them something that sorta rhymes with 'tasteless'.

[bravenak]

53. Yep.

Or pacist.

[NM_Birder]

50. "tear gassing children and families" ... no elderly ?

[bravenak]

52. They did arrest a holocaust survivor.

[NM_Birder]

57. well, there you go....

holocaust survivor is irrelevant, he/she is mid seventies at least. Why was he/she arrested ?

[gordianot]

58. You said elderly, maybe not teargassed. Maybe she flashed her id tattoo and made someone feel bad.

I remember an asswipe years ago who used that same phrase followed by the word "again".

[NM_Birder]

60. ? guess you don't know why arrested either.

if I knew what you're talking about, I might have been impressed by your memory.

[gordianot]

62. Maybe she is just tired of not knowing "shit" and got snippy the "elderly" do that sometimes.

[NM_Birder]

80. You don't know either do you ?

staring to sound made up.
I'll wait to see if someone else knows. I don't, and apparently you don't either.

[gordianot]

84. Here you go!

see link: http://www.kmov.com/special-coverage-001/Protesters-march-against-Nixons-use-of-National-Guard-troops-in-downtown-271737361.html

By the way do you know how to use GOOGLE? It took about 4 seconds. I googled "Holocaust Survivor Arrested St. Louis" think she meets the category as elderly. The reason most people probably do not respond to you much is they think you are not worth it

[NM_Birder]

60. ? guess you don't know why arrested either.

if I knew what you're talking about, I might have been impressed by your memory.

[bravenak]

63. She was arrested for supporting the black citizen of Ferguson.

[NM_Birder]

79. is that a fact, or opinion ?

someone else said because she was "snippy"

[bravenak]

83. She was arrested for protesting.

In the daytime. Like she was told to do. Do you need a linky poo from my googler? Oh, that's right, you don't trust google. You just trust the cops who play target practice on Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown, recent high school graduate and Technical College enrollee. Mr. Brown, never convicted of a crime, not chance to defend himself in the media or the courtroom because the murder Darren Wilson shot him like a coward in the bloody streets of Ferguson, witnessed by for named witnesses who saw him with his hands up. Black witnesses whose statements are ignored as you favor right wing talking points released by non witnesses who are friends of the accused. The accused who refuses to speak for himself and allows the department to engage in character assassination.

[gordianot]

86. I used Google and since I saw your post tried several other search engines it still comes up.

I do wonder how this guy found DU on the internet.

[bravenak]

87. Conservative cave has a special section dedicated to DU.

Apparently he's anti google.