I genuinely wonder if Skinner is aware...

[MaggieD]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by DonViejo (a host of the General Discussion forum).

That he has created a cesspool of a forum for right wing nuts at Discussionist. Perhaps he felt in his heart of hearts that right wing nuts just didn't have enough space on the internet to spew their ignorance and hate. I guess that is possible. But hopefully not.

Currently they band together to silence all but the mildest of liberal opinion via the jury system. Hint: it really doesn't work when half or more of the jury pool consists of knuckle dragging morons. And even if it did, why give racists and bigots and frankly idiots yet another forum to spew on the internet? Was the internet lacking in that and I just didn't notice?

I'm guessing if it catches on the ads will bring in money. Or is there some other reason? Do tell.

[Prophet 451]

1. That's why I avoid the place

All the conservatives are whacko dittoheads and they run the roost.

[MaggieD]

3. But...

But wasn't that predictable? So to me it's like a deliberate creation of a new freeperville. I don't get it. Why?

[Prophet 451]

8. Naivite maybe?

I'm certain I've spelled that wrong. But maybe Skinner really thought that teh place would host thoughful, fruitful discussions between liberals and conservatives. He forgot the simple fact that they hate us. The entire conservative principle today is just a hatred for all things liberal, there is no more complex motivation than that. And in any forum where they're allowed to, conservative zombies swarm like locusts, telling everyone how much they hate liberals for being liberal.

That, or maybe ad money.

[Sheldon Cooper]

20. You're overthinking this. It's all about:

[moriah]

2. Maybe to keep them away from DU?

I always figured it was a place for all the people who might ordinarily troll just to talk to liberals to go, so that they'd stop trolling as much here.

[MaggieD]

4. Then why not better mod here?

It won't keep the nutballs away forever. Why not just better moderation here? My cynical side says automod and make bucks. Who cares about the content?

They are idiots over there. Free to spew the same shit we see on Faux News 24/7. Why deliberately create another place for that?

[MADem]

12. Who wants to "manage" this site? Let the customers do it themselves.

"Mods" are passe--the jury system is the standard. No one has to work too hard, no one has too much power, and "mods" aren't using their judgment to decide what is acceptable.

The system works fine here. It's not always fair, but life isn't either. It was a crap shoot with "the mods" too--if they didn't like you, they'd hide your posts and get you tombstoned.

That site 'over there' earns money for the site owners too. This isn't their fun--it's their jobs. They have kids to feed; they aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

It's a BUSINESS.

[brush]

50. Kinda fell a couple of notches in my book

If you're an investor you can choose to not invest in fracking companies or big oil or vulture hedge funds or any number of other questionable, for-the-money-only ventures.

Likewise, if you're a business person you can choose not to invest in a business that provides a forum for hate spewers — and if the spewing somehow wasn't anticipated but occurred, make adjustments or shut it down — unless it all about the money.

And that would be unfortunate and certainly not progressive as there are other ways to make money.

[Heidi]

5. Is there any evidence that it keeps them away from DU,

or that keeping them away from DU was even the admins' intent?

[betterdemsonly]

21. I don't think it does.

The jury system is easily manipulated by various interest groups too. They just need an email list and warning system.

[MadrasT]

34. At least one of DUs more prolific flame bait posters has virtually abandoned DU for Discussionist.

That is a huge win in my book.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

54. Logic would suggest it does to some extent.

You've only got 24 hours in the day - any time you spend elsewhere is time not spent here. Put enough honey traps out, and you reduce the amount of time trolls have to spend at the places you care about.

[Blue_In_AK]

6. Why do you care?

If it bothers you, don't go there.

[alphafemale]

30. Exactly^^^^^This.

[magical thyme]

51. exactly!!!!! +1,000

I go to discussionist. I find perfectly nice former DUers who were banned for what I consider to be ridiculous "offenses" and whose contributions I appreciated while they were DUers. I find reasonable right wingers where we are able to find common ground and try coming up with workable solutions to problems. And I find right wing nutcases, who I tend to ignore.

You don't like it? Don't go there.

[Warren DeMontague]

7. If only there were some forum where you could ask the administrators directly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1259

[Gormy Cuss]

60. No guaranteed the question would ever see the light of day in that forum, alas.

About 1 in 5 ATA questions are never answered. A side effect of this is that one never knows why this subset is ignored. I suspect it is for a variety of reasons but in my own experience it sometimes seems that admin just isn't interested in addressing dissent.

[Union Scribe]

9. It was interesting at first.

But yeah it's basically a tire fire at this point.

[MADem]

10. It's a TRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it's a trap--a corral, a holding pen, whatever. It gives the wingnuts a place to go. It gives people who like to argue with wingnuts a place to do it.

It's not like Skinner doesn't know who's who in that zoo vis a vis this one; and it's a way to gain revenue via page clicks from people who have been tombstoned here.


It's a win-win. More power to Discussionist--they take a lot of the worst of the nastiness out of here. Not all of it, but a goodly percentage.

[davidpdx]

13. If only we had some kind of a virtual prison we could put them in

hmm....

[MADem]

16. +1! nt

[randome]

25. From tombstoned to phantom-zoned.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[BainsBane]

11. He must be

He posts there.

He said the purpose of the site wasn't even to be about politics, but that is what it has become. It's full of file racists and misogynists.

I disagree with your assessment of juries there, however. I've been on many juries there and they lean liberal, not right. That's not to say all kinds of vile stuff doesn't get through, but I disagree that liberals are treated more harshly than conservatives.

As for the reason for it, it's a business venture like any other.

[davidpdx]

14. My guess is the majority of the people over there are

ankle-biting right wing assholes.

[eridani]

15. I think of it as a nature preserve for trolls, in which we are--

--allowed to tease the wildlife. If they're over there, they're not over here.

[In_The_Wind]

24. It's become a bit more peaceful here ... Thank you, Skinner.

[img][/img]

[littlemissmartypants]

17. Money over everything. eom

[RKP5637]

43. Yep, that's exactly what it's about since day one. Use the DU methodology modified to tap

another easy revenue stream.

[AnalystInParadise]

18. Not really different than this place

I have been flood alerted twice now by some people that can't handle divergent thought. I disagreed with PBO about something his fan club loved and I had 5-10 posts alerted in a singe thread more than once, evidence of alert abuse. I won several 4-3 decisions and lost several 4-3 decisions and I didn't say anything out of the ordinary, but when you have 5-10 posts in a single thread alerted on within 5 minutes and there was little to no swearing, just disagreement, it stands to reason that you have pissed someone off. I spent my time in time out because some people around here band together to silence opinion as well as they do over at the other place. The difference is that here it is supposedly "our own people" silencing us for the crime of having a different opinion. But I am still here so yeah...............

[tridim]

31. Can you post a link to the thread?

I'd like to see what you're talking about.

[Hoyt]

19. I do participate there, but the right wingers are really vile and racist.Of course, they won't admit

it, they are just being honest according to them.

To that crowd, Michael Brown is just another "thug" who got what he deserved and it doesn't happen often enough.

[LloydS of New London]

22. Never been there

So I wouldn't know either way.

[pintobean]

23. It sucks that we're required to participate there.

[Inkfreak]

26. Some of those posters are pretty darn annoying.

But here are cool posters. More people are needed I think. I get jury service a lot when I go to the site. I figure with more posters the pool will open up and if more of those posters were Dems, then maybe some of the dumb shit might have a better chance of being hidden. The Brown shooting has ramped up the bullshit. Never seen so many uses of the words "thugs" & " animals". It's pretty eye opening how easily people fall into roles, though.

It's Skinners site to do as he pleases. He's under no obligation to make sure DU members approve.

[WinkyDink]

47. "More people are needed I think." I'd say that entire board needs not exist.

[pinboy3niner]

27. I seriously wonder if Skinner is real

I'm increasingly convinced he's just a net persona created by the real head of DU, who is actually a woman in Cleveland. I wish I were free to say more...

[Agschmid]

29. You've already said too much.

In other news I decided my female alter ego's name is Wendy. I imagine Skinners real name is Marge... Shhhh... Don't tell anyone.

[TBF]

36. And she likes cats -

I've always suspected it was SalmonChantedEvening who really runs this place!

[underpants]

55. Skinner is all knowing and all seeing

He wanted me to ask you to move a bit to your left so they can what other websites you have on your screen ....... Damn! Really?

Anyway I know he is real. Back in 2002 at the anti-war march I went by the DU offices and put a Nader sticker on his car. Tough getting through security. Grovelbot patrols the perimeter.

[In_The_Wind]

61. There was this guy I met in Boston and again in Washington who was introduced as Skinner.

As for the woman in Cleveland: She seems to be fond of Kale.
There is at least one DUer who is sweet on her.

[gordianot]

28. Sewer ponds are smelly but sometimes necessary

Septic tanks are even better go there for research you do not have to participate and no one will accuse you of trolling if you ever respond.

[WinkyDink]

48. I live in the US with US media. That's enough "research" into that world.

[2pooped2pop]

32. never could've guessed it would turn out that way

Not in a million years

[KG]

33. really. coz if i wanted to debate conservatives, I wouldn't even have to leave DU

[GusBob]

35. yep nt

[phylny]

37. I haven't been there, and won't be visiting. I wondered, though, if my monthly

contribution here is finding the other site.

[Autumn]

38. Maybe revenue is down here and money is the reason. Or maybe he is just sick

of the whining and carrying on that goes on in this place . He does seem to post and interact more with posters over there, and seems to have fun doing it.

[99Forever]

39. It is a racist cesspool, the jury system is manipulated.

And the administrators of that site don't care enough about what happens to even respond when you voice your concerns to them about it.

[hlthe2b]

40. I think it is clear that fewer and fewer liberals, especially DUers, are posting there...

which is causing the imbalance on the juries that allows so much blatant racism, and appalling level of misogyny to pass by.

Understandable that DUers that went there for curiosity would be turned off by the content. Unforunately, as they fail to post anything, their chances of serving on juries when they are there continues to dwindle (based on # posts in past 90 days) and the problem is compounded.

I see a lot of offensive crap there, but if anything is to be done about it, it will require more lib/progressives to be active over there. My saying this is a bit hypocritical I admit--because I do not like the kind of RW posters it attracts and I don't wish to spend time over there either.

[JaydenD]

45. It sounds like a horrible place

I used to do that years ago, go onto sites to argue with right wing nonsense. I'm over that completely. It's like diving into an outhouse hole, who the heck wants that? I can't see how a sister site to this one, overrun by rw racists is a good business model. I think it sort of lowers the credibility of this place.

[RKP5637]

41. It's another niche market for more cash! n/t

[BlueJazz]

42. My feelings are: The people that own/run Discussionist have every right to experiment,...

....judge, remake or change any part of said site. While I think the people that own DU are smart cookies, I don't think they are capable of seeing the complete future of any site they make.

I suppose I'm saying: Let them do their thing...if they see it's not working to their likes, they'll take care of it.

[Lex]

44. Clicks (page views) = money.

It's a way to capture a revenue stream off them. It adds nothing else to the world but another right-wing spew site--and that surely wasn't needed.

[Katashi_itto]

46. It's about Revenue. Nothing else.

[MrScorpio]

49. Posting there doesn't bother me at all

For the longest time, quite a few of our wingers friends have yearned to debate us.

I said, cool, let's do it over there. Everyone is welcome, right?

So, I figure, why not serve a purpose to force them to regret that decision? And that's where I come in.

Frankly, I'm having a ball.

Yep, that joint is chock full of racists, misogynists, sexists and genuinely horrible people, but most of them suffer from an Achilles Heel... Themselves.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. We should be able to kick their assees in debate if our ideas are better.

I trust they are..

[Lex]

58. Theoretically that's true if you are debating people who value facts.

I don't find that to be the case.

[still_one]

53. Did you ever consider that it is for business purposes, and less to do with ideology?

[Zorra]

56. Or maybe

Welcome to Discussionist!

[MineralMan]

57. Ask the admins over at Discussionist. That'd be my call.

I really don't think what happens there should be a topic here. You could ask your question here in the Ask the Administrators forum, but they'll probably suggest that you keep Discussionist questions on Discussionist.

While some DUers are active over there, most are not. Those who are not can't answer your question.

[Ms. Toad]

59. Since he participates there a lot more than I've seen him participate here -

I suspect he knows what he has created and disagrees.

[DonViejo]

62. Locked...

A consensus of Forum Hosts believe this question and discussion are more appropriate for posting in the Ask the Administrators Group.