General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhite House seeks Congressional Mandate to use American military in Iraq again.
Last edited Sat Aug 23, 2014, 09:38 AM - Edit history (2)
I'm sorry to say so, but it looks like all of those poor, worn-out, PTSD-suffering multiple combat tour veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan are about to be ordered to "mount up" once again. The Pentagon is going back to war where they like doing war the best, in those oil-rich deserts of the Middle East!
Militant Islamist fighters on a tank take part in a military parade along the streets of northern Raqqa province (Reuters)
US considers broad military action against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.
As the US has acknowledged that the Islamic State group is a greater threat than Al-Qaeda, the White House is reportedly seeking domestic legal justification at home to use unlimited military force against the Sunni extremists in Iraq and Syria. On Friday, the Obama administration said that the killing of American journalist James Foley by Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) militants amounts to a direct terrorist attack on the United States.
"We have seen them posing a threat to our interests in the region, to our personnel and facilities in the region, and clearly the brutal execution of Jim Foley represented an affront, an attack - not just on him, he's an American - and we see that as an attack on our country, when one of our own is killed like that," said Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes.
This comes a day after US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel stressed that the IS terrorist organization is so well funded and managed, that it “is beyond anything that we've seen. So we must prepare for everything.”
Now the White House is considering seeking domestic approval for military action and a mandate from Congress would do just fine, a senior administration official told the Washington Post.
(snip)
Read more at: http://rt.com/usa/182280-us-threat-isis-syria/
STOP THE NEW IRAQ WAR NOW!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/write-or-call
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)You know, the ones who wear all those stars and colored ribbons on their always sharply-pressed, dress uniforms. Those guys, and the defense contractors they love, are our country's greatest threat, a greater threat than the so-called "Islamic State" by a long shot.
TheNutcracker
(2,104 posts)
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)To the congress. This body ceded the War Powers to Bush wholesale after 9/11 and have used the Patriot Act as an excuse to absolve themselves of any responsibility for foreign policy or issues of war and peace. I welcome this move because you know darned well that that legislators will try to make political hay regardless of what happens. Force them on the record and to have some responsibility for such an action at a time when it needs to be debated in public. I'm tired of the legislative branch of government being given a perpetual pass for their blatant negligence of duty to the people or the process.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Our troops will be greeted as liberators. They will be given showers of flowers and ticker tape. True democracy will reign again. And Hil' will ride the coat tails of this success like a surfer on a 30 foot wave. It's all good.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Who was the guy who I heard that from? Was it somebody named Dick, or maybe Donald?
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)RT only publishes the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Lets have some details, Don.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)That was most timely.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)will treat this like the Bush admin. I know we all have war fatigue (as does the Military and the US National Budget) but if the US does nothing and ISIL grows, festers and then does something horrific within our borders, people will complain that Obama didn't do anything.
I just can't see this being the prolonged action that we had under Shrub.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)We have a totally different military culture now running the Pentagon, right?
(sigh)
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)who, I'd like to believe, would not act as GWB.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Otherwise, don't bet the farm on it.
President Obama is only one person holding only one office. He can't hardly stand against all of the war-mongers (and their mega-wealthy backers). He can't, that is, unless a great many of us lend him a hand.
STOP THE NEW IRAQ WAR NOW!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/write-or-call
IronGate
(2,186 posts)it's murderous rampage in the ME, yet wholeheartedly support Russia's invasion of the sovereign country of Ukraine.
Curious.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)Putin at war in all but name with Ukraine is action against the West, and therefore good.
He will not, at least not yet, have the nerve to declare I.S.I.L. good because it acts against the West, but certainly since I.S.I.L. acts against the West, any action by the West against I.S.I.L. is bad.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts) grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)military.
We've tried the violent, costly solutions, how bout we give peace a chance?
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Let ISIS continue their murderous rampage across the ME? Let them grow stronger and stronger?
No way, I support President Obama's efforts to rein in the rampage of ISIS and I would be willing to be called up again to active duty to help in his efforts.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)together to fight these guys... It'll be good for them.
It's a 1400 year old war. "You can't win it" -GWB
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)Though what your ritual noise has to do with my comment is unclear.
Nor is it clear McCain and Graham financed the I.S.I.L.; they hardly disburse funds from the U.S. Treasury.
U.S. policy has been to lend some support to elements of the Syrian rebellion believed to be hostile to the I.S.I.L., and essentially on condition recipients fight that body. There have certainly been defections from supported bodies to I.S.I.L., and doubtless there has been corrupt transfer of aid in some cases; misjudgements of this sort abound in efforts to meddle in the region, and we are much more prone to it than the older colonial powers were, but these things do not give sound basis for claims the United States 'supported' or 'funded' the I.S.I.L., or created it.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Syria that turned into ISIS, there would be no ISIS.
After 12 years, you must agree that our use of force in Iraq has produced zero benefits for the Iraqi and American people.
Logic dictates we try a different course of action.
In my view, it is unreasonable to believe that further violence will do anything but create even more violent extremists.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)The situation now is what it is, and that is what must be dealt with.
There is less utility than some seem to suppose in tracing matters back and back and back....
"You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule."
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)SidDithers
(44,333 posts)
Sid
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)perpetual war
IronGate
(2,186 posts)but you keep on with that fantasy if it justifies in your mind your support for Russian intervention in Ukraine.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)IronGate
(2,186 posts)I lost friends because of the ineptness, but that we have a responsibility to fix what we fucking broke and if it means destroying these ISIS murders, then I support President Obama's efforts up to and including my being called to active duty again.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)are bit players in a much longer conflict.
We will leave. They will continue. I would hope 12 years would be enough proof of that for us.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Thanks for the civil conversation.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)Are folks buying war bonds from Putin? Are they enlisting in the Russian army? Is there some crowd cheering for an invasion? Are people writing Moscow to encourage it? Where are the op eds and TV tours?
Wail on that strawman! Beat it for all yer worth, that will carry the day!
IronGate
(2,186 posts)just read his posts on this issue.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)And that is just flat granting what you are saying without bothering to see what molehill has been stretched into a mountain there too.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #47)
IronGate This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)in Iraq either. Send all the tents, food, water, and medicine that can help the people if that is your mission and I won't complain a bit but I doubt that is what you have in mind.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)It was another_liberal that said that.
I'll go ahead and delete the post.
Sorry about that.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Show me the post where I said such a thing.
You made the accusation, big shot, now back it up. And don't give me some rationalized bull either, show me where I said what you claim I did.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)crossing into Ukraine with out Ukrainian permission, that's an invasion by Russia.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Since when is being glad that relief supplies of food and water reached people suffering hunger and thirst the same as, "Supporting invasion of sovereign territory?"
Lets get real already, show me text where I said that I support an invasion or withdraw your accusation.
IronGate
(2,186 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)That is: I supported an invasion of a sovereign nation where? In what post I wrote here did that happen?
IronGate
(2,186 posts)permission, ergo, you supported a Russian invasion/incursion of sovereign Ukraine territory.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I think we both know very well what an invasion really is.
What the Russian Federation did with that relief convoy might reasonably suggest they should pay a fine for breaking import regulations, but it certainly does not warrant a declaration of war.
You know I'm right, don't you?
IronGate
(2,186 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 23, 2014, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)
that's an invasion/incursion in any language, the fact that you don't want to admit it speaks volumes about where you stand.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)was going to invade Syria.
They were very very angry about it ... and they were wrong.
They'll act exactly the same way this time. Absolutely sure we're going to invade. Then we won't. And they'll be just as angry anyway.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)
99Forever
(14,524 posts)We'll do it so much differently this go around...
... 'cuz this time it will work.
How, you might ask?
'Cuz we say so.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)"Now the White House is considering seeking domestic approval for military action and a mandate from Congress would do just fine, a senior administration official told the Washington Post."
I would throw a few grains of salt on this remembering how the corporate media always lusts for war, it lines their coffers with holy cash.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I wonder why they don't just fire the current editor and hire someone who can write like you suggest? Now, that's how to sell newspapers!
LloydS of New London
(355 posts)
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)"I'm gonna' hate me some Russians all day long!"
(sigh)
IronGate
(2,186 posts)one who wholeheartedly supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but condemns the possible use of the US military to halt the murderous rampage of ISIS.
Kinda makes you a hypocrite.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)It's a movie about prejudice and senseless bias. Here's a link (pay particular attention to the confrontation between the White Power guy and his Black coworker in the prison laundry):
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=american+history+x+full+movie
IronGate
(2,186 posts)another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I have paraphrased the dialogue, but surely you recognize it now?
My use of it here was, of course, satirical in intent.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)
valerief
(53,235 posts)I'm sure they'll keep the job market empty and job seekers over-populated so they get their cannon fodder for their W$$$A$$$R.
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)of a Draft...
If ISIS is as bad as they say, and I have no reason not to believe Hagel, we are going to need a larger military.
And so many of our men are just plain tired.....
Something about the Draft - it brings men and women into a situation they want nothing to do with, and they fight like hell to get it over with so they could go home and get a new car....
That's how WWII got itself ended....unwilling participants who had better things to do at home....bless them!
BaggersRDumb
(186 posts)And I hate war, hate W and cheney for starting the war, but what does Obama do, ignore ISIL?
Think about who they are now..
I want to know what you would do, among DU members, as opposed to what Obama is doing?
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)The bill for thousands and thousands of kill-crazy, mercenary, Blackwater type "Private Contractors." This is not going to be a popular war with the millennial generation.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)The military doesn't want it, Congress won't vote for it and the public won't support anyone who does. (aside of course a select few from both parties who will stay in the seat until they die or choose to retire)
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)And, it goes without saying, you and I will be getting the bill.
Lurks Often
(5,455 posts)or reduce our role in the world, which isn't likely.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)I can dream, though, can't I?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Works every time.
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. H.L. Mencken
TheKentuckian
(26,314 posts)the next one. Add in a dose of "this time it is different", sprinkle in some "___ is President now, ___ is no longer going to be mismanaging our forces" and a dash of "interests in harm's way" and it not only works every time but might become more likely with each attempt.
Same line of crap since and including fucking Korea but add in a level of incompetence compounded by some serious failure to comprehend a culture that has never been seen at once and you have what should rightfully be a severe confidence crisis but amazingly does not and you have again with no exit conditions and we are stuck with dangerously stupid.
We have nothing but bombed ourselves into deeper dire straits for over a decade. Maybe we need to step back and recalibrate?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Intervene, destabilize, CRISIS, intervene, destabilize, CRISIS, intervene....
And the weeping bury their children, and the profiteers polish their yachts.
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)If past is prologue seeking congressional approval is Obama's way of telling Cameron, Cheney, and assorted neocons to go jump in a lake. We've seen this movie before and it just isn't going to happen.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)However, one thing the Republicans always seem ready to vote for is a new, hugely expensive war (more than a few Democrats as well).
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)and Cameron snuck off stage and left Obama holding the bag. It looked like we'd been outfoxed by the Brits, as Obama had already gone on TV to rattle the saber, but then he went on TV again to report that the House had done what they can't stop themselves from doing, which is vote against anything he proposes, and the Syria war was off. Two can play at that game in other words.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Here's hoping you are right.
GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)
rock
(13,218 posts)Are we gonna get different results this time? Really?