General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsISIS "tremendously well-funded". By whom? ...and why aren't we choking the funds off and prosecuting
the funders?
The ISIS money has to hit the banks at some point, in this day and age tracking hundreds of millions should not be all that difficult (considering the NSA knows what porn you watch http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/11/nsa-sexint-abuse-you%E2%80%99ve-all-been-waiting).
This would be a far more cost effective method of fighting them than wasting more blood and treasure in the desert (which, of course, will never work as the war has been going on there since antiquity)
Follow the money.... why is this so difficult? Perhaps because at least some of it leads back to Mcain, Graham, and Prince Bandar (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/)
"They're incredible fighters. ISIS teams in many places use special operations TTPs," said the second official, who has considerable combat experience, using the military term for "tactics, techniques and procedures."
In sobering press conference Friday, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said ISIS has shown that it is as sophisticated and well-funded as any group that we have seen.
Theyre beyond just a terrorist group. They marry ideology, a sophistication of strategic and tactical military prowess. They are tremendously well-funded, he said. This is beyond anything that weve seen.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/isis-incredible-fighting-force-us-special-ops-sources/story?id=25116463
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)So there's that.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Ransom payments for kidnap victims, crimes like extortion and robbery and, lately, oil sales are believed to have brought in hundreds of millions of dollars for ISIS during its two-year reign of terror, U.S. intelligence officials tell NBC News. But the group is burning through money nearly as quickly, fighting a two-front war in Syria and Iraq and trying to govern the self-declared caliphate it has established, they say.
The Islamic terror groups annual revenues are now at least comparable to the funding that al Qaeda had available during its heyday in the late 1990s and early 2000s, when U.S. intelligence estimated it was bringing in $25 million to $30 million a year, according to one official. And it may be that ISISs financial resources go well beyond those of Osama bin Ladens organization at the time, the official said.
Ransom payments are one of ISISs major sources of income, with tens of millions of dollars paid by some European governments and wealthy relatives of the kidnap victims over the past two years. The low end of the estimate range is "well above $25 million," according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
In addition to collecting ransom, ISIS feeds its ravenous hunger for cash primarily through extortion and oil smuggling, said the official.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)pinto
(106,886 posts)Probably much of it done in cash transactions. Hard to trace and shutdown. I agree, though. Blocking the funding of ISIS, as much as possible, would be a good move.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Clyde Tenson
(65 posts)Wasn't it a billion as in B billion of Washington's that disappeared unaccounted for in Iraq? Honestly they're playing the American people for fools. And Hagel and Kerry are swallowing hook line and sinker. C'mon...nifty black uniforms and skull & crossbone flags, (they've got the branding thing down) not to mention all the shiny new white Toyota pick-up trucks all in a row. If the people in the region are content to let these fake jihadists run roughshod all over hell, let them have it. For Christ's sake let's get the fuck off fossil fuel and do what the Germans are doing - ALTERNATE FUCKING ENERGY! Ladies and gentlemen, this is a SCAM. It's either a plan to suck us back in and drain what's left of our treasure. Or it's more wealth distribution from the American taxpayer to the military industrial complex. Take your pick.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Not ISIS. Those funds predate the rise of ISIS' influence and operational capabilities. The money was likely stolen by the established Iraqi government at the time, imo. Chalabi et al probably have some idea where it all is.
As far as the rest, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Seems you imply some sort of conspiracy or collusion but it's unclear.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Last edited Tue Aug 26, 2014, 05:12 AM - Edit history (1)
Of course, the fact that it is probably some sort scam by one or another player in the ME -- most likely the Saudis, but maybe with the help of Turkey (wants to weaken the Kurds), does not make it less dangerous.
I can't believe that the US did not know about this long ago. I remember discussions with someone on DU about whether we should support the rebels in Syria. I didn't think it was a good idea then because we don't really know who we would be supporting. Remember how we supported the Taliban in Afghanistan. This bunch is a scam even worse than that. We would have gotten involved with them and then suddenly realized how crazy they are.
I hope Obama really stayed away from them.
But our government lies so much no matter who is president that we probably know very little about what is really going on.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar eg, have a vested interest in keeping OUR military engaged in the ME.
I agree with you that this is a scam. We went through it back in the early 2000s and the script, the 'costumes', the 'staging' is identical. We didn't buy it then, the Left I mean, not sure why anyone should buy it now.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)The whole thing reeks
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)we have such short memories they don't even have to make much of an effort, just recycle the old, 'propaganda' and off we go to war again.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)That plus $$$$. Who provides that? Is it really to that degree or the numbers a 'number' being done on us again?
And it all connects back to the Syrian mess and the war hawks are shouting about ramping it all up.
And then what- even more austerity pushed down all our throats to pay for it.
Reeks big time.
librechik
(30,673 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)I remain unconvinced of that.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)This whole "bad-ass ME Boogie Men going to come and get you" meme is so transparently bogus, I have a hard time taking any of it very seriously anymore.
The War on Terror gets ginned-up (AQ, ISIS, et' al.) to keep the Military-Industrialist's pockets continually stuffed with billion$ of dollar$ of US Taxpayer's money, hand over fist, ad nauseum.
I don't know how this could be more obvious?
SalviaBlue
(2,914 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)But ask yourself this: Do they have missiles, an air force, a navy, any way to get here from where they are, a well-trained and -supplied intelligence service? No on all counts.
There is no doubt that were all of these Dark Ages pinheads to be immolated the world would be an infinitely better place. But they are just a boogeyman and nothing more.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Since the NSA can arrive at your door simply by tracking your ISP, makes you wonder how all these 'terror' websites are not just as easily traceable doesn't it?
The 'staging' and 'production' of these latest videos is identical almost to the old AQ productions. Wonder where all those flags are made?
iandhr
(6,852 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)I think Riyadh and the Saudi "royal" family would be the first place I would look for their outside sources of funds. Now why did I think of that?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Golly, I wonder why they are so well funded.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 25, 2014, 07:07 PM - Edit history (1)
Instead, ISIS looted the banks in Mosul.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/06/12/isis-just-stole-425-million-and-became-the-worlds-richest-terrorist-group/
It should be noted some claim it never happened....and then if you actually read their stories, you find Iraqi bankers will not confirm the story, as opposed to denying the story.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)"Why do you rob banks, Mr. Sutton?"
"Because that's where the money is."
GOLGO 13
(1,681 posts)That is also oil rich? Nope no possible suspects that I can think of.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)2/3 of their current on-hand cash, plus a butt-load of gold bullion was stolen from northern Iraq during their initial offensive in June.
Javaman
(62,497 posts)manufacturers need a new cause to make their bucket loads of money.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)money goes, it might answer that question.
No Vested Interest
(5,163 posts)pnwmom
(108,952 posts)Many other countries do.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/multiple-kidnappings-for-ransom-funding-isis-source-says/
Much of the funding for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) is coming from extortion and "multiple kidnappings for ransom," a counterterrorism source told CBS News.
The kidnappings are primarily from citizens of European countries, including employees of corporations who quietly pay the ransom demands to get their people back, the source told CBS News senior investigative producer Pat Milton. Recently a Scandinavian corporation paid $70,000 for the return of a kidnapped employee, Milton reports.
SNIP
A U.S. official told the Associated Press that the ISIS militants who beheaded Foley had demanded 100 million Euros (about $132.5 million) in ransom for his release. A second U.S. official told The AP that the demands were sent in emails to Foley's family in New Hampshire. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the ransom demands by name.
ISIS has taken a page out of the al Qaeda game book to use ransom as a source of revenue, the source told Milton. However, ISIS differs from al Qaeda in that the group has in some ways developed a "hybrid form of funding" that is both global and local, according to CBS News Senior National Security Analyst Juan Zarate.
ancianita
(35,925 posts)End dark economy structures and we can better follow the bankers who work for the players.
Too many "legitimate" economy bag men in suits and military uniforms benefit from keeping dark economies out of the public eye to snitch on their benefactors.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Though I am certain the Saudis are involved as well. It's what they do.
ancianita
(35,925 posts)with no reference to our own.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)because one or more of string-pullers of the funders may be person(s) very surprising. I think the entire IS movement is somewhat of a sham. One that came about very conveniently for the neocons who still want to fulfill Brzezinski checkerboard strategy. And the US electorates repulsion of the Syria invasion blocked that fulfillment. Then, walla, suddenly ISIL of the mainly names appears. Follow the money.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)our friends. It gets better. It seems John MCCain, America's unappointed ambassador at large asked our friends to fund them since the big meanies in our government wouldn't give them money to take down Assad of Syria and maybe Malaki of Iraq (now gone).
world wide wally
(21,734 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)mconnors
(19 posts)I was thinking last night how to deal with ISIS
Thinking about getting a hold of Saturday night Live and the idea would be to make fun of them!
I sissy group all men hate women see where I'm going, priding around in drapes because they feel sexy do not need ladies when they have all these beautiful men around. Just make up stuff on their weaknesses, sure it will piss them off, if they have to spend time defending themselves it would be a good start.
Many years ago a had a couple of gay guys work for me, very funny guys had a blast everyday, one of my employees husband hated gays and it was so easy to pick on him. He would say I should kick your ass for hiring these guy guys, and all I would have to say to get him running out the door would be, you are always talking about my ass, why is that!
Would probably not work, it would be fun though! Maybe help slow down the recruiting, we all know if you say enough times people will believe it!
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Trained by the US Special Forces and funded by the Saudis.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 25, 2014, 10:37 PM - Edit history (1)
ISIS is the Al Quada for a new generation.
The Al Quada fear card was played out and the MIC needs a new influx of cash.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)I couldn't figure out. Even Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as head of IS, I got figured out because of his contacts at Camp Buca. But I couldn't figure out the training. I have to take a break and ponder that one. See ya later. Good call.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)They control seven oil fields and two working refineries. This is in the north. If they take the south of Iraq, their ability to produce oil expands exponentially. They have no problem selling it because they do so at black market prices, which is about half the going rate.
I believe they robbed a bank in Mosul for around a half billion too.
ISIS has proven itself insatiably oil thirsty.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)not to mention oil tankers and transportation equipment.
This is big money - very wealthy people are involved... who are they?
ancianita
(35,925 posts)quaker bill
(8,223 posts)that produce about $10 million a day in crude. They have also captured a working refinery...
There is no magic here.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)banks. Explain how a 'terror org' which just recently appeared on the scene, is running these oil fields? Who are they selling the oil to, eg?? Got any links to how how they force those buying this oil to pay in CASH? Billions in CASH? That makes NO SENSE, unless of course the Saudis are helping, or Bahrain.
I keep seeing 'they took over the oil fields' but WHEN, and did NO ONE NOTICE?
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)quaker bill
(8,223 posts)Reportedly they are selling to Assad and others locally. I have no proof, I just listen to NPR and BBC, but it makes sense. You can imagine that all "banks" are traceable if you care to. No one reputable I have heard has said "billions". The reports I have hear say 100,000 barrels a day in production, at $100 a barrel that comes to $10 million a day. Defining this as "legitimate business" I am afraid severely underestimates the ME business climate. They could be having to sell at a discount, regardless it is still a bunch of money.
They apparently seized a bunch of US weapons tech when the Iraqi army "evaporated" from bases. So there is apparently a whole bunch of stuff they got free....
I think if they have the oil and you want it, you pay in whatever form they accept. No "force" is required. You pay and you get, you don't pay and someone else gets....
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the 'handing over of Iraq to Maliki's govt guaranteed control of over 80% of those oil fields to Global Oil Corporations. The Iraqi PEOPLE did not want this, WE were not aware of it until Kucinich revealed that 'secret clause' to the public.
Now, you're telling me that a bunch of so-called terrorists managed to take control, the operation, the finances of those much coveted Oil Fields and NO ONE knew this until these rumors start spreading? The entire Iraq War was ABOUT those oil fields in case anyone forgot.
And what do you mean by 'reportedly' they are selling to Assad? That would not be enough to begin with, those oil fields supplied MANY countries around the world.
I have seen NOTHING credible to support this 'theory' at all. Do you seriously think the US would leave what they WENT there to get, to a bunch of rag tag terrorists?
No, that is NOT where they are getting their funding. Have you read PBS's interview with one of them, where he explains where they were 'trained' and by whom? Where they got those theatrical 'uniforms', where those training tapes came from?
We learned long ago that nothing is as it seems when it comes to our Foreign Wars. Anyone who believes these impossible theories must not have been around back in 2003 and beyond.
quaker bill
(8,223 posts)are not the people on the ground in real time with guns. The people paid to defend the actual facilities on the ground by perhaps the "Global Oil Corporations" apparently lost an old style military conflict. Some of them died on the scene and many apparently fled.
Were they trained? sure. Was Bin Laden trained? (yes we did it) Are there state actors or other wealthy actors in the ME that want an end to Assad for reasons both known and unknown? sure. Are there state actors and other wealthy actors in the ME that want an end to Maliki? sure.
The US left in 2011. What we left things to was a fairly well armed regime we installed. It did not share power and was quickly opposed by a faction that allied with those working to overthrow Assad next door. The only thing credible about anything there is that we went in with many plans, and predictably none of them worked, Most of the plans produced far worse results than doing nothing at all. But then many of us predicted that.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)The US govt sanctioned them? They freely cross the borders between Turkey and Jordan to join the fight in Syria and we turn a blind eye because they are fighting for our cause in Syria.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/syria-arming-the-rebels/
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] They asked for a group of 80 or 90 fighters from our command, and we headed towards the Turkish border.
NARRATOR: Based on their accounts, we retraced their journey across the border into Turkey. After a 14-hour drive, they say they arrived in the Turkish capital of Ankara and were brought to a hotel. They were kept inside and questioned by Americans, who would only say they were from the military. But the rebels believed they were from the CIA.
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We met them for six to seven hours a day. It was medical examinations, questions for each person individually, like, When did you join the uprising? And What was your profession or military rank?
They had tracked our work and asked us to verify information about attacks we carried out, such as who was present and how many men were martyred. Your responses have to match the entire groups.
NARRATOR: A week later, the rebels say they were surprised by what happened next.
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We only found out where we were going to be trained on the last day in Ankara, when the Americans said goodbye and that, Tomorrow, well see you in Qatar.
NARRATOR: They were flown 1,500 miles away to Doha, the capital of Qatar, which is a key U.S. ally in the Persian Gulf.
REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We drove for about two, two-and-a-half hours to reach the training ground. It was close to the Saudi border. We didnt know where we were because it was desert all around.
NARRATOR: Over the course of three weeks, they say they were trained by Americans at a base in the desert guarded by Qatari soldiers. Like many of the rebels who were sent to Qatar, 21-year-old Hussein had never had any previous military training.
HUSSEIN: [through interpreter] They trained us to ambush regime or enemy vehicles and cut off the road. They also trained us on how to attack a vehicle, raid it, retrieve information or weapons and munitions, and how to finish off soldiers still alive after an ambush.
NARRATOR: The rebels were outfitted with brand-new uniforms and boots.
MUHAMMAD ALI: [subtitles] Those trousers are from them, right?
HUSSEIN: [subtitles] Yeah. We got these boots in training.
MUHAMMAD ALI: The Americans were warning the fighters not to tell this story at all. And even at one point, they told them, If in any case this story will be published, we will stop funding you or arming you.
NARRATOR: The CIA and the State Department declined to comment on the fighters accounts of arming and training, though the Obama administration has said it plans to step up support to the rebels, and there have been other reports the CIA is running covert training out of Jordan.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)And since they post all those 'training videos' online, how come no one has traced those websites? Isn't that what we are spending BILLIONS of tax dollars on, to 'fight terror'? Well, that's what we are told, but I keep seeing these video productions with scary, flag waving, uniformed 'terrorists with web addresses and our National Security agencies, which can spy on foreign leaders and people ordering pizza, can't find out who runs them???
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)For the last sixty years all you have to do to find the CIA is turn over the scummiest rock you can find. Voila! There they are, running guns and plotting away.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)everywhere but DU.
jamzrockz
(1,333 posts)is the only thing keeping the war going. The Syria Arab Army tanks were doing serious damage to the rebels until the US supplied them with TOWs, TOWs that I am sure is now in the hands of ISIS, the only true resistance force in Syria right now.
Its sad but the Iraq war plus the misguided proxy war in Syria has created the ISIS we see today. Terrorizing not just Syrians, but the Iraqis as well.
librechik
(30,673 posts)by trusted messengers.We can't just cut them off electronically.
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)Few here want to hear that.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)I'm sure a few cells of Al Qaeda functioned like that in the old days.
But you can't run a state and sell millions of dollars worth of oil like that.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)today's surveillance state.
CanonRay
(14,080 posts)gordianot
(15,232 posts)Questions they can ask to anyone speaking of the threat of the group variously known as ISIS, ISIL, or IS:
The Secretary of State says this group is well funded who are they? What is being done to freeze funds? Are war crimes being charged against those funding this group? Are there arrests planned could the Countries in which funding is sourced be held responsible? Have the funders been warned of consequences? Do the funders know that John and Lindsey are on their ass?
I nominate the all access guru, voice of the people, consummate journalist, Chuck Todd to get answers.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)gordianot
(15,232 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)I wondered why he didn't just "spit it out." By WHO? Why not say so in that Press Conference. Why didn't reporter ask him....
Initech
(100,027 posts)"You think this is about money? It's about sending a message. Everything burns!"