General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
TDale313
(7,822 posts)
PNW_Dem
(119 posts)More good work being done by Satanists (or perhaps atheists or maybe the ACLU):
Satanic Monument Being Built for Oklahoma’s Statehouse
edgineered
(2,101 posts)
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Honoring nature is a big one. Time for the new generation to start healing Mother Nature, since the previous ones have done so much to wound Her either deliberately or by neglect.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)It's me! The Evil Farces has dun turnt me inta a witch.
FarPoint
(14,766 posts)Most realistic concept.
Rex
(65,616 posts)falsely believe they worship Satan. Of course the people that think Wiccans are dangerous, are fundamentalist that are the true danger to most societies imo.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)because Wiccans are often theistic and many of them cast spells.
REP
(21,691 posts)Jesus, Holy Ghost, Satan, etc. Some worship other gods and goddesses, take silly names and do some attention-seeking - annoying, but not as bad as the equivalent bible-banger, since Wiccans don't seek to convert anyone.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)I've never seen or heard of a Wiccan going around trying to convert people. People are pretty diverse, so it's probably happened once or twice, but those would be rare exceptions.
REP
(21,691 posts)And some worship, for lack of a better word, different personifications of the natural world, sometimes using gods and goddesses from ancient religions to represent those aspects. Most Wiccans who use just the male/female are doing the same thing; not worshipping literal gods but 'stand ins' for aspects of the world. Of course, as with any religion/practice, there are always poseurs and annoying people, but again, I find the most butt-ignorant Wiccan infinitely preferable to say, people like my neighbors who kidnapped my chickens as an excuse to tell me I was going hell because I'm not a charismatic Baptist.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I've found trying to define core beliefs of Wicca as being about as nebulous as defining them for Congregationalists though. Every group has the total authority to define the structure of their beliefs and practices for their own group. That's the nature of non-hierarchical faiths, especially where there is no collective body or synod.
So, trying to convert others is against the rules...unless your group has decided to proselytize and attempt to convert people. Even if that pisses off other Wicca or runs contrary to what they deem the rules to be. (I've known such Wiccans when I lived in DC...and poser would have been a good descriptor. The sort of people raised as evangelicals and rebelling against their parents by jumping from being militantly Christian to being militantly spiritual and non-Christian.)
Vine Gatherer
(94 posts)What's wrong with that? Beats the heck out of Christian goosestepping!
Chan790
(20,176 posts)it just means there really are and can be no/exceedingly-few universal hard-and-fast rules in a non-hierarchical faith. It's largely impossible to make universal statements like "converting others is against the rules."
lisby
(408 posts)As one, I'd like to tell you that paganism--which is a better term than Wiccans when you are talking about today's movement--worship or believe in any gods they choose. Or none at all. We adopt whatever parts of other spiritual paths that appeal to us and from other traditional religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Norse Mythology, Greek Mythology, Voodoo, or Native American shamanism, or atheism. We are not Satanists. We do not believe in Hell or the inability of any soul to redeem itself. We work only positive "magic," which is no different than praying or positive thinking or the focused deliverance of energy in a meditative state.
We all agree that the goal is to harm a few living entities as possible, to cherish the Earth, to cherish each other, and to walk a path of peace.
We are also one of the most accepting communities imaginable for all races, all sexualities, all shapes and sizes, all physical handicaps, and more.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)The Wiccans I know identify as Wiccans. Maybe that is a Montana thing.
That has been my observation too. Though online, Satanists are usually the nicest people I talk to.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)It is common at neo-pagan festival to see Thelemics, Wiccans, Druids, Discordians, Shamanistic people of many varying traditions, Buddhists, and many many others. People are constantly reinventing personal practices that incorporate several different traditions or creating new ones that didn't exist even ten years ago.
I believe you are correct however regarding Wicca as a subset of the neo-pagan movement, the two largest branches, Alexandrian and Gardnerian (they are at least in my area) most assuredly do incorporate Both God and Goddess (I know more about these two traditions as I hold second degrees in both).
There are many other Wiccan branches, but even most of the Dianic witches I know include the horned God as well as the Goddess, but focuses largely on the triple moon Goddess.
Celtic Wicca I find very interesting as it includes so much within it, often the teachings of Gardner as well as Valiente and in many cases Thelemic teachings including the Quabala. To know more about the differing branches of Wicca (and there are many even in this subset of neo-paganism) here is a good link and a good site in general.
http://www.wiccantogether.com/forum/topics/the-different-branches-of
FarrenH
(768 posts)or at least Abrahamic religionists, so clearly they can't be Wiccans. I exclude postmodern atheist Satanists, like LaVey, et al, of course.
You have to believe Abrahamic mythology to be a theistic Satanist.
South Africa still has an "occult crimes unit", a hangover from the Calvinist culture of Apartheid, which is amusing. One of the things that struck me in one of their reports on "occult related crimes" (like claimed human and animal sacrifice) was the massive over-representation of small towns in the heartland of Calvinist conservatism. IOW, a strong signal that stereotypical religious Satanists are Christians that "switched sides". IOW the conventional religiosity of a region strongly predicts the number of Satanists.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Thanks! I had no idea Satanism was still alive and well in other parts of the world.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Many of them are Ayn Rand followers who enjoy ceremonial theatrics.
"I exclude postmodern atheist Satanists, like LaVey, et al, of course."
Really just talking about "real" Satanists, rather than people appropriating the term as a stand-in for libertarianism.
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)and this happened here a few years ago, but she lost. They did get rid of 50 Shades.
Laura Mallory has three children who attend J.C. Magill Elementary School in Loganville, Georgia. She is asking the school board to remove the popular series from libraries in the state's largest school system.
Gwinnett County Associate Superintendent Cindy Loe told board members Thursday that a hearing on Mallory's request will take place April 20th.
The mother of four says she has not read any of the Potter books in their entirety, but she says she has read portions of the books, which she says glorify witchcraft.
http://www.wistv.com/story/4770033/georgia-woman-wants-harry-potter-books-removed-from-schools
dougolat
(716 posts)
shenmue
(38,598 posts)And...
(cue scary music)
nothing happened. 
Treant
(1,968 posts)(cue scary music)
We had a very nice lunch and a good conversation.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)(cue scary music)
and was tasked with invoking the god of fire, using magician's flash paper.
(cue louder scary music)
And once lit, the paper fluttered out of my hand towards the ground.
(pump up really scary music)
and burned out just before it touched. 
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)If so the guardians are there to protect the circle and are not gods, they are of the elements but not elementals. It is part of creating a protected sacred space. There are four of them, one for each direction and each associated with a different element.
At least the way I was taught, can't speak for the entirety of a very diverse group.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)but don't really remember, as this was in the mid-'80s and, like every other religion, I didn't stick with it.
the_sly_pig
(752 posts)Dah Dah Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh (organ music)
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Mom and Dad were doing the nasty. My birthday is in early August. You figure it out. 
If I'm doing it right.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)but neither was interested.
JEB
(4,748 posts)DhhD
(4,695 posts)Parts are very long and may and/or some parts of the history may not be sourced by foot notes. Just read a little if possible.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bloodlines/index.htm#menu
The DuPont Bloodline was a good study in pseudo-history.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)I'll bet that you didn't know that "hocus pocus," the most famous magic incantation for transforming something into something else, is derived from the Latin Mass, where the priest transforms bred into the actual body of Jesus Christ; by repating in Latin, the presumed words of Christ at the last supper.
HOC EST ENIM CORPUS MEUM = This is my body.
Hocus Pocus 
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Isn't the whole communion wafer thing a substitution/token magic way for preforming spirit/ability absorption via cannibalism?
Kinda looks like that from the outside.
bvf
(6,604 posts)I'm no scholar on the subject but I do remember hearing that the early Christian church established holy days to roughly coincide with natural (naturist?) events like the onsets of the seasons in order to win over pagans.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)Jesus Christ is called "the lamb of God." This refers back to the old Hebrew tradition of sacrificing a pure unblemished lamb, and spilling its blood on the altar of God to atone for sins. Also once a year, a goat that was captured for sacrifice was released back to freedom. It was the scape (escaped) goat. So the year's sins and Hebraic law-breaking was paid for by the blood of the lamb.
Many old religions had lots of symbolic rituals about blood and blood sacrifices.
Note: I'm a Buddhist, not a Christian.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Human sacrifice was outlawed early into Abraham's time.
There were certain animals/items sacrificed for specific reasons; ie Red Heifers, adult rams, doves, lambs, grains, wine.
The red heifer was used to scantily temple constructions, after the sacrificial ceremony the remains were burned and the ashes mixed with previous red heifer sacrifices and part of that used as part of the laying of the corner stone. So before a third temple might be constructed, the lost ashes from the previous two sacrifices have to be found. Several other objects have to be found before a Jewish Temple can even be considered.
All that is in addition to the fact the only place on earth where said temple might even be constructed is currently occupied.
johnp3907
(4,312 posts)
tblue37
(68,436 posts)
kairos12
(13,593 posts)
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts) kairos12
(13,593 posts)Chellee
(2,300 posts)
defacto7
(14,162 posts)but just can't do it.
Chellee
(2,300 posts)
grrrr!
Chellee
(2,300 posts)At this point it's laying at the bottom of a deep Kravitz.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts) pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Claraly there's just no way those two will ever work together.
imthevicar
(811 posts)Been for centuries trying to Burn or hang Witches. Can't have them stopping wars. Saving the Environment. Healing those whom Their god has intended death. Have animals for anything but to eat. Lacking Hope only in the Leadership (Church or otherwise). Besides Other races than your own are for nothing but to exploit. As an Atheist, My support goes with the Wiccians!
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)but I still have Wiccan beliefs.
unionthug777
(740 posts)that witches are made of wood......and float !!! 
witchcraftery
jmowreader
(53,194 posts)unionthug777
(740 posts) toby jo
(1,269 posts)I've always held that there would have been much more world peace had we come across the pond with our natural shamanic traditions intact instead of with the Abhramic traditions shoved off on us. For starters, we would have had a lot in common with Native Americans.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)
Tribalceltic
(1,000 posts)
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)"Charlemagne waged a bloody, three-decades-long series of battles against the Saxons, a Germanic tribe of pagan worshippers, and earned a reputation for ruthlessness. In 782 at the Massacre of Verden, Charlemagne reportedly ordered the slaughter of some 4,500 Saxons. He eventually forced the Saxons to convert to Christianity, and declared that anyone who didn’t get baptized or follow other Christian traditions be put to death." http://www.history.com/topics/charlemagne
vlyons
(10,252 posts)at the 1st Council of Nicea. Out of that conference came the belief in the Trinity, Sunday, the date to set Easter every year, Canon law to rule the empire (which was basically Roman pagan law). Anyone who didn't get on board, was ruled a heretic and exiled or murdered. Jesus Christ was an invention of St. Paul.
Anyway, it's a long story ...
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)that the love thy neighbor shit could go too far.
shenmue
(38,598 posts)[URL=
.html][IMG]
[/IMG][/URL]
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)
defacto7
(14,162 posts)or if you don't please.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)
Wolf Frankula
(3,835 posts)That pussums looks very much like Bowtie, one of our cats.
Wolf
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)
silverweb
(16,410 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]While I studied Wicca for some time a number of years ago, the pageantry, costumes, and rituals actually detracted from it for me and I drifted away from practice.
However, I never gave up most of the core ideas and still celebrate our connection with Nature's cycles in my own low-key way. Now I'm what I call a blenderized spiritual pantheist/wiccan/buddhist.
This beautiful song really speaks to me -- and I'm actually feeling a bit of an urge to dig out my old cloak! 
Thanks so much for posting!
longship
(40,416 posts)Or, horrors upon horrors, all those vampire novels. Because, everybody knows, fantasy fiction is actually real!!!! Don't get me started about Dungeons and Dragons!
DUN-DUN-DUNNNN!
<== of course!
raven mad
(4,940 posts)I certainly hope so - and hope my grandkids will be as well!
Thanks for the smile, KamaAina. What a menacing-looking bunch!
PatrickforO
(15,426 posts)Dangerous and subversive.
Because, after all, tolerance, empathy and generosity go totally against the precepts of American capitalism.
Burn 'em up!
Or better yet, let's have a purge! That is the GOP plan for the poor, weak and homeless, after all. Seen the movie?
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)My children are not made of wood. I am sure because each weighs more than a duck.
OTH every Wiccan I have met/know lives a well balanced life with very little stress.
rickyhall
(5,509 posts)Sorta like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Oh that's right, that shaman, Jesus said that.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Love is the Law, Love under Will.
Love and compassion must be the Foundation of Will.
Wiccan Rede Doreen Valiente (Gardner put it somewhat differently, but the same essential meaning)
An it harm none, do what ye will."
'Love, and do what you will." by Saint Augustine of Hippo 1600 years ago is remarkably similar.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)if more people practiced this, regardless of what faith they attached it to.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Thelemic, Wiccan, and Christian. I don't think however that it requires faith or religion for one to practice personally, it is really just common sense to me.
People like their rituals, their commandments, their redes, and their beliefs so it makes a fine inclusion in any religion but the religion part is not really necessary to respect the freedom of others while realizing that we should not harm one another.
It is a small planet after all and nearly all of our problems and most of our deepest sorrows are caused by other humans harming us or trying to stop us from being free to do what makes us happy even tho harmless to them. If all of humanity realized such a simple truth perhaps we could begin to work together to solve the extinction level threats looming just over the horizon.
A guy can dream can't he?
It's a universal truth that fits everywhere.
It doesn't require a religion, but I like it to be included, and wish it would be a primary focus, for those who need the structure religion gives them.
It also operates quite well without any religious attachments.
I'll dream along with you.
livefreest
(379 posts)
tclambert
(11,193 posts)Toe of frog? Wool of bat? Tongue of dog?
Veilex
(1,555 posts)nikto
(3,284 posts)You know, the side that wants war, lots of poverty, is white-supremacist and
thinks big bank$ and Corporations should run the world.
You know---American Fundamentalist xtians.
Jesus' Chosen People.
tazkcmo
(7,419 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)The Unitarian-Universalist Church. The denomination has a group for pagans called CUUPS.
And nothing happened.
Vine Gatherer
(94 posts)Next these Commies will want to reduce global warming!!!!! 
Marr
(20,317 posts)It's no less ridiculous than Christianity, Islam, Judaism, or any of the others.
But I hear (and read) a lot of comments from my fellow atheists that speak so passively about Wicca and it seems almost condescending. Like it's just some silly little hobby, practiced by a tiny collection of outsiders, so what's the harm.
gtar100
(4,192 posts)And I don't think it's the mission of atheists to try to convert everyone to their beliefs either. At least I hope not. That would put them on par with fundamentalist Christians and Muslims who insist everyone believe as they do and are intolerant of people who don't.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)1. No proselytizing, no converting.
2. All about free will, with the only rule being "harm none." Think about that. Regardless of what trappings you wrap it in, that makes the world a better place.
3. Underneath all of the religious trappings, it's operating on potential science. Manipulation of energy. Not physical energy, but energy none-the-less. Unlike some faiths, pagans generally understand that their rituals are enacted for just that: energy. A Wiccan teacher once told me that the gods and goddesses they interact with are just facets of the creative energy that drives existence, and that people give them names and personalities, not because they are literal "gods," but because it makes it easier to focus on that part of that energy. It's not about praying to a mystical daddy to "fix" things.
Condescending or not, I think many atheists can see that Wicca, and other pagan faiths, do not impede science or economic and social justice. It's easier to tolerate those you don't agree with if you can see that they aren't causing harm.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Especially as I view the raising and use of energy exactly as the Wiccan teacher you mention does.
I also think that the non proselytizing and the harm none ethic creates more friends than enemies, all those that hate my Wiccan trappings do so simply because they are taught to hate and fear me, not for anything I have done or tried to do to them, interestingly, I have never had an atheist feel any need to be counted among such haters. Fundamentalist Christians on the other hand...
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Creating more friends than enemies...what we should all strive for.
I find that our mainstream culture often works against that, setting us up to expect conflict and opposition, to be prepared with "talking points" and the "fight and win" mentality that, most of the time, doesn't really result in a "win" for anyone in the long run.
I sometimes get caught in that loop, and have to breathe and step back and breathe some more to realize that I've stepped off the path. I'm probably not alone. The more constructive, respectful, productive conversations I am part of, the better I do with the rest.
And that all fits, doesn't it?
JohnnyRingo
(20,872 posts)
yuiyoshida
(45,416 posts)That was quite popular around the country .. called Magical Blend...
I just volunteered for a few weeks doing odds and ends around their office when they were here in downtown San Francisco. The thing was, I noticed we managed to get our share of FUNDY Hate mail. Often their editors for fun would sit around reading them out loud and laugh, even though some of them seemed very threatening. Their thoughts were to go to the inner room, where there were candles, crystals and such and sit and do a healing prayer out loud with lots of imagery going out into the world. It seemed to clear their mind, as they burned sage in an ash tray, .. (Someone mentioned this was a Native American technique for clearing away negative vibes and such..)
I never could understand why people outside thought that it was wicked and bad when all they were trying to do was bring a little positive energy into people's lives. Years later I heard that the magazine had moved to Chico, California where they continued to publish for a little while longer. Eventually they went out of business.. But it was a fun thing to do and I enjoyed it..
But I still shake my head when I think of the Fundamentalist Christians head exploding each time a new issue came out.. The hate letters and vitriol was totally amazing.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)as it's been an active part of our household all his life, but we're leaving his religious convictions to his own choice later.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)[url=http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php][img]
[/img][/url]
Hestia
(3,818 posts)The guy in the bottom right picture (on the left) was vastly irritated that his pic was used in that horrible "church's" warning sign pic - so he decided to reword it correctly.
Love it, love it, love it
alterfurz
(2,681 posts)...it's good enough for me!
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)it's good enough for me!
alterfurz
(2,681 posts)...vote AynRandPaulRyan '16!
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Those "Christians" are into some really weird superstitions. Such mystical beliefs can be quite harmful.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Of any kind.
Period.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)"magic" until the underlying scientific principles are understood. Really, there is "science" and "science that we don't know yet."
Underneath all the religious trappings, the "magic" of pagans is energy manipulation...which is science that is not yet understood and explained, but beginning to be investigated.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Excellent reply.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)"Science has always been "magic" until the underlying scientific principles are understood."
Well, duh! That's SCIENCE.... Because the "magic" explanation was WRONG and BUNK. No adult should fall for it in this day and age.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)given all the full moon and sabbat circles I've had her to over the years, not to mention the private family rituals we've held, the books around the house that she is welcomed to read (and has) and the lessons I've given her since we adopted her almost 11 years ago now.