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The minimum wage debate is proof that Republicans have ultimately won.
When I was a growing up, minimum wage jobs were occupied by high school and college-age kids for the purpose earning some spending money, saving up for the next semester or developing basic job skills like showing up on time. They weren't designed to live on as an adult much less support a family. Yet here we are with politicians pledging to spend weeks on a minimum wage budgets. But what no one in office or the m$m will point out is the very fact that we are having this discussion is proof of how throughly vulture capitalists and their friends in the Republican Party (along with a few Democratic friends) have thoroughly pillaged the American economy, leaving adults to fight with teenagers over jobs that were designed to fund a Saturday night out.
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Skittles
(172,121 posts)the adults working in fast food could be working in factories or other jobs that got pimped offshore
knightmaar
(748 posts)Back in the day, a job working a cash register at a grocery store was a full time, with benefits job. Those positions were unionized and everything.
That and all those manufacturing jobs are gone now. What happens when you lose millions of good paying, "real" jobs and replace them with crap paying service industry jobs while at the same time increase college tuition 300%? Hmmmm....
Skittles
(172,121 posts)
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)although it seems hard to find historical data. The 1974 SAUS did not have any information about minimum wage.
Here's the best I could do from 1979-current.
The percentage of the workforce earning minimum wage has dropped, from a high of 15% in 1980 and as the minimum wage was NOT increased at all in Reagan's two terms the percentage fell to 5.1% by 1989.
After Clinton raised it a few time in his 2nd term, the percentage rose to 6.7% in 1997. Then Bush and the Republican congress did not raise it until Democrats won the House in 2006 so the percentage fell to 2.2% by 2006. Back up to 6% by 2009 and it has not been raised since, so the percentage has fallen to 4.3%.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2014/ted_20140403.htm
Most adults are still NOT working minimum wage jobs, but there is seemingly no data on the percent of the labor force making less than 140% of minimum wage. Since a 39% increase in the minimum wage would affect a lot of them too.
Chisox08
(1,898 posts)All of the economic gains of the poor and the middle class during the New Deal Era has just about been wiped out. Pay for the average worker has gone down since the 1908's. Free Trade agreements destroyed middle class jobs and the job market is so bad that you just about need a college degree to work at Walmart.
Unknown Beatle
(2,691 posts)NAFTA and repealing the Glass-Steagall Act.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I remember the famous Ross Perot vs Al Gore Crossfire segment. Wow, was Gore ever wrong about NAFTA.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... in fact I claim that while Reagan was the spiritual leader of the wrecking of the economy Clinton was the street thug who actually made it happen. The denial around here is pretty amazing.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)There were/still are LOTS of right-wing, neo-liberal politicians that salivate while they lobby for policies that only benefit the financial elite while wreaking havoc on the rest of America. ALL Republicans and far too many Democrats (conservative/Third Way) are part of the problem, and the problem is not going to begin to correct itself until that reality is widely recognized and a strong and LASTING movement is formed to counter it.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... Clinton, but he was supposed to be on our side. He wasn't.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)I wasn't intending to do that at all.
I simply believe that too many people don't realize the extent to which the entire system is currently corrupted. I strongly believe it will stay that way until a long-term movement focuses on building a progressive consensus. There is too much false hope currently which prevents any real progress to chart a new direction in this country.
I too have become very frustrated and very upset with "Democrats" furthering the neo-liberal agenda, but now that I realize the reality of the situation I no longer get angry about it. It definitely saddens me though, but I don't see any value in remaining angry any longer. Things will continue on the current course until more Americans snap out of their brainwashed haze and lobby for real change in this country.
Sorry if I upset you. We are on the same side.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... I agree with you. And it's funny, while I probably sound and am a bit bitter about the plight of America, I'm no longer worked up about it. Probably for a different reason than you, I have realized over the last year or two that Americans get treated this way because they basically deserve it. They deserve it because they put up with it with nary a protest, and continually vote for people who clearly do not have their interests in mind.
I'm old, financially set, as employed as I want to be and most of the issues that have skewed against most Americans don't effect me much at all. If they don't care, why should I? I'm really just an observer at this point, watching a group of people get fleeced by a bunch of grifters. It's more sad than anything else.
I've been saying that since 1978. For example, I live in Texas right now and any time I hear someone complain a bout Perry and the express sympathy for Texans I tell them not to. He was elected TWICE by the same people. They deserve every rotten thing that happens to them as a result. I moved from here after Bush was elected because Bush was elected. Only an extreme case of hardship has brought me back and as soon as I've recovered sufficiently, I will once again flee Texas.
sendero
(28,552 posts)I live in TX also, and don't really plan to leave. Have lived here for 50 years. I don't think Texas is unique, IMHO half the governors in the country as at least as bad as Perry. Maybe not as stupid, but as bad.
My comments apply to government at all levels. It's not there for your benefit except perhaps some local level gov't where the elected officials still have some real connection to their constituents.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)"Cult of personality."
But you would think that by now, people would have their eyes open.
But no, they still want to cheerlead for this or that person, despite the fact that the average American politician is simply a money launderer for the Big Corporations.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)We think that standing on the side of the road holding a piece of posterboard with a slogan on it is defying the system, challenging power, making a difference! Then we pack in once the bottled water runs out and go home to watch TV and feel like something was accomplished. if we're really daring, we'll bang a drum or something.
Funny thing is, out "counterparts" on the other side are just as inane and pointless in their protests as well... though, one wonders what the fuck they're even protesting, since they pretty much get whatever they want anyway
sendero
(28,552 posts)... sorta. I do think that serious protests like Ferguson can effect change. But not those as you have characterized.
When I say "protest", I most definitely am not referring to standing by the side of a road with a sign In my meaning, "protest" means doing something about it, which in our country is increasingly hard to do as the vote for tweedle dee or tweedle dum is hardly useful.
About the only thing I could see voting wise that might shake things up would be a serious anti-incumbent movement, but that is unlikely as while Congress has a single-digit approval rating everyone thinks THEIR congressperson is great. It's laughable.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I would expound on my earlier thoughts, but oh boy, the greatest sin on DU is being even midly critical of hippy culture in any respect whatsoever 
I don't particularly give a fuck - i'm a crusty old punk, after all... I just don't want to get bogged down with the feigned outrage posts.
So suffice it to say... yeah, there are different strains of protest, and some are more 'rel' than others. The real ones tend to come from people who are actually facing some shit, most often minority groups as we see in Ferguson, or as we are seeing with Idle No More campaigns in Canada and communities in the US.
The difference revolves around action. There's a difference between taking to the streets, and taking the streets. This doesn't mean violence - a frequent whiny excuse used by the... popular protest culture. It just means noncompliance with authority. Take your streets. Show your community's strength. Refuse to budge. And yeah - leave the kids with a sitter, because bad things could happen. They didn't turn dogs and hoses on people on accident then, and they don't bludgeon and gas people on accident today.
Assertion of the power and dominance of the public in a democratic system is what it's ultimately about. As you note, voting doesn't change much, because voting is an inheritance passive act. it's once every four to six years, you make some checks on paper and go away. it's less involved than getting a lotto card from the liquor store, and you're less likely to win something. You vote for people you think will listen to you, but for fuck's sake, you have to give them something to listen to. Pry their ears open if that's what it takes.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Will change due to Ferguson. I hope I am wrong. I remember the outrage over the school shootings and thought, "ok, we are going to see some Changes now" but alas, the main population when back to finding out what is going on on Breaking Bad. I believe we have already seen a big drop in awareness in the Ferguson story. As a whole, Americans have incredibly short memories or at least attention spans.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)Every one of them has bought into one version of "supply side" or another. They still purport that advantages for the rich will somehow translate to benefits for the poor. But why are there "the poor?" 
--imm
LiberalArkie
(19,857 posts)working people as beneath them. I was installing a small simple telephone system in an office area. I was all through with it and all the people working there were using it fine. The head of the operation came in and wanted to know what the button "HOLD" meant. I explained it to her and she was not satisfied. I tried again. She was not satisfied. I was at wits end. She tied into me saying that she had a masters in this and a phd in that and another masters in this and that she understood that I did not have the intellectual ability to explain simple things. She then wanted to know if she could get a manual for it written by someone with at least a grade school education. I had given her the manual for it. She was not satisfied by that. I never got upset but I apologized to her for not being very smart as my IQ was only 150 and only made 1500 on my SAT. I then left.
I had trained a kid that went to work for the computer place I worked. He working after school and was doing pretty good. He then went to college and came back during the summer. In his junior year he started with the "I don't expect you to understand this", and explain something that I taught him years earlier. He never got over that I might know something he didn't, because he now had a university education.
I lot of the educated liberals really look down on the working people. Clinton did, Gore did to certain extent. Hillary sure does. After all we are not their kind of people.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)They are faux-liberals.
The concept of equality is very strongly a part of liberal attitudes and philosophy. Those that don't embrace it are not really liberals. They might think they are, but underneath it all they simply are not.
Calling them out for their decidedly illiberal attitudes is important in these situations.
LiberalArkie
(19,857 posts)gave to the party. Always proud of the organizations they supported (all liberal). But in their heart 1% all the way. Being from the oil fields of south Arkansas, a lot of these Democrats were rich kids of really capitalistic parents. The party can not live without their money, but
Boreal
(725 posts)Somewhere along the line it became okay (among elitists) to look down upon anyone who isn't a "professional". Never mind that plumbers, carpenters, electricians, stone masons, and other trades ARE professions and a hell of lot more valuable to society than some academic or myriad other white collar professions. Worse, farmers (not big ag), because they're rural people, were derided as hicks living in "fly over country". I think this may have come about whenever it was that it was decided that collage degrees would be pushed (and universities began rolling in money) and those who did actual labor were no longer going to be valued. The more urban a population becomes, the worse this attitude gets. As a result, people in the trades are aging and not being replaced. I read some stats on that that were shocking. Something like the average plumber was in their late 50s. I would really like to see some elitist asshole fix their own plumbing, work on their own car, re-wire a house, and GROW THEIR OWN FOOD! We are going to be in a world of hurt when we suddenly find ourselves in a country full of young folks with worthless degrees (and huge debt) and completely unskilled labor. When I was kid, there were trade schools, apprenticeships, people working on cars in the driveway or backyard (remember that?!) and people learned to do these things that make society hum along and they were not looked down upon.
Anyway, that doesn't address the OP but I wanted to affirm what you said.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)I well remember that era.Because it was Clinton & Gore, two nice Democrats, I sorta supported NAFTA even though I couldn't quite figger out how it was supposed to help anybody but the rich. But, trust, ya know. They wouldn't lead us wrong, would they?
Other than welfare "reform" of course. We had already seen how that went with Toxic Tommy's W2 program in Wisconsin that Clinton stole.
Meanwhile all the people around me, like my wife & lots of other friends, were telling me I was an idiot. They were right, and were able to talk me out of my trust-based delusions fairly quickly.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)I always thought so, even though he ran with a D after his name, he was from a state who is totally conservative. You do know that many of those Dems in The South, are actually Cons in real life. Clinton was one of them. Now they want Hillary. People forget that she was a RepubliCON, when she worked for the Goldwater campaign.
There are very few real Dems left. They have all been bought off, as has the rest of our government.
Unknown Beatle
(2,691 posts)like she's going to be the democratic nominee for president. She has a swagger that I totally dislike.
CANDO
(2,068 posts)What you're pointing out. The swagger, the inevitability. People may be HRC true believers and that's their right, but just don't be angry with those of us who expect our candidates to earn our vote instead of acting entitled to it. I personally don't give two shits whether she's possibly the first woman POTUS. I didn't give two shits about whether PBO was the first AA POTUS. PBO earned my vote. He never acted entitled to it. If Bernie Sanders runs as a Dem, he gets my primary vote. That is a settled issue for me. If he doesn't do that, well then I guess I'll give it a good long look before deciding who earns my vote.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Of Democratic presidents. Something should have been done. Especially from 2008-2010.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)He's more like a DINO.
the_sly_pig
(752 posts)That would take an unattainable level of organization so I realize it's a pipe dream.... 
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)How do you feel about amnesty for undocumented immigrants / open borders?
littlemissmartypants
(34,006 posts)Excerpt from
Debating Conservatives on Immigration: Slogans vs. Economicsby Tom Thrasher, Contributing Editor,Free Liberal
http://freeliberal.com/articles/12196/debating-conservatives-on-immigration-slogans-vs-economics
the_sly_pig
(752 posts)Thats how I feel about immigration.
alp227
(33,308 posts)You realize right wingers have hijacked that word, right?
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2010/cnsamnesty.html
Quantess
(27,630 posts)Back in the 1970s and 1980s just about any teen who wanted to work could get a job.
That was how we saved up for our first cars, bought the cool jeans and shoes, saved for college, etc.
I remember friends' parents who would not even buy clothes for their teens since they had disposable money of their own. These days, teenagers get cars and gas money given to them, if their parents can afford it.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)Without strong unions this is what happens.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)newfie11
(8,159 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)The minimum wage debate reflects this fact. There is no desire by our owners to share the wealth of production.
quaker bill
(8,264 posts)to help teens put a few more bucks in their pockets over the summer. It was created because at the time a large swath of adults worked in various industries for less than what became the minimum.
In a strong and fast growing economy, like the one that existed when I started working in 1970, very few adults made the minimum. I did because it was my first job and I was 15. That said, even I was able to move to higher wages while still a teen, working part time.
In a stagnant economy, such as that created by Reagan / Volker in the 1980s, and generally maintained by FED policy and republican economic malfeasance up to the crash in 2007, more and more adults have become trapped in minimum and near minimum wage jobs, simply because there is no place for most of them to go.
One can imagine that hard and smart work will "take you places", and it can, but there has to be someplace to go. For most, there has not been someplace to go (other than broke) for a very long time.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
The Wizard
(13,786 posts)said he couldn't understand the American Civil War: the South wanted to own their slaves while the North wanted to rent them by the hour.
Mass
(27,315 posts)or were filling the low-income jobs (minorities).
May be it would be time to reinvent life rather than pining after an imaginary good time.
Man from Pickens
(1,713 posts)When we're talking about minimum wages for adults, that's a stopgap strategy because we lost on every other economic policy - from inequality, to college financing, to monetary policy, and many others.
For example, did you know that there was effectively zero inflation from the founding of the nation up until 1913? That the only times inflation existed at all were brief, relatively small spikes in wartime? How did we get conditioned to our money losing value year after year, and having to take the risk of loss (often in some slimy banker's hands) in order to preserve its purchasing power?
That's what I believe is the real fundamental force driving matters right now. We have had an effectively nonstop wartime economy since the Vietnam era, and eventually that wears a nation down and spends down its wealth, until it has nothing left. We're now at the endpoint of that process since we failed to stop it.
madville
(7,855 posts)Things like supermarket checkers and baggers will not even exist one day, once it gets cheap enough they will probably have some kind of RFID sticker or label on all items and when you checkout it will just scan the entire buggy in less than a second.
The shopper could actually just throw everything in their bags as they shopped because there will be no reason to touch it again until it's time to put the bags in the car.
I expect to see fully automated fast food restaurants in my lifetime, with self checkout and automated preparation and delivery machines.
unblock
(56,221 posts)in fact, over the years, there have been various suggestions of a lower minimum wage specifically for teens, under the argument that those working just to get some extra fun cash and job experience don't really need as much money as those working those same jobs but to actually support themselves and their family.
the reality is that there have always been many grown-ups who have struggled to support themselves and their family on minimum wage jobs, often competing with more privileged teens who didn't really need the job or the money.
do you really think the minimum wage law would have been passed and repeatedly increased if it were only intended to subsidies saturday nights out for teenagers?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It's not like the happy, holy 'job creators' were 'creating jobs' simply to keep teens off the streets. That was work that needed to be done to meet the demand. The fact that teens were paid so poorly was merely a reflection of the fact that most adults didn't really care how crappily teens were paid for doing the same work an adult could be doing, and thus didn't really care if they were being more thoroughly exploited by companies who were happy to keep more of the profits for themselves. And because we let this model of underpayment stand, they assumed it was 'right and proper' for people doing jobs that are often more physically demanding than better paid jobs to be paid crap wages.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)The south has risen all over the planet where the slaves that work the cheapest get the jobs ...that we used to have. Until we make this about "people over profit" it's only going to get worse.
daredtowork
(3,732 posts)In rural areas, people were stuck in minimum wage jobs for life. But on TV politicians said minimum wage jobs were for high school kids, etc.
Where there are no other businesses offering higher wages, there is no reason to offer higher wages. Consequently, people don't have a lot of spending money, and there's not stores offering goods to shop for (except the Walmart, which you probably have to drive to, since it will be triangulated somewhere between a dozen small towns), and you may not even have access to the Internet because it costs more in rural areas despite the fact most people make minimum wage.
My mom is near retirement age, and she still makes around minimum wage. She has a college education. She goes to the small town library to email me. At least the library provides public Internet access.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)F.D.R. envisioned a living wage, not a pocket money wage.
“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)This seems to be an issue that Republicans and most Democrats (not all, just a majority) seem to be on the same page about. of course, seeing as they're all wealthy, surrounded by wealthy people, feted by wealthy people who give them money to write policy for the wealthy, this is hardly at all surprising - even if there's no genuine hostility towards the poor, there's certainly no real consideration for them.
any civilized nation would build up, not trickle down.