Are you victim blaming when you encourage people not to take nude selfies?

[trumad]

My daughter accused me of victim blaming when I said if you don't want your nude selfie to get spread around on the net, don't take one.

I see her point--' but as someone who makes a living in the Cyber Security field. .. I see the hazard of doing such a thing.

Not sure how to handle this one.

[Laelth]

1. Wow!

If giving good advice is "victim blaming" I am in the wrong profession.

I have absolutely no advice for you if you are "unsure" about how to handle this.

-Laelth

[kcr]

2. It's the way you're saying it.

I don't have a problem with advising people not do to it, but I do have a problem with phrasing it the way you do. It's implying those who DO take nude selifes must have wanted them spread all over the internet so their fault. It does sound victim blamey.

[trumad]

4. Perhaps. ..

Don't mean it that way though.

[kcr]

19. I know. I don't think you do

I just meant to explain why it could sound that way. And even though I don't think it's bad advice necessarily, it grates that it's an issue. No one says "Don't have jewelry!" in response to burglaries, you know?

[PoliticAverse]

6. I agree the phrasing makes a difference, and I'd go with what pintobean said...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025474403#post3

[tazkcmo]

81. I diasgree.

It implies that those that do take nude selfies know before hand that there is a chance their pictures can end up on the internet.

[pintobean]

3. I told my daughter

never do anything in front of a camera that you don't want the whole world to see. She saw the wisdom of that immediately.

[enough]

18. This is the right tack to take. Puts the decision in her hands, and gives your

adult point of view about thinking of possible likely consequences. I also like it because it is a type of advice that can apply in many situations, i.e. think about what might follow from your actions.

[cwydro]

83. That is absolutely true.

I am so glad I grew up before the days of the internet.

Yikes.

[hunter]

91. Yeah, but what will you say if she does something unwise?

That she "shouldn't have done that?"

That would only make the situation worse.

This "whole world will see" sort of reasoning is incomplete.

Kids should have a realistic view of the hazards of various activities, and a realistic knowledge of how to stay out of trouble.

The hazard here is not the photographs, the hazard here is that some creep will steal them and post them on the internet.

"Just say no," doesn't work with kids; not with sex, not with drugs and alcohol, not with cars. It often seems teens and young twenty-somethings are not especially motivated by fear of physical injury or embarrassment. It's the "youthful immortality" thing that seems to be built into our genes.

Sending intimate pictures is fun, sex is fun, alcohol is fun, drugs are fun, cars are fun. As parents it's our job to help our kids safely navigate these dangerous waters, and that is a very complicated business.

[pintobean]

102. She's in her mid 20s and fine.

It's not like that tidbit of advice happened in a vacuum.

[msongs]

5. if one takes a nude selfie, one cannot claim to be a victim in any outcome from that choice nt

[Kalidurga]

9. A famous "feminist" once said

that a woman who goes on a date and gets raped can't claim victim status as she has taken on the risk of rape by going on a date. Your sentiments here are truely disgusting.

[cwydro]

13. Ridiculous anology. nt

[Kalidurga]

16. Oh I see now

your post has enlightened me a great deal. Don't bother to add an explaination of why, I sure it will be equally well thought out.

[cwydro]

78. Sorry, I was out on my bike.

I actually exercise instead of typing on a keyboard all day.

The analogy was ridiculous (imo) because in no way can the crime of rape be compared to a celebrity's nude pic being released. This crap has been going on for awhile now (the unauthorized release" of these selfies). No way, no how is that analogous to rape. Again, in my opinion.

Come on...the aftermath of a rape...? No words can describe that. Well, there are words, but I don't want to think of them.

The aftermath of being embarrassed on the internet? Come on now. And in two or three days, it will be yesterday's news because the attention span of Twitter is the size of a gnat's brain.

[Kalidurga]

86. You don't need to apologize for being on your bike.

And really nothing you said made your thoughts any better.

[cwydro]

103. Oh, well then

We're good now.

You think a celebrity selfie exposure is equivalent to rape.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[jaysunb]

27. Stunningly stupid post. n/t

[Kalidurga]

53. You seem intelligent

with your three word critiques.

[yeoman6987]

58. Did you really type that?

[Kalidurga]

64. Did I type what?

You seem not so good with deets.

[Lancero]

62. I'm laughing at how many people are pissed over this statement.

It's a extreme, but at it's core it's the exact same thing that msongs posted.

[Kalidurga]

63. I can spot victim blaming from a mile away

and I am half blind.

[tazkcmo]

82. Puh-lease

I was waiting for this. Going on a date is a normal and public thing. 99% of people do it. It is an entrenched part of being a social human. It is common, accepted and expected in practically every society on the planet. Taking a nude selfie is in no way comparable and you making the comparison is disgusting and minimizes the violence that is rape.

[Kalidurga]

87. Is it really minizing rape to compare sexual abuse to rape?

Did the people consent to having their pictures released? Nope, they consented to nothing they are victims. If you think they are not feeling like they had something taken away from them I would suggest you are extremely cold hearted.

[tazkcmo]

88. No

But comparing the conscious decision to take an electronic photograph of yourself naked on a device that is connected to the internet knowing in advance that there is a decent possibility of it being posted on the internet precisely due to your fame and notoriety is not the same thing as Jane Doe going on a date and getting raped by her date or anyone else for that matter.

edited to add: This applies to ANYBODY that takes an electronic photograph of themselves naked on a device that is connected to the internet knowing in advance that there is a decent possibility of it being posted on the internet.

And again, taking a selfie isNOT a traditional part of human social behavior that spans the globe and social, racial, ethnic boundaries.

[Kalidurga]

90. OIC engaging in a legal activity

via an electronic device knowing in advance a perp can steal your information is just fool hardy and reckless and the victims fault for not realizing this or doing the behavior anyway. That's a sigh of relief, now people who have their identity stolen or emails hacked can rest assured they shouldn't have sent the emails or done any electronic activity on the internet. And I am still sorry you don't see sexual abuse as sexual abuse just because someone engaged in an activity of their own free will.

[tazkcmo]

92. I don't see

talking a nude selfie as a sexual act or a normal part of Joe and Jane Doe's every day life. If you want to compare it to those types of activities, you go right ahead.

[Kalidurga]

93. I don't see why anyone should have to justify taking a nude selfie

that is your problem not mine.

[tazkcmo]

94. Did you read the OP?

It's not about whether one does or does not take a nude selfie. It's about advising someone about transmitting said selfie over the internet or even just having the device hooked up to the internet. The advice given, and I agree, is it's not a good idea because there are d*ck heads out there that will publish them on the internet for everyone to see if they can. This is advice I would give my children, siblings, parents and friends and while we're at it, to you also.

I would add that if you have this burning desire to do so, I recommend a REAL picture like a polaroid type (no developing needed) hand delivered and any negatives/other existing evidence destroyed. To do it electronically is very risky.

No where have I disparaged the act of the selfie, nude or other wise. I have never said anything negative about the act of taking nude pictures of consenting adults be that another person or yourself, in my life.

Don't talk to strangers, if you play with fire you might get burned, look both ways before you cross the street, don't flash your cash. All pieces of advice of given my children. If this is blaming my children for getting abducted, receiving a 3rd degree burn, getting run over or mugged then so be it.

[Kalidurga]

96. Did you read the OP?

I assume now that you are tired of trying to justify whatever point you were trying to make now you want to question my reading skills. That's a pretty slick move there. But, you still have to live with yourself.

[tazkcmo]

97. Not at all

I did read the OP and explained it to you. But what the hey, I'll try to clear it up for you. If my child, parent, sibling, friend or a total stranger asked me if I thought it was a good idea to transmit a nude pic of themselves over the internet to their sweetie or whom ever, I would say no.

[Kalidurga]

98. So it's still not relevant

Tell them not to do it explain the dangers and hey when/if they do it anyway and they get hacked you can comfort them by telling them it is their fault.

[HERVEPA]

28. really dumb sentiment.

[pnwmom]

59. Right. And if a woman walks around half-naked, it's her own fault if she's raped.

She can't claim to be a victim from that choice.

[Kalidurga]

7. Why would you discourage people from doing something they wish to do?

Is it a hazard, obviously. But, you take risks everytime you get out of bed. Would you encourage people to stay in bed? Hazards are literally everywhere you go and inherent in just about every activity.

The onus isn't on the person who takes a nude selfie and puts it in a supposedly secure area to not have that picture end up in the general internet for anyone to see. The onus is on people to not engage in criminal activity.

[trumad]

8. Maybe I should not discourage...

Maybe I should just point out the hazards.

Good advice.

[Kalidurga]

11. I think that is a good thing to do

tell people the ways they could be hacked so they can take extra precautions if they like. I am not against risk reduction or management, still there are people that get around that and it's still not the victims fault even if they had a weak password.

[Renew Deal]

84. Are you OK with 9 year olds firing Uzi's?

If they wish to do it, it's fine right?

[Kalidurga]

85. Explain how that is relevant to this discussion.

[brooklynite]

10. It is not shaming to point out that ANY electronic picture has the potential to go public...

...and you should be prepared for the consequences.

It IS shaming to say that it is philosophically wrong (as one person here commented, "degrading&quot to take one if you choose to.

[hobbit709]

14. Is it victim blaming if you tell someone not to step out in front of traffic?

[NuclearDem]

20. No, it's victim blaming when someone walks on the sidewalk

And when some asshole veers off the road and hits them, people blame the pedestrian.

[hobbit709]

35. The consequences of doing stupid things fall on the one doing it.

I can't think of anything much more stupid than taking nude selfies and putting them in the cloud or even leaving them on your phone when it comes to the internet.
Maybe making your password "password" might be dumber, but not by much.

[Inkfreak]

54. Ha! I made mine password2 to fool everyone...

[PeaceNikki]

61. The burden of moral guilt is on the people who stole said property

It is not Ms. Ritter’s or Ms. Dunst’s responsibility to protect their own property from theft by not creating said property or only storing it in a specific place any more than it’s any woman’s responsibility to dress a certain way, travel in groups, wear special nail polish, or what-have-you to lessen the chance that someone will attempt to assault them. As is often the case when we discuss crimes of this nature against women, we have it backwards. It is not on the (usually, but not always, female) victim to take “enough” measures to protect herself but rather on the (usually, but not always, male) victimizer to choose not to commit said crime. That notion was lost on the Disney Channel back in 2007. They treated Vanessa Hudgens like a sinful child after personal nudes were leaked and stated that “Vanessa has apologized for what was obviously a lapse in judgment. We hope she’s learned a valuable lesson.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2014/09/01/jennifer-lawrence-nude-photo-leak-isnt-a-scandal-its-a-sex-crime/

[TM99]

15. Absolutely not.

"Victim blaming" used to actually mean something in specific circumstances like rape cases in a court room, etc. but now it seems to be used to avoid a lot of personal adult responsibilities and a continuation of adolescent rebellion.

As a adults we hopefully have learned that actions bear consequences - some good and some ill. If we don't want to risk certain possible consequences then we simply don't take the action.

Nude selfies are a product of the current times where narcissism is more rampant in a generation reared on social networking and persona management. Eventually enough of them - men and women, celebrities or common folk - are going to have to realize that there is zero privacy in this digital age. If you don't want a nude photo out there, for pete's sake either don't take them or don't store them in the 'cloud', on your mobile phone, or anywhere else that security is non-existence.

This advise is not victim blaming; it is not slut shaming; but it is simply the stark reality of the situation. Sadly, your daughter can not understand this, then there really is nothing you can do. If she makes the same mistake, then she, alone, has to suffer any negative consequences. That is the only way we grow and learn. Over-protecting or enabling her through acceptance that is victim blaming is far more detrimental in my view to her authentic adult femininity than just stating it like it is and any resultant natural consequences of any of her true choices.

[Kalidurga]

17. she, alone, has to suffer any negative consequences.

cuz she did a naughty amiright

[TM99]

22. Mind reading is not your strong suit.

Did I say it was a naughty act?

My girlfriend and I carried on a sexual relationship at a distance for a few years that involved nude photos and movies. We were not ignorant nor adolescent enough to assume that somehow we might be special and different. If we put the photos or movies on insecure devices or shared them in insecure ways, then we alone were responsible for any negative consequences if they were 'leaked' or 'hacked'.

Claiming sexual sophistication as the rationale for an inherently risky act with only negative consequences as an outcome is not sexual maturity.

[Kalidurga]

26. I am so sorry to hear that

it sounds like you would blame yourself more for being hacked than you would blame the hacker for illegal activity. But, if that is how you roll carry on then.

[TM99]

30. Of course a hacker is responsible for their actions,

and as an adult so am I.

Anyone who believes that there is privacy or security on the internet has simply not been paying attention for the last 20 years. I minimize my security exposure in numerous ways. I use a/v products. I scan my systems regularly for malware and trojans. I use throw away credit cards on networks like the Playstation and Xbox online gaming networks as they have been hacked numerous times in the past. I use one account for online purchases and only use reputable online vendors. Why would I treat personal & private intimate data any differently? I am not on social networking sites. I don't store naked photos or videos of my partner on any device connected to the internet.

That is not prudery. That is not displacing blame. That is maturity with boundaries and a health amount of risk management for my own activities.

[Kalidurga]

34. Risk management is prudent

flippantly telling people they alone are responsible if nude pictures become available to the general public is not.

[TM99]

41. Again with the mind reading.

I was not flippant. I am simply an adult.

[Kalidurga]

48. Are you sure?

she, alone, has to suffer any negative consequences. Those are your words not mine and they sound flippant to me. Perhaps it wasn't your intent. But, your focus seems to be more on the victim and not the criminal activity.

[TM99]

68. It is not flipplant to recognize that as adults

I can not control for the behaviors of another person. I can control my own. If the action I am taking comes with risks that involve others potentially hurting me in some fashion, then yes, I am responsible for whether or not I take the action and whether or not I am prepared to live with the consequences.

Why is this very mature and adult behavior not recognized for what it is?

[Kalidurga]

89. I love how you throw around the word adult as if

you have a clue what it means to be adult and mature. Mature adults do not under and circumstances blame the victim of a crime. Thanks for understanding the words I am saying even if you can't quite process them yet.

[TM99]

108. A mind reader, arrogant

and condescending. Hopefully this is just your online persona hidden behind an avatar and not how you are in real life.

Yes, I am quite confident that I know exactly what it means to be both an adult and to exhibit mature behavior. I have been in the field of psychology for almost 30 years. I have worked extensively with trauma and abuse survivors. I also diplomat status in clinical sexology.

If we are discussing the Lawrence leak, if there was a crime committed, it should and will be dealt with legally. It still behooves both men and women, as adults, to recognize that there are risks in various environments and to have boundaries to deal with them. We expect adults to lock the doors of their home. We expect adults to realize that if they forget to lock their car and their wallet is stolen, while the criminal if caught will be prosecuted, the individual is still not a passive victim of fate. One would hope that as an adult that they will not make a similar mistake again in the future. Assuming that something is private when it is not especially when general knowledge is there is no excuse.

So, if we are discussing the actual OP where a parent is faced with dealing with this latest hacking by fielding questions from their youngsters about privacy and security, it is definitely not victim blaming to offer wise counsel. You are free to take all the naked photos you want. Also you are free to distribute and store them however you want. As an adult you are allowed those freedoms. And if you choose insecure and open ways like taking and storing them on your cellphone, you are not a passive victim of fate if and when a criminal steals from you. Career criminals know how to profile their victims. As an adult, why give them reasons to target yourself? That makes no sense and yes, it is immature to believe that life should be a utopian existence where any free act should only produce positive outcomes and that the culture will be made perfect and devoid of violence, abuse, criminality, etc.

[jaysunb]

29. +1 well said... n/t

[Cleita]

21. I never understood taking nude photos or doing sex videos

and then putting them on the internet. But I'm not going to judge. In the case of actresses, it seems most of them have had to do on camera nudity at one time or the other, so the issue of invasion of privacy does open up questions.

[ripcord]

24. There is a big difference

It comes down to choice, it is their not some internet peepers.

[RandySF]

60. Well, many couples take make sex videos for their own private enjoyment

But, more often than not, someone gets angry and seeks revenge by making them public. On the other hand, there are voyeurs who get a thrill out of strangers watch what they do.

[pinboy3niner]

23. People don't expect to have their private phones hacked

Their expectation of privacy may be unrealistic, but most people--even some celebrities--are not aware of the hacking risks. And when we think of hacking, we're thinking computers, not our phones.

It's worth educating people about the risks--but without blaming them for having their private information stolen and broadcast illegally on the internet.

[PeaceNikki]

25. If you don't want nice things stolen, don't have nice things!! If you don't want your credit card #

stolen, don't use one!!

Warning of the risks is reasonable. However it becomes blaming when you say or imply it's the FAULT of someone who did something, or that they deserve it when they took precautions to be discreet about it and they were hacked.

They were hacked. This wasn't like Anthony Weiner's bonehead (lol) move - they were hacked.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. This

[TM99]

36. Do you leave your nice things unsecured in your home or

do you lock your doors?

Do you use your credit cards on insecure websites or do you exercise reasonable caution given the severity of the negative consequences if your bank account was accessed illegally?

Why would you act any differently with one of the most intimate aspects of ourselves - our nudity, our human sexuality, and the sharing of that with another?

Hackers, thieves, rapists, murders, etc. all exist. We still go on living. We just don't act like we are free to do whatever we want and not expect negative consequences if we are not cognizant of the risks.

[PeaceNikki]

37. You clearly missed part of the post to which you responded.

kthxbai

[TM99]

43. Perhaps your point is not clear? nt

[Chan790]

39. +1 thank you. n/t

[joshcryer]

71. Eh, "don't leave your iPhone out in a bad neighborhood," is advice.

It's to prevent you from becoming a victim.

[Iggo]

32. Nope.

[Kaleva]

33. I don't take that attitude to those who advise me to lock the doors at night.

[PeaceNikki]

40. If you don't want your house broken into, don't have a house.

Simple!

[Chan790]

38. Yes, you are.

The only people responsible for acts of malevolence are the people committing the acts of malevolence. All victim-blaming is shaming and effort to redirect responsibility away from perpetrators onto victims.

• If you don't want to be in a car accident, don't ride in cars.
• It's his fault he was murdered, he lived in a high-crime area.
• Did you see what she was wearing, it's no wonder she got raped.
• The victims of the terrorist attack deserved it, they're Americans.
• Kids in wouldn't die in airstrikes if the terrorists would just stop attacking us.

Slut-shaming, race-shaming, nationality-shaming, victim-shaming, poverty-shaming, collective-guilt. They're fucking inappropriate on a progressive message-board like DU. I wish juries had more gumption to hide shame-posts.

[Font size="4"]Blame-shifting?[/font]

[geek tragedy]

42. tell her to avoid cloud storage and that any picture she sends is one button push away

from being posted on the internet. same logic goes for things said in emails, etc.

[libdem4life]

44. I think you got it there. Where is this "victim blaming" coming from? I got that on

another thread. Like the "leaked" sex tapes. At best narcissistic and at worse, "Oops I did it again".

[PeaceNikki]

45. Thirty celebrity women's accounts were hacked

Were they all in cahoots? Same agent?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2014/09/01/jennifer-lawrence-nude-photo-leak-isnt-a-scandal-its-a-sex-crime/

[libdem4life]

46. Cahoots? Why does anyone take nude photos and send them to the cloud or the bar down the

street...Man or woman. I can't think of one person I know interested in seeing me naked...and I'm pretty fit and all. But naked? Yuck. And where does the agent thing come from? Lots of energy about this...interesting.

[PeaceNikki]

49. it's none of your business why. this isn't about you.

[PeaceNikki]

47. Jennifer Lawrence Nude Photo Leak Isn't A "Scandal." It's A Sex Crime.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2014/09/01/jennifer-lawrence-nude-photo-leak-isnt-a-scandal-its-a-sex-crime/


As most of you probably know, someone somewhere dumped a deluge of purported nude photographs of a number of female celebrities online yesterday. The victims include the likes of Kate Upton, Victoria Justice, Ariana Grande, Kirsten Dunst, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, Krysten Ritter, Yvonne Strahovski, and Teresa Palmer. But the focal point for this story has been Hunger Games/American Hustle actress Jennifer Lawrence, since the Oscar winning actress is perhaps the most famous actress on the planet right now. Without going into sordid details ( Justice and Grande have claimed their respective photos are fake, others have confirmed they are real), I’d like to make two very specific points. Ms. Lawrence and the other victims have absolutely nothing to apologize for in terms of the contents of the photos or the nature in which they were leaked. The story itself should not be addressed as if it were a scandal, but rather what it is: A sex crime involving theft of personal property and the exploitation of the female body.

Outlets as mainstream as People and CNN are referring to the photo leak as a “scandal.” All due respect, it’s not a scandal. The actresses and musicians involved did nothing immoral or legally wrong by choosing to take nude pictures of themselves and put them on their personal cell phones. You may argue, without any intended malice, that it may be unwise in this day-and-age to put nude pictures of yourself on a cell phone which can be act and/or stolen. But without discounting that statement, the issue is that these women have the absolute right and privilege to put whatever they want on their cell phones with the expectation that said contents will remain private or exclusive to whomever is permitted to see them just like their male peers. The burden of moral guilt is on the people who stole said property and on those who chose to consume said stolen property for titillation and/or gratification.

[ProfessorGAC]

66. While I Agree With Almost Everything You Said. . .

. . . where are the musicians?

And, my wife and i are giant Lawrence fans so we are sympathisizing with this. But, again what musicians?

[WinkyDink]

50. It is what we quaintly once called "protecting."

[gollygee]

51. If your response to someone having their private photos hacked is

"You shouldn't take nude selfies," then yes, it's victim blaming.

If you are having a general conversation with your daughter about internet safety and not about any specific incident, then no it isn't.

[notadmblnd]

52. Maybe use a Kodak instamatic and not a cell phone?

For those that like to admire themselves in their birthday suits.

[yeoman6987]

55. Sometimes truth needs to be said

Taking nudie pictures of yourself and putting them on the web no matter where is not a good idea. Hardly victim bashing. Just good ole common sense which alas a society is sorely lacking.

[LittleBlue]

56. You definitely don't put nudes on a cloud server!

Despite the hacker, Apple employees might be able to look at that stuff. NSA definitely can.

I hope some good can come from this incident. Raise awareness about the dangers of information stored online. Don't trust Apple (or any big corp) with your info!

[RandySF]

57. The bottom-line reality of the world is this:

Any image of yourself that goes into cyberspace is beyond your control. Is it wrong to be shared: yes, but you're still exposing yourself to danger. No one claims "victim blaming" when advising women to walk with someone to their cars at night. The same goes for making selfies.

[Cleita]

65. I'm taking down my FB page for this reason.

I'm finding the same photo I used there at other websites I have gone to even tho non-political. I don't like it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

67. If you want to have nude photos taken of yourself

maybe you could do it with an old-fashioned film camera. Then you would have a lot more control over where the pic ends up - although, of course, a disgruntled ex-boyfriend/girlfriend who had a copy or a negative could scan it and get it onto the internet that way. Still, with the old way you can have your naked photo and protect it, too, more or less.

Fortunately for me and even more so for the rest of the world, there are no nude photos of me anywhere, in any form.

[Cleita]

69. How about an old fashioned Polaroid. No negatives there either.

If you have a falling out with a partner, then burn them. No more trace of anything.

[randome]

70. Would you blame me if I left my wallet full of cash on a public sidewalk and it disappeared?

Or would you simply say, "That was stupid of you." ?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[The Straight Story]

72. I tell people not to keep money in banks in case they are hacked...

They have no expectation of privacy when using the internet to conduct their banking - worried about hackers, drive to the bank and walk it in like real Americans used to. Just don't anyone see you holding that money when you walk in to the bank, or if you open your wallet/purse when in a store paying for that can of pop to drink on the way. It might lure them to you.

That said - there is something to be said about being risk aware and making yourself risk adverse.

Mom used to call it common sense. 'Bring that damn bike in at night before you go to bed or someone will steal it, and I don't have the money to get you another one' which means she was putting the responsibility on us to secure our things (and yes, if they had been stolen she would have blamed both us and the person stealing it - one for doing it and us for not listening to her when she told us there were people who would and doing nothing sensible to deter them). When camping she and dad would tell us to seal things up or else the racoons would get into it all. It wasn't about 'well you deserve it' if they did, it was simply 'this is how racoons act, you can't control them, but you can thwart them'.

[Yavin4]

73. Yes. You have a right to private data storage.

Blaming nude selfies misses the entire point.

[JVS]

74. Nude pictures get shown around. That's just their nature.

It's like telling secrets, they get passed on.

[oldhippie]

75. I think it is all projection ...

... in the mind of the listener. It seems almost anything can be inferred to mean whatever you project it to mean.

[Warren DeMontague]

76. I would encourage people to understand how the cloud works.

Leaving nude pictures on a cloud server, not a great idea.

[temporary311]

77. I guess it depends.

Is it victim blaming when you warn someone to look both ways before you cross the street? But some people do seem to be saying it as a sort of "thats what you get." I've certainly seen tweets to that effect. But in general, I would say it's probably good advice to not store anything sensitive digitally if you can at all help it. Unfortunately, many things can't be helped but be used digitally if you don't live in a cave, but nudie pics don't really fall into those categories.

[tazkcmo]

79. No

You're giving good advice. Kind of like, "Look both ways before you cross the street." It's a smart, prudent thing to do because we all know there is a chance you can get hit by a car anytime you venture into or near a roadway.

Then there's this nugget my folks told me. Just cuz you can doesn't mean you should.

[hunter]

80. Yes. Creeps get off on the fact the pictures are stolen.

The peeping tom is not simply looking to see naked people; his thrill is in the theft, in the taking of something from the victim.

That explains the ex-girlfriend sites, the hidden camera sites, the falling down drunk women sites, and all the other garbage on the internet. The internet is a paradise for peeping toms.

Being a gentleman, or a gentlewoman, is easy. Say you see someone clobbered by heavy surf at the beach and they lose their swimsuit. You don't gawk, you don't make rude comments, you don't take pictures... you hand them a towel to cover up, make sure they are not injured, and speak no more of it. It's basic decency, looking out for your fellow human.

In a similar way to the peeping tom, flashers get off on showing strangers something the stranger doen't want to see. It's not about the nudity, it's about the unwelcome imposition of their own nudity on others.

Personally, I'm not upset at all by nudity. Casual nudity doesn't bother me, my own or anyone else's. But there's a big difference between the people frolicking naked in the river and the creep hiding in the bushes taking pictures with a long lens. There's a big difference between a couple of people casually walking down the streets of San Francisco naked, and some guy flashing students in front of the high school. There's a big difference between someone posting their own nude pictures on the internet and somebody posting stolen pictures.

There are plenty of pictures of naked people on the internet, pictures of people who consented to have those pictures posted.

There are a few naked pictures of me too, that I either posted myself, agreed to model, or was in a public space where I had no expectation of privacy.

I wouldn't blame anyone for nude pictures. I do blame creeps for taking them without permission.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

95. should people also not have nice things in their home because there are thieves in the world?

or should we try to find the thieves and prosecute them?

[LeftyMom]

99. Yes.

Just as sharing your bits with one person isn't throwing open the door to make your crotch a public space, snapping a picture of those bits doesn't mean anybody who you don't intend help themselves to that picture.

Human beings have been drawing/painting/sculpting/taking pictures of themselves/each other naked for as long as there have been human beings. If you wouldn't grab somebody's wallet to get a picture out of it, you shouldn't get into their phone either. If you wouldn't rifle through a wallet somebody else stole you shouldn't help yourself to stolen images.

Technology is imperfect. Locks can be broken, safes cracked, phones hacked. Nothing is secure when enough time and energy is applied to releasing it. The only limit is human fucking decency.

[Silent3]

100. It's often a touchy issue when you suggest precautionary measures against victimization.

One example where it isn't very touchy is if, say, you advise someone against leaving their wallet hanging out of their back pocket while walking crowded city streets, or advise someone to keep their house locked up while on vacation.

It is unlikely that this will generate a response about how "what we really need to do" is teach people not to pickpocket, or teach people not to enter houses that are not their own.

The more the victimization is about sex, however, the more this former kind of response results.

In an ideal world, you could put your wallet anywhere you like, leave the doors to your house wide open, and nothing bad would happen to you. If something bad does happen, it can certainly be said that the real blame belongs to the pickpockets or the intruders.

Similar things can be said for other kinds of risks, the people who take advantage of your vulnerability, and whether people are "victim blaming" or not when they advise precautions to reduce the odds of becoming a victim.

[tularetom]

101. You can take all the naked selfies you want

That's your business.

Once they get onto the inter tubes you can't expect them to remain private. And if you're the one that put them there, you are at least partially responsible.

If the pictures were hacked from the cloud, there's a good chance that the hackers may find themselves in legal jeopardy, but any celebrity that knowingly posted naked pictures to social media or even attached them to emails won't get much sympathy from a jury.

Don't put anything online that you don't want the whole world to know. Not victim blaming but common sense. Especially for a celebrity.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

105. That's pretty much where I am with this. Snap away...

but don't be surprised if the pics end up "out there" for mass consumption some day.

Common sense, indeed.

[lumberjack_jeff]

104. Get her mom to say it. Then it's okay. nt

[Brickbat]

106. A dear friend was asked to send nude selfies of herself from the waist up

to send to her post-mastectomy plastic surgeon. What is she supposed to do?

[TM99]

107. Personally, I would suggest that if she doesn't want to risk exposure,

then she should either take the photo on a device, transfer it to a CD or USB stick and hand it directly to the surgeon. Or do it the old fashion way with an instant camera. Either way, she has more control over the photo without involving an insecure medium and a public forum between her and her MD.