Investigatory police stops vs. regular traffic stops: what white people don't see.

[kwassa]

The first kind generally happen only to those who are Driving While Black. The second are the type that everyone gets, and whites generally think are the only type that exist.

Here is a terrific short article on the subject, which will demonstrate the problems generated

How to rebuild trust between the police and African Americans

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/how-to-rebuild-trust-between-the-police-and-african-americans/2014/08/29/77c59ace-2d50-11e4-994d-202962a9150c_story.html

The incidents described above are called investigatory stops. Unlike traffic-safety stops, in which the purpose is to sanction safety violations, investigatory stops are intended to check whether a person is engaged in serious criminal activity. Our interviews revealed that while whites are quite familiar with traffic-safety stops, they have little experience with investigatory stops. But half of all stops reported by blacks were investigatory.

...........................................................

Police seek to justify investigatory stops as a way to fight crime proactively in high-crime areas, and it is true that these stops occasionally uncover illegal drugs and weapons. But this comes at a cost of stopping large numbers of innocent people. This “numbers game,” as police sometimes call it, sacrifices the dignity and trust of hundreds who are innocent to find one who is guilty.

There is a way forward: Rein in investigatory stops. African Americans resent not so much the police but a particular type of police activity. They, like whites, accept police stops made for a clear violation and not as a pretext to question and search. A black man who has been stopped many times told us, “If I’m at the wrong, you know, I could admit to it. If I’m clocked speeding, and I know I was speeding, I can accept that. But not when I’m harassed or, like I said, I’ve had a gun drawn at me for any particular reason and he wanted me to step out of the car, and raise my hands and all that.”

.........................................................

The problem is not police stops — it is investigatory stops. These stops poison blacks’ attitudes toward the police — and toward the law itself. They undermine police effectiveness and turn the citizens of a democracy into the controlled — and resentful —subjects of a security state. It’s time to end them.

[daleanime]

1. K&R....

[gollygee]

2. kick

[treestar]

3. K&R

[ReRe]

4. K&R

It's wrong. It's discrimination. It's harassment, GDit! Leave 'em alone. If they aren't breaking the law, leave them the eff alone. Maybe it might be time for concerned citizens to stop when they see a cop has stopped someone and doing a search. To be a witness.
I think it might be time to start policing the police!

[AverageJoe90]

7. Agreed. Enough of this goddamn corruption already. Also.

I think it might be time to start policing the police!

This. Just this, times a fucking million.

[Comrade Grumpy]

5. Those are what I call "pretext" traffic stops.

I'm sure they happen more frequently to black and brown people.

But they are also a favorite drug war enforcement tool.

Try driving a car with Washington or Oregon plates into Idaho or a car with Colorado plates into Kansas and you may be involved in just such a stop:

"I pulled you over for, uh, weaving within your lane. Where are you coming from and what are you carrying? And do you mind if I take a look?"

You can always refuse to allow a search, but then you face being detained on the side of the highway until the cop can summon a drug dog. The Supreme Court, in its infinite wisdom, has determined that a drug dog search is not a search

[yallerdawg]

6. Down here in Alabama...

we have routine police roadblocks. Typically, whether local, county or state troopers they pull over everyone and at least check driver's license, registration and proof of insurance. Look at all occupants.

It is very intimidating and Big Brotherish.

We don't live in a police state?

[Enthusiast]

8. Kicked and recommended!

Thank you, kwassa.

[obxhead]

9. Yep

[politicat]

10. K&R. They're devastating to maintaining trust in the community.

I'm a small, white woman, but in grad school I a) drove a beater car that b) I plastered with stickers while c) living in a brown part of town because d) grad student with no money.

And I learned what living with investigatory stops was like. I lived in that neighborhood for 19 months, during which I got pulled over at least twice a month. I drove carefully, even then. I had several friends severely injured in car accidents during high school, including one severe brain injury that destroyed my friend's potential. After the first couple stops, I got even more cautious, to the point where I drove to work/school/grocery and nowhere else, and planned that every trip would take an extra fifteen minutes for the BS stop. Ghu forbid something like a headlight burn out -- getting to the auto parts store ten minutes away took almost an hour because I got stopped six times in four miles. I changed that bulb in the parking lot... and still got stopped once on the way home because beater after dark.

Not that walking was better. I lived in the frakkin' desert, so my best hours were after dark and before dawn. A midnight trip to the convenience store almost always got me an ID and show of hands, and more official gropings than I care to recall. (And it's not like I was the only nocturnal desert dweller. It's not uncommon when day temps are 120 and nights are 90.) You'd think after a few months, they would have learned something of the neighborhood patterns, but that would have required the police department to pay attention, not be a profit center, or the center of local corruption. (It was well known that that town's cops busted for drugs, then sold the dope and weed out the back. Especially the dope, because dope-sick is a thing and they could get whatever was left in the dope-sick's pocket. No actual arrest, because then the gravy-train dries up. But they kept the 'roids and the coke.)

I admit that I used what I now call white privilege and got nothing more than continued harassment for it. I got lucky. I had access to the internet (then still rare) and academic advisors with ACLU and civil rights experience. I learned the limits of my mouth and stayed just inside. Got a warrant? Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? I don't consent. Am I under arrest? And filing reports with the campus ACLU, then the Department of Justice. (It apparently, eventually helped. The town was investigated after I moved away.)

This was 20 years ago. I still don't trust cops. I still won't talk to them. When one came to the door a few weeks ago (in my affluent, liberal, hippie friendly suburb), my automatic first question was for his warrant. It shocked him, especially to see such hostility from 5 feet of middle aged professional wearing a twinset, skirt and heels. Hostility turned to contempt when he mentioned the address he was looking for, and it was clear he had failed to notice the 4 inch tall numbers right next to the door. I managed to keep my mouth shut while looking pointedly at the house number, but it was a near thing.

A couple years ago, our cat bit my spouse while we were at the vet. (She was sick, had been in the car, was stressed, and didn't like getting her temp taken.) Because it was a bite at the vet, animal control had to be notified, and her papers checked. That week made me seriously sick with anxiety and rage, to the point where I could not even contemplate being in the house with the officer. Spouse had to handle that.

I lived with that harassment for less than two years after becoming an adult. I escaped it. Since moving away, my entire personal contact with the police has been one actual safety stop and one rear-ending (of me), the lost cop and the animal control officer. (Professional is another story -- for three years, most of my clients were court-ordered, so probation and parole officers were part of my life.) I can barely imagine how much damage it does to a child who sees nothing but the harassment, who has no experience with police as peace officers, day in and out, for years. It takes a serious act of will for me to call 911 for an emergency. No wonder crime goes unreported.

The only time I have anything in common with the libertarians is on police expansion, but when I get wound up, my inner Ron Paul comes to the fore. It's not an aspect of myself I like, and it is traceable entirely to those two years. I had to be very careful during Occupy because my inner, damaged citizen does consider them a fascist, legally sanctioned mafia. I know that isn't necessary. I know that's a reaction. But it doesn't help.

This harassment is real. It leaves scars. It makes everyone less safe, both citizens and cops. It must stop.

[Not Sure]

12. Great post. Thanks for sharing.

I had similar bad experiences with greater Atlanta area cops when I was in college. I still don't expect cops to be anything other than corrupt enforcers. The news lately just seems to prove me right.

[politicat]

17. I think it's important for people who have experienced it to share.

Especially if those people aren't the typical victim.

I've had senior staff and faculty who have never experienced anything but upper-middle class suburbia and don't think police harassment is a real problem, until someone like me, who can effectively code switch to their language and POV, tells them that it is real, happens, and hurts.

[Bette Noir]

14. I hear you. When I was poor, and drove crummy cars,

I got stopped by the police all the time. In retrospect, it was usually in the upper-class beach towns just a few miles west of the working-class towns where I lived. I guess poor people aren't supposed to go to the beach, even though they're public property by California law.

[politicat]

18. Oh, yes.

Did my undergrad in Ventura. Had noisy roommates and suite mates, so I studied at the beach.

I didn't drive then, but I swear the Ventura cops thought my bicycle was the best smuggling vehicle ever.

[kwassa]

21. Great story. Thank you.

[Not Sure]

11. Every night/morning when I leave work, I get followed by the cops

I work for a railroad and I work weird hours, usually leaving for home in the wee hours of the morning. As soon as I pass through a certain one-stoplight town, the five-o starts following me. If they are parked on the side of the road, they will throw gravel as they tear out of their parking place on the shoulder and race up behind me. If they are parked in the same direction as me, I will see them come up quickly and follow me closely, often for several miles. Every time they see me I make complete stops at stops signs (I do this anyway) and I move at 38 in a 40 zone. I guess I just bore them to death with my current registration, inspection, fully functioning lights, etc. It's irritating as shit, especially when I'm exhausted after operating a train for 12 hours, but I will be damned if I'm going to give the bastards a reason to pull me over. I'm not getting pulled over, so it's not as bad as the stops described in the article, but it is harassment. I am not new at this job, this time of day or this area. You'd think they'd figure it out that I'm not going to fuck up and give them a chance. But they don't and the following continues.

[Brickbat]

16. If you work in a small enough town, the cops learn and recognize the RRers vehicles.

[politicat]

19. Might it be worth the fifty or sixty for a dash cam/phone mount and 20 minutes of the chief's time?

Because if it's happening regularly, the chief might need to know zie has bored officers and find them something better to do.

They should know better. They should know the train's schedule. Trains are a regular feature. If they're having that many problems, maybe it's a memory problem.

[8 track mind]

27. it seems you have the same problem i do

I drive a 1988 chevy van. Its a four speed manual, loud pipes and a case of GM white paint peel. Seems i always had a mysterious problem with the licence plate light, yet everything was in order. So i figured they just couldnt see it (cops never lie, LOL) so i built a little circuit board and packed 23 high intensity LED's in the place of the old bulb. Now i can see the tag light from my side view mirror at night! I dare them to pull me over for a tag light.......

[azurnoir]

13. this has been going on for decades largely unoticed by White Americans or worse

the belief that well he/she must have done something because the police never do that to me

and I am going to add to my observation it's gotten worse since President Obama was elected 'almost' as if the police were giving the message of don't get too uppity because we can still do anything to you and no one will lift a finger

[freshwest]

15. A well-reasoned out call for change that should come to pass nationally.

[kwassa]

20. Yes. That is exactly what it is.

[kwassa]

22. kick

[1StrongBlackMan]

23. I would argue that EVERY stop ...

of African-American males are investigatory stops ... It only becomes a regular traffic stop when the Officer has nothing to go on to escalate the stop. It's almost like, "No drugs, no guns, no warrants, no uppityness; well, I'm still going to give you a ticket."

[Comrade Grumpy]

24. I wouldn't go that far. There are legitimate reasons for traffic stops.

Speeding, reckless driving, etc. This is why, when carrying marijuana, I obey all traffic laws.

But it is probably likely that once the cop realizes he has pulled over a black man, the fishing expedition begins.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. That is exactly my point. eom.

[jonjensen]

26. driving while black

Police think driving while black is a legitimate reason to make investigative stop. In scottsdale arizona a minority police officer tape recorded air traffic on police radio on numerous occasions saying n-word entering north scottsdale a n-word free zone. Ferguson shows demonstrations and rioting works a lot better then liberal whining! As alway "da man" says please stop demonstrating and rioting because we can't ignore your demands until you stop and the business community get really angry. I get complaints when I write about the futility of liberal whining as the whiners complain if I can't whine I might have to go doing something to affect change and thats to hard!

[shawn703]

28. But there's no white privilege

No siree!