I Am Pissed Off Today

[Dirty Socialist]

I saw a want ad for a chemist. They want someone with a BS degree and the pay is only $14-$16 per hour. Then they have the balls to call it a "fantastic opportunity". For what, qualification for low income housing? How can they bullshit like this with a straight face?

[progressoid]

1. Yep. That's today's "middle class" wage.

Hate to say it, but that's pretty good wage around here. Of course, not a living wage.

[Ms. Toad]

47. For someone with a college degree in science? n/t

[liberalmike27]

70. Yea

Be thankful it isn't the minimum. But don't worry. If we don't get out there and vote every time for moving to the left, even if it is just a bit, we'll get there.

That's what the H1B visas are about, dragging in foreign tech workers, to reduce the pay of Americans in technical fields.

[Awknid]

76. Yep!

In architecture and engineering the same thing happens. It's no fun competing with Vietnam for wages!

[brewens]

2. I work for a blood center and that's about what we pay phlebotomists. I don't think a rookie just

out of the course gets quite that but someone with experience does for sure. I believe that is just like a six or eight week course.

[Skittles]

13. I donate platelets every 3 - 4 weeks

I don't know how long the course is but I can tell you it takes some experience for phelobomists to get really good!

[brewens]

20. I donate platelets too. They make it convenient for employees, sometimes letting us do

it on the clock, but I also come in on mornings when I have the day off. The ones that last always reach an acceptable level of skill. Hard not to doing it all day, every day. Then there are the real pros. You know the difference if you donate enough.

[Skittles]

24. 49 galllons!

THOSE VAMPIRES!!!

I often get the newer folk as they know I will return even if they screw up

[brewens]

25. Good going. If you're doing platelets, you won't get anyone very green. At least at my center,

they won't train you for that unless you are totally competant at drawing whole blood.

I let the rookies draw me when I was just donating whole blood.

They don't add platelet units up for gallon awards at my center. The keep whole blood, red cells and platelets seperate for any kind of award. I'm a little over two gallons in whole blood but closing in on 400 units in platelets. We're real close in total volume.

[Skittles]

44. a couple of decades ago I was a regular blood donor

then I made the mistake of asking, what are those people doing over there?

[brewens]

52. At our center, we have the edonor chairs. They are set up with a PC, screen and keyboard on a boom

and a one handed mouse and headphones. It's perfect for laying back and watching dvd's. I tend to doze off occasionally so it's hard to watch a whole movie. I prefer concert dvd's.

One drawback for me is that starting the afternoon before, I need to consume massed quantities of water to make everything go smoothly. It's a nice way to spend a morning, laying back and watching a concert but I donate triples which can take up to two hours. That puts me right at my bladder capacity after having downed all that liquid. By the time it's getting close to being over, I can't wait to get out of the chair!

[Skittles]

75. I watch DVDs when I give

it's very comfortable and I have a habit of falling asleep and you know how blood workers are - they like to make sure you're not passed out

[yeoman6987]

3. The Bachelor's degree is the new High School Diploma

Seriously, I have noticed the trend for awhile. A Master's is sorta special still but for how long. I do have a Master's but so does quite a few people now a days. I have no desire for a PHD, but may have to break down and start one soon. I am 45 and still have a lot of work years left so who knows what is in store down the road.

[Curmudgeoness]

4. Let's hope they get no responses.

My desire is to see shit jobs like this go wanting. It would make them have to offer more money to fill the positions. There is no way that people have put years into college to earn this kind of wage.

[msongs]

5. yeah its better people should be unemployed instead of taking a "shit" job paying $15 an hour? nt

[Curmudgeoness]

7. I understand that.

And I know that is the catch 22 that we find ourselves in. That is why I say it is my "desire" that no one would take that job. I know the realities.

But this is most certainly a shit job for someone with a BS.

[Veilex]

84. "But this is most certainly a shit job for someone with a BS."

Absolutely right. Any employer that requires a BS and fails to pay a living wage, is committing abusive hiring practices.

[Curmudgeoness]

86. There are a lot of "abusive hiring practices" out there.

As someone with a BS myself, I run into this more often than not.

[Thav]

74. Then they'll complain they can't find "Qualified Workers"

There's plenty of qualified workers, the qualified workers don't want to work for pencil shavings.

[Veilex]

85. In this case...

"Qualified Worker" equates to someone willing to work for beans.

[jimlup]

6. Dylan's "20 years of schooling and they put you on the day shift..."

We now have to add "at less than survival wages. "

[L0oniX]

8. $14-$16 per hour ...fitting for a diploma mill degree'd fake.

[n2doc]

9. And Yet, I'll bet they toss any applications from those over 40

Depending on the job, I would bet they will get lots of applicants.

I agree for the level of education the pay should be higher. But anything that can be outsourced to India and China has or will be, because their pay is even less. Thanks for nothing, Bubba.

[SmittynMo]

12. Welcome to the new middle class.

Blame the republicans. And if they get in control, it is sure to get worse. They don't want no stinkin wage increase for anyone.. Especially minimum wage. Real interesting that you reference age 40. 40 is the new 50. It use to be years ago that once you hit 50, no one looks at you if your unemployed. The job market is quite screwed up right now. And here I sit at 60, trying to find a job, and no one is interested.

[obxhead]

31. The shit employment we see is an equal opportunity with politicians.

Blame he republicans. Yes we can, but it really is only half of the story.

Dems marched in lock step to drive wages down.

[Efilroft Sul]

62. I'm sitting here at 47 in the same predicament.

My marketing and communication skills have literally made billions of dollars for previous employers and clients, but nobody seems to want the right blend of analytical skills, creativity, intuition, and experience. A screwed-up job market, indeed.

[LiberalEsto]

10. That's practically chump change for a chemist t

[SheilaT]

11. I can't know about that particular job listing,

but sometimes the person putting the listing out there has no clue what the job really ought to pay.

A friend of mine worked for six or seven years for a state employment agency, and he ran into that all the time, and would try to get the companies to understand that they will get what they pay for. Once he received a posting for a French language translator, and they were offering $10/hour. He can do French translation, and would have applied for the job himself except that he already knew that translation jobs more typically pay $25/hour. He explained that to them. They said, No, we think we'll get someone at this rate. No one ever did apply for that job, at least not through my friend's office.

[daredtowork]

49. But in a tight economy

People will apply for those positions when they are desperate: and thus companies will start to devalue skills, no matter what the cost in money, time, hard work, dedication, etc. to earn them.

Didn't Republican's just spend the last 30 years bringing this very state of affairs about?

[SheilaT]

54. Not necessarily.

Again, even in a tight economy the cheapskate company needing a French translator never got one.

[daredtowork]

58. not from that agency

They just went to another agency. I bet they got one in the end. They may have even tried to pawn off a bad translation.

I used to work at a bank that regularly relied on false customer call data because they had been processing that data in-house -but the person who had put together the program/"business automation" that handled that had left long ago, and probably sabotaged it on his way out. No one understood how it worked - lots of spaghetti code. So it remained unfixed. The boss just sent it upstairs as a "key metric" because he knew no one would ever check and it would never make a difference. Those numbers weren't even questioned by outside auditors!

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

66. Re not being questioned by outside auditors

I used to work as a computer systems administrator for a financial services company. Every year we were audited by the internal auditors, one of the big accounting firms (if I were to mention the name, you would all recognize it) and the FDIC (strictly speaking, we were a bank). I got the same internal auditors every year, but new people from the outside auditors and the FDIC every time. I used to sit down with those people and tell them how to audit a Unix system. Every year, I said the same thing to them, "If I wanted to put something over on you, it would be dead easy. I know how Unix works, and you don't."

I seriously considered writing a book on how to audit Unix systems, but I didn't. I should have.

[jonjensen]

14. Liberal whining

Whining sure does a lot of good doesn't it? I deliver pizzas ;but I don't whine I spend my time when I am not delivering pizzas on commission (not minimum wage as they won't hire old farts like for minimum wage only younger) I register hispanic voters(others too!) that will make change in wages look at what hispanic vote is doing for california and soon in texas arizona!

[DeadLetterOffice]

27. FYI - "liberal" isn't an insult here

Are you sure you're on the right board?

[NYC_SKP]

32. You really need to work on your messaging. "Whining" is pretty dismissive.

People are liable to try to have you banned if you don't try to be more considerate and careful in how you reply.

I agree insofar as we need to get out the vote and change things.

[obxhead]

33. Welcome to DU.

Hope the exit goes smoothly for ya.

[cui bono]

40. I find it ironic that you deliver pizzas.

Just sayin'.

[d_b]

50. lols

[aikoaiko]

15. For a 4-year degree 32,000 isn't so bad. Could have good benefits.

Better than nothing.

[cui bono]

41. Depends on where you live.

Plus, people should make that much with a high school diploma. There's no reason why they can't other than corporate greed and a bought and paid for govt.

[Android3.14]

59. Really? No other reason?

I've worked for start-ups where the pay was far less than the rest of the market for technical jobs just because that was all the company could afford.
At my own company, I pay everyone, including myself, the same wage, but it is less than equivalent jobs elsewhere, because the economy is so poor in our region that I cannot even charge a reasonable amount for my product. We have a profit sharing program, but the profit has been on the order of a couple of hundred dollars each month for years (or a loss), so the employment piece of the company pie, though the largest cost, still isn't large enough to pay any of us a good wage.

[cui bono]

80. Right. But why is the economy so poor?

I don't mean it so directly as I think you understood me to say.

I mean that overall corporate greed, by most of the biggest ones, is lessening our quality of life in this country as a whole. You would be able to charge a reasonable amount if people could afford it. Those people could afford it if they were able to get a decent wage. A lot of people work for a terrible wage at places owned by big corporations.

Those corporations and their CEOs don't pay their fair share of taxes so the working people pay a lot more in taxes than they should have to. Smaller businesses have to pay for employees health care when that should be taken care of by a single-payer system.

It all trickles down. Trickle down theory does work, just not in the way the GOP told us it did.

I'm not blaming small businesses, I'm looking at the big picture. We need a major overhaul in how this country operates and I don't see that happening any time soon. If it were going to happen it would've happened when a Dem became president after the disaster known as GWB, but that Dem chose to go along to get along and I don't know when we'll have that kind of enthusiasm for change again.

[Veilex]

88. I think it was kind of implied that established corporations were what was being referenced...

Not start ups... which are a dime a dozen.
I've got one too... though we're still at the volunteer stage.

[Veilex]

87. A four year degree SHOULD net about 55k

according to http://www.careerinfonet.org/finaidadvisor/earnings.aspx

[aikoaiko]

94. I believe those data include long-time workers with 4-year degrees...

....and not entry level positions.

[Veilex]

95. Hmmm... well BLS.gov

has a higher pay listing, and provides an across the board median... and that's before considering additional training such as OJT and apprenticeships.

http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

[nikto]

16. I am 63, and this is not the America I voted for or ever wanted

Last edited Mon Sep 1, 2014, 10:14 PM - Edit history (5)

I was the beneficiary of a great birth year---circa 1950s----A better, fairer (with all its injustices) era of American history,
due to The new Deal and a more liberal era of the country (watch some of the western shows from the
late 50s/early 60s for some of the flavor of that popular liberalism--Fine liberal values on display in many episodes of
Have Gun Will Travel, Bonanza, Gunsmoke, etc etc). Very different from today---because it was a different era.


With all it's problems,
It was a far better America, with far more level playing field, than it is today.

Back in the late 70s and 80s I could see cynical change coming, and voted against Reagan both times, and I oppose all corporatists (both Dem and GOP) as should all freedom-loving (and opportunity-loving) Americans.

But in 2014, amazingly, the country is still being re-made by THEM, not by people who feel as I do.

The New Deal is being totally rolled-back, as was forecast and seen by some folks way back in the 80s.

This economy has been partly made by the Clintons, and by Obama's bows to banks and corporations,
as well as by the GOP corporatists themselves. All those in power who made their deal with The Devil of American Big Business (and those who were susceptable to their dishonest sales pitches) were part of the cause of our present troubles.


Progressive political REFORM is the answer.

But America isn't listening.

Instead we are continuing to drive very fast in the opposite direction.


As pitiful as it may seem,
I sincerely, and with an aching heart,
apologize to you for all the members of my generation who voted for
the garbage-America we are getting now.

I am so sorry.




And for the perpe-traitors, I have only...

[warrant46]

29. Well you will get more of this if Hillary is

Elected--- but I doubt the Repuke Gerrymandered House will do anything more in 2016 than it is now

[area51]

69. +1 n/t

[Veilex]

89. +1 n/t

[mdbl]

35. Agreed!

Thanks for expressing how I feel so well.

[1StrongBlackMan]

56. I doubt many People of Color ...

have a similar nostalgic memory of the '50s being anything close to them being "a far better America, with far more level playing field, than it is today", even "with all its problems".

I hope you understand how dismissive that is. Maybe you should add the qualifier, "for white males" after "field", even if in parentheses.

[nikto]

99. OK, fair enough

I stand corrected.

[Enthusiast]

60. PLUS ONE, a huge bunch!

I'm about the same age. I view it the same.

[Bonhomme Richard]

72. We need a new Teddy Roosevelt. n/t

[dougg]

17. Is this the beginning of Breaking Bad?

It sounds familiar.

[Dirty Socialist]

19. Just Call Me Heisenburg

[Boom Sound 416]

18. I'm lost on this

[Dirty Socialist]

21. OK I Get It

They are trying to maximize profits by paying a BS degreed Chemist the wage of a typical 2 year degree person right out of school. However, they shouldn't call it a "fantastic opportunity". Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining!

[CaptCaribbean]

22. Brass Plated

In the theater of the ABSURD, all things are possible...

[toby jo]

23. Get your foot in the door and see what gives.

It's a resume point and a chance to rub elbows.

[brooklynite]

26. $31,000 a year

You don't indicate if experience is required, or if this is considered a "senior position". For an entry level job with a college degree, that might be marginally low, but I don't see it as a major issue.

[Dirty Socialist]

28. It calls for one year experience

I hear the average starting salary for someone with a two year degree is $35,000 per year.

[Veilex]

91. 2 yr degree is just over 40k/yr

at least according to http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

[Aerows]

46. What do you make a year?

I don't see asking you that question as a major issue.

[brooklynite]

53. My starting salary with a Masters Degree was $23,500 in 1984

(which with CPI inflation would be about $35,000 today).

Today I make 6 figures.

nb - this is a Government job.

[krawhitham]

63. $23,500 in 1984 would be $53,887 today using CPI inflation

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

[Thor_MN]

30. That would be more than double than what I started at about 30 years ago

My first job as a chemist paid $13K per year. I worked there for a year and a half before I found a better job. I did make $18K that first year with overtime.

[obxhead]

34. 30 years ago.

30 years ago you could buy a new sports car for 10k. You could by a nice house for 50k.

Today 32k hardly makes up the 1/3 of gross to rent an apartment.

[Thor_MN]

39. A Corvette was over $20K in 1985. Same for BMW 3 series

Then again, your idea of a sports car might be different... Maybe a Horizon TC3?

Not sure what you mean by your apartment comment, are you saying an entry level job should allow one to rent an $8K per month apartment? My first apartment now rents for about 60% more then what I paid for it.

[Reter]

42. A V8 Camaro was under 10k in '84

A Trans Am slightly higher. Those are clearly sports cars.

[Thor_MN]

77. Unless you wanted the Z28..

1985 $8,363 4cyl $8,698 V6 $8,998 V8 Z28: $11,060

These are BASE prices. Yes, you could have ordered a stripped down, bare bones sports car for a base price under $10K in 1985. Not a chance you would walk away from a dealer under $10K though. If you were looking at one on the showroom floor, it had options that would put it over $10K. Add AC and an AM/FM/cassette radio to the 8 cylinder and you are over $10K, without any dealer charges, tax, etc.

The point is, wages for entry level chemists suck, and have for a long time. There are good jobs out there, but it's a question of being in the right place, knowing the right people, or paying your dues at a crappy job to get one's foot in a door.

[lumberjack_jeff]

79. It is four times what I started at 34 years ago.

Meh.

I wish high school seniors were required to take a class called "expectation setting: what will college buy you?" followed by "critical math skills"

[Thor_MN]

81. There should be published ROI data by major...

While no one can predict the future, they could calculate a value to indicate the Return On Investment at the prevailing wages. Going hundreds of thousands in debt for an Art History major (I apologize to anyone who was an Art History major, you are always picked on...) that probably isn't going get one a job that quickly pays off the loans, does not make much sense.

[Laelth]

100. BLS says this:

Your $13K salary in 1984 (thirty years ago) had the buying power of $29,809.91 today. Given that you made $18K with overtime, that salary had the buying power of $41,275.26.

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

We live in a very different world now.

-Laelth

[Thor_MN]

102. And $15 an hour is $31,200. I don't understand your point?

We worked 60 hours a week for a month and a half to cover a manufacturing push. 3 chemists to cover 24/7 production. 2 12 hour shifts and 4 9 hour shifts. 1 day off a week, bookmarked by the 12 hour shifts. The manufacturing crews gave in before we did, but we were about ready to drop. We worked hard for that overtime.

Given that my then base salary equates to under $30K a year in today's dollars and the midpoint of the range given in the OP is over $31K, that suggests that things haven't changed that much or pay is slightly better now.

[Laelth]

103. I suppose so.

I think it's interesting that chemists, in particular, have seen flat (rather than decreasing) wages over the past 30 years. Most of us have seen decreasing buying power for our wages.

-Laelth

[Thor_MN]

104. Well, two data points don't necessarily paint the entire picture.

I was desperate for a job in chemistry then and worked for a lousy company for a year to get experience/something on my resume. There will always be companies willing to be bottom feeders (and people who will take the jobs.) They tend to be the farm clubs for the companies that pay well. The owners of the crappy companies can never figure out why they can't retain the good employees and are always training people. They now blame it on the work force, saying they can't find qualified candidates. The truth is, they pay crappy wages and people quit for better jobs as soon as the experience gets them into a better company.

A difference between now and then is that employers now scream bloody murder if they have to train someone. Back then, some training was assumed to be the norm. Now they want to pay entry level wages, but want experience, someone who can walk in and do everything from day one.

The other wild card is location. My job was in and around Minneapolis. MN. The same wage would be great in some locations and terrible in others. It paid my bills, but just.

[IrishAyes]

36. Makes me sick too.

Years ago I easily got that much for private duty LPN nursing, which didn't take nearly as much formal education as chemistry, etc. One of these days soon a hard rain's gonna fall.

[mackerel]

37. Where I live they pay medical coders more than $16 hour.

[Quayblue]

65. and I'm thinking about getting a coding certificate just for that reason

plus there are a lot of telecommuting coding jobs out there...a LOT

[mackerel]

96. Very true. Santa Barabara City College has an online program

is the standard in California. It's a good investment.

[Quayblue]

97. Thanks!

I just finished the application. Time for some changes!! This will be my 4th career change before 40. Sheesh, lol

[mackerel]

98. I wish you all the best.

[3catwoman3]

38. About 30 years ago, I reluctantly...

...applied for a head nurse position in a small pediatric unit in a very economically depressed area near the Air Force base where my husband had been assigned. I was an experienced pediatric nurse practitioner, and had just completed my master's degree. There were no nurse practitioner jobs anywhere in the area, and I didn't particularly want to be in hospital nursing again, but I was used to making my own money, and, being just married and having no kids, I knew I would go nuts if I just stayed home on the base all day and did Officers Wives" Club crap.

This was the only game in town. I was appalled at the pay - about $8/hour. The personnel director hastened to reassure me that there would be a differential for my master's degree. "Oh, good," I thought. That should bring it up to near $10.00. Boy, was I wrong. 50 cents! Seriously. I took the job, stuck it out for 6 of the most frustrating months of my career, and then bailed. I gave them a very generous 6 weeks notice. At 12:00 noon on my last day, they had not hired a replacement and sent over one of the nurses from the med-surg until so I could "orient her to pediatrics." I didn't even bother to try.

I had to have an exit interview. I had been going to keep my name tag as a souvenir of the experience. I was informed there would be a $2.00 charge if I did not turn it in. I gently laid it on the desk and left.

[lpbk2713]

43. Conservatives have been waging war on the middle class for decades.

They are almost at the point where they can claim victory.

[Veilex]

92. This ^^^

[Aerows]

45. Someone will be dumb enough to apply for it.

Nobody with any sense will.

[daredtowork]

48. The Age of the "Crafted Message"

I used to have a manager who would get temps to do her job by framing everything as an "opportunity" while she sat back and reduced her own job parameters to choosing the site for VIP luncheons. She was still getting away with it when I left the position, and as far as I know she is still getting away with it today - she probably even Peter Principle'd right on up the ladder!

Now that I think about it, she had some other "psyche out" tricks, too - like repeating things loudly around your cubicle if she wanted specific information or an impression passed down the grapevine. Also, when I showed her my resume so I could request a recommendation (because I was a temp looking for other jobs), she asked me to strike the word "marketing" because *she* did marketing. But...but...wasn't marketing implicit in all those "opportunities" she was giving me?

Anyway, that was one wasted year in the workforce in which I learned much about corporate politics - really any type of politics - and "crafted messages".

[DesertFlower]

51. i'm appalled. in NYC in '88

i was making $18.00 an hour doing legal word processing as a temp -- no benefits. then i took a full time job in a law firm. i made $28,000 for a 35 hour week -- time and 1/2 after 35 hours and double time on sundays and holidays. i also got a limo home if i worked till 7 pm. started with 4 weeks vacation the first year and 10 sick days.

and i don't have a college degree.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

55. I worked at a place once where they called the minimum raise an introduction....

You know, you prove yourself and after 6 weeks they put you up to the REAL wage.

Busted my ass for those six weeks and they raised it all right,...by 10¢ an hour.

[TRoN33]

57. Damn. I got job offer with HVAC certification and EPA Universal license, the starting pay is....

$14 per hour. I feel bad for guys with BS, MA, PhD, and other degrees that would get lower pay. I have greater respect for students from higher standard of educations and deserved to be paid much more.

America is now turning into plutocracy with system of preference and wink-wink. Graduated students need to have strongest and deepest connections to corporations and government in order to secure the job they worked in college for long time. I went to RIT once and found that I'm not fit for higher standard of education but I worked my ass off for HVAC and been looking for job since 2011. The world of trade job is well known for unfriendly to deaf people but I keep going on with applying for jobs after jobs. I finally found one and won't be starting til mid October for highly regarded skiing resort. I'm thankful of guys in there being welcomed and looking forward to have me there.

Students from higher standard of education deserve more.

[cer7711]

61. You Should Be Pissed Off!

Just one more indicator of how and why the hard-pressed working and middle classes of this country are getting ground down into peasantry.

Revolution is coming.

[alarimer]

64. That's about what you get for a BS in science.

It takes a Master's to get a decent job in a scientific field, at least above the level of technician.

I have an MS and make $37,000, only $6000 more than that job posting. It's true I work for the state and a low-paying one at that (NC). Technicians here make $28,000, less than your posting. Just food for thought.

[Dirty Socialist]

83. Sorry to Hear That

[B Calm]

67. Wondering what the CEO is making. . What's the name of the company?

[Helen Borg]

68. As Palin said it,

See it as a "stepping stone" to you real job! Really?

[BlueJac]

71. Makes no sense............

I'd join a union!

[Duppers]

73. link, please

I want to know who these scumbags are.

[lumberjack_jeff]

78. A college degree is the price you pay for a job out of the rain.

Pleasant, engaging, good paying; pick any two... or one if you can't afford a degree.

[Veilex]

82. But but but...

Class warfare is just a myth...

... or so they'd have you believe, while they wage-fix and eliminate benefits.

[Jasana]

90. Yeah and if they can't fill it with an American citizen...

they'll scream to the government that they need a H1b visa program.

(I'm pissed too. Pissed for all working people.)

[Veilex]

93. +1

[MannyGoldstein]

101. Here's your problem:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025516106