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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYou bellicose old men who never served can 'follow them to the Gates of Hell'
Just leave our kids out of your bullshit, opportunistic misadventures. And no matter how many times you bark 'As a nation we're united', we're not. Only the dimwitted don't notice you're running the same tired old play.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)being that he did serve. I cringed when Joe said it. I thought, what's this WE, Kemosabe? YOU'RE not going anywhere.
atreides1
(16,066 posts)What ever he had, he used up...as far as I'm concerned the man is about as useful as his buddy Lindsey Graham!
DavidDvorkin
(19,465 posts)TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)he did wear the uniform, and willingly put himself in harm's way (in a cockpit, anyway). That's it, I'm done. That's all the credit I'll ever give him, for anything.
niyad
(113,052 posts)and was flying an unauthorized mission when he crashed the last time and was taken prisoner?
DavidDvorkin
(19,465 posts)niyad
(113,052 posts)DavidDvorkin
(19,465 posts)niyad
(113,052 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)on each bomb dropped and that includes biden.
former9thward
(31,936 posts)That was just RW crap they tried to smear him with. He had nothing to do with the incident other than being there.
niyad
(113,052 posts)former9thward
(31,936 posts)former9thward
(31,936 posts)I call BS.
DavidDvorkin
(19,465 posts)in which he dropped bombs on innocent civilians cuts no ice with me.
I'll happy go Godwin on this. I was a baby in England during WWII when German pilots were dropping bombs on us and trying to kill us. I don't give them any credit, either.
Here ya go:
http://eyeblister.blogspot.com/2008/04/heinz-von-jaegermann-war-hero-political.html
niyad
(113,052 posts)been admirals.
DavidDvorkin
(19,465 posts)steelsmith
(59 posts)I have a deep seated hatred for the man, but if you call his torture in captivity "preferential treatment" you are sadly mistaken, he will carry the scars from his preferential treatment to the grave.
DavidDvorkin
(19,465 posts)niyad
(113,052 posts)he was a prisoner (although there was probably a reason other prisoners called him "songbird" . it was in reference to his entire friggen' career.
JEB
(4,748 posts)has no credibility. Senility stuck on warmongering. Can't remember his way off stage.
Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #1)
Post removed
Sopkoviak
(357 posts)Or I'm sure he would have gone.
And at least one of his sons, if not both, served.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Your gettin' in the way of the outrage!
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)He received 5 deferments before being classified 1-Y for asthma.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)must marginalize outrage!!!
merrily
(45,251 posts)His sons made their own choices.
Mind you, I am not saying that Biden should have enlisted. I am saying that I don't think receipt of a draft notice during the Vietnam War signified how willing he was to fight a war himself.
Sopkoviak
(357 posts)1st of all not everybody was subject to the draft.
2nd only those who ran out of other deferments would be classified 1A and ordered to report for a pre-induction physical. If that physical was passed you would receive a draft notice.
Greeting, you are hereby ordered to report for induction.
You then reported for an induction physical.
This is when you pulled out all the tricks and tips. Swallow tinfoil, crap your pants, load up on sodium and hope to raise your BP etc. and so forth.
I fooled them all and enlisted in the USAF right out of High School.
The classifications were
Class Categories (19481975)
1-A Available for unrestricted military service.
1-A-O Conscientious objector available for noncombatant military service only.
1-C Member of the Armed Forces of the United States, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or the Public Health Service. (Enl.) Enlisted. Member who volunteered for service, (Ind.) Inducted. Member who was conscripted into service, (Dis.) Discharged. Member released after completing service. (Sep.) Separated. Member released before completing service.
1-D Members of a reserve component (Reserves or National Guard), students taking military training (ROTC), or accepted Aviation Cadet applicants (19421961).
1-D-D Deferment for certain members of a reserve component or student taking military training.
1-D-E Exemption of certain members of a reserve component or student taking military training.
1-H Registrant Not Subject to Processing for Induction. Registrant is not subject to processing for induction until a draft is enacted. All current registrants are classified 1-H until they reach the age of exemption, when they then receive the classification of 5-A.
1-O Conscientious objector to all military service. A registrant must establish to the satisfaction of the board that his request for exemption from combatant and noncombatant military training and service in the Armed Forces is based upon moral, ethical or religious beliefs which play a significant role in his life and that his objection to participation in war is not confined to a particular war.
1-O-S Conscientious objector to all military service (separated). A registrant separated from the Armed Forces due to objection to participation in both combatant and noncombatant training and service in the Armed Forces. The registrant is still required to serve in alternative service.[59]
1-S (H) Student deferred by statute (High School). Induction can be deferred either until graduation or until reaching the age of 20.
1-S (C) Student deferred by statute (College). Induction can be deferred either to the end of the student's current semester if an undergraduate or until the end of the academic year if a Senior.
1-W Conscientious objector ordered to perform alternative service.
1-Y Registrant available for military service, but qualified only in case of war or national emergency. Usually given to registrants with medical conditions that were limiting but not disabling (examples: high blood pressure, mild muscular or skeletal injuries or disorders, skin disorders, severe allergies, etc.). Class was discontinued in December 1971 and its members were reclassified as 4-F.
2-A Registrant deferred because of civilian occupation (non-agricultural).
2-B Registrant deferred because of occupation in a war industry: (Defense contractor or reserved occupation).
2-C Registrant deferred because of agricultural occupation.
2-D Registrant is a divinity student. Deferment lasted either until graduation or until the registrant reached the age of 24. Exemption was created in December 1971. Previously considered part of Class 4-D.
2-S Registrant deferred because of collegiate study. Deferment lasted either until graduation or until the registrant reached the age of 24. Exemption was discontinued in December 1971.
3-A Registrant deferred because of hardship to dependents.
3-A-S Registrant deferred because of hardship to dependents (Separated). Current serving member or registrant undergoing induction separated from military service due to a change in family status. The registrant's deferment can last no longer than six months, after which they may re-file if the hardship continues to exist.
4-A Registrant who has completed military service.
4-A-A Registrant who has performed military service for a foreign nation.
4-B Official deferred by law.
4-C Alien or dual national.
4-D Minister of religion, formally ordained by a recognized religion, and serving as a full-time minister with a church and congregation.
4-E Conscientious objector opposed to both combatant and noncombatant training and service. Alternative service in lieu of induction may still be required.
4-F Registrant not acceptable for military service. To be eligible for Class 4-F, a registrant must have been found not qualified for service in the Armed Forces by a Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) under the established physical, mental, or moral standards. The standards of physical fitness that would be used in a future draft would come from AR 40-501.[60]
4-G Registrant exempted from service because of the death of a parent or sibling while serving in the Armed Forces or whose parent or sibling has Prisoner of War or Missing In Action status.
4-T Treaty Alien.
4-W Registrant or conscientious objector who has completed alternative service in lieu of induction.
5-A Registrant who is over either the age of liability (26) or (where applicable) the previous deferment age of liability (35)
merrily
(45,251 posts)taken very literally? That I meant infants, elderly men and women, the President, the First Lady, the First Family, disabled men and women and on and on?
Come on.
Obviously, the point was that Biden's getting a draft notice said nothing at all about his willingness or desire to fight a war himself.
C Moon
(12,208 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)So I enlisted in the Air Farce.
Autumn
(44,980 posts)at least I hope he has decided not to.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)hook, line, and sinker.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)atreides1
(16,066 posts)Just like those men who fought against the British, over 200 years ago.
Because the defense of this country is the responsibility of all Americans not just those wearing a uniform...it's about time we all pitched in!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Please see Reply 69.
Defend the country? Which nation declared war on the US? Which nation's army invaded? A band of rogue thugs behead two people and that is not cause to hunt down the killers but to start a fucking war against some nation or other-how many nations this time, btw? And call it defending our country? Are you kidding me?
Any idiot can start a war on feeling provoked and macho and powerful because of other people's kids and other people's money
And then what? Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan? How did all that work out? Besides creating more hatred against us and fueling creation of Al Qaeeda Iraq and Isis, that is, and costing untold lives limbs and minds on all sides, how did all that work out?
It takes brains, though, to avoid going to war just because you think you can.
Hippo_Tron
(25,453 posts)They're not an existential threat to us, end of story.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Please lay out any possible series of events that could lead to their flag flying over DC?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Get a grip, ISIS isn't going to cross the ocean and launch a military invasion.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Return to follow orders here also. Let's see, have we had an attack on one of our military bases? Yep
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)This is absurd theatre, there is exactly zero chance of an entity like ISIS waging a campaign of that scale. Even the USSR would have had difficulty and there is no comparison between the USSR and ISIS in terms of capability.
Glorified terrorists and insurgents, easily dealt with by normal counter-insurgency methods and containment via regional actors.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Not absurd theatre in the least. Those who bury their heads in it will not happen here, no they will not cross the oceans, etc, no, this will not be the deciders when we take a stand.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)Lemon. Wet. Good
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)eleventy!111
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)Jesus, what has happened to this place?
neverforget
(9,436 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)They can't even keep their flag up in Mosul, you think that lumpy-looking thing is going to be hanging anywhere in DC? How? Only way I see that happening is someone running it up a flagpole as a prank.
They're cranky mujahids, not wizards. Learn the difference.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)Knocking is polite!
merrily
(45,251 posts)Many attacks on USians prior to 911, then 911 and then the Marathon bombings.
And, yes, I feel the same.
Which war from Korea to Afghanistan would you recommend we emulate this time?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Assad and he brutal himself.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,682 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd & thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Autumn
(44,980 posts)I think he has had a cheney transplant.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)hell, just like Cheney and all Cheney's predecessors in office did.
I hope this is only a politician bloviating.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)I know that doesn't help the MIC, but maybe it's time they eat their peas...
merrily
(45,251 posts)beheaded, simply because they were USians in the Middle East covering a huge news story and therefore relatively easy pickings for some group there or the other.
As far as what Biden said, he's a politician, frustrated by something that happened during a Democratic administration, speaking for the applause.
On 911, Bush said he wanted Ben Laden dead or alive. Later, he said something like, "I don't really care."
I'm saving both my anger and my admiration for deeds. Words, not so much.
Shivering Jemmy
(900 posts)enough for me.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Should we amend the Bill of Rights first, or just continue pretending it doesn't limit the federal government the way it does?
tnlefty
(16,529 posts)my outrage to make me want to go and bomb someone: the 'moderates' that McCain had his pic taken with are on film beheading people, sometimes on the sidewalks of busy streets, the Saudi's behead people in public, and according to a human rights group they're at 30 for the month of August, Chechnyan's are notorious for their beheadings, as are others...I'm just not so sure who I should more pissed at to give up my sons for.
Yes, one of my sons could go there!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)over there.
However, I would settle for investigations, prosecutions and convictions followed by the seizing of all their blood money and other assets.
ISIS is their creation. So was Al Queda. It needs to STOP.
I get the impression that Obama is not too enthusiastic about getting involved there but I am certain he is being pushed hard by the Neocons. They are pressuring him to restart that war. He needs the people's support in order to be able to resist them.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Not only did our actions give rise to them, but they used our own arms against us.
"Your tax dollars at work!"
Ben Laden has been quoted as saying that he resolved to repay us in kind when he saw the blood of children running in the streets of Lebanon. (And Lebanon, not Iraq, was the first democracy in the Middle East.) Iran hated us because we supported the Shah. We can't stand certain beheadings, but ignore others. We take down Saddam, but negotiate TPP with the Sultan of Brunei.
If you think about it more than five minutes, you could hurt yourself.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)think people would find it hard to forget the horrors we inflicted on those unfortunate people, the white phospherous in Fallujah, the rows of dead babies, so innocent, bloody, or that ghostly grey color caused by the burning of WP.
You can hurt yourself thinking about it, the brutality of it all and then we act SHOCKED when we see the brutality of others. They hypocrisy is simply stunning.
merrily
(45,251 posts)It's a matter of having spent blood and treasure with the outcome being to put our own selves in even greater danger than we were in on 911. And for what? Who benefited? Our troops? Their loved ones and supporters and caregivers? Our treasury?
Main Street? Or Halliburtion, Blackwater, Bechtel and Wall Street? The kind of people who want government benefit after government benefit for themselves, but don't want to pay taxes? Are they a reason to lose lives, limbs, minds and treasure?
Even if we were legally and morally justified to infinity, the simple fact remains that are not good at these kinds of wars or at nation-building. You can't support dictators, then bomb, then win hearts and minds. If you can, then we haven't yet learned how.
What is it going to take before people get that war whoops are not the answer, at least not until we know what step 2 is? And the last step? Is the endgame going to be occupation forever, or withdraw and watch everything fall apart and return? In how many nations? At what cost?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)deutsey
(20,166 posts)It's all a matter now of which new circle of Hell we'll follow them to.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Having once served in uniform confers no claim on anyone else's blood.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Raffi Ella
(4,465 posts)We already went to the Gates of Hell, that's why they're open now. Prosecute the War Criminals that opened them, then we'll talk.
Sopkoviak
(357 posts)"The Iraq War Resolution" AKA the "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002" won't you?
That would be quite the large trial.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Numbers of the dimwitted grow by the day.