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madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 09:29 PM Sep 2014

We have allowed ed reformers to say weird untrue things about teachers and students.

And at many forums when we explain that their policies are wrong, we are told that everyone knows public schools are failing. Not true.

We are told that teachers have not been putting students first, so the reformers needs to step in and take over. Not true.

We have allowed this commentary to go on for too long. It's propaganda but it's gone on so long and so effectively that teachers are made to sound petty when they disagree. Public schools have not been failing, though there are some which need more resources to cope with the problems they face.

Most teachers are not "bad" or "lazy", most teachers are there because they care for the students and their needs.

Then there is the all pervasive meme that all students can succeed at the same level. Teachers have always been able to give students a chance at an even playing field, a chance to reach their highest potential. They can do that for students if they have resources to do so. It can't happen if policies continue to give tests which will be failed by many just because they are not able to take a test at that level....then after giving those tests they take away resources and give them to charter schools or private schools for vouchers.

The very latest unbelievably scary thing that Arne has said is that he thinks all students can succeed if they are given honor level classes and tests to prove they can do it. Hey snap your fingers, wave your wand...and suddenly no more below level students. That's a very faulty premise.

For some reason people find that stance of Arne's compelling....just push special needs students until they get it. It's like part of the remaining foolishness pushed by the zero tolerance believers.

Not every child will behave alike, not every child will or is able to do work at higher levels. This country was built on the virtue of individuality. People succeeding at different things, on different levels, having different abilities.

Imagine the harm being done to a child who has to struggle to perform life's everyday activities. Imagine the sense of failure that will be instilled.

The new policy of the US Department of Education is that no longer special needs children will be given modifications at test-taking time.

I asked how we let the reformers so this far, but I really do know the answer. If George Bush, whose policy this basically is, had tried to carry it this far....Democrats would have at once become the opposing party.

But now it is a movement supported by both major parties, and teachers have become the enemy.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We have allowed ed reformers to say weird untrue things about teachers and students. (Original Post) madfloridian Sep 2014 OP
K&R.... daleanime Sep 2014 #1
It's like they studied the Finns, whose education system is very successful... immoderate Sep 2014 #2
Good point...just the opposite. madfloridian Sep 2014 #4
k&r Starry Messenger Sep 2014 #3
Right wingers lie constantly, about every issue, and get away with it. Doctor_J Sep 2014 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Enthusiast Sep 2014 #15
You are precisely fucking correct. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #16
"and get away with it" FiveGoodMen Sep 2014 #28
The original charter school concept has been completely corrupted. Hissyspit Sep 2014 #6
We are not supposed to notice. madfloridian Sep 2014 #14
Alas, I fear you answered your own question, madfloridian RufusTFirefly Sep 2014 #7
And therein lies the conundrum, er, strategy. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #13
We have let them tell us schools are failing, that teachers don't care about kids. madfloridian Sep 2014 #21
As a Special Education teacher evemac Sep 2014 #8
Exactly right. Staffings, diagnoses, IEPs...they can not just be ignored. madfloridian Sep 2014 #10
knr, two children here and Very Very Different needs ... slipslidingaway Sep 2014 #9
Agree with that. madfloridian Sep 2014 #18
I think that too many turn a blind eye when their team is in power ... slipslidingaway Sep 2014 #31
Bookmaking for Later mckara Sep 2014 #11
Thank you, Madfloridian. They want the money. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #12
Exactly. They want the money. madfloridian Sep 2014 #22
Big city Democrats need to get a clue. Enthusiast Sep 2014 #23
Oh yeah, we go into teaching for the big bucks. YOHABLO Sep 2014 #17
.... madfloridian Sep 2014 #24
Hi MadFloridian Chiquitita Sep 2014 #19
Good to see you. Powerful piece of writing. Love this part about standards. madfloridian Sep 2014 #20
I am so worried about this and most especially at what the educational platform will look like Jefferson23 Sep 2014 #25
the tests sets our children up to fail questionseverything Sep 2014 #26
That is how it works. madfloridian Sep 2014 #29
way back before Obamas first term. They set this up. Remember all the states saying how much it cost Sunlei Sep 2014 #27
..... madfloridian Sep 2014 #30
 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
2. It's like they studied the Finns, whose education system is very successful...
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 09:37 PM
Sep 2014

and made a point of doing just the opposite.

--imm

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
5. Right wingers lie constantly, about every issue, and get away with it.
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 10:07 PM
Sep 2014

As for the current situation, the appointment of Arne Duncan was clue #1, and his declaration that it was OK for RI to fire all of the teachers was clue #2 that he was part of the "kill public schools" movement. His first CoS is now the mayor of Chicago and is trying to do away with the CPS. Then of course there is Race To The Bottom, another of his pet initiatives.

I am pretty sure at this point that Obama was put in the White House to enact far right corporatist policies that no Republican would have gotten away with. There is the education profitization that you mention, and Heritage Care which is now here to stay, saddling us with the worst, most expensive health care in the world, forever. That's two huge pots of money that he's handed to the 1% during his term. I believe that once the Repukes take the senate in November, he will use that as an excuse to give the hyper-rich the third big pie - Social Security. And the rest of the DC Dems who matter (not Sanders and Warren and Brown, but Reid and Pelosi and so forth) won't say a word about it.

Response to Doctor_J (Reply #5)

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
16. You are precisely fucking correct.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 12:26 AM
Sep 2014

There are a handful of Good Democrats.

Of course the alternative is fucking horrible. That's their only job—be horrible. They have done an excellent job of it.

This was a slow motion coup. A merger of corporate power, organized crime, government and the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus ever devised by mankind.

Listen to this. You will feel better. Just try it.

Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
6. The original charter school concept has been completely corrupted.
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 10:47 PM
Sep 2014

And somehow we're not supposed to notice that.

The original reasons for teacher tenure have been completely ignored and demonized.

And somehow we're not supported to notice that.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
7. Alas, I fear you answered your own question, madfloridian
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:40 PM
Sep 2014

"If George Bush, whose policy this basically is, had tried to carry it this far....Democrats would have at once become the opposing party."

That's the beauty of our current President. He can push Bush's policies without resistance from our own party.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
13. And therein lies the conundrum, er, strategy.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 12:15 AM
Sep 2014

How long will it take for Democrats to wake up and acknowledge what happened to us? Geez.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
21. We have let them tell us schools are failing, that teachers don't care about kids.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 11:29 AM
Sep 2014

And that propaganda has worked so well many DUers believe it. Yes, you are right. This administration has no opposition to these corporate policies.

But we are not supposed to notice.

evemac

(132 posts)
8. As a Special Education teacher
Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:58 PM
Sep 2014

This confounds me. Children who are in special education have qualifying conditions determined by copious testing by a licensed psychologist that show deficiencies academically (learning disabled) or otherwise (OHI..other health impairment) which impact their performance at school. For some, it's hard just doing their expected day to day activities in school. They may do better with accommodations and/or modifications to the curriculum, but many of these students still struggle with standardized tests. I think it's shortsighted and frankly, cruel. Why have special education at all if it ultimately isn't taken into consideration at the end of the day?

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
10. Exactly right. Staffings, diagnoses, IEPs...they can not just be ignored.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 12:05 AM
Sep 2014

What Arne Duncan is pushing now is potentially very dangerous to special education.

I liked this statement from the Dallas Morning News..at the link. He urged people to read Diane Ravitch's blog.

You’ll learn the depth of feelings out there in the trenches whenever the high sheriffs pronounce a new push in the name of “accountability.”


High Sheriffs indeed.


slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
9. knr, two children here and Very Very Different needs ...
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 12:04 AM
Sep 2014

one exceeds at almost all levels, the other struggles and has done well, but with more intervention.

We all have different skill levels and attributes, not everyone can advance according to the same standards.

If we want our country to thrive then we need to try and lift every boat ... and that includes those who need a bit more help.

We are all not cut from the same mold.







madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
18. Agree with that.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 01:36 AM
Sep 2014

My kids different as night and day in so many ways. I wonder why more people are not outraged at Arne's new tactics. Maybe they are just not aware.

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
31. I think that too many turn a blind eye when their team is in power ...
Tue Sep 9, 2014, 10:46 PM
Sep 2014

it is unfortunate that issues are not debated/defended as strongly as the party line



Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
12. Thank you, Madfloridian. They want the money.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 12:12 AM
Sep 2014

Education is just like the rest. They want to privatize anything that will profit this group of miscreants. It's little different than privatizing the Iraq War and the USPS. They want the money in private hands so they can steal it. It's clear.

It's corruption from sea to shinning sea.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
22. Exactly. They want the money.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 11:41 AM
Sep 2014

Now the charter schools are even incorporating real estate deals in their get rich schemes.

Charter School Gravy Train Runs Express To Fat City

From Forbes 2013:

Lest you get the idea charter schools are a “Republican” thing, they’re also favored by big-city Democrats. This summer, 23 public schools closed for good in Philadelphia — about 10% of the total — to be replaced by charters. Charters have a history in Washington, D.C., going back to 1996.

And they were favored by Arne Duncan when he ran Chicago Public Schools. Today, he’s the U.S. secretary of education. In 2009, Duncan rolled out the Obama administration’s “Race to the Top” initiative, doling out $4.4 billion in federal money to the states — but only to those states that lifted their caps on the number of charter schools.

Too bad the kids in charter schools don’t learn any better than those in plain-vanilla public schools. Stanford University crunched test data from 26 states. About a quarter of charters delivered better reading scores, but more than half produced no improvement, and 19% had worse results. In math, 29% of the charters delivered better math scores, while 40% showed no difference, and 31% fared worse.

....“In the past two decades,” Reuters reports, “much of the investment has gone into commercial real estate projects, like luxury hotels, ski resorts and even gas stations. Lately, however, enterprising brokers have seen a golden opportunity to match cash-starved charter schools with cash-flush foreigners in investment deals that benefit both.”

Chiquitita

(752 posts)
19. Hi MadFloridian
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:24 AM
Sep 2014

Left DU for while, but so good to come back and see you are on!

My son's English teacher wrote this killer piece for WaPo on the topic... this is the kind of fighting that inspires; just calling reform what it is, instead of standing politely by.

Seven things teachers are sick of hearing from school reformers

http://wapo.st/1yyVRBu


Teachers, acting from their socialization into the profession but also as a result of fear and intimidation, are far too likely to stay quiet about harmful practices school reformers are imposing on classrooms. It’s past time for teachers to stand up for themselves and their profession. In that spirit, here’s a list of things reformers should quit saying to teachers because they are wrong-headed. This list is not exhaustive, but it is a start.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
20. Good to see you. Powerful piece of writing. Love this part about standards.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:56 AM
Sep 2014
2. Don’t talk to us about the importance and rigor of the standards.

I teach high school English, and I can tell you that language arts standards, whether the current Common Core Standards or some other set of standards, are neither rigorous nor non-rigorous. Everything depends on what individual teachers actually do with them.

Furthermore, language arts standards simply describe an assumed, conventional set of behaviors that competent readers and writers are expected to display. But though a competent and hardworking student may incidentally do what the standards describe, displaying certain literate behaviors is not the same as seriously and conscientiously engaging texts and writing.

I work very hard to ensure that students do not simply go through the motions of studying literature and writing, even though going through the motions is usually enough to ensure good test scores. I require that they take the texts and assignments seriously and learn something important from them beyond what the standards specify. All of it is standards-based, not because I try to make it so, but because the Common Core language arts standards are so general that just about any assignment can be interpreted and defended in terms of the standards. Two teachers can teach the same standard using different texts, different methods, and with different purposes, giving students radically different experiences.In essence, that means the standard, ostensibly the same in both cases, is internally incoherent, and in that sense non-standard. “Standards-based” is a meaningless criterion for high school language arts lessons.


Thanks for sharing. The reformers who know very little about the minds of children and how to education them are doing great harm right now.

There is nothing wrong with standards, but there is too much wrong with requiring ALL students...special ed or not...to take and pass the same test.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
25. I am so worried about this and most especially at what the educational platform will look like
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 02:41 PM
Sep 2014

in 2016.


K&R

questionseverything

(9,646 posts)
26. the tests sets our children up to fail
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 02:54 PM
Sep 2014

when our collective children fail the tests...our public schools are defunded

charter schools then receive the funding but do not have to "take" all students....they can pick and chose

what happens to the kids not "chosen" by the charter schools?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
27. way back before Obamas first term. They set this up. Remember all the states saying how much it cost
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:03 PM
Sep 2014

how much education costs per child, per year?. Then came the vouchers, where a private school can take away public school tax money. The private for profit school can 'cherry pick' kids and charge the parents more, for even more profits.

Private, 'for profit' did the same thing for prisons, to grab-up much state and federal taxpayer money.

'For profit' middlemen are what ruined public schools, took away teacher pay, took away enough state money to make some states broke from 'for profit' prison contracts.

IMO, basic American benefits (including our prison systems & health care) should not be 'for profit' and need to be declared unconstitutional.

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