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nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 08:08 AM Sep 2014

Victoria Nuland in 2013: "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine..."



@7:30 --"Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations," she said. "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."-- Victoria Nuland

"Assist Ukraine"


"Fuck the EU" -Assistant Sec of State Victoria Nuland

Nuland’s husband is historian Robert Kagan, Council on Foreign Relations member, and co-founder of the think-tank "Project for the New American Century" (PNAC).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

$5 billion for Ukraine, Zero for Detroit

Do you know anyone that will benefit from spending $5 Billion in Ukraine?
71 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Victoria Nuland in 2013: "We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine..." (Original Post) nationalize the fed Sep 2014 OP
... SidDithers Sep 2014 #1
rude n/t Enrique Sep 2014 #3
Victoria Nuland is quite possibly the most powerful woman the earth has ever known.... Cali_Democrat Sep 2014 #6
Her cookies have the power of tanks. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #11
"... to control the universe" - WITH COOKIES! That shows her true power. Imagine if Putin or Obama pampango Sep 2014 #12
And let's not forget the dastardly State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #32
But merited. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #9
So?...nt SidDithers Sep 2014 #34
Prosperous for who? newfie11 Sep 2014 #2
If you're insinuating that the US paid $5 billion to overthrow the Ukrainian government, please note Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #4
a decent analysis, but not fact-checking Enrique Sep 2014 #29
The argument that the US instigated a "coup" in Ukraine is indeed a conspiracy theory. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #31
the U.S. played a part in the change of power Enrique Sep 2014 #33
The US appeared to have some preferences as to who it liked to see in charge in Ukraine. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #38
Thanks for getting here with that first! freshwest Sep 2014 #39
Yawn. $5 billion over 23 years in exchange geek tragedy Sep 2014 #5
Yep, they were a major nuclear power for a while there. No denying that was a negotiated settlement. freshwest Sep 2014 #40
I know davidpdx Sep 2014 #69
I didn't see her handing out cookies to the protesters in Ferguson CJCRANE Sep 2014 #7
What would a State Department official be doing at a protest in Missouri? nt Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #8
Does the US have an embassy in Ferguson? geek tragedy Sep 2014 #10
Do (or did) you support OWS? CJCRANE Sep 2014 #13
Do you like the color yellow? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #14
Do you or did you believe that OWS CJCRANE Sep 2014 #15
Why are we talking about OWS in a Ukraine thread? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #16
My post above that you replied to pointed out the hypocrisy CJCRANE Sep 2014 #17
Ah, but you apparently left yourself an opening, so truedelphi Sep 2014 #53
Because the misdirection to Ferguson didn't work...nt SidDithers Sep 2014 #35
OWS had no demands. Not one. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #19
They had endless lists of demands CJCRANE Sep 2014 #21
Name 5 concrete policy demands. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #23
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City freshwest Sep 2014 #42
This Salon article has more details: freshwest Sep 2014 #44
Yeah, it was pretty obvious that it was only going geek tragedy Sep 2014 #45
"They had endless lists of demands.." EX500rider Sep 2014 #62
"had a right to have their demands met?" EX500rider Sep 2014 #61
Non sequitur. nt geek tragedy Sep 2014 #18
Not really. It's about supporting protests CJCRANE Sep 2014 #20
If a Russian apparatchik had handed out geek tragedy Sep 2014 #22
The military response came later, nothing to do with cookies. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #25
There was no military action until Russia geek tragedy Sep 2014 #26
They were already there. They have a huge base there. CJCRANE Sep 2014 #27
They were not allowed outside the military bases. As per a treaty they signed. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #28
Excellent point that is lost in the Putin Propaganda. freshwest Sep 2014 #43
And there is the false Kremlin talking point. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #30
"Putosphere"... SidDithers Sep 2014 #37
funny you mention it - the US actually don't "have" a base in Cuba reorg Sep 2014 #46
Let me get this straight: geek tragedy Sep 2014 #47
How does that negate the ultimate premise of what's being said regarding Crimea? Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #48
that same person has repeatedly denied that the vineyard saker is an anti-semitic hate site. geek tragedy Sep 2014 #51
The US does have bases in Okinawa, Japan. If and when the day comes that the Japanese pampango Sep 2014 #50
that's actually an interesting question reorg Sep 2014 #60
Actually the US DOES have a base in Cuba per the Cuban-American Treaty of 1903. EX500rider Sep 2014 #52
a "treaty" signed with an occupied country reorg Sep 2014 #63
Yes we freed them from Spain, how horrible of us.. EX500rider Sep 2014 #64
Well, I guess you won't complain then reorg Sep 2014 #65
Right, 'cause it's just the same... EX500rider Sep 2014 #66
no, the main difference is reorg Sep 2014 #67
You Do Understand, Sir, A Change Of Ownership Does Not Cancel A Lease? The Magistrate Sep 2014 #54
False dilemma. nt Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2014 #24
And Ferguson is not another country. freshwest Sep 2014 #41
Kick for Chevron Octafish Sep 2014 #36
Chevron KickBack- Glad to see you and so many other posters concerned nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #58
Wonder if Lawrence Summers' ilk will see some of the $5 Billion in Ukraine? Octafish Sep 2014 #59
This meme has been debunked so many times it isn't even funny. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #49
'Zombie Facts' Sir The Magistrate Sep 2014 #56
Recommend... KoKo Sep 2014 #68
no "meme" just facts. Foul Mouth Nuland says "we spent" $5b nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #70
$5 billion over two decades. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #71
i want some of those cookies JI7 Sep 2014 #55
well, it apparently went to buy off all those Ukranian Nazis who are terrorizing saints like putin.. joeybee12 Sep 2014 #57
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
6. Victoria Nuland is quite possibly the most powerful woman the earth has ever known....
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:10 AM
Sep 2014

I'm so thankful for DU.

Where would we be without the good folks here constantly exposing Victoria Nuland and her incessant desires to control the universe?

pampango

(24,692 posts)
12. "... to control the universe" - WITH COOKIES! That shows her true power. Imagine if Putin or Obama
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:35 AM
Sep 2014

could get their hands on those magic cookies. Either could take over the world just using chocolate chips.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
32. And let's not forget the dastardly State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:08 AM
Sep 2014

Who the pro-Russian crowd apparently hates with the heat of a thousands suns.

For, I don't know, giving press conferences?

It's bizarre.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
29. a decent analysis, but not fact-checking
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:03 AM
Sep 2014

that article has good information, but they are misleading when they claim to be fact-checking, and when they call the contrary analysis a conspiracy theory. It's not anywhere near as definitive as that.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
31. The argument that the US instigated a "coup" in Ukraine is indeed a conspiracy theory.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:05 AM
Sep 2014

One that can be easily debunked, given that what happened in Ukraine was not actually a coup.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
38. The US appeared to have some preferences as to who it liked to see in charge in Ukraine.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:34 AM
Sep 2014

Preferences are cheap. Action isn't. We have preferences in sports, politics, music, movies, etc. That alone doesn't go far.

However, there's been no evidence presented whatsoever that the US actively acted on those preferences in deposing Yanukovych. Given that Yanukovych himself actually left Ukraine on his own willpower (and took three days to casually pack up his most valuable possessions), the notion that there was a "coup" is pretty much thrown out the window.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
40. Yep, they were a major nuclear power for a while there. No denying that was a negotiated settlement.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 01:22 PM
Sep 2014

As for expecting people who aren't married to someone, never been in politics, I'm guessing those who demand that would go with many of the Tea Party populists, like Joe the Plumber. As if you'd want to hire him to work at your house...

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
69. I know
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:21 PM
Sep 2014

A certain group makes it sound like the $5 billion was given to them within the last year or two.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
7. I didn't see her handing out cookies to the protesters in Ferguson
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:11 AM
Sep 2014

or OWS.

It's strange how we support protesters abroad but squelch them at home.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
10. Does the US have an embassy in Ferguson?
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:32 AM
Sep 2014

DOJ is investigating the Ferguson PD, in case you missed it.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
14. Do you like the color yellow?
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:36 AM
Sep 2014

Do you enjoy pancakes?

Do you enjoy the croonings of Englebert Humperdink?

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
17. My post above that you replied to pointed out the hypocrisy
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:39 AM
Sep 2014

of our reactions to protests abroad vs at home.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
53. Ah, but you apparently left yourself an opening, so
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 04:28 PM
Sep 2014

This guy can hassle you endlessly.

Life is short, and luckily that guy can be put on "ignore."

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
42. Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 02:07 PM
Sep 2014
This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011

Translations: French, Slovak, Spanish, German, Italian, Arabic, Portuguese

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.


As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power.

We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.


* They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

* They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

* They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

* They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

* They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.

* They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

* They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

* They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

* They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

* They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

* They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

* They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

* They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

* They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

* They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.

* They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

* They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.

* They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

* They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

* They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

* They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

* They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

* They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.


Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.

Join us and make your voices heard!


*These grievances are not all-inclusive.

http://www.nycga.net/resources/declaration/

http://current.com/community/93480033_general-assembly-declaration-countdown-with-keith-olbermann.htm

Not concrete policy proposals, but a mission statement. I left them when Libertarians took over and told the youth to not vote, while at the same time pushing Tea Baggers to vote.

There also appeared to be an element of white privilege involved, as they demanded the right or freedom to take up the Commons for demonstrations, then were outraged at the brutal treatment by police, because they would not behave as the law allowed.

It was their behavior, not their skin color, that caused that, and they could have left the public spaces, but blacks cannot leave their skin color behind.

Blacks and minorities have been systematically treated with brutality by public and private powers for the fact of their skin color and not how they acted. OWS acted, as previous white protestors had, with the assumption of privilege under the same legal framework that denied others any freedom.

The words in the OWS Declaration gave me chills as white person, respecting the document written up by ancestral kin. Each of those great precepts were corrupted in order to enrich whites off the sweat of the brow of blacks and others. While I hold to the ideals there, I can't deny reality.

There was also too much of the *they* in their accusations. Government is not separate from the people but is composed of the ideas of those people who have many different beliefs and interests. The reason the corporatists are winning out in government is that they have a clear message for their followers who are not voting against their own interest as we accuse them of doing; they are instead, voting narrowly for their interests as individuals and principles and others be damned, so long as they get what they want. This is a blind spot among many who continue to marvel at why the world is leaning 'right.'

I submit that what OWS did after they left the national scene is fine if it has fusion qualities. But it was a media sensation and created, feted and was extinquished by the same media, and that is more like entertainment for supporters. There is more than one kind of addiction at work among us.

That they attacked the DNC platform on civil rights and corporate influence for which they had no counter to offer, and refused to do what was necessary to change it, did not ring true for those who seek change. Yet they are a vibrant culture in some areas, pushing Libertarianism, tapping into dissatisfied persons who have not worked in unity to affect large scale change with government.

They have siphoned off the vote but this has only led to more Tea Baggers in office creating misery and more feudalistic systems. They are seeking to find a niche to survive in that, abandoning civil government.

JMHO. I won't argue, as I've not noticed much rational discussion on OWS. I stated why I came to a parting of the ways. I also find fault with the list of greivances as well, as they were not new to most of us, and pointed the finger away from the people, who should be changing government to serve us and not allow the vacuum to be filled by the same corporate powers they accuse of so much trouble making. Too many of us cannot wait for their utopia. EOM.

P. S. More detailed piece at:

http://www.salon.com/2011/10/31/a_new_declaration_of_independence/

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
61. "had a right to have their demands met?"
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 02:13 PM
Sep 2014

Why would every protest group "have the right" to have their demand met?

Pro-gun group?
KKK group?
PETA group?
etc...

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
20. Not really. It's about supporting protests
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:43 AM
Sep 2014

as the legitimate voice of the people.

Should we encourage them abroad but stomp them out at home?

Should other countries get involved in supporting our protest movements?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
22. If a Russian apparatchik had handed out
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:45 AM
Sep 2014

cookies at OWS, that would not justify a US military response no.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
25. The military response came later, nothing to do with cookies.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:47 AM
Sep 2014

The Ukraine military shelled civilians in the East, that's well documented.

There are two sides to this conflict, it didn't just spring up spontaneously.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
27. They were already there. They have a huge base there.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:54 AM
Sep 2014

There was no military action in Crimea.

That blew up later in the other regions.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
28. They were not allowed outside the military bases. As per a treaty they signed.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 09:57 AM
Sep 2014

And that's exactly what they did, less than a week after Yanukovych left Ukraine.

It would be like saying our military can have free reign over all of Cuba because of our base in Guantanamo.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
30. And there is the false Kremlin talking point.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:03 AM
Sep 2014

The US has a base in Cuba. If it rolled tanks towards Havana, that would be an invasion.

Russian troops seized land that belonged to Ukraine. That is a military action and an invasion, regardless of what the Putosphere says.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
46. funny you mention it - the US actually don't "have" a base in Cuba
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:46 PM
Sep 2014

They are not welcome and their presence in Cuba is without the consent of the Cuban government since 1959.

The US send a yearly 4000 USD check, a sick joke in itself, but the Cuban government doesn't accept it. It is their land, but the US is staying there and even uses the place for outrageous crimes against humanity, the big bully which can afford military expenditures 320 times the measly amount Cuba's is spending.

So, what was it again you were saying about invasions?


REFLECTIONS BY THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF
THE EMPIRE AND THE INDEPENDENT ISLAND

... Since the triumph of the Revolution, the Revolutionary Government has denounced the illegal occupation of that portion of our territory.

On the other hand, since January 1st, 1959, the United States turned the usurped territory of the Guantanamo Naval Base into a permanent source of threats, provocation and violation of Cuba’s sovereignty, with the aim of creating trouble for the victorious revolutionary process. ...



http://www.granma.cu/granmad/secciones/reflexiones/ing-042.html
 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
47. Let me get this straight:
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:49 PM
Sep 2014

US forces stay on their base, per a legally binding treaty between the nations=invasion

Russian armed forces leave their bases, in blatant violation of their treaty, and use it to illegally steal land from Ukraine=totally not an invasion

That's the same logic that would lead a person to claim that those who believe Jews declared war on Germany in the early 20th Century aren't Jew-hating bigots.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,173 posts)
48. How does that negate the ultimate premise of what's being said regarding Crimea?
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:54 PM
Sep 2014

Namely, that the existence of Russian naval bases on the Crimean peninsula doesn't give the Russians carte blanche to send its troops into the entire peninsula, seize government buildings and Ukrainian military bases?

pampango

(24,692 posts)
50. The US does have bases in Okinawa, Japan. If and when the day comes that the Japanese
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 04:05 PM
Sep 2014

government does not renew the lease on the US bases in Okinawa, the US will have no right to use their military personnel there (after removing their identifying patches, of course) to take control of the entire island of Okinawa in order to maintain those bases in perpetuity.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
60. that's actually an interesting question
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 01:57 PM
Sep 2014

Japan and Germany are so-called "enemy states" mentioned in the UN Charter, which means that a UNSC resolution is not needed if any signee of the Charter, e.g. the US considers to take action against them. IOW it would be completely in line with the UN Charter if the US prevent a "reneal of aggressive policy" by Japan or Germany, say by way of taking control of the area where their military bases are located if and when the enemy states might want to throw them out.

Article 53

1. The Security Council shall, where appropriate, utilize such regional arrangements or agencies for enforcement action under its authority. But no enforcement action shall be taken under regional arrangements or by regional agencies without the authorization of the Security Council, with the exception of measures against any enemy state, as defined in paragraph 2 of this Article, provided for pursuant to Article 107 or in regional arrangements directed against renewal of aggressive policy on the part of any such state, until such time as the Organization may, on request of the Governments concerned, be charged with the responsibility for preventing further aggression by such a state.

2. The term enemy state as used in paragraph 1 of this Article applies to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory of the present Charter.

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter8.shtml

Another interesting aspect is your term "lease". As the Süddeutsche Zeitung informed its readers a while ago, the German government pays for about two thirds of all construction costs incurred by the American bases and a variety of other costs. They say Germany paid about 1 billion Euro in the last 10 years alone, while the 40,000 troops stationed here don't pay any taxes.

For the first 10 years, Germany had to pay for everything (4.5 billion DM yearly). After that, German had to pay part of the costs due to the NATO contract, and some murky agreements made in 1975. The used areas (with fences around them) are not "leased" by the US military, they are free: 53,870 ha (5798518541.4815 sq ft), 24,226 apartments.

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
52. Actually the US DOES have a base in Cuba per the Cuban-American Treaty of 1903.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 04:23 PM
Sep 2014
The Cuban–American Treaty is a lease of property, and consists of two documents. The first was finalized in February 1903, and the second finalized in July 1903.
The treaty stipulates that Republic of Cuba lease to the United States specific lands in Cuba, most notably the land that surrounds Guantánamo Bay, for the purpose of coaling and naval stations, for as long as necessary. The lease stipulates that the United States "shall exercise complete jurisdiction and control", while recognizing "the continuance of the ultimate sovereignty of the Republic of Cuba". Cuban vessels involved in trade will have free passage through the waters. The United States has the right to modify the waters as necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban%E2%80%93American_Treaty

Bad move on their part making it open ended and requiring both parties to dissolve.
But, what ya gonna do? Treaty is as treaty was written.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
63. a "treaty" signed with an occupied country
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 02:22 PM
Sep 2014
From: Encyclopedia of American Foreign Policy.

The Platt Amendment specified the terms under which the U.S. military occupation of Cuba would end and effectively relegated Cuba to the status of a U.S. protectorate.

http://www.fofweb.com/History/MainPrintPage.asp?iPin=EAFP338&DataType=AmericanHistory&WinType=Free


Might makes right.

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
64. Yes we freed them from Spain, how horrible of us..
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 02:29 PM
Sep 2014

....and wanted a naval base to coal ships from. What'd it cost us?

Spanish American War:

United States 2,910 dead

EX500rider

(10,835 posts)
66. Right, 'cause it's just the same...
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:42 PM
Sep 2014

Ukraine being a imperialistic power in decline with colonies around the world just like Spain was.....oh wait, it's not like that at all..

reorg

(3,317 posts)
67. no, the main difference is
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:04 PM
Sep 2014

that the Crimeans wanted to be liberated and become part of Russia whereas the Cubans had to be pressured with the threat of ongoing occupation until they finally capitulated and signed the damned paper which included the "lease" of Guantanamo.

In June 1901, Cuba succumbed to U.S. pressure and accepted the Platt Amendment, which secured the right of American intervention, restricted Cuba's conduct of foreign affairs, and gave the U.S. a naval base at Guantánamo Bay.

http://www.pbs.org/crucible/tl18.html

Though initially rejected by the Cuban assembly, the amendment was eventually accepted by a vote of 16 to 11 with four abstentions and integrated into the 1902 Cuban Constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platt_Amendment

The first vote: 24 no : 2 yes
the second vote: 15 no : 14 yes
the final vote, after the US had threatened to occupy Cuba until the Platt Amendment was accepted: 16 yes :11 no.

The Magistrate

(95,244 posts)
54. You Do Understand, Sir, A Change Of Ownership Does Not Cancel A Lease?
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 04:36 PM
Sep 2014

Last edited Fri Sep 5, 2014, 06:11 PM - Edit history (1)

If you rent an apartment under lease, and the building is sold, your lease is still binding on the new owner, and as long as you abide by its terms, no grounds exist for a new owner to break it. The same applies between nations; a change in regime does not erase treaty obligations, nor debts, nor lease of territory or other rights. Mr. Castro may say anything he wants about the base being occupied or a usurpation or fruit of use of force over a century ago; it does not alter the case.

The Guantanamo lease is legally binding, so long as the United States abides by its terms, which require it to maintain the property and pay a certain yearly sum. If the new owner ( new regime ) does not want to cash the checks, that is their business, and does not affect the terms or legitimacy of the lease.

Russia's use of its base in Crimea had terms as well, among which was one that military forces were not to leave the base without consultation with Ukraine's authorities, and their permission. When Russian forces moved off the base regardless, they invaded Ukraine. There really is no serious argument about this; it is black-letter law.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
41. And Ferguson is not another country.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 01:25 PM
Sep 2014

Additionally, the DOJ is going to tear the corruption apart bit by bit there.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
36. Kick for Chevron
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:32 AM
Sep 2014

Thank you for the heads-up, nationalize the fed. Odd how so many Democrats seemingly are unable to see how un-Democratic Empire and its sundry wars for profit are.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
58. Chevron KickBack- Glad to see you and so many other posters concerned
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:34 AM
Sep 2014

about the US spending $5 billion on a place they'll never visit.

Oh wait, there were only a few concerned with the $. A Billion here and a billion there, at least it isn't being borrowed. Oh wait, it is.

If the people don't care what happens to their money why should those that spend it? Maybe the ones that will have to deal with the consequences will care a bit more, or maybe not.

Thanks for giving a damn, Octafish. One of you makes up for at least a bakers dozen of the others.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
59. Wonder if Lawrence Summers' ilk will see some of the $5 Billion in Ukraine?
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:48 AM
Sep 2014

I know they're socialists, but...



Corporate corruption and academia: The Bush-Harvard-Enron connection

By Joseph Kay
wsws.org, 19 October 2002

EXCERPT...

One of these connections was to Harvard University, where Bush had received his MBA degree. Some months after Harken bought Spectrum 7, Harvard, together with the billionaire financier George Soros, poured money into Harken, which at the time was struggling to pay off loans to its main creditors, Bank of Boston and First City Bankcorp. First City agreed to refinance the loans, and, according to an article published in the Wall Street Journal on October 9, a key factor in the decision was the financial support provided by Harvard Management Corporation (HMC). HMC controls the university’s assets, valued at $20 billion.

Harvard quickly acquired a third of Harken’s stock. Between 1987 and 2000, representatives of the university held positions on the company’s board of directors, with seats on the executive and compensation committees. The university’s representatives were both heavily invested in the company personally, owning 10,000 shares of Harken each.

Harvard’s heavy investment in Harken is inexplicable except for the presence of Bush, who retained his position at Harken until 1993, when he became governor of Texas. Harken never sustained profitable operations, though it hoped to use Bush’s connections to improve its financial state. Over the next five years, HMC had to bail out Harken in order forestall a number of severe crises. HMC was controlled at the time by Robert Stone, an oil man and long-time supporter of the Republican Party and Bush’s father.

SNIP...

The deal has many similarities with the sort of “structured finance” arrangements that were made at Enron. The basic idea is to shift debt off of a company’s balance sheet in order to improve reported earnings and elevate share values. Such partnerships were an important component of the accounting gimmicks widely used by American corporations during the stock market boom of the 1990s.

SNIP...

Finally, there is Lawrence Summers, who replaced Rubin as treasury secretary in 1999. Kenneth Lay sent a gushing congratulatory note to Summers, who responded with a promise that “I'll keep my eye on power deregulation and energy-market infrastructure issues.” When Bush came to office, Summers left government to become president of Harvard University.

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2002/10/hark-o19.html



...Maybe one day socialism in the United States of America will extend to those not in the upper class.

PS: Thank you for the kind words, nationalize the fed! Same back at ya!
 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
49. This meme has been debunked so many times it isn't even funny.
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:55 PM
Sep 2014

For the sake of the anti-imperialist movement that grounds itself in facts, please stop repeating bullshit.

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
70. no "meme" just facts. Foul Mouth Nuland says "we spent" $5b
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:01 PM
Sep 2014

where did the money go, or don't you care?

This is absurd to borrow $5b and spend it a place no one will visit.

Of course if you're R. Hunter Biden it's pretty cool.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
71. $5 billion over two decades.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:06 AM
Sep 2014

And that's all I'm going to say, because I'm really getting tired of even bothering to respond to shit like this.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
57. well, it apparently went to buy off all those Ukranian Nazis who are terrorizing saints like putin..
Fri Sep 5, 2014, 06:19 PM
Sep 2014

unrec

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