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grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 03:37 PM Sep 2014

Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault

According to the prevailing wisdom in the West, the Ukraine crisis can be blamed almost entirely on Russian aggression. Russian President Vladimir Putin, the argument goes, annexed Crimea out of a long-standing desire to resuscitate the Soviet empire, and he may eventually go after the rest of Ukraine, as well as other countries in eastern Europe. In this view, the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014 merely provided a pretext for Putin’s decision to order Russian forces to seize part of Ukraine.

But this account is wrong: the United States and its European allies share most of the responsibility for the crisis. The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West. At the same time, the EU’s expansion eastward and the West’s backing of the pro-democracy movement in Ukraine -- beginning with the Orange Revolution in 2004 -- were critical elements, too. Since the mid-1990s, Russian leaders have adamantly opposed NATO enlargement, and in recent years, they have made it clear that they would not stand by while their strategically important neighbor turned into a Western bastion. For Putin, the illegal overthrow of Ukraine’s democratically elected and pro-Russian president -- which he rightly labeled a “coup” -- was the final straw. He responded by taking Crimea, a peninsula he feared would host a NATO naval base, and working to destabilize Ukraine until it abandoned its efforts to join the West.


....

Washington may not like Moscow’s position, but it should understand the logic behind it. This is Geopolitics 101: great powers are always sensitive to potential threats near their home territory. After all, the United States does not tolerate distant great powers deploying military forces anywhere in the Western Hemisphere, much less on its borders. Imagine the outrage in Washington if China built an impressive military alliance and tried to include Canada and Mexico in it.

.....

There is a solution to the crisis in Ukraine, however -- although it would require the West to think about the country in a fundamentally new way. The United States and its allies should abandon their plan to westernize Ukraine and instead aim to make it a neutral buffer between NATO and Russia, akin to Austria’s position during the Cold War. Western leaders should acknowledge that Ukraine matters so much to Putin that they cannot support an anti-Russian regime there. This would not mean that a future Ukrainian government would have to be pro-Russian or anti-NATO. On the contrary, the goal should be a sovereign Ukraine that falls in neither the Russian nor the Western camp.


MORE: http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141769/john-j-mearsheimer/why-the-ukraine-crisis-is-the-wests-fault
45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault (Original Post) grahamhgreen Sep 2014 OP
K&R LittleBlue Sep 2014 #1
Gee, what does Ukraine want? Isn't that relevant? Justice Sep 2014 #2
Likely, they don't want a protracted war between the East and West in their country. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #3
I bet you are right! emsimon33 Sep 2014 #4
Seems they are divided Cayenne Sep 2014 #9
Ukraine and Austria aren't the same country. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #5
Correct. William769 Sep 2014 #7
You don't like borscht, is all. Major Hogwash Sep 2014 #20
Finlandization. Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #6
Vietnamization, is more appropriate. Stop with the killing already. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #10
True. Russia needs to withdraw, Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #11
Not gonna happen. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #34
I know. Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #35
They need the buffer and the ports (Sebastapol). An easy fix is to offer a divided Ukraine. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #38
Wow. Straight out imperialism. What are you doing here? n/t Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #39
Informing. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #43
This post seems horribly ironic in light of #37. NuclearDem Sep 2014 #42
True. We never should have destabilized Ukraine to start with. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #44
True, IronGate Sep 2014 #30
The acts of Putin is Putin's acts, we can not sugar coat any of what he is doing by blaming NATO. Thinkingabout Sep 2014 #8
Strangely, our actions are ours as well. Our projection of force typically results in disaster. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #12
Two wrongs don't make a right. n/t Benton D Struckcheon Sep 2014 #36
Those who fail to learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #37
Yes because if it weren't for that, dear sweet misunderstood Putin wouldn't do anything mythology Sep 2014 #13
So a country that tortures, and starves granny for war is gonna make it all better? grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #14
Wait, Boom Sound 416 Sep 2014 #15
We're talking about the guy who has tactical nuclear warheads, and will use them:) grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #17
Putin ain't going to use tach nukes, IronGate Sep 2014 #31
Perhaps: grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #32
Any tach nukes used that close to NATO allies will impact those countries IronGate Sep 2014 #33
K+R nationalize the fed Sep 2014 #16
Have you read anything about Mearsheimer? Are_grits_groceries Sep 2014 #18
What the f#ck are we doing in Ukraine? Granny aint got no food. Daddy aint got a job. And Sis don't grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #19
Non sequiter. Are_grits_groceries Sep 2014 #22
Yeah but if we withdraw from all the Neo-Con nilesobek Sep 2014 #21
God forbid they do something intelligent;) grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #24
rec. KG Sep 2014 #23
The generals are prepping tactical nukes. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #25
bad link but I do not think NATO is prepping tactical nukes Duckhunter935 Sep 2014 #26
Russia is! (new link). These nukes are fired from artillery shells, Patriots will not help. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #29
Thank you, grahamgreen! Very important article. Octafish Sep 2014 #27
NP:) I can't belive people are falling for the neocon wars all over again:( grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #28
Cuban missle crisis in reverse. JEB Sep 2014 #40
I feel so bad for Vladimir Putin. Nye Bevan Sep 2014 #41
Feel bad for those in Gitmo proven innocent, still imprisoned. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #45

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
20. You don't like borscht, is all.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 05:04 AM
Sep 2014

Nyet, you say.
With impunity, no less!

Nyet, you say to the borscht.

But, I will bet dollars to donuts . . . you like vodka!!


Benton D Struckcheon

(2,347 posts)
6. Finlandization.
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 03:49 PM
Sep 2014

No need to write a big article when a single word will do.
Also, no one thought of Russia as a threat. This is entirely a result of Putin's chauvinist nationalism, and his revanchist actions. He'll get his wish, and then everyone will do whatever they can to avoid doing business with Russia. Except the Chinese, who will turn it into a colony.

 

IronGate

(2,186 posts)
30. True,
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 03:11 PM
Sep 2014

Russia and their lackey's need to stop the killing and Russia needs to withdraw it's combat troops.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
8. The acts of Putin is Putin's acts, we can not sugar coat any of what he is doing by blaming NATO.
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 04:03 PM
Sep 2014

It would like blaming vehicle accidents on AAA.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
12. Strangely, our actions are ours as well. Our projection of force typically results in disaster.
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:17 PM
Sep 2014

But s highly profitable

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
13. Yes because if it weren't for that, dear sweet misunderstood Putin wouldn't do anything
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:28 PM
Sep 2014

Sure there's his policies on gay rights, the fact that his government has assassinated and imprisoned those who oppose him and his government has committed war crimes in Chechnya. But if it weren't for the west, he'd never have done any of that.

Given Putin's actions, it's no surprise that Ukraine would want to align with the west.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
14. So a country that tortures, and starves granny for war is gonna make it all better?
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:31 PM
Sep 2014

I don't think so....

 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
15. Wait,
Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:59 PM
Sep 2014

Are we talkin about the guy who president then prime minister and now president?

Hmmmm. I think it's him.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
32. Perhaps:
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 03:28 PM
Sep 2014
—An even graver risk is that the new cold war may tempt the use of nuclear weapons in a way the US-Soviet one did not. I have in mind the argument made by some Moscow military strategists that if directly threatened by NATO’s superior conventional forces, Russia may resort to its much larger arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons. (The ongoing US-NATO encirclement of Russia with bases, as well as land and sea-based missile defense, only increases this possibility.) http://www.thenation.com/article/180942/new-cold-war-and-necessity-patriotic-heresy
 

IronGate

(2,186 posts)
33. Any tach nukes used that close to NATO allies will impact those countries
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 03:30 PM
Sep 2014

and trigger a NATO response, that's something Putin wants to avoid.

Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
18. Have you read anything about Mearsheimer?
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 03:44 AM
Sep 2014

He said at one point earlier in his career that Ukraine should keep their nuclear weapons.
He also supported India's development of nuclear weapons. In addition he wanted Germany to have a nuclear arsenal.

He has had an interesting academic career. His is one view. It isn't the only one and for it to be trumpted as the sine que non about the Ukraine is one-sided to say the least.

This effort to paint Putin as a put upon leader who is only responding to events is naive. That very well is probably part of his reasoning. However, he is not some innocent leader only intent on protecting Russia.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
19. What the f#ck are we doing in Ukraine? Granny aint got no food. Daddy aint got a job. And Sis don't
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 04:17 AM
Sep 2014

enough to pay the rent, what with her student loan debt and all.

Are_grits_groceries

(17,111 posts)
22. Non sequiter.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 06:32 AM
Sep 2014

I don't believe we should be messing about in Ukraine, but neither should Putin to the level that he is. Since they share a border, I don't expect him to ignore their actions, but he is decidedly trying to force them to follow his wishes.

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
21. Yeah but if we withdraw from all the Neo-Con
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 05:43 AM
Sep 2014

wars and matriculation, well then, intelligence analysts and the type will have to get real jobs. Now that's sarcasm!

KG

(28,751 posts)
23. rec.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 06:53 AM
Sep 2014

this isn't just about putin. he can't be the only one of the russian PTB that consider the eastward expansion of nato a threat and unnecessary provocation

 

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)
26. bad link but I do not think NATO is prepping tactical nukes
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:50 AM
Sep 2014

Russia is.

NATO is planning a defensive only anti-missile system as a possibility. Not in place other than Patriot missiles which are defensive only system.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
29. Russia is! (new link). These nukes are fired from artillery shells, Patriots will not help.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 03:05 PM
Sep 2014
http://www.newsweek.com/russia-has-threatened-nuclear-attack-says-ukraine-defence-minister-267842

..........




Russian 2S3 Akatsiya 152mm self-propelled artillery, capable of firing a 'ZBV3' (designated RFYAC-VNIITF) 1 kiloton nuclear artillery shell a distance of 17.4 km

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
27. Thank you, grahamgreen! Very important article.
Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:59 AM
Sep 2014

"Imagine the American outrage if China built an impressive military alliance and tried to include Canada and Mexico."

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