Who said “Rock is finally dead” ?

[loyalsister]

Gene Simmons... it's dead because you can't get rich

“The death of rock was not a natural death,” Simmons offers. “Rock did not die of old age. It was murdered. Some brilliance, somewhere, was going to be expressed, and now it won’t, because it’s that much harder to earn a living playing and writing songs. No one will pay you to do it.”

http://loudwire.com/gene-simmons-rock-finally-dead/

I can sympathize to a point, but I don't agree that talent is being stifled being stifled because musicians "can't make a living." A truly committed brilliant musician will find a way.

I think it might be the opposite problem. In the digital age, it's too easy to be a mediocre musician and get some attention. Audiences have low standards because there are so many of them, and there doesn't seem to be much variation from a particular formula.

On the other hand, thanks to digital technology, I can carry as much rock n roll with me as I want. In that sense it's alive and well.

[Scootaloo]

1. KISS is to rock what Avril Lavigne is to punk or 50 Cent to hip-hop

What "killed" the genre - in the US - is the allowance of media condolidation, where every radio station is clear channel, playing the same thing from the same approved lists, based entirely off what contracts the music industry wants to catapult rathr than what the listeners demand.

[JI7]

4. and taylor swift to country

[AngryAmish]

7. What listeners?

Let us pretend it is 1982. We can comfortably still listen to 1982 radio today.

This is a generational problem. Demographically the only generation that counts is the baby boomers. You fish where there are fish.

It is easier pushing another album by artist x than thirty new bands. Also, baby boomers dont buy new music. The new music gene gets turned off around 27 or so. I used to be a music fan. Near High Fidelity level music geek. Now in my 40s I see my fandom as stupid, time consuming and exclusionary.

I listen to classical, jazz and foreign music nowadays. Why? I don't know the songs. I am bored by rock and roll. Only morons would go see Pink Floyd for the tenth time. Or the first.

And, of course, The Eagles still suck.

[Cartoonist]

21. Saw Floyd 3 times

What's your problem? You don't like the music, fine. Why call those that do, morons? I'm 60 and still buy new music.

[AngryAmish]

23. whoosh

[AngryAmish]

30. Serious question re All In The Family

The opening featured Archie and Edith singing a song. It began "Oh the way Glenn Miller played, songs that made the hit parade...".

That show came out in 1974 or so. Glenn Miller was a popular big band leader who died young in the 40s.

Archie was a WWII veteran. Let's assume he was singing about songs from 1940.

1974 - 1940 = 34

2014 - 1980 = 34

The Wall came out in 1979 or 80.

So the same period of time between Archie Bunker and Glenn Miller is the period of time between today and The Wall.

Archie Bunker was an object of mirth because of his age and archaic thinking. Do you rhink you deserve to be an object of mirth the same way? If not, how so? Please show your work.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

60. "You're totally elitist....you think you're the under appreciated scholars....

....so you shit on everybody who knows less than you..."

"No....."

"Which is everybody....."

"Yeah...."


I'm going to see Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers next Saturday, amazingly, for only the second time in my life. I'll have fun, and I'm a Gen X who listens mostly to new stuff now. Enjoy puffing your clove cigs and adjusting your beret while you weep in the dark.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

63. Going to see Tom Petty in a few weeks myself!

With Steve Winwood opening. He's been around since 1964 in the Spencer Davis Group. Master of the cheesy rock organ.

Saw one-half of Queen on their North American Tour with Adam Lambert singing. It was good. As long as they can crawl on stage and reach the drum kit and the Red Special, I can dig it.

[nomorenomore08]

87. Great blue-eyed soul singer too (Winwood, that is).

Even his 80's stuff like "Higher Love" and "Valerie" is perfectly enjoyable thanks to that voice.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

103. Oh yeah!

And you can do the Harlem Shuffle to "Roll With It". When "Arc of a Diver" came out and the hit "If You See a Chance" was on it, I bought it and listened to it compulsively for about a year (1981) and I don't know why. I did the same shortly thereafter with "Empty Glass" by Pete Townshend. That was 1982. There's something healing in those albums that I needed at that time.

Before that I had listened to the 3 bands that Steve was in; Spencer Davis Group, Blind Faith and Traffic.

Some of those British white boys have lots of funk and soul.

Took me years to realize that British Invasion rock is really just electrified African-American blues. I wondered why The Who did stuff by guys named Sonny Boy Williamson and Sonny Boy Terry. I realized the "Boy" part was the disrespectful address to a grown black man.

And "Down at the Crossroads" by Cream is a Robert Johnson song about going to a particular crossroads in Mississippi and selling your soul to the devil at midnight. The British bands borrowed, stole, and sometimes credited the original writers. Ten Years After and the Stones also played a lot of blues.

[nomorenomore08]

130. This might be heresy to some, but generally I enjoy the white boy blues-rock as much as the original

classic blues, both acoustic and electric. Though certainly I acknowledge that rock'n'roll as we know it wouldn't exist without the likes of Robert Johnson and Muddy Waters.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

145. That's cool.

Stones, Steve Winwood, Robert Palmer, The Who, The Animals.

And The Beatles' Second Album is mostly covers of black artists, songs such as Please Mr. Postman, Roll Over Beethoven(Chuck Berry), You Really Got a Hold on Me(Smokey Robinson), Long Tall Sally(Little Richard) and Money (Berry Gordy Jr.).

The Beatles did the definitive version of "Twist and Shout" originally done by the Isley Brothers.

[nomorenomore08]

148. Yeah, there's always been a great deal of cross-pollination between "white" and "black" music.

Rock'n'roll arguably came from country music just as much as the blues - see Elvis's early recordings for Sun Records.

Not to mention the influence of ragtime and music-hall on jazz, or of Appalachian folk music on the blues.

[nomorenomore08]

86. I'm 29 and I've listened to Tom Petty since I was about 4.

People can mock me all they want, but I still think he's one of the great poets of rock'n'roll.

[Tom Ripley]

73. I also use the Glenn Miller analogy, but in regards to Ramones t-shirts and other punk nostalgia...

"Y'know, when I was a teenager in the 70s, I don't remember people running around in Glenn Miller shirts, why should today's kids dig the Ramones, Clash, etc...?"

[nomorenomore08]

88. Why shouldn't they? Does good music have an expiration date?

[Tom Ripley]

93. Delete: dupe post

[Tom Ripley]

94. No, good music does not have an expiration date...

whether it is by Miller or the Ramones.
I just find the use of forty year old artifacts to be signifiers of cutting edge rebellion to be confusing and amusing.

True story: When I was a punk in the 70s, we found hippies rhapsodizing about the glory days of Jerry and Jorma to be rather quaint. Yet that was only ten years in the past. Ye gods, if we had only known...

[nomorenomore08]

126. "I just find the use of forty year old artifacts to be signifiers of cutting edge rebellion to be

confusing and amusing."

I agree with this much, certainly.

"True story: When I was a punk in the 70s, we found hippies rhapsodizing about the glory days of Jerry and Jorma to be rather quaint. Yet that was only ten years in the past. Ye gods, if we had only known..."

I guess it shows the stagnation of the music industry. Think of how much popular music changed between the late 60's and late 70's, versus how little it's changed since the turn of the millennium.

[Tom Ripley]

135. I'm guilty of it also...

I saw Television last year, and of course, I said, "Man, Tom is playing even better than he was back in the day!"

[nomorenomore08]

85. I listen to music from the 1920's to today. A shitload of different genres, including classic rock.

There are certain Floyd songs and albums I could stand to never listen to again, but I won't ridicule someone else for it.

[MADem]

90. People still listen to Glenn Miller--he's one of my favorites. Good music is good music.

Anyone who can't appreciate this is tone deaf:

[lovemydog]

105. My mom told me she cried when Glenn Miller died.

I can hear why. Thanks for sharing this MADem. You're so right - good music is good music.

[nomorenomore08]

131. If forced to listen to big band, I would probably go with Miller.

Hell of a lot better (and cooler) than, say, Guy Lombardo.

[MADem]

134. When Miller was popular, Lombardo was still a fuddy-duddy!

The cool kids were dancing to him and Benny Goodman! I have a hard time staying in my seat when I hear this:

"Git outta heah, and git me some money, too!"

[nomorenomore08]

137. I don't get much exposure to that kind of music. So thanks for the tunes.

[MADem]

139. I love music....!! ANY kind of music...!!!

Just as long as it's groovin' that is!!!

[Ken Burch]

112. Archie wasn't an object of mirth because of his age.

He was an object of mirth(often angry mirth, but mirth nonetheless)because of the racism, sexism, anti-semitism, anti-Catholicism, homophobia, and all the OTHER reactionary and bigoted views he shared. And the line in that song that got the big laughs wasn't the Glenn Miller reference...it was "Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again...", which is something that the vast majority of people who were Archie's own age would have laughed at as well).

And Carroll O'Connor, who played Archie, was more or less Archie's own age and passionately disagreed with everything Archie stood for.

You're finding ageism where it doesn't exist.

[treestar]

62. Untrue, I am 55 and still curious about

new types of music and new bands.

[Tom Ripley]

71. ^^^THIS^^^

Nailed it

[mattclearing]

109. Surprised you'd say your rock fandom was exclusionary and follow with...

...calling Floyd fans morons.

I'm in my 30's and have been listing to rock, classical, jazz, and hip-hop my whole life. I see them all as essential, and I play and still go to shows.

I always regard people who hate the Eagles with suspicion. I'm not even a fan, but the level of disdain they engender is disproportionate to their alleged crimes against music, and bashing them is a popular shorthand for people who seem to want to say they're too cool for 70's arena rock without demonstrating any real knowledge or affinity for punk or anything else which might actually mean anything.

Being too cool for the Eagles is like being too cool for the Foo Fighters...it doesn't really mean anything.

[nomorenomore08]

167. They're not horrible so much as incredibly bland. I think that actually irritates some people more.

I can enjoy a handful of Eagles songs, if perhaps mainly as guilty pleasures, but hearing "Take It Easy" on the radio for the 500th time doesn't exactly get the blood pumping.

[mattclearing]

173. That, I can understand.

I've seen a lot of people try to distinguish themselves by bashing the Eagles, of whom I am not personally a huge fan.

Bashing a band that's fashionable to dislike doesn't impress me.

If that person writes a song half as good as Desperado, that will impress me.

[nomorenomore08]

174. Yeah, some of the earlier stuff - before they became multimillionaires and snorted mountains of coke

- does actually seem somewhat heartfelt. "Peaceful Easy Feeling" is in that category too.

[loyalsister]

11. I think that's true

Kiss is a joke.
I would also speculate that it went downhill when the up and comers stopped listening to the real thing. The best musicians are the ones who listened to the real masters from the 50s and 60s.
If someone's idea of rock n roll is hair bands, new wave, punk, and grunge, there's little hope that they will be able to produce anything that resembles rock n roll. Those genres have their own merit, but the evolving genres all lose a little when they leave more and more of the foundations behind.
When the new generations chose everything but the basics, they were lost.

[Go Vols]

100. I stream this to the pool.

http://www.iheart.com/live/1015-KGB-237/

pretty good tunes.

[zappaman]

12. +100!

[alarimer]

120. I agree that consolidation killed RADIO, but it did not kill music.

There is so much music, of all genres, available from so many different sources that it is entirely possible to avoid commercial radio altogether.

Spotify, Rhapsody and other services have millions of songs in all kinds of genres. Some is the same as what you find on the radio, but there is a whole world out there of music.

Given the number of independent, do-it-yourself musicians and labels out there, you can listen to something new every day of the week.

I get most of my recommendations from a email list started in the early days of the internet by like-minded individuals. Most of it never makes it onto radio at all. But many of the bands earn a modest living through touring and merchandise, although you never hear them on commercial radio. So these people are never going to be millionaires. So what? Making music for money is the very definition of soulless.

[nomorenomore08]

132. My music-listening life has been considerably happier since I discovered Spotify a couple years ago.

Which pretty much coincided with my beginning to collect CD's again, and more recently, vinyl.

[derby378]

124. In the words of Public Enemy...

Controlled by a sucker in a suit
With slicked-back hair
And he don't even live here

[Laelth]

2. "A truly committed brilliant musician will find a way."

Mozart died a pauper. The world is very cruel to artists. It has always been extremely hard to make money when one makes art.

-Laelth

[loyalsister]

25. I suspect there are a lot of people who have it completely backwards driving this

People who go into it to "turn music into gold" are going to try to put out what has been making money. It has happened before and rock survived. Maybe we'll see some good stuff again.

[cemaphonic]

157. Mozart died a pauper because he was terrible with money.

He was a gambling fiend, and he liked to emulate the lifestyle of the nobility that he encountered through concerts and tutoring. But he made a decent living. Schubert is a better example of a genius musician who died poor and unknown.

[JI7]

3. but there ARE a lot of musicians out there making good music and having a good time

they may not become mega wealthy but they are able to make decent money just doing something they love .

you can usually hear these musicians on indie stations, you might have to search online, at music festivals and other things.

[randome]

8. I've discovered a host of good music at some Starbucks stores.

They don't always play the 'right stuff' but sometimes they do. And since I discovered the phone app, Shazam, it's much easier to identify the song and the artist.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[sufrommich]

5. Well,Pete Townshend said it first

and better as usual:

[8 track mind]

15. I miss Keith Moon n/t

[sufrommich]

17. So do I.I know it sounds silly now that I'm 57 years old,

but I cried for days when he died.

[JI7]

54. i was born shortly after he died but have seen videos

and he is so fun to watch .

one of my "feel good" things to see or do anytime i feel down for some reason. gaurateneed to make me feel better .

[loyalsister]

18. Thanks for that!!

The Who performed on a televised festival (maybe after the earthquake in Haiti?) a few years ago. They blew me away!

[sufrommich]

20. I've seen The Who 5 times in my life.

3 times with Keith Moon,twice without,they're my all time favorite band . Glad you enjoyed it.

[lovemydog]

46. Twice here.

Once with Keith Moon. Once not long after he passed. Mind-blowingly good concerts. I love the Who as well.

And yes, rock is dead ... long live rock!

I'm often finding new or old music that I love. There's some great internet radio stations out there, that play all sorts of varied music. Lately I've been listening to one in Paris, called flip, and one in Chicago (I think it's a community college).

Loving rock music doesn't mean stagnating. Through the Who I got into all sorts of others stuff like Eddie Cochrane, Mose Allison, the Kinks, Pearl Jam, tons of music.

There's lots of great stuff out there now. Lately I've been enjoying Annie Clarke (St. Vincent), Iggy Azalea (her early stuff), Interpol, Blake Shelton.

I've never been elitist about my musical preferences. I love art, love mod, love pop. The Who are like that too. They were very much about embracing both art and pop. Even in their design, cover songs and lyrics.

Gene Simmons is a jerk.

[loyalsister]

53. I sometimes think I was born too late!

I was always listening to older music when I was in HS in the 80s. There was some stuff that I liked at the time, but I had no lasting love for it.
Even when it came to Bruce Springsteen I preferred his old stuff to Born in The USA.

[lovemydog]

59. It's really fun making musical connections, like a family tree.

The first Bruce song I ever heard was Incident on 57th Street. Heard it on the radio and I stopped what I was doing and just listened, transfixed. Bought the album The Wild The Innocent & the E Street Shuffle the next day. Through early Bruce I got into Tom Waits, Van Morrison & Southside Johnny & The Asbury Jukes. Through them I got into music ranging from Ronnie Spector & the Phil Spector-produced early 60's 'wall of sound' to Nick Cave, P.J. Harvey to old blues like Lightnin' Hopkins, Bessie Smith and Howlin' Wolf. I love reading about music so it's fun finding the connections & discovering what you like. From loving Bob Dylan, The Band, The Who, Prince & the Clash, I've found a lifetime of musical enjoyment. Great book on this type of thing is called Mystery Train by Greil Marcus. Also the 33 1/3 series of books.

[loyalsister]

68. One of my all time favorite songs

and also the reason I bought Wild The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle. I came upon it because the lyrics were printed in a biography. This would have been 1983-4. I finally got my chance to see him in '12 and he played it by someone's request. He also play the E Street Shuffle.
I am a music history buff and had the good fortune to see Chuck Berry and Wanda Jackson here on different occasions.
Family tree is a great analogy. Thanks for the heads up on the book!

[Initech]

98. Seriously!!

When I saw Black Sabbath a few months ago, I was talking to a guy on the bus who saw Led Zeppelin at Long Beach Arena during the shows that ultimately became the "How The West Was Won" album. Oh to have been to that show...

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. When somebody tells me they like KISS, I immediately discount anything they have to say

about music.

A fortiori for KISS members themselves.

[JI7]

9. yes, aren't they like that thomas kincaid guy who was more a business person than artist ?

that's what kiss is.

[sufrommich]

10. I agree. The first album my son ever bought was a

Kiss album..he was 12. By 13 he was over them and moving on to real talent (although I still like to rib him about it occasionally).

[AngryAmish]

13. KISS was the white prole guy flipside of disco

A lot of white prole girls like disco. Actually just white girls like disco. Many country club weddings I have attended had a lot of disco. String quartet during cocktails, boozy speeches during dinner, then hit the dj for disco and the chicken dance.

Except when KISS did that disco song.

It is dumb music for dumb people and I kinda like dumb sometimes.

[loyalsister]

16. MY BIL has a bunch of kiss ornaments and toys

He finally took the posters down, though. I predict that he and my sister will agree with this comment when the real gripe is having to do anything but play music and disliking the realities of the world when you have kids. The dude has had a couple of union gigs he lost because of that attitude.

[hifiguy]

14. Gene Simmons is an idiot and an asshole.

Kiss were never a band - they were a bunch of carnies fleecing the marks for all they had. The sucked and always will.

[LuvNewcastle]

22. plus a thousand

[Bonhomme Richard]

27. +1 n/t

[johnp3907]

19. What does that clown know about Rock?

All he's ever done is a sophomoric kiddie show cartoon version of Rock.

[8 track mind]

24. "thanks to digital technology, i can carry as much rock n roll with me as i want"

This is quite true. I have a 8Gb card stuffed with music on my cell phone. However, I use this in my place of work....

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

There is something just stupid amusing about a song fading out in a guitar solo, followed by a mechanical "Ka-Thunk!"

[napkinz]

26. this will make you feel old ...

[8 track mind]

33. my older brother got

one of the first Sony Walkmans for Xmas one year. Blew my mind. What's odd, is that it doesn't seem all that long ago.

Time is cruel.....

[Kalidurga]

36. Hilarious

They should have a group of kids live in a 1980's house. Not quite as difficult as an 1880's house, but I think it would be a lot funnier.

[loyalsister]

80. I love those!

I want to see them do transistor radios and 8 tracks.

[loyalsister]

31. AWESOME!!

The cars I rode in as a child were equipped with those and I spent a lot of time trying to fix various cassettes. Now, I love that my music is stored a few different places and while not entirely indestructible, close enough that I feel secure.
I also love not needing a car or cumbersome walkman now.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

106. Frampton Comes Alive? Bob Seger? BTO??

Livin' in the Seventies, yeah!!

Frampton Comes Alive was a MONSTER hit double album.

I found a concert t-shirt in my closet that said "Bob Seger American Tour '74". I have no idea where it crawled in from. I've never seen Bob Seger live. My kid borrowed it and wore it and that was fine with me. She also stole my Frank Zappa T-shirt that said "Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar" on the back. And my Bruce T-shirt from 1999.

I preferred cassettes to 8 track back in the day.

And I gave up on rock pretty much when The Police broke up right after the Synchronicity Tour in '83. I remember having a side seat and staring straight ahead at Stewart Copeland's drumming. And every single lick was just like it was on the last two albums. I didn't think any new bands would come along with the complex rhythms that they had. They broke up just when they were getting quite good. There were a few people I listened to in the late 80s, but I decided rock died when The Police died.

Andy Summers has gone into jazz (7ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, suspended chords) which is an indication he's an excellent musician. He's also studied classical a lot. Classical music gives you a rock-solid foundation of discipline for any other type of music. And if you get bored with classical, you can go into jazz. That is what very intelligent musicians often do. I noticed this because I started out as a classical music student and was totally obsessed with it for a couple of decades on two different instruments, and still love a lot of the complexity of some of it.

I have not heard any rock bands since The Police that had that complexity that I always find interesting. Not DA-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP in a straight 4/4 rhythm. But then I was playing Stravinsky orchestral pieces in high school, like The Firebird Suite. Last page of The Firebird Suite is in 7/4.

And then grunge came along.........barf.

Get off my lawn!!!

[Warpy]

28. I always enjoyed competent bar bands in small venues

a hell of a lot more than I enjoyed bands that had made it in large concert venues. The one exception is Santana, they put on one hell of a show wherever they are. Steelhead is getting there, but not quite. Not so the rest of them.

Alcohol's got nothing to do with that, I can't drink it.

[RedCappedBandit]

29. Who the fuck gives a shit what Gene Simmons has to say about anything

[loyalsister]

34. good point

I actually thought it was a hypocritical statement given his part in trashing it.

[Initech]

44. Seriously he's a marketer who plays a rock musician.

I saw Nine Inch Nails and Soundgarden a couple weeks ago, and both bands are infinitely more talented than KISS. Bad Motor Finger and Superunknown both hold UP surprisingly well.

[nomorenomore08]

89. Don't forget 'Louder Than Love.' That actually might be my favorite of theirs.

[Initech]

97. Good choice, I think Rusty Cage is probably my favorite Soundgarden song.

[rbrnmw]

32. Google Steve Perry La 2014

He still has it I'm. on a phone and don't know how to link the video

[loyalsister]

37. Thanks! That was awesome

Bruce Springsteen still has it too. He's got Tom Morello playing with him now. I think it's not dead if they can pull this off.

[rbrnmw]

38. can you link Steve Perry?

[loyalsister]

42. Here ya go

I love the bluesy feel of this song.

[rbrnmw]

45. thanks

He also sang Sam Cooke's Only Sixteen it blew me away he killed it.

[loyalsister]

47. I'll have to look for more

I watched one of those VH1 countdowns of the 100 most influential artists of rock n roll. The father - Chuck Berry- didn't even make the top 10. I can't remember much other than there were a lot of artists who should not have been there.

[rbrnmw]

48. I hate how they dismiss true talent on those shows

[loyalsister]

51. No joke

I don't remember who they were, but there's no doubt that everyone who was listed above him was playing what he brought to the party.

[rbrnmw]

40. awesome I love the Boss

and Tom Morello kicks ass

[napkinz]

35. Disco will live forever!

[Bjorn Against]

39. Rock is not dead, there are still rock artists every bit as good as the classic bands of the 70's

Here are a couple fairly recent videos from The Winery Dogs and Steven Wilson respectively, the albums these songs appear on blow anything KISS has ever done out of the water and can stand side by side with the best classic rock albums of decades past.

[Initech]

58. Steven Wilson - excellent choice!

[Bjorn Against]

64. Steven Wilson is an amazing talent that deserves far more recognition than he gets

I got to see him live for the first time last year, and it was one of the best shows I have seen. His band is so incredibly talented and they can play so many different styles ranging from classical to heavy metal, why they don't get more attention than they do I will never understand.

I think this was my favorite track off his last album...

[Initech]

67. I'm a huge Steven Wilson / Porcupine Tree fan.

One of my favorite shows I ever went to was a Porcupine Tree and Opeth show. It was about two years after In Absentia was released. Opeth played an all acoustic set in support of their excellent album Damnation (which was produced by Steven Wilson). It was such a good show. I've seen Porcupine Tree at least 5 or 6 times live and Steven Wilson twice. There's supposed to be a new Steven Wilson album out later this year but that remains to be seen.

[Bjorn Against]

69. I would have loved to see that show, Opeth is a great band too

Damnation is probably my favorite Opeth album and this is my favorite song from it...

I haven't heard anything about a new Steven Wilson album, but it has been over a year since his last album which would not be that long for most artists but considering just how prolific he is it is a long time for him. I would be surprised if we don't hear an announcement from him fairly soon, the big question is what band he will be performing with considering how many projects he has had. I actually think his current band with his solo act is the best group of musicians he has ever worked with, but I would love to see another Porcupine Tree album as well.

[Initech]

74. Opeth's new album is amazing.

And it's the reunion of them with Steven Wilson as their producer. I'm hoping that means we'll see a new collaborative tour, I love Steven Wilson's live band, and as much as I'd like to see a av new Porcupine Tree album I wonder if that's gonna happen or if Steven Wilson is going to continue to produce new solo material. Id be fine either way, all three albums have been great so far.

[DonCoquixote]

81. May I humbly add

Muse, Radiohead, Coheed and Cambria, Halestorm, 30 seconds to mars, and many others who are new, but make solid music.

[Nye Bevan]

41. WTF? How can he say that?

[Johnny Noshoes]

43. I stopped listening to Rock and Roll around 1979...

That was when I discovered jazz. Now what I wouldn't give to be able to travel back in time and hear Bird live or Chet Baker. One of the best musicians I ever heard live was Dexter Gordon playing at the Village Vanguard. That is one of the greatest venues for live music.

[loyalsister]

49. I love smooth jazz

I can't get into the mania of fusion, though. I discovered Chet Baker and Billie Holiday in my early 20s. I developed a new respect for the trumpet.

[Codeine]

95. Discovering John Coltrane was one of the

most transformative moments of my life. His Village Vanguard performance of "Naima" from 1966 is my absolute favorite musical moment of all time.

[rock]

50. I didn't

[lovemydog]

102. DUzy

[Shankapotomus]

52. It's dead because of ignorant people like Gene Simmons

and because its ultimate expression, Progressive Rock music, was mostly rejected for its dumbed-down counterparts in the genre.

[n2doc]

55. Funny that. 2 years ago he was singing a different tune

You can play in a bar band and do the hits locally because everyone wants a lot of music. If you play the weekend, maybe Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and you can clear, if you’re decent, maybe two, three thousand dollars. That’s on the lowest end. If you’re lucky to have talent and be young and have charisma and write lots of songs, maybe you can hit the big time. At the lowest level you can make more money in a band than you can in a job. At the highest level you can make one hundred times more than the President of the United States, who makes around $400,000 a year. I make more than that in a night. Wow, indeed. Who’s getting paid too much and who’s getting paid too little. That’s the question.

I think a lot of people will be interested in that because people think there is no money to be made at the lowest levels and they have to do that part-time while they work corporate jobs, so I think that’s a really good message.

Well it is, as in a job you get paid by expertise. So in a cover band, you have to know the cover stuff. Learn Journey’s “Don’t Stop Believing”, learn the things that work but, if you want to do this for real, there are certain facts of life. You can’t have a pot-belly, be 40 or 50 and be bald. That’s not going to happen, but you can be in a bar band and you can make lots of money.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danschawbel/2012/10/03/gene-simmons-and-the-business-behind-kiss/

[OilemFirchen]

82. Har fucking har.

"You can’t have a pot-belly, be 40 or 50 and be bald."

[lovemydog]

104. The Pixies

are one of those unique bands like The Velvet Underground. Enormously influential. Nirvana & Radiohead (to name just two) were very influenced by them. Thankfully they're finally getting the popularity they deserve, long after their original records were released. Great video, thanks for sharing it.

[riverbendviewgal]

56. As long as I am alive it won't be dead to me.

My era - the Woodstock era - is loved by even the next generations. But let's face it. as generations change the popular music changes.


Many say the world has 40 - 50 years left due to climate change. I think rock music will still be around to the end, my friend.

[nomorenomore08]

91. I watched the 3 1/2 hour director's cut of the Woodstock film several years ago.

All the performances shown were fantastic, for the most part.

[arcane1]

57. I blame MTV for this too. Image is everything now.

Though I'll gladly admit that I like some of Kiss' older stuff. But I remember seeing Foreigner perform in the early 80's when I was just starting high school, and until the moment the show started I had NO IDEA what the band looked like, or even how many members it had.

Fast-forward a few years, and I'm a metal-head, excited over this new MTV show called Headbanger's Ball. It started out OK, but soon devolved into nothing but power ballads from bands who were created in a record company conference room. The good, true stuff got harder and harder to find, until eventually the music wasn't even sold in the states at all, and you had to have a connection in Europe to even keep up with bands you like.

Good music starts from the gutter and works its way up. Now, it starts from the suit and works its way down.

Simmons does make a good point regarding things like support for touring, which is hard to do without a financial backer.

[L0oniX]

61. You can't be above the rest without the discipline to practice 5< hrs a day 5< days a week.

To be extraordinarily above the rest you need to sleep with that guitar instrument and have it on you all the time. I doubt anyone in Kiss ever did that and that's why they were average.

[BillZBubb]

65. Rock's not dead, it's only sleeping.

Below the surface their is a lot of creativity going on. Rock got cartoonish and ultimately misogynist with Kiss and the later hair bands. The guitar solo became a cliché. The music industry and media conglomeration homogenized and regimented it. Rock got republicanized.

But, rock music is about energy with a side of rebellion. No other form can make that claim. That's why rock is like a dormant volcano, asleep for a while but the fire is still burning down below the surface.

[Dirty Socialist]

66. Looks Like

I won't invite Simmons to go with me to the Black Keys concert. Oh well. His loss.

[lovemydog]

107. He'd complain any way, so no loss, lol.

Are the Black Keys on tour now? I wanna see them.

[Dirty Socialist]

115. Yes

Upcoming dates include concerts in Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, and Louisville.

[TlalocW]

70. If you can still smell what he's cooking

The Rock ain't dead.



TlalocW

[kwassa]

72. Rock isn't dead, it is just recycling itself over and over and over ... for 40 years ...

I don't think there have been any major new ideas in rock since the 70s, unfortunately. Much of the current rock is perfectly pleasant, but it is not new, and has no big new ideas or musical direction.

There are very few rock artists that are unique and have something individual to say. I listen to many styles of music, and I think of the cliched dead end much rock has become. It is about all the emphasis on the lead guitarist and the guitar solo in the middle of the song; only the lead guitarist is allowed to solo, the other band members serve only to back the lead guitarist. In the days of jazz that preceded rock, everyone soloed. The instrumentation in rock is usually reduced, too; lead guitar, sometimes rhythm guitar, bass, drums. This gets real boring after awhile. The same beat over and over again.

Also, in the anti-vocalist ethos of the rock, most rock singers are simply bad. Not interesting bad, just bad.

Rock is not particularly unique, either. The greatest difference between rock and the music that preceded it is that the instrumentation went from acoustic to electric. The form of the music was not different, yet many that love rock have no concept of the music that it came from, and think, incorrectly, that it was unlike anything that came before it.

Sorry, I just had to vent a bit here.

[Tom Ripley]

75. Well done analysis

[kwassa]

76. Thank you.

[cemaphonic]

159. The 70s were when you had a whole generation that had grown up listening to rock.

Earlier rock was interesting because it drew from so many sources. The early rockabilly stuff drew from country, R&B, and a bit of gospel, then the British invasion came around with a heavier empahsis on R&B and the blues. Then bands started bringing in influences from jazz, Tin Pan Alley, folk, classical, etc.

There were lots of trend followers and moneygrabs too, but most of the good bands from that era drew upon a unique musical upbringing. But by the late 70s, most rock musicians grew up listening mostly to rock and roll. I've been listening to a lot of rockabilly lately, and I'm struck by how much music from the early 80s draws upon that sound.

[kwassa]

161. Most of the creativity in rock took place during the '60s ...

much of it before it became big business and commercial pressures narrowed the field. Music artists were experimenting with all kinds of things because that was the ethos of that time, and there wasn't big money involved. The first FM radio stations were pretty free-form, not programmed by orders from above.

I am old enough to have lived through the before and after; the turning point was Woodstock, which I attended, when everyone immediately realized the immense draw this music had. After this rock gradually moved into stadiums.

and even in the 70s there were all kinds of lingering influences that were not rock, but came from the interests in the '60s about blues, folk music traditions from the US and other countries, some jazz influences. Some of that is turning up now in different bands, but this is also recycling.

[Iggo]

77. They said Rock was dead when four marginally talented rockers put on platform boots...

...painted their faces silver, black, and white, and hit the stage behind a ton of cheap fireworks.

And they were wrong then, too.

[yuiyoshida]

78. JROCK IS ALIVE AND WELL in JAPAN!!!

[Initech]

99. Argh, X Japan is playing Madison Square Garden in October.

I'd seriously do anything it takes to be at that show... I bet it would kick serious amounts of ass.

[yuiyoshida]

108. Just to hear them do

Kurenai live... or even TEARS... would probably bring me to Tears...

[Initech]

122. I seriously hope they play Staples Center or the Forum soon.

I'd buy tickets the second they went on sale.

[LeftOfSelf-Centered]

138. Hey, that video cut off Kurenai! :)

As far as the ballads are concerned, my favourite is Endless Rain. But as long as they play Silent Jealousy I'm happy.

[yuiyoshida]

172. The video did cut it off but

I posted Kurenai up thread..

[calimary]

79. Rock is dead?

Not in Madison Wisconsin last Sunday!!!


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Nope. Rock is DEFINITELY NOT dead!

[panader0]

116. The Warp Tour! Which one is your son?

Very cool.

[calimary]

125. The vocalist. He leaves the stage with his wireless mic, every show, and goes out into the crowd.

Most often it's when they play the only cover song they include in any set long or short - "Come Together" by the Beatles. They do a really wicked nasty bluesy version and Michael wails away, down in the crowd, prances around, aims the mic toward somebody of the many who invariably sing along. He'll sing the first part of the refrain, "Come toGETHer, riiiiight no-o-o-ow..." and the whole band stops stone-cold and he holds the mic out and the crowd thunders the second part - "...OVER ME!" MAN let me tell you what a thrill that is, watching it play out live in concert like that. My baby boy! I saw their set at four Warped Tour dates. We actually attended five out of the opening nine that they were assigned. We got to the fairgrounds in Mesa AZ too late to catch their set. They were slotted first that day and while we were technically in the vicinity, there was a large chain-reaction fender-bender ON THE OFFRAMP where you were supposed to get off to reach the Warped Tour parking vast (and yes it was VAST, seems the best way to describe it, by making it a noun). He does that every show. And I have yet to see any crowd NOT eat it up with a spoon and whipped cream and a cherry on top. The band came up with that performance piece themselves.

Actually, the Warped Tour dates looked like that, but with Warped Tour logos all over the place. THIS set of photos was from "Taste of Madison," an annual Labor Day Weekend fiesta in Madison WI. WJJO-FM is a BIG rock station - preeminent in all the Upper Midwest, and highly-respected throughout what's left of great rock radio, period. Their Program Director and Assistant PD and jocks like the band! They played it last year but as the opening band, much earlier in the day. This time they were moved up a little, in the mid-afternoon! The PD told Michael "the crowd really came out for you!" SO cool to have the WJJO brass notice that and even comment on it! YESSSS!!!!!



Thanks for asking, panader0!

[lovemydog]

149. Post a track here if you can calimary!

I wanna hear it.

[calimary]

150. Video of the title track of their most recent album:

[lovemydog]

162. Oh damn that's awesome!

Great song, very professional & entertaining video! You must be so proud. That video looks like it was a riot to make.

[calimary]

166. It WAS a riot to make. Dear God. There was one sequence in which the blond kid

danced around in the nearly-nude. He wore a body stocking and his bass guitar and that was it. I was a good girl. I didn't peek. But there were several other young women there who somehow all started assembling when they heard that was the scene coming up next, and they watched intently throughout that shot. The "Religiboom" segment and the painted-on beards segment were pretty damn funny, too! Everybody on the set got the giggles while that was going on!

The video is a spoof of this infomercial channel that ran 24 hours a day, back on the East Coast. The director knew about it and he thought it'd be a hoot. It WAS.

[lovemydog]

170. Yeah I figured they have a good fan base

that would be very interested in the making of the video, lol. The director did a fantastic job of spoofing an infomercial. That clear guitar your son (I think that's him) uses in the video is super cool. Oh, and I had the hots for the woman in the vid!

[Warren DeMontague]

83. I knew KISS sucked in 1976

Whatever, dude. You're a would-be expert on a genre you never actually got close to.

[loyalsister]

84. + 1

win

[nomorenomore08]

92. Mainstream music nowadays is pretty hopeless, admittedly.

But there's plenty of good stuff coming out in more underground genres.

[bhikkhu]

96. True, but that's been the case for ages

I remember growing up in the 70's and agreeing with some friends that pop music sucked, rock was all big money formula crap, and disco was even worse. Listened to the King Biscuit Flower Hour and imagined better times.

If anything, I think modern technology has made it much better. Pop still sucks, but its so much easier to find good music of all sorts and the base of talented musicians is huge, compared to back when the big studios ran everything. My favorites lately - San Fermin, Heartless Bastards, Jason Isbell, Josh Rouse, Ray Lamontagne...

[Initech]

101. There's lots of great stuff out there if you look for it.

Here's some of my favorite albums in the last two years:

- Arctic Monkeys: AM
- Dropkick Murphys: Signed & Sealed In Blood
- Steven Wilson: The Raven That Refused To Sing
- Fitz & The Tantrums: More Than Just A Dream
- Spoon: They Want Our Soul
- Wolfmother: New Crown
- Bastille: Bad Blood
- Dream Theater: Dream Theater
- Black Sabbath: 13
- Nine Inch Nails: Hesitation Marks
- The Roots Feat. Elvis Costello: Wise Up Ghost
- Queens Of The Stone Age: ....Like Clockwork
- Deftones: Koi No Yokan
- Gaslight Anthem: Get Hurt
- Slightly Stoopid: Top Of The World
- Jack White: Lazaretto
- Phish Fuego
- Opeth: Pale Communion
- Weird Al Yankovic: Mandatory Fun
- The Black Keys: Turn Blue
- Rise Against: The Black Market
- Iced Earth: The Plagues Of Babylon
- KONGOS: Lunatic

[KatyMan]

114. you said it: lots and lots and lots

Of great new music. If you dont know that, you're not looking or not trying.

eta, 48 yesr old music fan here so it's not generational.

[nomorenomore08]

127. I guess most of those are relatively mainstream, though not exactly Top 40.

Two of the better albums of 2013 (IMO) were Suede's and Mazzy Star's reunion records. Speaking of 90's nostalgia...

Aside from those two, though, my tastes in new music tend to run much heavier. Here's Windhand for an example:

[Initech]

140. I listen to a wide variety of stuff.

I used to be against mainstream music but I've grown way past that phase. Most of my friends haven't even heard a lot of the bands I listen to on a regular basis.

[nomorenomore08]

141. Having listened to underground metal for half my life, I'm pretty well used to my friends

knowing almost nothing about most of my favorite bands.

[Initech]

151. At least a couple of my friends have similar taste in metal that I do.

Last edited Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:32 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm not a hardcore death metal fan - I tend to lean towards the more progressive side of metal / rock. I love Yes, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Tool, Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Opeth, Phish, Primus, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Elbow, Muse, Dream Theater, Genesis, Agalloch, Katatonia, Iced Earth, I could go on and on.

[nomorenomore08]

158. I love me some death/black/doom/sludge metal. The more extreme the better.

Particularly any of the aforementioned genres combined with the heavier side of punk (like crust/anarcho stuff).

I listen to a lot of stuff that most people would consider barely "musical" at all, not out of any sense of elitism or defiance, but because it scratches a certain itch in me. I don't quite know why.

Here's a relatively accessible example of what I'm talking about:

[Initech]

164. My dad doesn't think it's music if it was recorded after 1973.

[nomorenomore08]

165. And I don't think it's music if it consists solely of distorted synth feedback.

Though I occasionally indulge in a bit of "transgressive" power electronics just for shits and giggles.

[Tom Ripley]

168. I suspect that William Bennett of Whitehouse...

also creates "transgressive power electronics" for shits and giggles. He is an erudite and very funny man.

[nomorenomore08]

171. I would have to agree with that assessment. Some of the stuff is a downright hilarious listen. n/t

[Initech]

169. I don't think drum machines should be allowed to be called "music".

But I do listen to a lot of bands that do use them...

[Ken Burch]

110. Ah yes, Gene Simmons...the Voice of Integrity himself...

I still remember reading the transcript of Gene The Tongue word-raping Terry Gross on her "Fresh Air" show, just because she said that he looked like he'd been wearing fishnet stockings in a photo from the Seventies.

(For the record, as a person of the "Kiss Army" generation-though never a member-I saw a lot of photos of Gene Simmons taken in the Seventies and he DID look like he was wearing fishnets. Why would he find that assumption so freaking threatening over thirty-five years later when Ms. Gross made that comment?)

[nomorenomore08]

146. I prefer Dwid Hellion... the voice of Integrity...

[Ken Burch]

156. Now THAT'd be an epic "ring tone".

[nomorenomore08]

160. Integrity are definitely one of the better "heavier music" bands of the past couple decades.

Even more impressively, they've been steadily at it since around '88/'89.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

111. Gene Simmons is an idiot. KISS is a joke.

There is a certain amount of distortion I will put up with. Then beyond that, it overwhelms the music and musical pitch isn't there anymore. There's a line there. And that includes screaming hoarsely. Led Zep is over that line for me. Brian May is tasteful with his effects.

Angus Young plays lovely complex virtuoso figures covered up with noise. They could have been written by Bach. I really don't like AC/DC after Bon Scott and that's because the new singer screams like his throat has been ripped out. He loses the pitch. There is artistic screaming like John Lennon doing the definitive version of "Twist and Shout" or the beginning of the single version of "Revolution", and Roger Daltrey singing just about anything.

When I played "Revolution" my square mom came in and bellowed, "WHAT IN THE HELL IS THAT?" I said, "That's John."
Also, Back in the USSR was conveniently placed at the beginning of The White Album and starts with the sound of a jet landing. That was also good for pissing off the parental units.


When "I Feel Fine" and "Day Tripper" came out, they blew everyone's mind with their great riffs. "I Feel Fine" was the first song to use feedback as part of the intro. Everybody was mind blown over that in, what, 1964??

[Orsino]

113. No, he's right, in part.

There are the stories of people "finding a way," but the recording industry long ago figured out what to do with rock, and corporatized it so that dirty hippies couldn't get as rich as the industry owners, and so even the struggling artists have to struggle harder.

The same thing that was done to all American labor was done to musicians, and the musicians went down quietly, because musicians have throughout modern history been labeled as disreputable and were therefore dependent on our largesse.

Musicians went down because their unions had no teeth.

[sweetloukillbot]

163. That's not what he's saying though

The interview blames suburban white kids who stop hard-working immigrants like himself from making a living, because they use Napster. He doesn't say a thing about the corruption of the music industry (or radio - the things that drove filesharing). He further says that the only good band since 1984 is Nirvana, which is funny, since he said two weeks ago that depressed singers from Seattle should just go ahead and kill themselves.
The interview is offensive on all sorts of levels, but then that's pretty much Gene Simmons' schtick nowadays.

[logosoco]

117. Nothing will stop someone who has the music in them.

I agree also that rock is still alive and I do love the fact that I can go out for a walk with an amount of music in my pocket that would be awfully heavy if it was all in a Peaches crate!

How sad that Simmons thinks one should not even learn how to play a guitar. My son taught himself because he loves music, not because he wanted to make money. He also taught himself the accordion and keyboard and played sax in marching band. Some people love music. Talented people don't just pick another field because of money.
He also is not factoring in that people today do not have the same disposable income that they had in years past to be able to go buy an album (never mind the fact that it is easier to do this today!) or go see a concert.


I am still rocking with much of the same music I have been listening to in the late 70s. Every now and then I listen to what my kids are listening to (they are now in their 20s) and find something I really love. Or someone here at DU posts something. I took a big bite out of my budget to get some iTunes credit and buy some new music for my iPod. That is not going to make any musician rich, but it might make them happy to know their sounds reached someone with enjoyment. Simmons does not seem to understand that aspect of music.

[Avalux]

118. Simmons isn't much different than Sarah Palin.

Both prostitute themselves for the almighty dollar. Money is their god.

There are a lot of ARTISTS who create music because they love doing it, not because they expect a payout. Sure it's great to make millions, but that's not the goal of a true artist.

If Gene Simmons thinks his lame costumed band is the definition of Rock music, he's more pathetic than I thought.

[alarimer]

119. Gene Simmons is a reprehensible human being.

Along the lines of Ted Nugent.

I would take what he has to say with many, many grains of salt.

[Throd]

121. KISS isn't rock music. It's rudimentary shit that has similarities to rock music.

Gene, if you want to know what is wrong with rock music, look in the mirror.

[Rex]

123. He is so full of shit, of COURSE they will pay you to play rock and roll!

Gene go crawl back under whatever rock it is you came out from under...

[SomethingFishy]

128. Welcome to the 21st century Gene. Where you actually have to go out and work

to make money. You can no longer hire a bunch of studio musicians have them play on your album, pay them scale and then reap the benefits by selling millions of records.

It's a brave new world, you want to see where "Rock Lives"? Get out of your mansion. Leave the bubble you live in and a whole new world will open up to you.
Or you can stay home and STFU. Sell your stupid coffins and your lame TV Football crap and leave the music to musicians.

Two last words. Vintage Trouble. Better than Kiss could even dream of being.

[Tom Ripley]

133. Vintage Trouble are criminally unknown

I don't listen to much "rock" these days, but they do get me off!

[nomorenomore08]

143. I thought you were talking about the quasi-Christian doom metal band Trouble...

But then I used Google and wound up disappointed.

[Jamaal510]

129. Rock isn't dead; most of the better stuff is underground, just like with rap. nt

[nomorenomore08]

144. Sean Price and Ill Bill are two of my favorite rappers nowadays.

Though it's probably telling that they're both over 40.

[Jamaal510]

153. I'll have to check them out sometime, for sure. eom

[lovemydog]

147. I agree Jamaal510.

There's always people who like underground music. That's where many treasures are found. I'm interested in where to find stuff. How do you find music you enjoy?

[Jamaal510]

152. I have several ways of doing my digging:

I usually pick one of the albums in my itunes library and look at all the related songs offered at the itunes store for it, but sometimes I also either click on one of the genres (if it's one that I don't have many songs from already), or I listen to Music Choice. I have a weird way of finding my music...

[nomorenomore08]

155. YouTube, Spotify, Bandcamp are the big ones for me. I've found all kinds of random bands

(metal, hardcore, obscure classic rock) that are to my liking.

[Yavin4]

136. What really killed rock & roll was that the music industry got lazy

It was more profitable to re-sell old music in new formats, from vinyl to CD to digital, than it was to develop new acts.

[lovemydog]

142. Here's Pitchfork's opinionated list of top 100 albums 2010-2014:

http://pitchfork.com/features/staff-lists/9465-the-top-100-albums-of-2010-2014/1/

You can listen to selected tracks for free.

Lots of great music like Arcade Fire, Beyonce, Miguel, Haim, Drake, Vampire Weekend, Sky Ferreira, Kurt Vile, St. Vincent, Jay Z.

Adventurous stuff like Swans, Kanye, Ariel Pink, Kendrick Lamar, PJ Harvey, Japandroids, Frank Ocean, Grimes.

Rock is dead? Long live music!

[rurallib]

154. I am sure my feelings have been expressed in here by someone.

[FSogol]

175. Tough talk from a half-baked novelty act.

[loyalsister]

176. ^^ This

If I had higher expectations of US media, I might be surprised to discover that someone thinks his comments are worthy of the digital space they occupy.