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Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:23 PM

 

Pennsylvania Mother Who Gave Daughter Abortion Pill Gets Prison - Reuters/HuffPo

Pennsylvania mother who gave daughter abortion pill gets prison
By David DeKok - Reuters/RawStory
Saturday, September 6, 2014 15:32 EDT

<snip>

HARRISBURG Pa. (Reuters) – A Pennsylvania woman has been sentenced to up to 18 months in prison for obtaining so-called abortion pills online and providing them to her teenage daughter to end her pregnancy.

Jennifer Ann Whalen, 39, of Washingtonville, a single mother who works as a nursing home aide, pleaded guilty in August to obtaining the miscarriage-inducing pills from an online site in Europe for her daughter, 16, who did not want to have the child.

Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians.

She was also fined $1,000 and ordered to perform 40 hours of community service after her release. The felony offense called for up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.

Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen’s lawyer, previously told Reuters criminal prosecutions of this kind were not common.

Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported.

<snip>

More: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/06/pennsylvania-mother-who-gave-daughter-abortion-pill-gets-prison/


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Reply Pennsylvania Mother Who Gave Daughter Abortion Pill Gets Prison - Reuters/HuffPo (Original post)
WillyT Sep 2014 OP
RKP5637 Sep 2014 #1
CanonRay Sep 2014 #103
Enthusiast Sep 2014 #130
Voice for Peace Sep 2014 #2
tooeyeten Sep 2014 #164
Initech Sep 2014 #3
marym625 Sep 2014 #95
PoutrageFatigue Sep 2014 #4
Live and Learn Sep 2014 #5
abelenkpe Sep 2014 #18
CBHagman Sep 2014 #20
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #113
LeftOfWest Sep 2014 #76
randys1 Sep 2014 #151
mackerel Sep 2014 #6
Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #7
840high Sep 2014 #10
ReRe Sep 2014 #53
HERVEPA Sep 2014 #86
SonofMarx Sep 2014 #112
Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #115
SonofMarx Sep 2014 #148
ReRe Sep 2014 #167
Ms. Toad Sep 2014 #168
ljm2002 Sep 2014 #14
cstanleytech Sep 2014 #23
beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #85
HERVEPA Sep 2014 #87
cstanleytech Sep 2014 #98
HERVEPA Sep 2014 #117
cstanleytech Sep 2014 #134
xmas74 Sep 2014 #121
AnotherMother4Peace Sep 2014 #122
beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #137
still_one Sep 2014 #50
kcr Sep 2014 #28
still_one Sep 2014 #33
Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #43
still_one Sep 2014 #48
kcr Sep 2014 #72
still_one Sep 2014 #79
kcr Sep 2014 #80
still_one Sep 2014 #81
kcr Sep 2014 #82
cstanleytech Sep 2014 #101
HERVEPA Sep 2014 #88
beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #90
HERVEPA Sep 2014 #94
beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #138
KittyWampus Sep 2014 #144
treestar Sep 2014 #166
MattBaggins Sep 2014 #66
marym625 Sep 2014 #96
Codeine Sep 2014 #102
marym625 Sep 2014 #110
kelliekat44 Sep 2014 #8
cstanleytech Sep 2014 #27
still_one Sep 2014 #49
Beaverhausen Sep 2014 #153
still_one Sep 2014 #162
EEO Sep 2014 #9
still_one Sep 2014 #35
Fred Sanders Sep 2014 #44
still_one Sep 2014 #47
Tumbulu Sep 2014 #11
msanthrope Sep 2014 #12
ljm2002 Sep 2014 #15
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eShirl Sep 2014 #24
msanthrope Sep 2014 #100
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still_one Sep 2014 #36
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Kalidurga Sep 2014 #13
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Live and Learn Sep 2014 #59
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kcr Sep 2014 #114
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kcr Sep 2014 #127
Feral Child Sep 2014 #145
kcr Sep 2014 #160
kcr Sep 2014 #126
Avalux Sep 2014 #132
kcr Sep 2014 #133
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kcr Sep 2014 #136
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kcr Sep 2014 #140
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kcr Sep 2014 #159
Live and Learn Sep 2014 #170
Freddie Sep 2014 #92
Avalux Sep 2014 #109
HockeyMom Sep 2014 #131
Feral Child Sep 2014 #146
Fred Drum Sep 2014 #34
still_one Sep 2014 #38
magical thyme Sep 2014 #93
handmade34 Sep 2014 #39
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still_one Sep 2014 #46
beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #58
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cstanleytech Sep 2014 #70
still_one Sep 2014 #77
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still_one Sep 2014 #91
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beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #56
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beam me up scottie Sep 2014 #68
marym625 Sep 2014 #97
sufrommich Sep 2014 #105
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Oktober Sep 2014 #116
whereisjustice Sep 2014 #128
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world wide wally Sep 2014 #141
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krispos42 Sep 2014 #149
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tooeyeten Sep 2014 #163
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EC Sep 2014 #171

Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:28 PM

1. Yet another WTF! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:15 AM

103. I think I'm up to about three a day.

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Response to CanonRay (Reply #103)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:58 AM

130. Me too.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:29 PM

2. Oh for crying out loud, this is insane and so wrong.

 



k/r

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Response to Voice for Peace (Reply #2)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 04:51 PM

164. It is insane

She needs a better lawyer, where's Gloria Allred?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:35 PM

3. Meanwhile a cop who killed not only walks free, has money to support his defense.

This is so fucked up on so many levels.

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Response to Initech (Reply #3)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:13 AM

95. Just makes me want to cry. eom

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:42 PM

4. WTF?

 

I'd expect to read that sort of headline out of Afghanistan.... but then again it is Pennsyltucky...

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 07:52 PM

5. And so it starts...

We have officially turned the clock backwards and are heading toward the dark ages.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #5)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:35 PM

18. Seems like society has been moving

Backwards since around mid 1980s. It's just picking up steam and gets more outrageous everyday.

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #18)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:40 PM

20. That's a cognitive distortion.

Some things seem to be moving backwards, but not everything. The treatment of this particular mother is outrageous, but in fact the morning-after pill is available over the counter, which is a move in the other direction. A setback does not obliterate all progress.

[url]http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23770130/morning-after-pill-goes-sale-thursday-pharmacies-and[/url]

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Response to abelenkpe (Reply #18)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:43 AM

113. Since Reagan's first election, it just took a bit of time to be visible. nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #5)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:32 AM

76. So it CONTINUES.

 

I will never shut up ever ever ever.

Because ever ever ever is still NEVER enough.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #5)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:50 PM

151. When everybody on this thread SCREAMS E N O U G H maybe we will actually

start to reverse the sick and twisted direction we have been forced to go in because of a minority of hate hate hate filled motherfucking rightwing teaparty republican kochsucking assholes

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:03 PM

6. How did the authorities even know about this? Did something happen to the daughter

that brought on an investigation?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:08 PM

7. The daughter had severe cramping and bleeding after taking the prescription only abortifacient and

hospitalized for treatment.

There is good medical reasons to have such drugs supervised by a physician.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:12 PM

10. This nurse agrees with you.

 

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Response to 840high (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:50 PM

53. I think all abortions...

... should be done in hospitals. It's a medical procedure. Why can't women go to the hospital and have a medical procedure done? Why do they have to go to a clinic surrounded by shouting insane religious zealots?

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Response to ReRe (Reply #53)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:26 AM

86. Because it's not necessary and would cost much more money.

 

Many medical procedures are done in doctors' offices.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #53)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:43 AM

112. The death penalty should be done in hospitals as well

 

Both are medical procedures. That way, in either case, abortion or death penalty, trained medical staff will be there to administer aid immediately if something goes wrong.

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Response to SonofMarx (Reply #112)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:46 AM

115. I would suspect that most medical personnel don't believe in the death penalty.

And you'd have a hard time finding many willing to participate.

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Response to Erich Bloodaxe BSN (Reply #115)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:12 PM

148. But if they had had med people at that execution in AZ he might have lived!!!

 

I'm sure if you paid enough some med people would volunteer.

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Response to SonofMarx (Reply #112)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 06:04 PM

167. Sounds plausible...

... Gee welcome to DU!

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Response to ReRe (Reply #53)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 06:47 PM

168. Just like we require all colonoscopies be done in a hospital,

Or surgical tooth extractions and implants (like I had in a free-standing clinic 2 weeks ago).

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:25 PM

14. You say "There is good medical reasons to have such drugs supervised by a physician."...

...and I say there are good medical reasons for women to have access to safe, legal abortions.

From the article, and cited in the OP:

"Whalen told authorities there was no local clinic available to perform an abortion and her daughter did not have health insurance to cover a hospital abortion, the Press Enterprise newspaper of Bloomsburg reported."

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:51 PM

23. According to google maps the nearest planned parenthood center is only an hours drive

but even if thats still to far for her to take her daughter or if it would have cost to much the women was still negligent by doing this and her daughter ended up having to go to a hospital to get treated because of the mothers actions as well dont forget.
Now that aside I'm not saying I agree with the sentence as I do not believe that putting her in jail will serve justice but rather she should have been given parole at most but thats just my opinion.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:02 AM

85. Yes thank dog for google, how else would we be so well informed about women's issues.


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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:27 AM

87. That's four hours total driving, brcause of PA's stupid laws

 

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #87)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:59 AM

98. Where is the one that is 4 hours away? I found one that was a 1 hour drive one way.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #98)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:54 AM

117. One hour each way.

 

My mistake. actually six hours.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-southeastern-pennsylvania/get-involved-support-us/pa-abortion-control-act

A woman who believes she may be facing an unintended pregnancy will go to a family planning clinic for a pregnancy test. (She must have a professional test -- home pregnancy tests are not reliable enough for medical procedures.) If her pregnancy test is positive and she requests further information, a counselor will give her information about all of her options -- adoption, abortion, and motherhood.

If, given her life circumstances, she chooses abortion, she will be told she must make two appointments, one for a counseling session and the other for the procedures, which must be at least 24 hours after the counseling session. If the next available surgical date is 2 days, 3 days, or one week away, she must wait until that date.

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #117)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:22 AM

134. Well thats just silly. nt

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:19 AM

121. Does that PP actually offer abortion services?

That is, outside of referral? Most don't.

I know, for example, that my local PP offers referral but not the procedure. If I wanted to stay in-state and obtain one I'd have to drive about four hours, to St Louis. Oh, and in my state we are about to pass a 72 hour law so that sucks.

If I wanted something closer I'd have to cross state lines.

I think people forget that it's much harder to obtain than everyone thinks, especially for rural folks. In my neck of the woods buying pills online and performing one yourself would definitely be a viable option, hoping that all goes well. Heck, it's better than coat hangers, knitting needles, Drano (and yes, I knew someone who tried it) or just plain throwing yourself down the stairs-numerous stairs, usually the football stadium.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #23)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:26 AM

122. correction: "because of the actions of religious nutbags" I'm sure that's what you meant.

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Response to AnotherMother4Peace (Reply #122)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:41 AM

137. Yes, I'm sure it was.

I'm sure that poster wouldn't want us to think he's blaming women for not having adequate access to health care that's only provided by women's clinics because of religious nutbags.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #14)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:42 PM

50. Incorrect information was given her. There are Planned Parenthood clinics throughout Pennsylvania,

and they do not have to worry about costs if they cannot afford it

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:05 PM

28. That's not a reason to send the mother to jail for 18 months

If there's good reason, then it should be easier to get an RX or make abortions more accessible.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:16 PM

33. Absolutely. This is NOT the morning after pill, and not utilizing a doctor is child endangerment. A

lot of folks are assuming this is the morning after pill which effectively prevent conception, this actually causing a miscarriage, and must be under medical supervision

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Response to still_one (Reply #33)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:33 PM

43. The entire article which for some reason neglects to mention the

stage of the pregnancy and calls a powerful drug a "pill" is mostly to blame.....every news item these days seems to be harbouring an agenda.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #43)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:37 PM

48. Agreed. This is NOT the morning after pill

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Response to still_one (Reply #48)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:52 PM

72. I know it's not the morning after pill. I don't care.

It's a travesty that this woman is being hauled off to jail for 18 months for this.

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Response to kcr (Reply #72)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:45 AM

79. The sentence is bullshit, but most likely unintentionally the mother put her child's life at risk.

She should try and contact the ACLU or legal aid to see if they can help her appeal the decision

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Response to still_one (Reply #79)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:47 AM

80. I'm not disputing that it was a dangerous thing to do

This is the perfect time to point out why it's important that abortions are safe, legal and accessible. Not shame the mother and daughter.

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Response to kcr (Reply #80)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:51 AM

81. I know you are not. That is why elections have consequences, and the next president through the SC

appointments will set the future of not only a woman's right to choose, but also a woman;s health

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Response to still_one (Reply #81)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:52 AM

82. I agree

No argument there.

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Response to still_one (Reply #79)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:11 AM

101. "The sentence is bullshit" OH I agree 100% with you there.

I mean yes she broke a law and endangered her daughters life but I dont believe it was done maliciously and imo she shouldnt have been sentenced to jail as that serves no purpose.
Good idea about the ACLU though as they might be able to help.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #43)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:30 AM

88. The powerful drug is given in pill form, so it's a pill.

 

And you should be the last one talking about agendas.

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #88)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:45 AM

90. Seriously, wtf?

Who uses the term abortifacient ?

What's next, calling it the abortion pill and posting photo-shopped images of tiny aborted babies?


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #90)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:08 AM

94. As a Pllanned Parenthood patient escort volunter,

 

it's the anti's only who use the term.
Someone a bit above on here. is showing his true colors even more than usual.

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #94)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:47 AM

138. There's more than one.

Back in the day I volunteered at a clinic that had its patient records stolen and given to the terrorists who intimidated women on a daily basis. They actually put the patients' names on their signs.

We've come a long way baby, right?

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #94)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:35 PM

144. abortifacient is a term used in herbology. It refers to something that induces miscarriage.

 

So you are quite wrong.

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Response to still_one (Reply #33)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 05:31 PM

166. I would tend to agree but it appears

that's not the case in Europe - you can use them there without doctor supervision.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #7)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:55 PM

66. Agreed. This story is a whole lot of "but on the other hand"

The mother was wrong for giving her kid the meds, but damn it we should have a healthcare system that would have made them safely available to the girl under a doctors care.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #7)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:18 AM

96. except in some places it's available otc

So does that mean every woman that takes it after purchasing otc is reckless?

Not in the US. Just asking in general

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Response to marym625 (Reply #96)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:14 AM

102. That's not the pill being discussed.

 

This isn't the morning after pill. This is the chemical used to induce abortions.

The real crime here is the fact that abortion services are not universally available and utterly routine. It's a minor medical procedure that shouldn't be the of the slightest concern to anyone not directly involved.

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Response to Codeine (Reply #102)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:40 AM

110. I realize it's not the morning after pill

I understand that this is a combination of two different medicines taken 2 days apart and that in the US it's not available otc.

I also know that once you receive the medication from a physician, you go home and administer the pills. They are not taken in a facility where you are watched.

It is, or was, available otc in other countries.

I completely agree. The crimes are the laws that would put a mother in jail for helping her daughter in an impossible situation that were caused by the invasive, idiotic, controlling laws that have made abortion services unavailable.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:08 PM

8. Two glaring points stick out

 

no abortion clinics and no health insurance.. Mother goes to jail for being poor and probably minority.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:03 PM

27. Hmmm I kinda doubt there is a large demand for an abortion clinic

there seeing as the town only has a population of around 273.
As for the lack of health insurance thats thanks to Governor Corbett for giving a big middle finger to the people in the state especially to the poor.

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:40 PM

49. Actually Pennsylvania has planned parenthood. The drug she gave her daughter is a serious drug that

can cause life-threatening side-effects, and must be used under a doctor's supervision

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Response to still_one (Reply #49)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:22 PM

153. Pennsylvania is a large state geographically

and since it takes up to 4 trips to the clinic to get the procedure, don't assume it's so easy for these women to get to PP.

Do you know whether or not they own a car?

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #153)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 03:08 PM

162. don't know

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:09 PM

9. This country is insane.

Force the kid into the society so you can fuck it over for the rest of its life. I think Confucius said that...

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Response to EEO (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:18 PM

35. not necessarily. It is about not doing this under a doctor's supervision. This medication induces

a miscarriage and needs to be under a doctor's supervision because complications can arise

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Response to still_one (Reply #35)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:34 PM

44. Induced miscarriages are not to be administered by your mother.....the whole article is click bait.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #44)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:36 PM

47. I didn't click the link, but I agree with you

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:13 PM

11. How terribly sad- and it makes me furious!

Good grief, why this sentence ?????? Why even prosecute?

Why aren't the medial communities being sued for not properly providing for patients? Forcing them to go to these lengths?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:13 PM

12. She got prison because she waited two weeks to take the kid to a hospital

 

after she experienced complications.

I'm not saying I agree with the sentence, but I doubt she'd win an appeal.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #12)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:29 PM

15. According to the article...

..."Whalen was sentenced on Friday by Montour County Court of Common Pleas Judge Gary Norton to serve 12 months to 18 months in prison for violating a state law that requires abortions to be performed by physicians."

This article does not mention anything about her waiting 2 weeks. But even if she did, that does not seem to be the legal basis of her conviction.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:32 PM

17. You are conflating her conviction with her sentencing. nt

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #17)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:57 PM

24. She was sentenced for something other than what she was convicted for?


I know these are crazy times we live in

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Response to eShirl (Reply #24)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:09 AM

100. No. But when you are sentenced, the judge can and will take into account

 

your behavior and.actions toward the victim.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #17)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:54 AM

83. I'm not conflating anything...

...just noting that the article in question (the only article that has been cited in this thread) says nothing about the mother waiting 2 weeks to get treatment for her daughter -- it says she was sentenced for breaking a law about who can perform abortions.

Presumably her sentence has something to do with what she was charged with and what she was convicted for.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #83)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:08 AM

99. Indeed...her actions before and after regarding her daughter definitely

 

contributed to her sentence.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #15)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:20 PM

36. This pill should have been given under a doctor's supervision. It can cause major hemorrhaging.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #12)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:32 PM

156. Where did you get the 'two weeks' info?

I don't see it in the article in the OP.

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #156)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 03:06 PM

161. I'm a criminal defense attorney here in PA.

 

I've written about this case before when I'm not on my phone I'll try to find you the link to my prior Posts on it.

This case started as a investigation into child abuse as the daughter was brought to the ER in pretty miserable condition approximately two weeks after the drugs were administered. Apparently both the mother and the daughter lied about the circumstances.... But eventually the daughter confessed.

Ordering drugs off the internet for your kid and then letting them bleed for two weeks Is not a recommended course of action.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:16 PM

13. It's a good thing abortions are legal

otherwise she could have been in big trouble.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:30 PM

16. If the state is acting as the protector of the family

By denying women their right to self determination, it is illogical to punish any woman for choosing an abortion when when the state also chooses to destroy that family by incarcerating the mom and sentencing the girl into the questionable mercies of the foster system.

The world's gone mad!

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Response to procon (Reply #16)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:35 PM

45. How are they denying them their rights?

Abortions can still be performed safely by doctors in the state right? I mean I thought that the was what women fought for, the right to go and get a safe legal abortion if they so choose?

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #45)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:44 PM

51. Planned Parenthood would have been the best course for them to pursue

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Response to still_one (Reply #51)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:53 PM

65. Not all PP offers those types of services.

My local does not. If I wanted abortion services I would have to drive over the state line. Yes, I would have an easier time of obtaining an abortion in Kansas than I would in Missouri.

I can't imagine what someone in a more rural area would have to go through.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #65)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:59 PM

73. I think some think PP is the equivalent of McDonalds for women's health services

A lot of people don't realize just how much women's rights have been eroded in this country. They don't have the first clue so people who haven't been able to access needed care must be idiots who are at fault.

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Response to kcr (Reply #73)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:09 AM

120. In my case,

my town has a local PP. They do abortion referrals. If you look down the list every PP in the area has abortion referral. If I actually wanted (or needed) an abortion and wanted to stay in Missouri I would have to drive to St Louis, which is about four hours away. The nearest provider for me would be Overland Park, KS. (I went there with a friend right out of high school with her mother. Such good people who actually did their darnedest to keep everyone calm and in good spirits, even with the a-holes outside protesting.) Anyway, minors crossing state lines can also raise some questions and flag some grey areas, in some cases legally.

The poster's repeated comments about PP make him/her no different than the protesters who stand outside my local PP protesting: neither have any idea that the procedure isn't performed in most local offices and neither seems to care.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #45)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:11 PM

57. Do we know if the local Planned Parenthood is a decent one?

There are several I've been to that I would never recommend for anyone, not even something as minor as a pap smear.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:36 PM

19. .

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:45 PM

21. .

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 08:45 PM

22. Was this an elected prosecutor and judge from a Jeeezus county?

 

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:00 PM

25. unfuckingbelievable

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Response to WillyT (Original post)


Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:05 PM

29. Holy Mary Mother of God

I implore you to stop the madness....

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:06 PM

30. wtf

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:09 PM

31. The question is did the daughter consent, or was the pill given without her knowledge. Another

issue is that this type of medication must be under a doctor's care because of potential complications. This isn't the morning after pill, and it could be considered child endangerment

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:16 PM

32. I agree with the sentence.

The medication she gave her daughter (mifepristone) must be prescribed by a physician and given under the supervision of a physician by law. There are side effects that could be serious if she was more than 9 weeks pregnant, or if the process is incomplete. Also, antibiotics are taken at the same time to prevent infection.

As a medical professional, I can't defend this mother.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:22 PM

37. Absolutely. From these posts they obviously are not comprehending that this isn't so much about

abortion, but risking her child's life from hemorrhaging and other complications



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Response to still_one (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:26 PM

40. They may be confusing it with the 'morning after' pill, which it isn't. n/t

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Response to Avalux (Reply #40)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:28 PM

41. I suspect that also. RU486, Mifepristone

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Response to Avalux (Reply #40)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:29 AM

75. Why would we be confusing it with a morning after pill? it doesn't say it's the morning after pill.

Only anti abortion activists tend to confuse the two.

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Response to kcr (Reply #75)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:41 AM

78. .

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Response to Avalux (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:50 PM

52. Well, the mother is apparently NOT a medical professional

and was probably unaware of the danger. Regardless, prison time and a lifelong criminal record for her lack of medical knowledge seems a bit of overkill to me. Why are we so intent on punishing people as opposed to teaching them?

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #52)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:55 PM

54. What if her child had died?

I think the big picture is being missed here. If the word abortion is taken out of this situation, do you not agree that giving a child a prescription medication that could have serious side effects if not given under the care of a physician is child endangerment? The mother broke the law out of desperation and in turn could have seriously injured or killed her daughter.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #54)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:27 PM

59. Actually, she was somewhat in the medical profession

since she was a nursing home aide, so she probably should have known better.

I can't find any information on exactly what pills were purchased but they appear to be pills available from Europe without a prescription which means they probably aren't as dangerous as you are implying.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #59)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:11 PM

69. Wow.

I'm baffled at your logic! Let's take a look:

mother bought pills off internet from Europe without prescription = aren't very dangerous

How can you say that and not realize it makes no sense? Especially when you have no knowledge of the drug or the regulations governing drugs?





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Response to Avalux (Reply #69)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:37 AM

89. You don't have any knowledge of the drug used either.

And, Europe isn't known for selling dangerous drugs without prescriptions. I know enough about the FDA to not particularly trust them.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #89)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:15 AM

104. Yes I do.

Regulations governing the approval and sale of drugs in the US and EU are virtually the same, the US is stricter. The ONLY drug regimen approved to induce medical abortion in at least 35 countries is a Mifepristone/Misopristol. In these countries, a prescription and physician oversight is required by law.

Mifepristone is a synthetic steroid that blocks progesterone thereby altering the lining of the uterus and inducing miscarriage in women < 9 weeks pregnant. After 9 weeks, there is a chance that not all components of the pregnancy will be expelled and there may be severe complications. By itself the drug is about 60% effective, so another drug, Misopristol, a prostoglandin analog, is given with it to soften the cervix and make the uterus contract. Both drugs together are 95% effective.

There are reasons why these drugs are prescription only, and that in both Europe and the US, they are given under the care of a physican, requiring follow-up after the procedure to ensure that it was successful.

You can say all you want about this subject, but please first do some research and understand it.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #104)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:31 AM

123. And where exactly did you find that it was Mifepristone that was used?

The only information I could find after attempting to research this case was that it was a pill bought online (without a prescription) from Europe. Per your own admission therefore, it shouldn't have been Mifepristone.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #89)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:08 AM

119. I'm sorry, but your comment is naive.

There is a thriving pharmaceutical shadow industry on the internet. You can buy everything from antibiotics to morphine from legitimate manufacturers. These "pharmacies" operate from Europe, India, the Philippines and, at least for a time, from little South Pacific islands you've never heard of. Often, the trade isn't illegal in the home country and DEA (spit) is powerless to stop it, though they spitefully interdict and interfere as much as they can.

There are also stone-cold criminals that send compounds other than what they promise.

This woman did a criminally stupid thing. She got busted and is going to serve the time. I personally think the sentence is unduly harsh. Remember that this conviction will probably mean she'll never work in her career field again. She'll have to start over.

She should have gotten a probation and community service.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #119)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:39 AM

125. Of course, Europe is just so much behind us in their medical care.



Why would you assume I was naive about internet sales? I haven't seen anything in any article mentioning the fact that this was some kind of nefarious drug just that it was illegal in PA without a prescription.

The US does an excellent job of protecting the medical and drug manufacturing industries at the expense of the people (especially the poor).

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #125)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:32 PM

143. Where did you get that

"Europe is just so much behind us in their medical care" from my post? I can only wish someday we'll have comparable care, but that hope is forlorn; our medical industry is too profit-motivated to ever grant us effective care.

I was responding to your statement, "And, Europe isn't known for selling dangerous drugs without prescriptions." Unless I missed an attempt at sarcasm, the post IS naive. You can buy many dangerous pharmaceuticals from internet companies based in Europe, including our British colony.

The drug is not "illegal" in PA, anymore than morphine is; it's merely regulated and she illegally circumvented those regulations.

Her daughter would have been better served had she invested her research time looking for legal avenues. This isn't the desert southwest or the Deep South. No place on the eastern seaboard is unreachable from elsewhere in the region. Mass transit is readily available between major cities, with stops in the suburban/exurban areas.

I apologize if my comment offended you, I wasn't trying to pick a fight. I'm sure many of our members aren't very aware of the intricate "underground" aspects of the internet and you're post sounded, from my perspective, to be unaware of the networks that exist.

Again, I think the abortion aspect of this case is incidental, the woman was charged with practicing medicine w/o a license, not with having assisted her daughter with an abortion. Had she done so without breaking the law, she wouldn't have been charged.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #32)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:47 PM

71. I can't defend the mother, but the sentencing

Serves zero purpose. She is not a threat to society. Probation would have been sufficient.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #32)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:02 AM

74. It seems to me a medical professional with a Wendy Davis sig

would be more appalled at the conditions that led to this situation rather than supporting the jailing of this mother.

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Response to kcr (Reply #74)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:29 AM

107. Oh really? You don't get it either. See my reply #104.

I take patient safety very seriously, this woman was just plain stupid and she broke the law.

I wish she had been able to afford an aspiration abortion for her daughter, or been able to obtain these drugs legally through a physician. Why didn't she take her to Planned Parenthood, as others have suggested? I don't understand that; they work with you on what you can afford.

Abortion is a safe medical procedure if performed by those qualified (this includes taking medication). It can only remain safe if laws remain in place regulating the procedures, just like every other medical procedure and drug in this country.

A woman has a right to end her pregnancy if she chooses, and we must all work to ensure that abortion procedures are not outlawed. If that were to happen (it already is in some places), then this sort of nightmare scenario will be the norm and women will die, as they did before Roe v. Wade. I want to make sure it stays safe, legal and easy to obtain.


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Response to Avalux (Reply #107)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:33 AM

108. You're right. I don't get it. I don't see what your being a medical profesional

has to do with it. It doesn't take a medical professional to see that what the mother did wasn't a good idea. I appreciate your dedication as a medical professional but it has squat to do with your opinion on the issue of whether she should go to jail so don't pin your status of medical professional on your law and order authoritarian opinion.

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Response to kcr (Reply #108)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:41 AM

111. What do you think should have happened here?

She did break drug laws, not only here but in the EU, and she endangered her child. What if she was giving her child illegally obtained hydrocodone and the kid ended up in the ER? Should she go to jail in that scenario?

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Response to Avalux (Reply #111)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:45 AM

114. Since when do people who break laws automatically go to jail every time?

Only in authoritarian fantasy land. If abortion were readily available you'd have a point. But it isn't. It isn't right to restrict access to abortion and then punish people when they end their pregnancies out of desperation. I do think that parents who willfully harm their children out of disregard for their wellbeing should be punished. When they're trying to help their child out of desperation, that is a mitigating factor that should be considered. There are those with a mindset that things like that should never be taken into consideration because rules are rules and law is the law. That is repugnant.

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Response to kcr (Reply #114)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:01 AM

118. From an emotional standpoint, I understand what you're saying.

However, abortions must be performed by physicians, and the mom, who is not a physician, gave her child an at home abortion. She could have received 15 years in jail for it.

This case emphasizes the need to keep abortions easy to obtain, legal (only docs), and affordable so that no woman has to resort to an at home abortion.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #118)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:33 AM

124. You are being extremely patient.

Those that are arguing with you are allowing their dedication and the purity of their purpose to cloud their thinking.

This woman, despite whatever intentions she had, acted in a criminally irresponsible fashion. She put her daughter's life at risk.

I wish we had universal health-care.

I wish she had unrestricted access to affordable medical services. She didn't.

She made a choice and acted on it. I'm pretty certain that had she spent the resources in researching PP Clinics that she expended on finding these drugs on the underground she wouldn't be facing the problems she has now.

Again, the sentence is much too harsh, but the illegality and irresponsibility of her actions are beyond question.

Before anyone jumps me, please understand that I'm a committed supporter of women's reproductive rights. I'm aware that abortion rights are under attack and the future appears dire. My wife had a tubal ligation in her early thirties and I had a vasectomy (provided by Planned Parenthood) in my late twenties. We are a childless couple and happily so.

I contribute to PP and the ACLU.

I just don't believe that the defendant exhausted all legal recourse before breaking a sensible law: we need to remember that the law she broke has nothing to do with abortion, but rather concerns establishing acceptable regulations for medical practice.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #124)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:50 AM

127. I say the opposite

I think some are allowing their dedication to the rule of law cloud their empathy and compassion. You just don't believe that the defendant exhausted all legal recourse? That's your judgment being clouded. Privilege likely isn't helping.

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Response to kcr (Reply #127)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:35 PM

145. Privilege?

You don't know me, so your attempt to portray me as an elitist is intentionally provocative; hence, our discussion is over before it's begun.

Unlike some here, I don't engage in bickering. I hope your spleen is properly vented so you can have a nicer day for the remainder. Adieu.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #145)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:56 PM

160. Yes. Privilege.

Thinking that she can just look up PP and get an abortion there tends to come from positions of privilege. I don't have to know people personally to know that it's a sign they don't understand why that's a problem. It's really easy when someone has easy access to transpiration to not understand why a clinic more than an hour away might as well be on Mars for some people, for example.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #118)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:45 AM

126. Abortions must be performed by physicians

So let's get right on that. In the meantime , insisting that those who do for themselves out of desperation get punished is evil. I'm sorry. It boggles my mind to see it from a health care provider who professes to be pro choice. It sure won't help getting access to abortions and in fact helps the anti-choice crowd in demonizing abortions.

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Response to kcr (Reply #126)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:10 AM

132. Supporting medical procedure and drug safety laws is pro-choice.

There shouldn't be a need - that mother should never have felt so desperate as to buy a regulated drug from an unknown source off the internet, and watch her daughter take it, not knowing exactly what would happen; worrying it may hurt her. But what was the alternative? The mother didn't think there was a better option, which is just heartbreaking.

I've stated repeatedly that my concern is patient safety, irrespective of the hot button topic of abortion. Any medical procedure is regulated as to who can perform it, when and why. We need to ensure that these safety laws remain, and get rid of the laws that outlaw abortion for nothing more than an idiotic religious reason.

How dare you accuse me of helping the anti-choice crowd.

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Response to Avalux (Reply #132)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:22 AM

133. I don't get how concern for patient safety equals throw them in jail

How dare I accuse you of it? Because it's true. Jailing someone for providing their own abortion, or helping someone else do so plays right into their hands. Sorry if you don't like hearing it.

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Response to kcr (Reply #133)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:27 AM

135. Was the patient thrown in jail? n/t

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Response to Avalux (Reply #135)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:29 AM

136. Um, her mother was n/t

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Response to kcr (Reply #136)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:55 AM

139. Use your critical thinking skills here, please.

The mother is not the patient. She intentionally took on the role of physician and treated her daughter. This act is illegal as it should be, and there are penalties associated with it, including jail time.

What if everyone decided to just start treating their kids on their own?

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Response to Avalux (Reply #139)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:11 PM

140. Use some empathy skills, please. I know you have them.

Oh, so she just got to watch her mother get hauled off, so that's okay then?

No, there shouldn't be jail time. This is a country where millions of Americans order their prescriptions online because they can't afford the hugely inflated prices in this country. Hardly ideal, is it? You want to throw them all in jail, too? On top of that we live in a country where abortion rights have been eliminated in all but name. We are back to a time where only a privileged few have unhindered access to it. But you still want to throw this mother in jail despite all of that. Because the law is the law. We don't even normally throw parents in jail unles it's egregious cases of abuse. Your position on this is unconscionable and I think if you stepped back and looked at the big picture you'd see it yourself.

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Response to kcr (Reply #140)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:25 PM

142. I'm sorry this topic is too emotional for you. I won't try to reason with you anymore. n/t

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Response to Avalux (Reply #142)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:54 PM

159. This topic is not too emotional for me

I'm pretty much generally straight across the board non authoritarian. I believe in taking into account mitigating circumstances. And believe it or not, the law does, too. Parents aren't generally thrown in jail every time they do something wrong. You think you're being logical but you aren't.

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Response to kcr (Reply #159)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:25 PM

170. +1 nt

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Response to Avalux (Reply #32)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 05:29 AM

92. I think she was more than 9 weeks along

Which caused the complications.
The fact that the girl was a minor is the big legal issue here. What if she were 18 and had bought the pills herself? Would she be prosecuted?

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Response to Freddie (Reply #92)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:37 AM

109. She probably would have been.

If she hadn't gone to the ER with complications, no one may have ever known she took the medication, or that her mother bought them illegally. It's unfortunate that people don't understand these drugs are not like taking an aspirin, and complications can be serious.
It's likely that two weeks post procedure, pregnancy tissue was not fully expelled and an infection developed.

Drug laws are there to protect people, the laws in the EU and the US are virtually identical, so even though the mom bought them from the EU, it still isn't legal over there to get them without a physician's care.



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Response to Freddie (Reply #92)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 11:07 AM

131. I thought RU485 wouldn't work after 7 weeks gestation?

 

Maybe that was the complication? Someone said "women having miscarriages need to be under a doctor's care". What? Not in the very early weeks when the embryo is so small. Most women might not even know they are miscarrying at only a few weeks. I had a miscarrige at 6 weeks and never went to the doctor.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #92)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:42 PM

146. Yes or no,

depending.

The trade in "black-market" medicinals is so prevalent that ICE doesn't, can't have the resources to control it or prosecute small parcels.

On the other hand, attention was brought to the case because of the need for emergency care. With that in mind, local officials very well might have brought charges, since self-medicating; ie, obtaining regulated drugs w/o a prescription, is quite illegal.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:18 PM

34. lack of money, commonly known as poverty, strikes again

any properly financed defense could have this undone

although her guilty plea adds huge additional procedural burdens, appeals should be filed

Matthew Bingham Banks, Whalen’s lawyer, would be the first

any lawyer advising his client to plea guilty here is at least suspect, if not incompetent

remove him and get a real judge

thats a start

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:25 PM

38. and why didn't the mother take her daughter to Planned Parenthood in Pennsylvania. They do have

Planned Parenthood in Pennsylvania.

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Response to still_one (Reply #38)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 06:09 AM

93. per the article, the nearest clinic was 74 miles away

 

The single mother works as a home health aide. Let me guess -- minimum wage or close to it.

I wonder how many hours/week she has to work to support herself and her daughter?

Not saying she shouldn't have made a better decision, and tried to get time off from work to take her daughter there. But, as pointed out below, desperate people do desperate things.

You shouldn't have to travel 74 miles to get to a clinic.

She knows she made a poor choice. Now, she and her daughter will be made destitute. After prison, she'll be lucky to get a job digging ditches.

And, of course, will not have anything for the $1,000 fine, so will end up in trouble again for her inability to pay that.

Well, I guess once they dump her back on the streets with nothing, she can go live under a bridge or off herself. That'll teach her.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:26 PM

39. just... wtf!

sad beyond comprehension... so wrong



we must fight harder....




the people who are making abortions more difficult are ignorant and hateful people

?w=1071&h=735

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:29 PM

42. Now this is overreaching big gov'ment.

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Response to SoapBox (Reply #42)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:35 PM

46. So giving a prescribed medicine that needs to be under a doctor's supervision to minor is overreach?

There is a reason this is a Prescription medication, because it has serious potential side-effects that can be life threatening, which is why it needs to be under a doctor's care.

Why the Mother did not go to Planned Parenthood is beyond me

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Response to still_one (Reply #46)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:18 PM

58. So what are women who live in areas that don't have Planned Parenthood clinics supposed to do?

Catch the next flight to a blue state?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #58)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:31 PM

60. Pennsylvania has planned parenthood in multiple locations throughout the state, so there is no next

flight to catch. Regardless, you don't give RU486 without being under the care of a doctor,

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Response to still_one (Reply #60)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:38 PM

62. I'm referring to states that don't have them at all.

Regardless, you don't give RU486 without being under the care of a doctor, just like you don't leave your kid in a hot car while shopping

What an idiotic analogy. I guess ignorance is bliss.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #62)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:47 PM

63. I removed that analogy before you told me. The focus of my comment was this situation, in a blue

state, Pennsylvania. You bring up a hypothetical, not in regard to this particular situation. As far as your ignorance is bliss, ignorance is giving your daughter a prescription medication that requires a doctors supervision

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Response to still_one (Reply #63)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:59 PM

67. It isn't hypothetical, there were no clinics within a day's drive of where I lived.

Last edited Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Hell just a few years ago I couldn't even get the morning after pill without a prescription even though it's supposed to be available over the counter.

Ignorance is not understanding how desperate women are and what they're willing to do when they have no other options.

I almost died from a botched abortion when I was 18, I was scared and alone and I risked my life because there was no other way out.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #67)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:13 PM

70. Where do you live that is that remote? Antarctica?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #67)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:40 AM

77. I was only referring to this thread in my comments. I realize what is happening in the red states,

People like Wendy Davis can change things but only if they win, and the problem is the draconian behavior of much of the populous in those states. It sure won't happen soon in the red states, and the only way to change it faster is at the Federal level which is where many are trying to make the change, but unless people, and especially women start voting what is in their best interest it will only get worse.

A perfect example is a person who lives off Social Security and has health care through Medicare, and yet they vote for republicans who have no qualms saying they will privatize social security and medicare, and and effectively cut benefits. That is voting against one's own interests.

There is no ambiguity on the republican platform, that they want to ban abortion, even in cases of rape, incest, and the life of the mother. A large percentage of the republican party also want to ban birth control. They have been extremely vocal about it, and yet many of these states still keep electing these jerks. Missouri might have been a bell weather, when Akin made his "brilliant" rape statement. It was as if a switch turned on, and at that moment the women in Missouri realized their bodies and health were under attack, and they united at the polls and Akin lost.

Even though I think we well retain the Senate, however, there are republicans running who are against a women's right to choose, and unless women unite like they did in Missouri, it will remain a danger to women in those states who do not have the means

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Response to still_one (Reply #77)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:57 AM

84. Thank you for your informative post, I wish everyone would take a minute to educate themselves

Many people have no idea that they're forcing clinics to close by passing new laws.

Check this out from the Alliance For Justice website:

Forty years ago, the Supreme Court affirmed women’s constitutional right to safe and legal abortion in the landmark case Roe v. Wade. But today, Roe is at risk, with hundreds of new laws restricting abortion rights introduced in the past year alone.

***

Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers—or “TRAP”—Laws

What are they?

Passed under the guise of protecting health and safety, these laws regulating abortion clinics or providers are actually thinly-veiled attempts to shut down abortion clinics.

They needlessly require abortion clinics to meet the same standards as hospitals, or require providers to attain staff privileges at local hospitals, often an impossible feat.

When clinics cannot meet these regulations, they are forced to close. As Mississippi Lt. Governor Tate Reeves said as he signed a Mississippi TRAP bill into law, “We have the opportunity with the signing of this bill to end abortion in Mississippi.”



Where are these?

About 28 states have some version of TRAP laws.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, as of March 1, 2014, 27 states have policies requiring unnecessary regulations of abortion clinics, 24 states require abortion clinics to meet the same standards as ambulatory surgical centers, and 13 states unnecessarily require clinic physicians to attain either some kind of affiliation with a local hospital or attain admitting privileges.

***

Bans on Types and Times of Abortion

What are they?

Some states have enacted outright bans on abortion after a certain point in pregnancy. Some states have attempted to outlaw abortion after six weeks, when many women don’t even know they’re pregnant. Other states have adopted bans after 12 or 20 weeks.

Some states have restricted access to medication abortion, such as RU-486, which allows women to safely terminate a pregnancy early in the first trimester without the risks or costs of a surgical procedure.

***

Where are these?

North Dakota has banned abortions after six weeks of pregnancy; the law is being challenged in federal court. Arkansas has adopted a ban on abortion after 12 weeks of pregnancy. Nine states explicitly ban abortion after 20 weeks.

Five states have enacted laws restricting access to medication abortion by requiring physicians to follow outdated labeling protocols.

***

Mandatory Ultrasound Laws

What is it?

Some states require that before a woman may have an abortion, she must undergo an ultrasound, listen to the provider describe the fetus, and often then wait a certain period of time until she is allowed to actually attain the abortion.

Ultrasounds are rarely medically necessary for abortion. Some states require women to undergo an ultrasound prior to an abortion even when it is unnecessary, and additionally, some states require a waiting period of up to 24 hours between the ultrasound and the abortion. This causes an unnecessary delay in attaining abortion, often causing additional expense to the woman.

***

Where are these?

Five states have enacted laws requiring that providers must perform an ultrasound, display the image, and describe the fetus to the woman before performing an abortion.

Arizona, Louisiana, North Dakota, Virginia, and Texas require woman wait at least 24 hours to attain an abortion after the ultrasound.

***

The Fight in the Courts

Many of the laws restricting abortion have been challenged in federal and state court. That’s why it’s critically important to appoint federal judges who will uphold longstanding precedent guaranteeing women’s right to safe and legal abortion. The state laws being challenged in federal court include:

Arizona: The Ninth Circuit struck down an Arizona law prohibiting abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy. The state petitioned the Supreme Court for review, but the Court refused to hear the case, leaving the Ninth Circuit decision in place.

Arkansas: A federal judge in March 2014 permanently blocked Arkansas’s law, the “Arkansas Human Heartbeat Protection Act,” which bans abortion after 12 weeks of pregnancy.

Mississippi: Fighting to keep the state’s lone abortion clinic open, advocates are challenging a TRAP law passed in 2012 that requires the clinic’s providers to attain admitting privileges at a local hospital. A federal judge blocked the state from closing the clinic while its providers attempt to get admitting privileges. : The Fifth Circuit heard oral arguments in the case in April 2014.

North Carolina: North Carolina’s coercive ultrasound law that requires an ultrasound at least four hours before an abortion—without exception in cases of rape, health of the mother, or fatal fetal abnormalities—is being challenged in federal court. A federal judge struck down the law as unconstitutional. The governor announced his opposition to appealing the ruling, but that decision will ultimately be made by the state attorney general.

Texas: Texas’s law that imposes TRAP requirements, limits access to medication abortion, and bans abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy has been challenged in federal court. The Fifth Circuit has lifted the District Court’s grant of an injunction on the admitting privileges part of the law. Advocates petitioned the Supreme Court to temporarily block the law, but the Court left the Fifth Circuit decision in place. In March 2014, the Fifth Circuit upheld the admitting privileges and medication abortion restrictions as constitutional.

Wisconsin: Wisconsin’s TRAP law that would force two of four health centers providing abortion in Wisconsin to close is being challenged. A federal district court judge temporarily blocked the law pending trail; the state appealed to the Seventh Circuit, which affirmed the lower court. The state is now seeking appellate review from the United States Supreme Court. Meanwhile, the trial on the merits of the law took place in May 2014.

http://www.afj.org/multimedia/first-monday-films/roe-at-risk-the-threats-the-courts-and-you

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #84)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:57 AM

91. You are correct. Rachel Maddow on MSNBC is one of the few people who expose what has been and is

happening in many states

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Response to still_one (Reply #63)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:27 PM

154. From Naral: "82 percent of Pennsylvania counties have no abortion provider"

Naral gives Pennsylvania an 'F' on choice related laws.

Here are some of the key points they make. More at link.
http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/government-and-you/state-governments/state-profiles/pennsylvania.html



Political Info and Laws in Brief

Executives
Governor Tom Corbett (R) is anti-choice.
Legislature
The Pennsylvania House is anti-choice.
The Pennsylvania Senate is mixed-choice.
ANTI-CHOICE LAWS
Biased Counseling & Mandatory Delay
Pennsylvania law subjects women seeking abortion services to biased-counseling requirements and mandatory delays.
Details »

Counseling Ban/Gag Rule
Pennsylvania prohibits certain state employees and organizations receiving state funds from counseling or referring women for abortion services.
Details »

Crisis Pregnancy Centers
Pennsylvania funds CPCs directly and refers women to CPCs.
Details »

Insurance Prohibition for Abortion
Pennsylvania restricts insurance coverage of abortion for some individuals.
Details »


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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:00 PM

55. The legal system in this country is absolutely insane..

Racist, misogynistic, favors the rich and powerful... If you can't afford health care you're treated like a criminal.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:07 PM

56. Don't be a one issue voter they said, they'll never take away your right to choose they said...

How's that working out for us now?

A fucking felony, goddamn them all to hell.

I can't begin to express how furious I am right now, women who exercise their reproductive rights are once again criminals in this country.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:33 PM

61. Ms. Whalen is lucky her daughter didn't die.

She would rightfully be charged with manslaughter if the girl had died. There is a reason that this drug is only supposed to be given under a doctor's supervision. Apparently the daughter had serious complications, and the mother didn't immediately take her to the hospital.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 10:52 PM

64. A Coathanger In A Bottle

Desperate people do desperate things. That is what this is all about. But the remedy is not prison time. That is ridiculous. Next we will probably learn that she is just fodder for a private prison.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #64)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 11:01 PM

68. "Desperate people do desperate things."

Thank you.

This will happen much more frequently now that so many clinics have had to shut their doors in red states.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 08:56 AM

97. God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes

Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose

Everlast - What It's Like official video with lyr…:


A little disgusted at the judgments

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:17 AM

105. This is truly horrific.A nightmare straight

out of a Handmaids Tale. This is where we're heading,women thrown in jail for daring to opting not to be incubators.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:26 AM

106. Guess its good to be an abortion doc in Pennsylvania.

Whether there is one available, or you can pay, is not their laws' concern. The laws concern is that you help that doc meet his or her monthly bills.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:50 AM

116. Handing out pills from the Internet is never a good idea...

 

The separate issue is the health coverage lacking.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:56 AM

128. The USA has criminalized being poor - if she spends 1 day in jail...

that will be longer than anyone who tortured or ripped off the treasury for trillions of dollars causing economic disaster that only the rich seem to have recovered from.

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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #128)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 10:58 AM

129. And she's lost her job and any other job in her field.

She's a nurse's aid. The neglect charge will always show up with a background check now and she'll never be able to work in the field again. So, even after serving her sentence, what will she do to earn a living for herself and her family?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 12:20 PM

141. I'm sure that everyone who agrees with this decision are the same people who say they oppose

"Big Government"

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #141)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:12 PM

147. I agree w/ the decision

but not with the harshness of the sentence.

Also, I don't oppose "Big Government". I believe that the only justification for government at all is to protect the general public and provide services to the people. Unfortunately, our government is convinced that it exists to further the interests of the Elite.

I actually believe that all abortions should be provided by or funded by the government, and should be at the discretion of the specific woman involved, solely.

I also believe that government should oversee and regulate some activities, particularly medical care. I DO NOT want woo-peddlers or amateurs providing health care. I want doctors/nurses/et al to be tested, reviewed and licensed by the government.

To put that in a framework that your partisanship will understand, it's the only way to keep coat-hanger charlatans from destroying the lives of women who have a need for abortion. Allowing this woman's transgressions to go unchallenged would be granting carte blanche for the back-alley abortion mills to resurrect themselves.

Your blanket condemnation is intended to insult and belittle those with opposing viewpoints. I find that a bit shameful. Perhaps you could adjust your tone, in the interest of rational discussion.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #147)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:57 PM

152. I think you missed my point. It was said with sarcasm, and I pretty much agree with what you said,

but not with sending the mother to prison

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #152)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:33 PM

157. Apologies.

Lots of hooks and jabs in that thread, I've been bobbing and weaving. Yes, the sentence is much too harsh. We have to realize that this woman can never get a job in her chosen field again. Start from scratch. The judge could have enforced the medical-practice statutes and still shown compassion. Probation w/counseling and community service would have been just.

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Response to Feral Child (Reply #157)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:51 PM

158. None needed

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:16 PM

149. Putting parents in prison = republican family values n/t

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 01:45 PM

150. The idiocy of people against abortion coupled with their stupidity about birth control is causing

women to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. They give no reasonable options. But "reasonable" is exactly what they are *not*.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 02:31 PM

155. THIS is the crazy-right wing's plan to take care of our wives and daughters

If you are tired of religious nuts telling you how to live your life, and what medical services your daughter can and can't have, then VOTE Democrat in the upcoming election.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 04:48 PM

163. The inseminator?

Where is he, what did the prosecutor and judge do to him?

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 05:20 PM

165. Wth?!?

Because a stoning in public doesn't pack a punch like it does in the third world ((eyes rolling)). The anti-choice advocates are running roughshod over women's choices. This burns me up. They are also messing with parental rights IMO.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Sun Sep 7, 2014, 09:21 PM

169. I don't know who knows but I will say it; there are 2 pills given in this procedure.

The first one stops the fetus's heartbeat. This is given in the office under the supervision of the doctor.

The drug that causes the fetus to be expelled is taken at home by the woman.

The severe cramping and bleeding does not happen in the presence of a doctor. The most painful part of the medication abortion occurs in the privacy of the home.

I wish these women had had access to a medical professional who could have guided them through this process, because this really does suck.

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Response to WillyT (Original post)

Mon Sep 8, 2014, 10:39 AM

171. how did the law find out? n/t

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