General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe video of Ray Rice punching his fianceé when they were in the elevator:
http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_ekaflcqq/A lot of people kept saying they'd wait until they saw the video to say anything. I guess they thought she did something to deserve being knocked out. I'm sure they will defend him even after seeing this video.
He should have gotten suspended for a year.
tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)unbelievable -- NFL should think long and hard about what their 2 game suspension says about how they feel about women as a corporation and what they find mildly acceptable behavior from players
violence should not be accepted by the NFL nor the public
chervilant
(8,267 posts)This man has clearly demonstrated that he will consider physical violence a potential response any time she does/doesn't do what HE wants.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)has a chance to memorize his convict number, and by the second week with his replacement in the line-up they'll barely remember him. The NFL's revenue will not be effected a bit if he's given the boot.
and that justifies him punching her out, and then dragging her unconscious body unceremoniously out of the elevator?
There is absolutely no justification for what he did.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Now if he smoked weed, that would deserve at least a year's suspension.
Is this necessary?
He should be suspended for a minimum of 8 games w/o pay.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hope Baltimore goes 0-16.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)Seems pretty tame as justice goes.
Dorian Gray
(13,493 posts)The NFL sucks, but with video evidence like that, he should have been in jail.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Huge
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)and a wife can't be compelled to testify against a spouse in NJ...
Without the wife's testimony, the prosecutors case was pretty thin....
I am interested in knowing why THAT part of the video was never made public until now...All I saw was the "dragging" part...
I'm also REALLY interested in knowing if Roger Goodell had seen this before handing down his flimsy 2-game punishment...(although the Ravens can still suspend Rice, iirc)
Josh Gordon has to be the most pissed off person in the world right now...
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)Are we sure about that "wife can't testify" thing because they weren't married at the time and there is video evidence.
Isn't this at least malicious enough for a C3 Misdemeanor for Disturbing the Peace?
Couldn't the casino press charges for precipitating a violent act on their premises?
GAC
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)should provide plenty of evidence to any judge or jury.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)Not a lawyer, but sure seems pretty clear to me. You too, apparently.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)is even more damning than the enraged punch itself.
For several minutes, he shows absolutely no remorse or concern -- other than how to get her unconscious body out of the elevator.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...outweighing the "can't be compelled to testify" thing is that as the assaulted party she can just refuse to press charges. Which, since she married him, I'm assuming she unfortunately did.
unblock
(52,227 posts)obviously a murder victim can't "press charges"!
it's just that the state's case is usually much more difficult if the victim doesn't want to cooperate.
in this case, though, the video rather suggests that the state might actually have a reasonable case even without the victim cooperating.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Even with the video, it's damn awkward trying to make your case when the victim is arguing for the other side. She gets up there and starts some nonsense story about oh it's not what it looks like, blah blah blah and what are you going to do? Attack her on the stand as part of convincing the jury how you're trying to protect her and look out for the best interests of her as a victim?
unblock
(52,227 posts)but yes, i suppose they do have to allow for the possibility that the victim (especially of ongoing abuse) might not be merely on the sidelines but actively helping the defense, even at the risk of a perjury charge.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)unblock
(52,227 posts)not sure it makes them more likely to commit perjury.
most would rather prefer not to be on the stand at all, to not allow themselves to be subject to cross-examination.
most defendants would probably prefer not to have their victims on the stand, even if they believe they have them under their thumb.
certainly most lawyers would recommend against it!
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)It doesn't matter what she might say. That video speaks for itself.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)Particularly to a jury. Now they might just completely ignore the testimony of the victim... but they probably wouldn't. Considering she's the victim.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)whether or not she testifies against him -- or even if she testified for him.
It's the prosecution's job to represent the state, not the victim. And it's in the interest of the state to prosecute a crime like this.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...she gets up there and says "oh no, really what happened is we were playing around and I slipped and hit my head on that railing. the video totally makes it look worse than it was!"
Or, you know, basically anything she wants. Because nobody is going to seriously challenge any version of events she feels like giving as long as it's even remotely plausible. Because *she's the victim*.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Don't forget -- there were all the other witnesses who saw her immediately after the attack. It's not just the video -- it's their testimony, too.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)And how exactly are you going to ask any of them to contradict her testimony as to how the knocking out occurred when none of them were in the elevator when it happened? You can't ask them to testify to things they didn't see you know.
Try to think this through like a prosecutor.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Do you think she already had a happy, made-up story to tell them? When she was too weak to sit up and they could just look at her face and see what happened?
And didn't you see the way she pulled away from him and tried to get back in the elevator? And the way he wasn't comforting her, the way any man would if his wife had just had an accident?
Their body language in front of those witnesses says it all, even if we don't know exactly what words came out of her mouth.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)"when she was still groggy"
And the defense rips apart anything she was claimed to have said. She was still groggy. She didn't know what she was saying. And now she's NOT groggy and oh look, she's telling you exactly what "really" happened.
There is no need for a ready-to-go instant made up story.
And if you have to resort to appeals to body language and behavior in the face of the *direct explicit testimony of the person in question telling you you're getting it wrong* you're doomed.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)without her cooperation. They don't usually do that, but they can. And in this case, they have plenty of evidence without her testimony.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)God.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Omaha Steve
(99,632 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)rpannier
(24,329 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)It is common for abuse victims to return to their abuser.
Many times they threaten her and others. Since they were punched like that, they believe it.
For you to make this about money is disgusting.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Abusers exercise control through violence and intimidation. The victim feels helpless and cut off from others and may be dependent on their abuser for everything from finances to social contact. From the outside, the relationship may appear to be "perfect" and everything may seem to be alright. Unless you've been on the receiving end of abuse, your hasty judgements on a person's ability to extract himself/herself from it means nothing. Unless you've experienced the feelings of worthlessness, fear, shame, and humiliation that come with it, you will not understand. When children are involved, it becomes even more risky to attempt to leave. There is no easy answer to the "why."
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)The victim feels helpless and cut off from others and may be dependent on their abuser for everything from finances to social contact
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)because it in some sick way proves your point--which was thoughtless to begin with.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)NOT the money and the prestige.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)and what's prestigious about being known as the woman that got her clock cleaned in an AC elevator? Would YOU wear that like a badge of honor? Are you even listening/reading to the BS you're posting? Do you think, after watching that video, he'll just do it that one time or hadn't done it before or again? And how do you know she gets any of his money? Do you DEFINITELY know he treats her well in regards to finances? You're making assumptions based on I don't know what.
Response to justiceischeap (Reply #86)
Name removed Message auto-removed
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)If the victim is solely dependent on the abuser, then that means not having the means to leave and start again. Starting over, especially, with the responsibility of the care of children, is not that easy. If you have been with your abuser for any length of time, then it is likely that you have no recent work experience, no independent income source of your own, nor do you necessarily have a place to go to or a good support system to help you in your time of need. Why is that so hard for you to grasp? This does happen frequently. Not every person has the ego strength or resources it takes to leave.
Look, I have no idea who you are but I speak from experience. It took me the better part of twenty years to extricate myself from an abusive relationship. I didn't stay for the money and I doubt anyone else stays for it. Abusive relationships are ever so much more complicated than you would like them to be. I am stopping my comment here because I believe that you are not able or willing to empathize with victims of abuse and I am finding myself tapping memories I'd sooner keep in the past.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)I am sorry you had to deal with such abuse in your life. I hope you life is a billion times happier now.
Financial abuse is a very real thing, though rarely spoken about, leaving the general public undereducated about the topic. It's many times more complicated than staying in for the money. As you noted, the victim is held at an economic disadvantage.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)even here, on DU. But you did a great job.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)He's the real victim.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)confidence after having mind games played on you isolating you and making you think you are worthless.
Off the top of my head, for starters.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)reason victims stay with their abuser is fear.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/my-friend-the-murder-statistic-domestic-violence-victims-might-seem-like-just-a-number--until-its-someone-you-know-9541853.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/07/domestic-violence-deaths-raise-questions-about-gaps/15260841/
http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/09/18/a-grim-tally-abusers-guns-and-the-women-they-kill/
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/porter/27060289-418/domestic-violence-ending-in-death-follows-pattern-familiar-to-many.html
http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_25008486/minnesota-domestic-abuse-death-toll-2013-37
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2014/06/28/3176983/the-faces-of-domestic-violence.html
Silly battered women and their silly fears.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)fear for their lives,on a daily basis.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)O.J. Simpson laughing his ass off.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Always at least one feigning ignorance to promote a POV....
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)Unless you've Unless you've experienced the feelings of worthlessness, fear, shame, and humiliation that come with it, you will not understand
so which is it, am i feigning ignorance or am actually ignorant because i havent experienced the feelings of worthlessness, fear, shame, and humiliation that come with it,
shireen
(8,333 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)To do that would mean someone has experienced domestic violence. Odd to think this way, but: the less people that can empathize, the better we're doing to help reduce domestic violence. SYMPATHY is definitely called for here, though.
shireen
(8,333 posts)I don't need to have experienced domestic violence to feel empathy for that lady. It's about putting yourself in that person's shoes, mentally
seeing it from their perspective. I think empathy is a good thing.
Did i misunderstand your words?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)I used the term empathy to clearly differentiate it from 'sympathy' by emphasizing the 'experienced' part of its definition. Of course one can mentally walk in someone's shoes. I devalued that part of it's definition to put a finer point on an argument, and that was not helpful here.
ann---
(1,933 posts)parents or other family members help her to get away from him and protect her? "Staying together for the kids" is NOT the answer in an abusive relationship. Not sure why those who love her didn't get involved and get this man put in jail where he belongs.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)What the hell kind of message do you think that sends to the world? That if your fiancee' is a NFL running back that makes millions that it's OK to forgive him when he beats you up?
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)He's the famous one. Nobody ever heard of her until somebody twice her size knocked her out. How in god's name is she being held to a higher standard when he's a criminal and she's literally done nothing wrong?
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)she's got two boobs instead of two balls, so that makes her automatically guilty by default. You know, she *had* to be asking for it.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)person who is beloved in their community. While everybody blames her for her initial abuse, any legal sanctions he faces AND any losses the football team has until at least the resolution of a trial.
That sounds like fun, sign me the fuck up.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)He beats her up, and then she turns around and marries him 4 weeks later! Would you be so kind to explain that to me?
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)She could marry him, have his children and build a statue of him on the front lawn around which she danced while singing songs in his praise and it still wouldn't matter. We know for a fact that he knocked her out cold and dragged her unconscious body around. He's an adult and he's responsible for his own behavior, and his behavior is criminal and dangerous.
Poor taste in partners does not cancel out criminal assault.
wellstone dem
(4,460 posts)Lefty Mom, I love you, I love you, I love you.
It's not about her. It's about him. Not why does she stay. Why doesn't he stop????
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)These perpetually obtuse DU'ers, always asking the same seemingly innocent questions, again and again, in spite of the ANSWERS to their so-called "questions" which are easily found within the thread--this obvious game they play continually gets passes from juries.
Its the kind of Pass that used to be given to racists who just couldn't fathom why black people objected to profiling, discrimination in real estate and rentals, &etc....why would a Black person WANT to live "with us", instead of "with their own people?" This question would always be stated n a similarly innocent tone of voice.
Can we here NOT see the parallel?
Jury Results
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Who cares if this guy has sympathy" He is always blaming women. Why is this kind of person allowed on this site?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 01:30 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a legitimate question.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: As per the alert, it's time to stop giving a pass to the people in our DU community who insist on maintaining a hostile attitude towards women and our experience. So many of this personality type here take the offence against any issue women struggle with. The only "issues" that seem to get their wholehearted support are the top-free movement. And women's right to work in the sex trade--posing, acting or soliciting.
I am tired of this attitude getting a pass.
-Blanche
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Posters not breaking any rules.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: confusion on all sides.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I have no problem hiding over the line sexist posts. However, IMHO this one doesn't rise to that level.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Read the damn post again, and then read the first reply to it; a question asked then properly answered. Simple, no?
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I agree with you one hundred percent.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)in these situations feel trapped -- they have been trained since childhood to expect men to behave this way. And they want to believe the man who says, "never again."
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)What we want is justice, but the worst in society seem intent on blaming victims rather than abuser. That is precisely what enables violence against women to perpetuate, which is why people do it.
It doesn't take but a 8th grade reading level to look into battered woman syndrome. These matters have been written about widely in the popular press. You have chosen to keep yourself uninformed on the subject, and worse yet use that ignorance to insult victims of abuse. In a civilized society abusers are held accountable, not their victims.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)"If you tell anybody what happened, I'll fucking kill you"?? (or something to that effect)
In that situation, he has all the power - physically, financially and also fame-wise. If she divorces him, presses charges, cooperates with authorities, etc, she could very well be worried for her life. How often are famous people - celebrities, athletes, politicians - let off with just a slap on the wrist?
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)if it were my baby and she wanted to abort and i didnt. i would fight to get my baby
Do you think the male involved in the pregnancy should have the legal right to force her to carry to term if she doesn't want to?
this is a discussion the 2 adults should have before doing something this adult act
A Jury voted 6-1 to hide this post on Mon Jul 7, 2014, 04:44 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #108)
Post removed
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Until then, you should STFU and you are contemptible if you try to "force" someone to carry an unwanted pregnancy.
Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #120)
Post removed
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)this over and over but it still carries the same weight. the child is mine too and i should have a say in that childs birth or lack thereof. how about we not hijack this thread
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)On Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:07 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
uterus or no it's still my baby too and i will not stfu about it. try reading it helps
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5505672
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Doubling down on TWO anti choice/forced birth posts that were hidden 6-1 - both post #110 and another post from earlier http://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5206465 (provided link due to typo in post #108).
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 12:30 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post 110 said "force was hyperbole like i can really force someone to give birth". And it was hidden. Why hide this one too? This seems like a stupid alert-fight.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I understand that the party with the uterus carries a more medical burden during pregnancy, and personally I would defer to the woman's position on this. But a person raising the argument that the father is also a stakeholder should not be shouted down. Disagree if you are so moved, but there is no need to be belligerent about it.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's been obvious for some time that this poster should take his opinions somewhere else.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I've seen enough. Misogyny, like racism, has no place on DU. Wish I could do more than hide this post.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't like this apparent effort to get repeated posts hidden on this guy. It stinks. He's expressing his views, it's not offensive, lay off.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
alp227
(32,024 posts)TBF
(32,060 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Who needs enemies.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)She might have been trained, by a brutal father, to think that this behavior is normal. That's the case for many women who stay with abusive partners; they learned it from childhood.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)pressured by the Ravens and the NFL to do that stupid sham press conference in which she took the blame for his hitting her and apologized for the incident. Maybe they also pressured her to marry him to protect the image of a bunch of men who only hit each other when they are covered in protective gear.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)fishwax
(29,149 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)but not by much.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)K&R for exposure
rpannier
(24,329 posts)His defenders are noticeably absent
But those that think he's an a@@hole and should be in jail have swarmed
I'd be curious to see how the following deal with this now
Goodell
Harbaugh Cuz he said some stupid stuff before the Ravens put him on no-talk
The Judge who agreed to the plea. If it's an elected position he's likwly done. If I were running against him that'd be my political advert
The Prosecutor who signed off on it.
If I were running against the D.A. I'd run that reminding the voters that no matter who the prosecutor was, Dimbulb had to sign off on the plea
This isn't over for Rice
No sane company will endorse him.
Accusations and he-said, she-said are one thing
Video... kinda hard to nuance it. Esp that video
marble falls
(57,081 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)the hands of the prosecutor may be tied. Depends on the state. But if a victim doesn't want to proceed with a case, that can be the end of it, legally speaking. Not saying it's right or good, just how the system works,
marble falls
(57,081 posts)To the crime committed by someone on the people through it happening to the victims.Its only right. We don't want directly interested party's meting out the peoples' justice.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)she told authorities she would not testify against him the DA/prosecutor may have decided not to proceed with the case. Every state has their own procedures. The video, IMO, is irrefutable evidence to support a charge of aggravated assault.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Legally, the prosecutor doesn't represent the victim. S/he represents the state and is charged with upholding the law, regardless of the victim's preferences. The video would give the enough evidence to prosecute without the victim's testimony.
LiberalLoner
(9,761 posts)Heather MC
(8,084 posts)Women stop hitting men.
Before they got on the elvator she hit him. She may do this all the time which explains why the courts didn't give him jail time. She also came at him in the elelavator.
Now in the case of the Jay Zee Video everyone commented on the restraint he had for not hitting Solange, but no one seemed to be shaming her for attacking him.
I am not saying his behavior is correct, Just saying she might not have been laid out on the floor if she wasn't getting physical with him to begin with.
Don't pick fights with people that can hurt you.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)Her slapping at him merits his response? Sick.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)but I am not at all surprised by your view.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)pointing out what the responses would be like here-
In fact, I seem to remember the reverse case happening in the past but am too lazy to search for it LOL
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Creative, if unimaginative prophecy of yours...
treestar
(82,383 posts)leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)mercuryblues
(14,531 posts)fecking serious? A federal agent took down a man who sexually assaulted her and you are using that to justify this comment from above:
"If a guy smacked a woman and she laid him out people here would be cheering her"
treestar
(82,383 posts)I am saying that in fact that has been said on DU, which the poster upthread doubted.
mercuryblues
(14,531 posts)is a fair assessment.
The poster said: If a guy smacked a woman and she laid him out people here would be cheering her
Implying that if the video showed Raylena Rice doing that to Joe Palmer, people on DU would cheer.
You agreed and posted the link to a story where a federal agent took down a man who sexually assaulted her as proof that the poster was correct. As if the 2 scenarios are equal.
Big fucking difference between the 2 stories.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Heather MC
(8,084 posts)Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)You are going to blame the person who got knocked out?
You need to read about domestic abuse and talk to some survivors before you post about this again.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)Are_grits_groceries
(17,111 posts)Supporting their abuser and rallying to their side is common behavior in these cases. It is a complex dynamic. In addition, the abuser may have threatened the victim or those close to her.
She may be in very real danger now and going forward. Your blithe dismissal of her problem is naive and dangerous.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)I don't make legislation regarding spousal Abuse.
Talking about their situation on DU hardly endangers either of them.
And the woman slapped on a beautiful dress, got her hair done and said "I do" the day after he was indicted for hitting her.
She may very well be in danger, but not from me.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)pulsefeedz.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/applaud-yourselves-for-hurting-janay-and-ray-rice-more-than-youve-helped/
The prosecutor in Rices case accepted him into an intervention program which would require him to seek counseling and clear him of his charges in six months. And to top it all off according to SIs Peter King, Janay Rice pleaded with the commissioner in a moving and apparently convincing case that this was a one-time event.
If Rices prosecutor and his wife were satisfied that he understood how detrimental his actions were, isnt that all that matters?
MH1
(17,600 posts)Rather than hit back, he could have walked away.
Others have posted that he spit on her first. Whatever. Obviously it was an argument that escalated to physical attacks. But in this case the stronger person (MUCH stronger) has an easy choice to walk away, and that is what he should have done.
There is NO excuse for someone of his size and strength punching a much weaker opponent. Unless he is knocking a gun out of their hand.
951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)Heather MC
(8,084 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Or you may just get beaten senseless in an elevator.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Is that really what you're saying?
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)I am saying this idea that it is ok for her to hit him is Just as wrong as him hitting her.
And she is not a toddler she is a grown woman and she should have learn to keep her hands to herself when she was a toddler.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)It is disturbing that you are blaming the victim. Very disturbing.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)And here's the lovely victim the day after Ray got indicted for assaulting her
She is crying maybe he is forcing her into this
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)The world's bullies thank you.
Heather MC
(8,084 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)"Don't drink alcohol when you're out with a bunch of guys"?!? Really?!? That's what it sounds like you're saying!
I'm appalled by your post, and hope that you will take the time and make the effort to learn more about relationship violence.
Also,
"So while this video may expose the brutality of the assault that landed Rice with a mere two-game suspension, it also exposes the brutality of a culture that does not see women as human."
and
"...our cultures disregard for womens humanity the fact that women cant have a reasonable expectation of safety and privacy, online or off remains the same as it ever was."
(These are quotes from a Salon article by Katie McDonough.)
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)At roughly 8 seconds he spits on her
At roughly 11 seconds she back hands him with a motion that seems to barely touch him
At roughly 25 seconds he hits her the first time, her hand goes up in a defensive motion
At 27 seconds she moves toward him
At 28 seconds he punches her so hard it looks like she hits the rail and that is what probably knocked her out (and could have killed her)
At 58 seconds, after he drags her out of the elevator and dumps her on the ground, he then "toes" her to wake her up?
At around 1:26 she starts coming around, which means she was out cold for almost a minute
So, who started this altercation? What we don't see is what happens before they get to the elevator but what we do see outside and in the elevator in no way was started by her.
How about men, don't spit on women? How about men, don't smack women in elevators and then follow that up with a knock-out blow?
Logical
(22,457 posts)LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Despicable. He should be in jail and she needs serious counseling.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)camera.He doesn't react as if he's shocked that he knocked her out.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Both of them just stand around after he drags her off the elevator, not checking her or anything.
Which leads me to believe that it had been witnessed before too...
Domestic violence is just so easily glossed over in our culture. Its pretty sick.
DURHAM D
(32,609 posts)around and watched. Guess they don't know how to call 911.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)but they don't have to let him come back after that, and it can be conditioned on him doing certain things (anger management therapy, charity work, etc...). The penalty will be for a minimum of a year and for as long as the NFL wants to keep him out. In the history of the NFL, only 3 players have ever been banned for life, and none since 1989.
Aaron Hernandez murdered several people and only got suspended 4 games. In all fairness, they haven't revisited it since he's not able to play, and the trial hasn't finished.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Great role model for our young people right there.
strawberries
(498 posts)God his family must be devasted and shocked or maybe not.
There is no defending this man
Did I read that she married him?
kcr
(15,317 posts)It's got the usual nonsense.
Response to kcr (Reply #37)
Name removed Message auto-removed
trumad
(41,692 posts)and spouting off that she initiated it---you're full of shit.
He clearly spit at her as she walked by at the beginning of the video.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,327 posts)She clearly wanted to be left alone. He initiated and provoked.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)I'd like to see police departments start to use similar policy as the team policies. Huge fines and long suspensions (without pay) for police brutality.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)Protected.Class.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)You have the video evidence, so the prosecutors wouldn't need her testimony. He should have been put in jail for first degree assault and battery.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)In Michigan,if the police determine that domestic violence has taken place,they don't need the victims testimony or compliance to arrest.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)I guess not.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)It's a wonderful law in my opinion,it takes the onus off of victims who usually are victimized again for complying with domestic violence charges.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)A progressive state like NJ would have it on the books, but then again, my knowledge of the law comes from watching "Law & Order".
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)For the abuser it is all about control/obedience. That law removes her participation as a focus for his rage. But that only works as far as the arrest. It is hard to prosecute a crime without the victim's testimony. Nice that a video is available to the prosecutor in this case though.
There is no more "dropping the charges" here. The prosecutor brings the charges. There were too many battered women who chose not to prosecute their offenders, so the state and counties took it out of their hands. As well they should. We all know about the so called "honeymoon phase", after an attacker abuses his partner. They then refuse to prosecute because she/he want to believe that this will be the last time. It very rarely is. These abusers are masters of manipulation; they care nothing for their victims, it's all about self-preservation and "getting caught". Scum, I have absolutely no patience or domestic batterers.
951-Riverside
(7,234 posts)FUCK NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This thug asshole should be in prison like anyone else and permanently FIRED from his job ...like everyone else.
I AM FUCKING SICK AND TIRED OF POLICE THUGS AND NFL THUGS GETTING A FREE PASS FOR BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)"thug asshole should be in prison like anyone else". You see, there is the problem. You think everyone goes to jail for this. Not the case. Everyone doing this doesn't lose their job. Everyone doing this doesn't go to prison. That is the problem. This isn't preferential treatment like some are making it out to be. This isn't the big bad man getting away with something because he has money. This is a daily occurrence in this country.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)First year football star Mixon, went into a sandwich shop on campus around 2:45 a.m., a young woman said something to him and pushed him back, he clocked her in the face, broke her jaw and damaged her eye socket. Got a misdemeanor charge, the people in town went after the "morals" of the young woman who he injured and wanted him reinstated on the team. He was suspended for one year but is still on campus attending classes.
There was video but it has not be released to the public...yet. They allowed the media to see it, and from what they have written he would be hard pressed to play anywhere else which is likely the reason he is staying at OU and doing his "year of suspension". Look for him in the NFL in a few years, they could care less about character! The District Attorney said he has had horrible murders that didn't get the attention or phone calls to his office this did.
I love football but this is nuts. Saying any woman who is as small as the woman Rice injured and the one Mixon injured (has been said she was less than 120 pounds), deserves a strong punch to the face by a man who is in prime physical condition and used to hitting linemen is just plain stupid!
A woman vs. a football player is worth less than dirt.
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)made a homosexual slur towards one of her companions. That is why she initially slapped him.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)After hearing about Ray Rice being released, you have to hope the same thing will happen to Mixon when that tape is released to the public, including the women who back OU.
maxrandb
(15,330 posts)Some of the responses on this thread make me think that if he had a gun and had shot her, folks would say he could claim "Stand Your Ground"!
Sickening! Anyone who can see this video, and justify him knocking her out, needs to seriously question their humanity. And I would say the same thing if a 260LB solid miscle woman had sucker punched a 100 pound man.
It seems that in a few short years we've gone from "walk away if you can" to "fuck-it, waste 'em if you can"
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)What will she do when they have kids? Because you know the next time Rice will be careful not to do it in public. They'll share the same home as a married couple, and he'll be free to abuse her without outside scrutiny.
Any children they have will witness their dad spitting and beating on their mother. So sad.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Remind me again how DU doesn't have a misogyny problem?
Clockwork with these pigs.
Mr Dixon
(1,185 posts)The owners of the NFL are a bunch of old billionaires, why would anyone be surprised that they could care less about this issue? When these dudes were in there impressionable years smacking a woman wasnt a show stopper so in their eyes this is not a big deal, just buy me a new stadium and shut-up poor people this means you.
Deadbeat Republicans
(111 posts)I apologize for starting a thread at latest breaking news forum on the same story. Newbie mistakes, I meant no disruption.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)to:
1. Once and for all shut the naysayers up about how the girl slipped and fell or was responsible for the incident...
2. Expose the woven quilt of lies sold to football fans by the NFL, the Ravens, and the mainstream sports media...
Without that video, Rice is at practice today getting ready for his Week 3 start...
cwydro
(51,308 posts)means another asshole faces no consequences,
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)rocktivity
(44,576 posts)Last edited Wed May 27, 2015, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)
This is NOT how you handle people you have knocked out accidentally -- especially if you're planning to marry them.
Now that the second video is out, the NFL is just trying to save face, but they look worse than ever in not giving Rice at least as much punishment as they did to that player who smoked pot!
rocktivity
Blue Owl
(50,373 posts)This is how "loved" ones are treated?
malaise
(268,998 posts)That remains my question.
Fire him.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)and abuse is the norm for her. Maybe he wasn't always abusive and she thinks he'll change. Maybe she's convinced herself that their child is better off in a two parent family at great cost to herself.Maybe he's convinced her that she's a loser and no one else "loves" her and she believes that. Does it really fucking matter?
https://twitter.com/hashtag/whyistayed?f=realtime&src=hash
Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)Now the NFL commissioner and the management of the Ravens needs the heave ho.
phil89
(1,043 posts)Sports worship trumps everything I guess?
Ishoutandscream2
(6,662 posts)Almost made me physically ill.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)means brain damaged, violent and horrible role models for children, especially their own.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)or they wouldn't be where they are.
Steve Young, jumps to mind because I'm a Niner fan. Just today he's pressuring his former team to suspend Ray McDonald in light of his domestic violence charges. Previously he was one of the most well-known Mormons speaking out against Prop 8. If he's not a smart guy after football (and he quit because of concussions) then I'm real curious how he got himself a law degree.
I'm sure people more familiar with other franchises could point to many other people who are every bit as admirable and upstanding. You're painting with a really broad brush and it's ignorant.
ann---
(1,933 posts)before the video inside the elevator was release, the FACTS as the NFL knew them were reported accurately about his punching her in the face and knocking her unconscious. The FACT that they didn't fire him until the video went PUBLIC says a lot about how the NFL protects abusers. The man should be in jail.