I am a Male.

[Hobo]

My ex physically abused me during our marriage. Does that make me a fool? Am I less of a man because of it?

When you love someone, someone who for the large majority of the time was a loving person, do you just overlook these outbursts?

I was the bread winner. She worked in the beginning to help make ends meet but after a few years my income rose to the point were she didn't need to work but she continued to until our divorce.

Here is an example of what would set her off. I traveled a lot for work and sometimes I would need to entertain a clients with a dinner and/or drinks, she was aware of these as she accompanied me to a few after work dinners when clients visited our town. I had a company credit card that was used for this purpose and I had the bill for this sent to home, in part so she could see where the money was going each month. I would be reembursed by the company but it sometime took a few days. One month after she open the bill she looked up and just smacked in the mouth. She says she was mad that I spent $900.00 on a dinner and that I had to be cheating on her. In fact it was a dinner in Chicago for a client who invited about 10 members of his team partly because he knew I would be picking up the check.

I was brought up in the 60s. I was taught and I learned never to hit a woman. I can honestly say I have never even clenched my fist in anger toward a female. Even while I was being smacked in the mouth. Sure I would defend myself by raising my arms to ward off the hits. I never retaliated, I know I could have caused a lot of damage, but something in my mind just said no.

Eventually, I grew tired of the outbursts and finally got out.

I know my actions never required these outbursts. I tried then to figure out what the trigger was, but it was always different. After a while I just gave up.

I am not condoning any ones actions, all I am saying is it is not just men who step over line. (I know that someone here will comment on that sentence)




Hobo

[Warpy]

1. I'm sorry that happened to you and I'm glad you got out

While women do a lot less physical damage, at least in the beginning, they're well known to escalate by using weapons. The use of violence and isolation to control a significant other is just the same.

No one should ever be afraid to go home because they share it with a violent partner.

We have to do better at this.

[JimDandy]

2. Hugs to you Hobo.

So sorry you suffered through such abuse. Glad you had the strength to get out!

[villager]

3. My Ex abused me too, actually. Bit me once or twice, kicked me, and was routinely verbally abusive

Including in front of our kids.

The boys are almost grown now, and I'll be able to really reduce my contact with her then, but I've had to stay in touch, necessarily, as they've grown up.

It's a shitty situation to be in. I wonder if calling the cops and making her face up to anger management would have helped anything? Traumatized our then-young sons more? Sent her on a different trajectory than the one where she wound up cheating, blasting apart what was left of our marriage?

I know that she had been a victim of sexual predation when younger, and much of her rage (and need to "control" through that rage) came from that.

Still. It's a terrible thing to be in.

[ann---]

5. People who

assault and batter others are committing a CRIME and should pay for it. How else will it stop?

[Triana]

7. This is why it's so important that the right questions are asked of the abuser

There's no other way to get at the real causes of abusive personalities: they were abused themselves, PTSD - whatever. It's all stuff that as society we need to deal with. Otherwise, it comes out in very destructive and unhealthy ways. The truth is that no matter who an abusive person is with, they're going to be abusive. The question is why? Not why does anyone stay with them or marry them, but why are they abusive?

[villager]

8. And then she left me for a verbally abusive alcoholic, who she *returned* to after hospitalization

As she told it, her meltdown was caused by his unceasing put-downs. This is who she left her marriage for.

She wound up on meds (for awhile) and out of the hospital after several weeks (I'd -- ironically? -- moved back in to my former house in the interim, to take care of our sons, get them off to their schools, etc.)

A couple months back out of the hospital, she took up with the guy again. Made "sobering him up" her big project, had an intervention, etc.

Guess he quit the sauce, at least for awhile.

He's out of state now, back to selling cars. She leaves to visit him occasionally.

Go figure.

[Eleanors38]

38. I hope this works out well for you and your family.

An implied question in all this: Would a woman who abuses and is abused ever find subsequent happiness with a new and non-abusive mate? Would she respect him?

[villager]

61. That is the sad, unspoken question, E38

I don't know. She doesn't appear to have anyone in particular right now (then again, neither do I, and as I contemplate the cycles of fall, it may be time for me to move on, at last, as well...)

I do hope, somehow, she manages to find the happiness that eluded her with the guy -- me -- that she swore she'd love forever.

And hey: Always good having a non-gun yak with you, so that each of us isn't merely "that ridiculous poster who absolutely doesn't get it!"

[Eleanors38]

69. Thing about heartbreak I've noted: The routine of

Physical life, work, your very body is ready to move on before your mind is. But we give our physicality such short shrift. We give the psyche too much credit. I actually learned to like my past loves later, and from afar.

Yeah, I swim a little upstream around here. I try to agree with my adversaries when I can, or laugh at their jokes!

Take care. Fall is the best time in Texas.

[villager]

93. I've been to Austin in the spring, and several times in summer (!)

...where it was quite sticky...

Have yet to make the fall pilgrimage, though my pals there do assure me that's the time to see it...

[Eleanors38]

94. In town, it's a relief. Outside, it's creation.

[tblue37]

43. If she abused you, she might have also abused your sons.

Are you sure she didn't (doesn't)?

[villager]

62. She had a very tough time with eldest son when he was in jr. high

Of course, she'd moved her fatuous alcoholic boyfriend into the house then, too.

She goaded him, the way she'd always goad, or come after, me. Being 12 and 13 then, Eldest had few resources to handle it, and sometimes returned fire inappropriately (and he was already bigger than her). There was a period when she'd angrily proclaim he'd have to live with me, now.

Which usually lasted two weeks or so, until amends were made.

In any case, though she wasn't able to shed fatuous b.f. completely after her hospitalization, nonetheless, some things did change for her. (For one thing, she was on meds for awhile, which stabilized her).

Her relationship with Eldest Son is different now, thankfully. As for Youngest Son, he'd been more of a darling to her, I suppose. In any case, she seems to be using the "script" she had with me -- and his big brother -- less these days.

Thank you for asking, though.

Strange. I've mentioned some of these things briefly over the years at DU, often in the "divorce" forum (where I haven't visited for awhile). But not to the extent in this thread.

And while I've "talked" about these things in therapy and other settings, it also feels good to do so here.

[catbyte]

65. Sounds like hormones could be involved too if she is improving as she ages.

I used to have horrible, organically mood swings 2 weeks a month that disappeared completely after my hysterectomy. I always controlled it although it was hard to do. I loved my husband too much and he was too terrific to lash out at him. Not everyone can control it though.

[villager]

66. That has occurred to me, too. There was -- is -- a biochemical component, as well

Her moods definitely swung, and she clung to whatever prism that mood dictated, in terms of viewing events, etc.

I doubt she'll ever say anything along these lines to me, though.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Thank you for sharing your story.

One problem many have with domestic violence is they fail to see it comes in all forms. I have seen some relationships which were so emotionally abusive I would have almost rather seen them beat each other! Emotional and mental abuse are just as bad, and sometimes those relationships are harder to leave because "there are no marks" at least none on the outside.

What really makes me sad is the level of domestic violence in the GLBT community and how little my community is wiling to even discus it.

I hope you are doing well!

[Aerows]

52. Sadly, BtA, you are correct

"What really makes me sad is the level of domestic violence in the GLBT community and how little my community is wiling to even discuss it."

I can't even get into the things I've seen amongst my lesbian peers. It's shameful, and we don't even talk about it.

[Triana]

6. It's abuse no matter who does it: male or female, same-sex partner or whatever.

I'm happy you got away from her. She sounds like a typical abusive control freak. I try not to always refer to an abuser as "he" when I write about this. Because that's not always the case. Not at all.

[beam me up scottie]

9. No judgment here.

I'm just glad you broke free and are willing to tell your story. You may be helping someone just by putting it out there.

[roguevalley]

10. very underreported, this happening to men. My nephew is undergoing this

right now. Hugs to you, honey.

[Blue_In_AK]

11. I know of those situations.

My husband and I both were previously in abusive relationships. Something about each of us just totally pissed our exes off. Together we never even raise our voices at each other even though we're together almost 24-7 since we're retired. My ex used to say I would piss off the Pope. Go figure.

Human relationships are complex things.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

13. "Something about each of us just totally pissed our exes off"

Nah....people like that who do that to those they love are always pissed off.

[Blue_In_AK]

15. Well, you are exactly right.

My ex was very volatile. But in between he could really pull at my heartstrings. I knew his history so even while I knew he was being a jerk sometimes, I understood why. So I never blamed myself or felt responsible for his reaction; I just felt kind of sorry for him. I know he wanted to control his impulses but he just wasn't wired to do so at that point in his life. I think he's better now -- I hope he is -- but we never have any contact these days. We parted friends.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

14. "you could just walk away"

You didn't read a goddamn thing that was written, did you?

[redruddyred]

16. yeah I did.

you could just physically walk away. there wasn't a bigger and stronger person preventing your from doing so. you could choose to not get hit anymore.

it's not the same for women.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. So it's not possible for a woman to hit a man with an object as his back is turned....

....as he walks away? Or to continue striking him as he walks away in a position not able to defend himself?

The statements you are making are just the same old tropes, and it's why men stay silent. You are basically assuming it should always be possible for a man to withstand a physical assault from "the weaker sex", and if they can't....well, how embarrassing is that?

[redruddyred]

19. that's objectively extremely difficult

unless you've been explicitly trained to kill people, which few women are.

women are statistically significantly physically weaker than men. some abusive people will use this to their advantage.

it's not about gender, it's about bullying.

I've had women attack me too, but I'm not threatened by it. it's deeply annoying, but it's not a serious problem in the sense that if the guy gets out of control and won't stop I might have to pick up a weapon and then spend the rest of my life in jail for it. the OP's ex was not able to corner him and deliver "punishment". he could simply walk away. when the person is bigger than you then it's an entirely different power dynamic.

[beam me up scottie]

21. What does the ability to "just physically walk away" have to do with it?

If a woman is bigger and stronger than her abuser and is able to walk away after being struck does that mean it's not really domestic violence?

[joeglow3]

37. *crickets

[beam me up scottie]

55. At least that one was hidden.

I mean what the hell? Every time I log in I find more people blaming victims and blabbering on about how easy it is to leave the abuser.

It's like Whack-a-Mole in GD this week.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

26. Ironic I would read this right now

As I'm watching a DVR episode of "Dateline" about a woman (7 months pregnant) that pushed her husband out of a window, 25 floors up. He was packed and waiting for his father to come pick him up, turned his back to her, and she pushed him out the window.

No, men can't always leave.

[mercuryblues]

31. The most

dangerous time for a victim of DV is when they try to leave the abuser. Which is part of the reason that victims do stay in that situation for so long.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

57. "Replying" to the hidden post

I'm not saying it happens all the time or even all that often. I just found it ironic that I would be reading a post from someone that says men can always walk away, while watching something that proves the statement incorrect.

[beam me up scottie]

59. I very seldom alert

but in this case I couldn't let it go.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Sep 9, 2014, 01:08 PM, and voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Insensitive.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: let us not blame the victem, male or female and there is no reason to trivialize another persons pain.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If you wouldn't say it to a woman in the circumstance, if it would be insensitive in that case, its insensitive in this case.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Incoherent but not hide worthy.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.

The fact that it was a 4-3 decision well...

[one_voice]

54. I know you're unable to respond to this but I need to address what you've...

said.

Many men are abused by other men (same sex relationships) it's not always a woman. Also in many instances there are children involved. They don't want to leave a child/ren with an abusive person.

You're attitude:

this is why discussion of domestic violence towards men is considered in poor taste.

is exactly why it's under reported and not taken seriously.

I know a man whose wife would get rip roaring drunk and beat the shit out of him. Using whatever she could get her hands on. He would take it until the cops showed up--being very careful not to hurt her while trying to restrain her from busting his head open--AGAIN. There were children in the home--they were his step children he stayed to protect them.

Eventually she got help and they got divorced.

Your attitude in this is horribly disgusting. Talking about/bringing up awareness about abuse should NEVER be considered in bad taste. What you said, however, very bad taste.

edited cuz I apparently don't know the difference between you're and your.

[closeupready]

58. Reminds me of Rep. Alan Grayson - remember that video posted here

and we had all kinds of people saying that he was somehow to blame for the abuse which the woman in the video was directing towards him? That really opened my eyes here to the manner in which many here diminish or even dismiss F-on-M violence. (He was cleared later.)

[B Calm]

22. My dad tried to walk away, so mom picked up a butcher knife and chased after him.

I was 7 years old, now I'm 63 and it still haunts me!

[gollygee]

30. The highest potential for violence is there regardless of the size of one compared to the other

A gun equalizes everything. A lot of victims of domestic violence end up being killed, and if a gun is the weapon of choice, it doesn't matter what size disparity there is between the two.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. Discussing men who are DV victims isn't in poor taste.

Bringing it up as a way of derailing a discussion on the far more common domestic violence experiences of women IS.

No one who knows anything at all about DV believes that men who are abused by women always have the option to just walk away. That's a really dangerous oversimplification.

[hrmjustin]

47. "this is why discussion of domestic violence towards men is considered in poor taste."

Did you really mean this?

[Skidmore]

18. Hobo, my heart goes out to you.

Abuse is a terrible thing to experience, regardless of who doles it out. I'm so glad you were able to get out.

[moriah]

20. You're correct. Women can be abusive, too.

And no, you're not less of a person because you fell in love with someone who was abusive. I'm glad you were able to get out.

[mercuryblues]

29. I will

be more than happy to show you how

[Shankapotomus]

24. Less of a man?

No. It makes you more of a human and I think that's what feminism is going for.

[Scuba]

28. Must be Alan West.

[gollygee]

32. I agree that DU turns to "what about the men" way too often

in threads about violence against women, but I appreciate that this is its own thread. I don't think a thread about men who are victims of domestic violence, especially when the person who started the thread is an actual victim and isn't talking about a theoretically potential, is the same as responding to a thread about women victims of domestic violence with, "But men are sometimes victims too!"

[NaturalHigh]

34. What is your problem on this thread?

If this offends you for some reason, trash the thread and move on.

[Marr]

39. It's pretty repulsive to use a sock to attack a post like this, just FYI.

You style is very recognizable.

[tkmorris]

41. The owner of this sock IS on a timeout, are they not?

[Marr]

53. I believe so, yep. /nt

[tavalon]

46. Um, what the hell is wrong with you?

You seem, well, unhinged. Did you take a left turn when you meant to take a right?

[jimlup]

27. Violence is wrong regardless of the sex of the initiator

Though as a male we have a special responsibility not to respond. This is something I learned as a kid growing up. Because we are physically larger and stronger it is essential that we not respond to most outbursts from those smaller and weaker than we are.

This is how "being a gentleman" was defined for me.

[closeupready]

50. I completely disagree with you.

[Smarmie Doofus]

73. But are we ALL "physically larger and stronger"?

I guess it depends on where you live.

A lot of adult males around here are 5-1, 5-2, 5-3. There's a large immigrant population in my region.

My own adult son is 5-4.

On *average* we're "physically larger and stronger" but that's just an *average*. Plenty of men are NOT "physically larger and stronger."

[Smarmie Doofus]

33. All kinds of psychological fault lines criss-crossing this issue.

I'm gay... so I don't really get the M-F part of it on a personal level in the same sense that straight Ms and Fs do.

However...... I've always found the mixed messages the culture sends re. F on M domestic violence kind of perplexing and at the same time interesting.

We KNOW it wrong for Ms to physically abuse Fs. The culture makes this abundantly clear. We get no such reassurance in the reverse circumstance.

In fact.... the idea is variously titilating and/or amusing. But it is EVERYWHERE.

Sit coms are a handy quick-fix look into the American cultural psyche. F's dishing out slaps/punches/kicks/pinches to their male partners is the THE cliche sight-gag of sitcom-dom.

Two nites ago Ray Romano ( it was a rerun, I presume) was literally falling all over the furniture trying to escape the wrath of the Mrs. Near as I could tell, he did nothing to
"deserve" or "provoke" such treatment.

Yet the audience howls w. glee. OK, it's canned laughter and a digital audience but someone... at the very least the writers.... must find it amusing/titilatting/profitable.

I don't get it.

[beam me up scottie]

56. I wish I could rec this post.

[Smarmie Doofus]

75. Thanks.

Maybe I'll send it to the journal.

[beam me up scottie]

76. You should.

It caused at least two of us to pause long enough to think about it and respond.

[lumberjack_jeff]

64. +100 n/t

[NaturalHigh]

35. Sorry you had to go through that Hobo.

[Whiskeytide]

36. I think sometimes a woman hitting a man can signal...

... an insidious psychological defect in the woman. Such things are always very fact specific, but if someone hits someone they KNOW is not going to hit them back, its the same as hitting someone who is handcuffed or disabled. Most bullies are men, but not always.

[dickthegrouch]

40. I watched my father being abused his whole life

There's nothing I hated more than seeing his "What can I do?" shrug after mother had cut him to the quick yet again.

BUT, try finding help as a potential abuser and there is none. I found myself getting extremely angry with a partner and wanted to see if there were other ways to cope. I could find nothing other than a family therapist who had to coach me in how I could talk to him without triggering mandatory notification statutes. It was somewhat effective, but I'm still being abused.

His (poor) Finances and emotional blackmail (his suicide threats) are my justifications for staying.

[cvoogt]

42. Good for you

for working through it with dignity. I have been through it too (also male). It's not your job to fix her, and you have a right to happiness and a healthy relationship.

[tavalon]

44. That is awful

I'm so sorry that happened to you and no, you aren't less of a man, you are more of a man for being willing to admit this. When a woman gets beaten in a relationship, there is, everywhere but on Faux "News", sympathy and it's not something to be laughed at. Unfortunately, people do tend to laugh when it's the opposite and that's a huge wrong and I really don't know why people do it.

My father and stepmother beat the crap out of each other all the time. My father would joke about his black eyes but we children were just trying, often failing, to stay the fuck out of the endless horror that was them. We didn't see it as funny, just another scary chapter in an awful childhood. I've called it Vietnam and it was a war zone for all of us.

I guess that's why I don't doubt that it happens to men. I saw it. I saw it happen to the woman in that relationship too. And of course, I experienced the violence when it was turned on me and it often was.

I've always had a zero tolerance policy for physical abuse in my relationships. Unfortunately, it wasn't until recently that I realized that I allowed mental abuse and even dealt it. That was a shock and once I saw it, I couldn't unsee it. I think that is part of why I'm very invested in being single now. It seems I haven't figured out how to find an emotionally healthy guy to be emotionally healthy with. But I know how to be kind to myself so I'm going with what works for now.

Your ex did, in fact, step over the line and I am glad you got out.

[beam me up scottie]

60. It takes courage to post what you did.

Your story and how you've grown into a better person is inspiring.

Let's hope the posters who need to get a clue read it.

[closeupready]

49. You should have defended yourself, but I'm glad you

were able to resolve this situation without further violence.

Also, you should have documented these acts of aggression.

I would never provoke a violent altercation, but if an adult did so, I would defend myself physically if necessary regardless of whether the instigator was male or female.

[TheVisitor]

51. Of course it was wrong for her to hit you-

Luckily she wasn't powerful enough to leave any broken bones on you or put you in a hospital bed...
Unfortunately, most abused women aren't exactly athletes and I think the abusers choose them for this very reason, because they seem 'weaker'...
This woman you were with probably saw that you were a good man who wouldn't hit her, so she took advantage of that and hit you... She's not a good person, but I do say the two types of abuse are rarely comparable...

I would say that typically a woman is much more capable of causing financial abuse, emotional abuse, and reputation destruction as a form of control/abuse. Not in all cases, but these are typically the choices of abusive women, because they physically typically wont overpower a man.

If you really love someone it is hard to see abuse, especially when it is slowly ingrained into you over time. You were lucky to see it and get out when you did. What if her abuse only escalated to the point of her causing you physical harm? Poisoning you, or finding a way to 'end' you and take what was left of your livelihood here on Earth?

The male abusers in relationships are more often emotionally, psychologically, and/or physically abusive... because men do have the physical strength aspect over women [typically, not always], they have a more ruthless and less calculated method of causing serious harm and even death.

From an abusive man's perspective... I'd say that a man could lose his temper in some abusive rage and kill a woman physically much more easily than a woman could kill a man in a fit on rage with her bare hands - simply because the woman would have to sit back and calculate a method of doing it, rather than just throwing a punch (for example) and rendering a man unconscious. or possibly killing him.

I don't think you're any less of a man.

I have to side with statistics and say that women are subjected to physical, more dangerous violence, in relationships more often than men. More women are physically injured from domestic violence per year than any other type of injury.

http://www.abetterwaydomesticviolence.org/rooms.html

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. Conversations about collective blame or "degrees of violence" miss the point.

The point is to interrupt the cycle of violence.

As a reaction to the same kind of provocation, you chose right and Ray Rice chose wrong.

If we want to prevent the violence that results in injury to women, it is best to intervene in that escalating cycle as early as possible, not to wait until she experiences injury.

It is probably pointless to try to understand what actions or words trigger violence in your partner. Except for this: hitting someone isn't "a trigger", it's the initiation of combat. No one is obliged to ignore it, but leaving is a better reaction than retaliation.

I've read several OPs describe Mrs Rice as "a strong woman". The apparent evidence for this view is video of her hitting him first.

[RebelOne]

67. I abused my ex-husband once and never regretted it.

When we were married, he liked to play pool after work. But one night he did not come home until 3 a.m. I had a newborn baby and had no milk for him and no way to get to the store. We only had one car which he was driving. I was livid that he was not home after work. When I saw his car pull into the drive at 3 a.m., I was furious. I am only 5 foot 3 and about 125 pounds. He was 6 foot 3 and 200 pounds. Well, I grabbed a cast iron frying pan and stood in a chair by the front door and cold-cocked him in the head as he walked in. He slide down the wall out cold. He recovered, but after that he always came home on time or asked me for permission to go play pool.

[mnhtnbb]

70. Ouch.

I had a 2 month old, colicky baby. My husband went off on his annual duck hunting
trip to Texas with the boys, which was mostly an excuse to stay up late, drink bourbon, watch football, smoke cigars
and play poker.

When he came home--this was between Christmas and New Year's--and all our college baby sitters had gone home
for vacation and I had no family nearby--I had caught a cold and been taking care of this
2 month old 24 hours/day for 5 days straight. He walked in the door and I handed
him his son and told him I was going to bed. You know what he said to me? But
I've been traveling all day.

I didn't cold cock him, but I sure understand the sentiment.

[Smarmie Doofus]

71. So... basically you're saying it's ok to beat your husband unconscious....

... running the risk of brain damage.... as long as you are sufficiently angry at him.

We're back to step one.

[Union Scribe]

80. 4 DUers found your violent assault acceptable.

Good job highlighting the double standard the OP sought to break down, jurors.

[U4ikLefty]

81. I know...how disgusting is that?

...but hey, it's only a man.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

83. At least they got caught on their double down

Unreal.

[U4ikLefty]

82. THIS IS A FUCKING DISGUSTING POST

[hifiguy]

68. That happened to a friend of mine.

He would leave the house. After the third time he was assaulted by his wife he just said "to hell with this" packed a bag, left, and never went back.

[LWolf]

72. Abuse is abuse

regardless of the gender of the abuser.

[Doctor_J]

74. The thread that said men shouldn't post about being abused got many more rec's than yours

such is the state of the "rampantly misogynist" DU.

Bless you and I hope you're OK.

[Smarmie Doofus]

77. Good god. Do ya' have a link for that one?

Never mind. Maybe I'm better off not seeing it.

[kcr]

85. Where is the thread that said men shouldn't post about being abused? n/t

[Doctor_J]

86. on the greatest page. it's called something like

Why do duers keep posting that men are abused too, or something like that

[kcr]

87. That isn't saying what you claim it is n/t

[Doctor_J]

88. Really? Here is most of the op

What bugs the shit out of me is how these no duh statements/posts pop up when there is a serious case being discussed like the Ray Rice incident.

Is it an attempt to minimize the issue of male abuse against women?

Again we get it---women can abuse men. But if you think for a minute that it's just as bad for men as for women, well then you probably think it's just as bad for White people than people of color.

It says that anyone who posts that women can be abusers too is "minimizing male-on-female violence". And that's what I claim it's saying.

[kcr]

89. Really. I read the OP.

Context matters. You're ignoring context which is why your'e taking it that way.

[UTUSN]

78. True equality n/t

[lovemydog]

84. K & R - thank you for your post Hobo!