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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObama finalizing plans to have your tech job replaced by foreigners
Or, if you're lucky enough to hold onto your job, it's likely your wages will be kept stagnant by the further influx pool of cheap foreign labor.
Tech industry groups lobbied Obama, gave him their "wish list", and he is happily responding in kind: spouses of H-1B visa holders who are currently in the US will be granted the same work visas as their spouses, thus doubling (at the very least) the number of available H-1B's in the US. And surprise, surprise! The US Chamber of Offshoring/Commerce is fully on board with the administration's plan to double the number of H-1B visas through the spouse loophole.
(Followup to some previous posts on the subject.)
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2598332/technology-law-regulation/obama-s-options-for-tech-immigration-take-shape.html
Obama's options for tech immigration take shape
By Patrick Thibodeau
Computerworld | Aug 20, 2014 5:38 PM PT
When President Barack Obama takes executive action on immigration, he's expected to give final approval to a rule allowing spouses of H-1B visa holders, now barred from working in the U.S., to get jobs. There could be more changes as well as the Obama administration has met with various tech groups to collect wish lists.
snip
More certain is final White House approval of a rule to allow spouses of H-1B visa holders who are seeking green cards with authorization to work. For now, spouses can't hold jobs.
Writing in opposition was the Society of Professional Engineering in Aerospace (SPEEA), whose members are employed as scientists and in technical positions at several large companies, including Boeing.
SPEEA said that there is "the strong likelihood" that spouses will have science, technology, engineering and math degrees (STEM), and that in many cases may work for the same employer are their H-1B holding spouse. It warned that if the rule is adopted, "employers will likely exploit this opportunity by preferentially hiring H-1B workers with STEM-degreed spouses in order to acquire two STEM workers with one H-1B visa."
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce supports the (granting of H-1B's to spouses) rule, arguing that employed spouses "will improve the likelihood that highly skilled H-1B workers will seek to stay in the U.S. on a permanent basis and remain in the U.S. labor force."
Thibodeau: An H-1B cap hike would mean a grim future for workers.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
merrily
(45,251 posts)enough qualified workers in the US population of about 350 million souls.
Draw your own conclusions.
Me, I have no doubt that employers tell her that there are not enough qualified USians, but I don't believe she is sufficiently uninformed or gullible to believe them.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)willing to work 60 hrs a week for minimum wage. Most tech jobs now require at least a BS. Many require Masters.
The cost of education makes it somewhat unattractive to work for low-wage jobs. Loan rules and all, you see.
Students are stuck forever paying these loans. Foreign students, OTOH, get all sorts of tuition breaks, living expenses, etc. many paid by the host nation, or us.
Add to that fact that a degree isn't at all necessary to perform the work required and you get a lot of unemployed Americans, willing and capable, with no way to get a job.
merrily
(45,251 posts)LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)I've seen it too.
I'm a bit on the fence about spouses getting to work. Some of those jobs pay slave wages and most of those visa holders have a family. I think it's great that spouses will be able to work (in my humble opinion).
I'm married to an immigrant so I know what it's been like for him.
freebrew
(1,917 posts)and what I see happen to others around me. I worked in manufacturing most of my working life.
I've had co-workers with visas, made friends with most. Had bosses with visas, they were decent bosses.
Some were forced to come here by the company as Canadian plants were closed to dis-band the union shop there.
Those workers were no less likely to be screwn by the company, their salaries were pretty good.
I think what bothers me with the visa argument: Most of the students I knew from out of country were here with either our tax $ or their country's, expecting those graduates to go back to improve their host nation. Most of them stayed here for the $$ or maybe got married. I don't fault that, but corps have used this to undermine the salary structure based upon the costs of the training/education required to get the job.
I think what I just wrote might be a little disjointed, it's early and I'm still half sleeping. Sorry.
An aside...
The last corp. I worked for gave raises by % of your wage or salary. So, the company grew less and less profitable as it was paying its local managers 6 figures, the head guys $Ms and the folks doing the work peanuts.
What amazes me: what incoherent behavior is being taught in our business schools that explains firing the workers(blue and white collar) doing everything they can to do a good job and keeping the management team that screwed things up in the first place?
warrant46
(2,205 posts)like Operating Engineers who make $75.00 or so an hour operating cranes etc. If they could get Mexicans at $12.00 an hour just think of the profits they could pocket
merrily
(45,251 posts)It may be more about politics.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)If you want a stimulus of more people working to have more people spending money WITHIN our economy WITHIN our country, then hiring more people that will send their wages overseas is NOT the way to do that!
Now maybe that is the rationale that Obama is using for this sort of "reform" that perhaps H-1B workers will be more apt to bring their families to live over here in the U.S. instead and spend the money domestically, if both spouses are working here instead of having the family live at home and stockpiling a big portion of their wages there in savings to spend later when their H-1B contract runs out.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Rather, it was about helping out these poor employers who (according to her) had been telling her that they just could not find qualified people to hire.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... but that is lower priority than helping her "friends" (that aren't us, even if she's trying to make us think that we are)
antigop
(12,778 posts)At the same time, they say, she has worked hard to secure money to assist workers who have lost jobs to outsourcing and wants to retrain the American workforce to compete better in the global marketplace.
Still waiting to hear from Hillary exactly WHAT an IT worker or engineer is supposed to train for after his/her job is replaced by a visaholder.
merrily
(45,251 posts)ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)OhioChick
(23,218 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)proclamation.
so discouraging.
leftstreet
(36,107 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)warrant46
(2,205 posts)pa28
(6,145 posts)You have to watch what he does because when he's talking to liberal or labor it's often the opposite of what he says.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Those poor Corporations that now have to go to China and elsewhere where they don't have to abide by our labor laws, while still taking advantage of our tax breaks btw, to get cheap labor, wouldn't have to do that if WE could just provide them with the same cheap labor right here??
Equal rights to the same slave labor pay! What could be more Democratic? And looking at the pay rate of Americans as compared to several decades ago, it looks like the plan is working.
Global standards for labor makes the whole world a stage for the Corporate thugs who are hoarding more and more money as they pay less and less to the workers who made them rich.
pampango
(24,692 posts)I don't think there are many liberals who support LESS equality in global salaries. (That sounds like a republican/conservative goal.) We want our standard of living to improve even if poorer countries improve faster and eventually catch up with us.
Most of the income gains in the past 25 years have gone to the bottom 70% and the top 5% on the global income scale. Those who have suffered have been the bottom 5% and the 80-90 percentile in income.
There should be a way to reign in the top 5% with their exponential increase in income and redistribute it to the bottom 5% and the 80-90% people. (The folks in the 10%-70% range have had even greater percentage increases in their income than the top 5% has had.) We should be able to do this without jeopardizing the progress made by the lowest 2/3 of the world's population.
The key to help the American middle class while those of poorer countries rise. It can be done as evidenced by many progressive countries with progressive taxes, good safety net, strong unions and effective regulation. These countries have much stronger middle classes than we do. It takes smart legislation on taxes, union, regulation and the safety net. Without such legislation (and we are nowhere near passing anything of the sort), our middle class will continue to suffer.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I was being facetious. Should have added a sarcasm tag.
What I am saying is that they are doing the opposite, trying to lower the wages of workers in first world nations so that Corporations will have a cheap labor force even in first world nations. When people are out of a job they are more likely to accept low wages rather than earn nothing at all.
Great charts btw, thank you for your comment. I completely agree.
BlindTiresias
(1,563 posts)For americans to leave the country like many of our ancestors left theirs. Clearly this country wasn't the great place my great grandparents thought it was.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)was a great place for our great grandparents. But when the Reagans, the Bushes, and the Obamas came along it was all over but the shouting. Wait until the people get their 2016 premiums for ACA. The understanding for the hangers-on will come full tilt at that time. Americans have begun to flee the US now. But one better know someone wherever one plans on going. There are few fertile fields anymore.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)Waiting on a contract to live overseas and we're counting the hours.
You can't have job security if there isn't any of that going around.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)meaculpa2011
(918 posts)to find a better life. They did, and it meant a better life for their children and grandchildren.
It's time for me to honor their memory and do the same for my children and grandchildren.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... so this is a little HOF IMHO...
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... especially when you consider that places like India actually pay for bachelor's degrees for their citizens, unlike American citizens. Now talking to Indians myself, I know that U.S. institutions for degrees are still held in higher regard, but if you think about what will start to happen, is that you'll get many couples who have both had free college bachelors degrees in India, and many of them come over here for graduate degrees to be better positioned for H-1B visas, and I'll need to check on this, but I think there are provisions for support for these degrees in this program too. Now, both husband and wife will come here and spend their college money on graduate degrees to be set up for H-1B visa jobs, especially with this newer provision. They spend all of their college money just on the graduate degree here locally, and American college graduates are heavy in debt with just bachelor's degrees that they had to pay for, and now more of them without jobs, and don't have money to spend on graduate degrees here themselves.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Educate thyself.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... in the same field or even around it.
STEM is already world wide rare
TBF
(32,056 posts)I live here in Houston and the STEM folks are all over. Being from an artsy family my kids actually have some advantage in the arts because that is not the norm here. We have NASA, medical center, amazing engineers - these folks are all STEM and their kids are acing the math & science STAAR tests (whether their families are Indian, Asian or originally European - we have a lot of diversity here as well).
It may not be the same in Peoria but I know what I'm seeing in this city.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 9, 2014, 02:36 PM - Edit history (2)
And they usually married other engineers.
Maybe you went a long time ago. But at MIT, for example, women are almost half of the undergraduates now.
http://wiki.mitadmissions.org/Women_at_MIT
Women make up nearly half of MIT's undergraduate student body and a growing number of its faculty and leaders, including MIT's former President, Susan Hockfield. In 2009-2010, there were 1,916 undergraduate women and 1,916 graduate women studying at MIT, and 213 female faculty.
SNIP
In the past 30 years, as society finally began to see that math, science and engineering weren't "just for boys" anymore, MIT has enrolled a skyrocketing number of women students. Gifted young women with a passion for technical subjects have found in MIT an extremely collaborative and supportive educational environment - and they have made it even stronger and more dynamic.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)Many of our coworkers and friends share the same occupation as their spouse having met in school or at work.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)We are both IT and degreed.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)...working age adults lets not pick out the exceptions and make them the rule... it's a logical fallacy
Anyone got any numbers on double STEM households?
My understanding is it's very rare...
regards
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Sheesh. I was born in the morning, but it wasn't this morning.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)By the way, I hate doing your research.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Doing your fricken' research.
Okay, let me make the connection for you. You made a completely unsubstantiated claim, "rarely do the spouces (sic.) have same STEM occupation". When others offered personal evidence refuting it, you hypocritically demanded empirical proof.
I offered an article which bolstered the anecdotal evidence ("A new working paper by an international team of economists finds that better educated people are increasingly more likely to marry other better-educated people while those with less formal schooling are more likely to choose a less well-educated partner."
This means that those with degrees, including STEM degrees, tend to pair with persons of similar levels of education (STEM and non-STEM). By reducing the number of non-degreed persons from the pool of potential mates, the chance of people pairing with a STEM degreed person increases. It's called assortatative mating.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2385152
So here is what you need to do. If you still think that STEM folks behave like the poles of magnets and repel each other, then you should find an article directly showing it, an article that implies it, or perhaps conduct your own research.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)The men they go to school or work with.
My daughter and her husband were in the same STEM major at the same engineering school. All their friends consist of couples who are both in engineering.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Both geneticists and both work for the same employer.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Maybe more feminism in your diet would make your posts better.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Retrograde
(10,136 posts)My own family, for one.
Response to brentspeak (Original post)
Post removed
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)My industry was decimated by low wage workers from Bulgaria and Czechoslovakia. Those countries trained workers in special effects for free or low cost (instead of the very expensive training most people get here) as a way to woo producers with cheap, union-free labor. And producers never met a way to screw crew they didn't love. Now they have imported those workers and have them living on "campuses" where they work 16-18 hours a day making $20 or less an hour for jobs that were sometimes $200 and hour before.
Nobody here is a racist, so please don't stoop that low.
Sopkoviak
(357 posts)That had 15 to 20 crews working until the industry was inundated by low paid immigrants from low wage countries and he had to close up shop.
What's your point?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)So you believe employers should be able to import workers who are willing to make far less than an American worker?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)I have a husband in STEM who is affected by these visas, and my working class family (uncles, cousins) has been destroyed by cheap immigrant labor - roofers, masonry, carpentry, you name it. People around here don't seem to understand that Americans actually lived off of those paychecks, and they didn't have to live 10 people to a two-room apartment to do it. Sure, they didn't make much money, but it was a living back then. My brothers did roofing work for a neighbor to put themselves through college (first generation college graduates.) My dad did masonry and painting as a "side" job.
With the oilfield downturn in the eighties, I had family that moved across the country and started their own landscaping business. They did well enough to support their kids, too. It was hard work, but they did it. Now, they can't find work doing that, either.
It's funny how everyone around here supports driving down the wages of the working class, but scream about STEM workers.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)...about hating immigrants but I don't see how a 1 or 2% lift in H1Bs is going to create the HOF situation the OP is describing
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)the STEM immigrants have spouses who are STEM -- according to the arguments of the people who have been pushing for this. They claim that these additional STEM workers are needed, but they're not -- except to lower salaries for everyone.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)ChromeFoundry
(3,270 posts)You will continue to pay for the computer.
They will now post under your account here on DU.
...Because they don't complain as much as you.
...And someone told us that you are not smart enough to keep posting here on DU.
Oh, and why are you stating that this is unfair? Are you racist?
Not much different, is it?
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Seriously, how dare American workers feel some sense of entitlement to jobs in our own country?
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)I am making less money in tech job contracts or permanent jobs than I did 20 years ago, primarily due to the movement towards contracting jobs like this. And I'm not "less qualified".
What I would rather see is an accelerated process for REAL immigration for those who want to work here, and become CITIZENS who can VOTE, and BECOME PART OF UNIONS! The tech sector early on didn't need union representation, and never really got them started through the years of the dotcom boom before it busted on the laddering scams, etc. Now, it has no chance of starting unions BY DESIGN by so much H-1B Visa workers that were not supposed to be here as "cheaper labor", but to fill in spots that U.S. workers aren't qualified for. But in fact it IS to get cheaper labor for equivalent experience as data through the years shows, when loopholes are being used to not offer equivalent salaries to those in the programs.
We'd be much better off pushing for global trade unions and labor rights, etc. to keep the 'bottom' from being present that these companies race to. There would be a lot less workers willing to move here when if their salaries and cost of living overseas wasn't one tenth of what it is here like it is in places like India. And there wouldn't be as much value in companies moving shop over there too then. We should focus on renegotiating these so-called "free trade" treaties, helping real immigration instead of forcing those wanting citizenship to wait 10 years for that to happen in many cases.
Don't make this a "brown people" thing. This applies to all immigrants coming here. There are many white eastern europeans here that I have as much a problem with hiring as those from places with "brown people".
And if you think that H-1B workers aren't abused, or won't be abused, also look at how H-2B workers (not tech but hired as guest workers too) were treated when they were brought over to help clean up the hurricane Katrina mess. Then you'd see why these exploitive programs that only benefit the 1% in reality should be shut down or minimized for the original priorities that provided the rationale for their creation.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)of (non-existent) employee shortages. And now we are supposed to reduce the number of jobs available when they graduate?
STEM workers from other countries are needed to help develop their own countries. They don't need to be brought here so that employers can reduce wages on everyone.
Sopkoviak
(357 posts)Housekeepers, yard and pool, sheetrock hanger, tile layer and so on and so forth workers from other countries are needed to help develop their own countries.
What makes Stem and IT workers so sacrosanct?
Or is it all about whose ox is being gored?
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)these skilled workers for exactly the same reason Obama claims we do -- to help grow their economies.
Which will benefit the low skilled workers in the long run.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)see: http://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/
This is just more effort by the government to help large corporations continue to suppress worker wages. It has nothing to do with the color of one's skin.
dilby
(2,273 posts)Unfortunately the industry I work in is severely lacking in good engineers we have plenty of applicants but none of them actually qualify for the positions they are applying for or would not be a cultural fit for the company. The company has taken the position that they will not be importing any H-1B visa engineers and has put a lot of effort on recruiting kids in college to help direct them into the engineering careers we need.
Demobrat
(8,976 posts)"would not be a cultural fit for the company."? Where I live (the SF Bay Area) it's code for "you're too old". What does it mean where you are?
dilby
(2,273 posts)If you are a redneck from the south you probably would not be a fit, if you are someone who leans left and and a little quirky then you will be just fine.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Not the bad kind.
"Cultural fit" aren't even clever code words.
dilby
(2,273 posts)People who have to work closely together are better suited to work with like minded people. Apple has a culture, Google has a culture, Disney has a culture, Turner has a culture and if you talked to anyone from those companies they would be very open about their cultures and that they look for like minded people in their hiring process.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)My company promotes diversity so we have quite a few gay employees and a lot of female engineers. We would not want to hire people who are homophobes or those that promote the good ole boy atmosphere that is seen at other tech companies.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Just curious. I'm not looking right now, because I currently have a job, but I am from the south. I'm no redneck. I'm about as liberal as they come. Would that fit the culture or would simply being from the south mean no?
dilby
(2,273 posts)I probably should not have said southern redneck and just said redneck. And we have gay female engineers as well. My company offered domestic partner benefits from the start 5 years ago, which was a benefit to both gay and straight employees because it meant you did not have to get married to make sure the person you loved was covered under your health benefits.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Very neat and clean and polite (Is that a culture?) - adults including grannies, grandpas, teens, blacks, whites, non-white hispanics, asians, including a couple of women with head scarves. (We have a number of Muslims in my community, which is very diverse.)
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's legal, but your company is discriminating against people who are "different." It is not discriminating based on ability or training or job readiness but on who the people are. Similarly another company might claim its company culture requires it to hire people who live in conventional families -- no gay or lesbian couples, no mixed race families, etc. Culture is another word for -- we don't like the way you live, therefore we won't hire you.
Admit what it is. That is a good starting point toward a tolerant workplace.
dilby
(2,273 posts)condemned here. My company promotes a very diverse workplace but because of that we need people who support and appreciate diversity. I am pretty sure most of the people on this board would do just fine at my company, it's absolutely everyone right to be a bigot however it does not mean they have a right to work at any company. A culture that promotes diversity is very important and a culture where people all get along promotes a healthy office environment.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I get that the opposite of discriminate is indiscriminate, and that everyone makes judgment calls about the character of an applicant during an interview, but "diversity" and "a culture where people all get along" are antonyms.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)bigots, homophobes or misogynists? Abusers violate the law, but bigots, homophobes and misogynists do not as long as their biases are not company policy. The problem is not hiring someone who has a prejudice. The problem is incorporating the prejudice into company policy.
I seriously doubt whether you ask people their opinions about religion, homosexuality, gender preference or guns before you hire them. Surely you don't. You just pick who you like.
I think you are misstating your case most likely. I'm hoping that you mean that you hire people you like, not that you apply some sort of test on their opinions before you hire them.
I think you are conveying a meaning that you probably do not have. Am I wrong?
dilby
(2,273 posts)We do not ask positions but most often positions come out during interviews, if someone speaks negatively against several female bosses that raises a red flag, does not mean they are not getting hired but it does mean we need to speak with their references and also former bosses to see if there is an issue with working with women. Most companies have very stringent interview processes were they weed out candidates that would not be a fit, we also check facebook and twitter posts for anything that could be considered problematic, if a candidate has a like on "I stand with Phil" or whatever that is not a problem but it does mean you check some of the other stuff to see if they have ever made racist or homophobic comments. The company I work for goes out of it's way to hire the brightest and yes sometimes there are very qualified candidates who don't get hired due to their history that comes up during the investigation period.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)gender, and you don't discriminate based on religion. Almost all companies or firms hire people they like.
remind me not to work for your d-bag company
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)So, you're saying he wouldn't be able to get a job because he has a Southern accent?
That is discrimination.
Edited to add: And I really don't know too many "redneck" engineers, so it would have to boil down to the accent. How very "not liberal."
dilby
(2,273 posts)We have people from North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Texas and Mississippi working here. What we don't have is people like the Robertsons who are quite offensive to many. We have religious people but they are not spreading their gospel, we have hunters but they are not bringing their dead animals in out of respect for the large group of vegetarian and vegan employees.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)Do you think the Robertsons represent everyone from the south? But everyone would say the Robertsons are Rednecks from the South.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)I understood what you were saying. If I'm ever looking for a job, I'd throw my resume your way.
Many of the folks who post here are just nimrods engaged in willful ignorance. They love telling progressives they are tea baggers, telling advocates of equality that they are bigots, try to portray feminists and misogynists, and generally stir the shit stew.
It's a common character flaw that occurs throughout the political spectrum.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Handiwork similar to their work can be seen here:
http://failblog.cheezburger.com/thereifixedit
We call that redneck engineering where I live. It is just a funny running joke about some of their "repairs."
Just thought I would throw some humor into this depressing ass conversation. I'd hate to think just because I'm from the south that I wouldn't "fit" into a "diverse" company when I happen to also be female, liberal and gay (lesbian for those who prefer that word). Bless their hearts.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I find that a bit odd.
dilby
(2,273 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)"would not be a cultural fit for the company" excerpt of your post. Now that I have reread it, my post doesn't make much sense.
However, I do feel that basing hiring decisions on cultural fits is a very poor policy and that your company will lose out by using it. I understand that it would seem like a dream environment to only have to work with those that you get along with and share certain beliefs but you will also miss out on potentially stimulating and divergent ideas by limiting your viewpoints.
Plus, I still view privacy as one of the most important aspects of our Constitution and your policy seems to not only require people to divulge their political viewpoints but to also be prejudiced against those from certain regions.
Not only that, but you are missing the opportunity to share what you know with those whose beliefs you don;t share. Perhaps you can change some minds. I know I have done so at work.
Still, I do apologize for not thoroughly reading your post before replying.
dilby
(2,273 posts)I started at my company when it was a small startup, a lot of the first hires were friends or friends of friends. There was just a handful of people who worked in really tight quarters for long hours. Everyone got along, did things outside of work together and it was more of a family atmosphere. Since I started this went from a small company to a global company and one thing the founders wanted to retain was the same feel the company had when it was a tiny startup. This is where the culture was first formed and it's something retained today. I know my UK counterparts all really well and I got along with them from the moment I met them when I had to work on a long project in the London. I had the same opportunity with my Hong Kong counterparts and it was the same. I have never worked in a company where everyone got along, no one was stabbing someone in the back and most importantly you did not feel someone did not belong there based on their skill set. The culture was very organic and natural in the beginning based on friends who were like minded working together and became a blueprint that was used for new hires.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)It really does sound like a wonderful place to work. At the same time, none of us would want to be barred from employment based upon our 'green' or 'liberal' culture.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)And blacks.
And any other person of color.
They don't "fit in."
Glad to see that most employers in Houston don't think the way you think. We have a very diverse STEM workforce here and are proud of it.
Although I'm not in STEM, I'm married to a programmer, and get that geeks tend to have their own culture and tend to dress like slobs , but personal religious beliefs and political beliefs tend not to invade that culture around here. The African American guy, the Russian woman, the Mexican American guy, the Texas redneck, and the cajun guy all seem to work great together. The office culture is different from their home culture.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)I know lots of experienced engineers who have worked places like Apple and Google and Disney. They aren't kids right out of school though.
dilby
(2,273 posts)PM me and I will send you a link to our open careers.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)"Cultural fit" of this kind makes my blood curdle.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)There was a time when a woman couldn't get hired because she didn't play golf or fit in.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Dilby was just being honest and now s/he is getting excoriated for it, but fact remains, this isn't as uncommon as you'd like to believe.
The son of one of my husband's colleagues owns a successful cigar-bar in Arkansas. He refuses to hire women to work for him. He told hubby that women bring too much drama to the workplace. Those are his exact words. Oh, and he's a diehard Republican, too. He must believe, like U.S. Rep Ed Royce believes, that my husband is a Republican because of the conservative way he dresses for work (suits and ties).
I don't agree with these prejudiced hiring policies, but it is a fact of life in the United States, and the RW don't have any qualms not hiring women, minorities, or any other people who aren't a "culteral fit", although now they have to hide it, simply telling applicants that they're "not qualified".
dilby
(2,273 posts)There is a big difference between discrimination against protected classes and hiring practices that encourage diversity and like minded people.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Businesses in this country are always given a more superior position than workers/employees. And since Affirmative Action has been banned in California (along with five other States), I'll be expecting to see more minorities unemployed in the foreseeable future.
dilby
(2,273 posts)If you have problems with a female boss, this is not the place for you. If you have problems with working with GLBT then this is not the place for you. If you have problems with the number of women who work in engineering than this is not the place for you. If you have a problem with a company that cares about all their employees dietary needs and you regularly make fun of vegans, vegetarians and pescatarians than this not the place for you. If you don't like Democrats like Senator Wyden who has met with us several times then this is not the place for you.
My company regularly takes political positions on GLBT issues and environmental issues especially those that affect Global warming. It would not be beneficial for us to have employees who disagree with those positions, yes we probably have those who disagree but they don't share their positions because it really goes against the companies core values.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)but it's still bias based on thought.
If your posting was an employment ad you would be flagged by EEO in half a second.
"_____________'s" need not apply is repugnant regardless of who's doing it.
dilby
(2,273 posts)But yeah we don't put that in the job description, but when you have cultural fits you really don't need to. You can get a feel for people during the interview process which takes a long, long time. Generally it's 2 phone interviews then an all day in person interview.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)Better to be safe than sorry.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Nobody complains about undoccumented imigrants bringing wages down, but suddenly when they are the spouse of an H1 visa its bad?
If they are in this county legally I dont have a problen with them getting a job to support their family.
warrant46
(2,205 posts)H1B visa holders work for $8.00 an hour in a more skilled area
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Ask anyone who grew up around the construction industry - painters, masonry workers, roofers, tilers, carpenters, sheet rockers, road workers, heavy construction workers, heavy equipment operators.
The fishing industry.
Hotel workers.
Laundry facilities.
Hair and nail salons.
House maids and nannies.
Landscaping crews.
And the list goes on and on.
And getting longer - the trucking industry is moving to that list.
Just about any working class job that doesn't require a good working knowledge of English is suffering from wage suppression, if you can get the job at all.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)warrant46
(2,205 posts)And the Repuke voters around where I live (Who are mostly on SSI or SSDI or just plain old social security) Decry the laziness of "Negroes" and other whites who sit around and collect welfare and don't want to work
Note these Illegals milk cows on mega farms (5000 COWS OR MORE) for $6.00 an Hour CASH
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I think what people here say is that the immigration system is so broken that we cannot find fault with the current undocumented individuals in this country. That is at least how I feel. I still don't think I have ever seen anyone here or in the democratic party claim that illegal immigration is good. Seeing as that was the basis for your point, I find the argument to fall short from the start.
"Why is H1 visa bad but illegal immigration good?"
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Look, there's no way I could look one person in the face who is here illegally and say "You gotta' leave." In fact, I'm for granting them a path to citizenship....AFTER we get illegal immigration under control.
And the first step on the way is harsh penalties for employers!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I have read your post multiple times now and still don't get the point being made.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)How many people here claim , "Oh, I'm not for illegal immigration!" while at the same time putting down the welcome mat?
Believe me, many people here think illegal immigration "is" a good thing. If you can't have a discussion about the negative effects of illegal immigration without being called a "racist" here by many people, you have to believe that they support illegal immigration. I've read here for years, and watched folks get chewed up and spit out for that.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Here or elsewhere.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Just because no one says "illegal immigration is a good thing" doesn't mean they don't support it. Just the fact that it is impossible to have an honest discussion on the subject tells me many support it. I mean who wants to be called "racist," "nativist," "selfish," "right wing" and on and on. I guess I don't care because I've read here for years, and if I have to go back to "read only" it's no skin off my nose. Not being emotionally invested here, I don't care what people think.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)you really have no clue
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Just call me a racist and be done with it.
These jobs have all suffered from serious wage suppression in many parts of the country:
painters, sheetrock workers, bricklayers, carpenters, hair stylists and manicurists, yard and garden workers, dock workers and fishermen, dry cleaners, hotel workers, maids, nannies, and on and on. You know, the jobs that no one wants to do now that wages have been suppressed so much? Folks used to actually DO those jobs.
I don't blame anyone for coming here for a better life, and I certainly couldn't send them home, but let's not pretend that blue collar workers haven't been affected by illegal immigration while at the same time decrying professional workers on H1-B visas.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)loves illegal immigration. And when pressed for proof, you attack. And you've got a very low post count.
In other words, it's abundantly clear you're being a troll quoting the Fox News idea of what liberals think.
And, btw, you're utterly clueless about H1B visas and the restrictions around them that make them far worse for workers.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)My main television viewing is CNN. I used to watch MSNBC, but I watch it less and less.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Some of us have actually been quite affected by immigration, legal and illegal.
My husband is a 50 year old programmer who has never been out of work. He's good. Very good. He survived the last round of cuts, but he sees the writing on the wall. This next influx of H1-B visa workers is going to hit the native workers in this industry and it's going to hurt.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with you
Andy823
(11,495 posts)You should start a new thread on this.
As has been posted below illegal immigrants work in all kinds of fields that help keep wages down for the average worker. Those who come here on work visa's have done so through the proper channels. I don't think it's right for employers to abuse this program by claiming they can not find people to do the jobs when many of the are simply trying to keep wages down. I think the "employers" need to have solid proof that they can find no help before they bring in workers they know will take less pay.
The same should go with any employer who is hiring workers who will work for less, usually illegals, when they never really look or local help. Way to many employers, no matter what kind of jobs the offer, are abusing the immigration laws and have been for years. We need a FAIR system that does not discriminate no matter what the jobs are. Instead of trying to keep wages down, we should be trying to do more to "raise"wages in other countries.
I agree with you, if they are legally in this country I have no problem with them working. We need to come up with a real immigration plan to get those who are here to support their families legalized into the system. I know there is a need workers in many fields, but the employer needs to obey all the laws wither it be hiring illegal workers, or apply to bring in H1 visa workers.
The employers are the problem and as long as they can get away with breaking the laws, or with lying about being able to fill jobs without visa workers nothing will get done. The rich will get richer, and the poor will get poorer, and that's no the way it should be. We need "real" immigration reform and we need it now.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Both of these "guest worker" programs are there to allow the 1% employers to have "legal" means of exploiting indentured servant labor, and not have to rely on the government stop enforcing laws being broken by ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS that was started by Ronald Reagan's administration after amnesty was passed.
The difference is, is that for most lower wage jobs, it is easier for the employer to exploit and really abuse undocumented workers who are more apt to let them get away with such abuse than for workers with high tech backgrounds who work at H-1B jobs here. The tech industry wouldn't be able to get away with hiring people illegally without getting exposed and called to task for it and therefore they needed a program that they could bend the rules to get the same sort of "slave labor" that they could abuse as illegals.
After Katrina, they needed a lot of workers to help rebuild Louisiana, and in that case relied on the H-2B program which is similar to H-1B but hires average workers that might come in illegally otherwise. Now, if you look at the older news reports and how those brought in from other countries and the kind of abuse they put these people under (holding their passports hostage, etc.), you'll see how these sorts of "guest worker" programs should be SHUT DOWN or far better regulated. With Katrina they could have and SHOULD have hired residents of that area to do this work when they really needed it to get a living and housing again.
http://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnewsroom/immigration/b/outsidenews/archive/2013/06/28/multiple-trafficking-rico-civil-rights-violations-lawsuits-filed-on-behalf-of-h-2b-visa-workers.aspx
This isn't just about us STEM employees feeling like we are "special" and shouldn't be subject to H-1B competition. This sort of guest worker program is a threat to all American jobs and industries if we let it get institutionalized here and will take us further down the path of an oligarchy with no middle class.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)H1B visas are temporary. The worker has to leave the country when they expire. So they aren't immigrants.
Second, the H1B visa gives enormous power to the company - if you upset your boss, you're thrown out of the country. You also can't seek out a new job with another employer - the current employer would have to agree to transfer your visa, and why would the new employer hire you when your time limit is closer than a new H1B visa.
If the people on H1B visas were instead immigrating on a permanent basis, it would have a much smaller effect on wages.
You got that backwards. You have to have the job first, then you can get an H1B visa. No employer, no visa.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)But not because of visas, instead because of offshoring. There used to be many VFX studios in LA, and thousands of VFX workers but that job has been off shored to countries that like Canada, New Zealand and the UK where the government subsidizes the industry. There were plenty of experienced educated workers but they've mostly all left the country to chase work opportunities. But hey, let's offer more visas so we can suppress worker wages even more. I mean twenty years of illegal wage suppression clearly wasn't enough. See: http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/disney-dreamworks-aninmation-lawsuit-1201300974/
and http://cinesourcemagazine.com/index.php?/site/comments/pixar_ilm_and_dreamworks_stung_by_wage_fixing_scandal/#.VA88uUvi6g8
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)When it comes to immigration, it "feels" better to support poor immigrants instead of somewhat less poor Americans. Anything less is "racist" or lacking in "empathy."
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Which is a good thing for the 95% of the people in the world who aren't Americans, honestly. The USA has over the past century enjoyed the benefits of a grotesquely disproportionate share of global GDP:
See that? From a postwar high of 35% of global GDP, to around 30% in 1980 and 25% in 1990 down to around 22% at present. That curve is only going to keep going down because of the economic rise of China and India. As it well should; I can't think of any good reason why a country with 5% of the global population should take in 25-30% of the total wealth produced.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Very true. However, many aren't look for wealth...just a job to feed and clothe their families. (And, yes, I do know what you mean by "wealth." )
But does globalization really mean that all the construction jobs go to illegal immigrants and the STEM jobs go to immigrants, too?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)that wages are still so low in Mexico and Colombia and so on, and in India and China, is the reason workers from those countries are coming to the USA. They get paid more than they would at home even if it's less than an American would make.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)While I agree that wages are moving towards convergence (the high wages after WWII cannot be duplicated unless we want another world war ), we don't have to assist in destroying the wages of Americans.
Seriously, my working class family did most jobs in construction. Those jobs clothed, housed, and fed us. Why should those wages be suppressed by illegal immigration?
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)The Obama administration, for instance, intervened to keep Haiti from raising their minimum wage for textile workers because it would drive up the price of Levi's.
This infuriated contractors for (UPDATE: I originally wrote that the companies themselves did this here, but The Nation wrote that it was contractors for the companies, so Ive added contractors for here) American corporations like Hanes and Levi Strauss that pay Haitians slave wages to sew their clothes. They said they would only fork over a seven-cent-an-hour increase, and they got the State Department involved. The U.S. ambassador put pressure on Haitis president, who duly carved out a $3 a day minimum wage for textile companies (the U.S. minimum wage, which itself is very low, works out to $58 a day).
- See more at: http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/a_pulled_scoop_shows_us_booste.php#sthash.dTiEvmCE.dpuf
And the conditions causing mass emigration from Latin America to the USA? The USA can own some of the blame for that as well; the US-led "war on drugs" and the profitability of the drugs trade have led to criminal gangs and widespread lawlessness in much of Latin America, and NAFTA basically [idestroyed the livelihoods of Mexican farmers]. The removal of agriculture tariffs meant that suddenly Mexico was flooded with heavily-subsidised US-grown corn that drove quite a lot of Mexican farmers into poverty. The USA destroyed their livelihood, why shouldn't they come to the USA to look for work, if that's where it is?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Although the working class has almost no influence on Congress, anymore.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)If they think everyone should be globalized, then maybe we should have a H-1B program to bring in cheaper CEOs from overseas so that we can have more money to pay all of the other employees then. Why? Because THEY call the shots and THEY want to have everyone as slaves for themselves! THAT is why we have this so-called "globalization". It is a SCAM to continue to drive their wealth and prosperity up, but creating bigger "bottoms" that are "globalized" that they can race to so that they can steal the wealth and prosperity of everyone else!
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)brentspeak
(18,290 posts)Whether members here are Democrats, non-Democratic party progressives, or something else entirely, one thing that everyone on DU is assumed to share, despite any particular criticisms of US policy, ultimately is a love for the United States and a desire for its citizenry to prosper.
You, on the other, are rooting for the opposite -- for Chinese and Indian citizens to benefit economically at the expense of American citizens.
I don't think its overstating it to say that you are, in fact, "anti-American".
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)I have lived outside the US for some time, now. This has given me a broader perspective. And I don't happen to think that the USA deserves to prosper at the expense of other countries. As it has done for some time, now (5% of the global population but 25% of global GDP, 30% of total resource consumption, etc).
pampango
(24,692 posts)that.
Many liberals equally have a love of all people (not just the 5% that live in the US) and have a desire for all people (not just the American 5%) to prosper.
IMHO, calling someone "anti-American" is a right wing tactic.
Liberals get accused by conservatives all the time of being "unAmerican" and not being 'patriotic' enough.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)No such thing as an American job. The job can be done anywhere, by anyone. Or anything, when it comes to automation.
At the time of the peak on that graph, who's getting all that money? White men. Women weren't really part of the labor force. The Civil Rights era hadn't started yet. There was a short period of time where white men/America was lucky. The world belonged to them. Then everyone else wanted/got in on the game.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Maybe we should punish all Americans just so we can make sure that those white men get their punishment, as well.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)As was said, the US has 5% of the world's population. We're not going to just get whatever we want because we're in "America" anymore.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)to get what we want, I completely agree.
But if you mean we should open the borders to reduce wages here IN this country, I completely disagree!
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)More of a comment on the losing of control of our own lives to distant forces. That's been the case for thousands of years with globalization. More and more people living within a single system. Each person meaning less, and thus having less value to the greater functioning of the machine.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)We don't have to lose control of our own sovereignty. We are letting the globalists win.
WestCoastLib
(442 posts)At least in American Capitalism. We had a string middle class, with production workers earning family supporting wages for a short time, but it was simply a fluke. With the early 20th century wars, Europe was decimated and rebuilding for decades. Asia was rebuilding too and not yet the economic power of today. In that tiny time frame of our history, since the wars were not fought on American soil, we were able to pick up most of that slack and be a manufacturing power.
With the exception of this fluke of history, we have only ever had what we are heading toward now. A very small number of extremely wealthy and a huge poor class, with a small middle class.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Nothing to take away now.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts).. are SOOOO much better than Republicans for the working man. Not.
kath
(10,565 posts)No more Trojan Horses!
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Clearly we should be importing more H1B managers and executives. It'll save tons of money.
And I'm sure it will happen real soon now. Real soon. Any time now.....
Because they are "creative" special snowflakes.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)You think any other President would have acted differently? Please.
Also, I don't like the anti-immigrant/nativist tone of some of the posts here.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Not sure why this is any worse than NAFTA, outsourcing, illegal immigration, Hyundai driving, etc.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)Then of course sometimes it just depends on who says what.
In terms of any sphere of life, we usually want the best of both worlds, without the downside of either one. Which is never possible. We're just good at hiding the downsides, for a time. They do eventually catch up with us though.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)with equal force.
Most importantly, it is likely not possible to expose the great mass of Americans to the vagaries of globalization while simultaneously sheltering the IT worker community from these same competitive forces.
Nor do threads like these provide any moral or logical framework for doing so. "Competition" is painful, but necessary in this globalized economy, remember? Get retrained, remember???
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)which we will have soon enough with the globalists itching to drive wages down even farther, don't you think Country A has a right to protect jobs, if Countries B, C, D, E, F, G, and H are doing so? I'd like to move to Canada, but I don't think I can. Gee, imagine that.
That seems quite logical and moral to me.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)America has already decided this issue: DEMOCRATS signed NAFTA. DEMOCRATS gave "Most Favored Nation" status to China. A DEMOCRAT (Barack Obama) recently gave us "Free Trade" with Korea. I didn't see a peep here on DU.
On the other end of the spectrum, the building trades have been utterly destroyed as a vehicle for a middle class lifestyle, due to unrestricted unskilled immigration, which is ongoing. Democrats, by and large, support this.
So what makes IT jobs the line in the sand? I don't see any logical reason to believe it will be, nor any special moral argument that it should be. The Democratic Party is the party of globalization and international capital. It would seem IT workers want an exemption from all of this, but why would they expect it, given recent history? Or, more to the point, given their own silence about "free trade" up until now?
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)Because when the Trades were getting hammered the Special Snowflakes with Degrees remained silent for they thought they were immune to this degradation(they also benefited quite nicely). That piece of paper was a shield that would protect them from the avarice of business. Any mook can build a building, but I have a degree in XYZ. Little did they know when the stone went dry of blood, their stone would be picked up and destroyed.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)which would inevitably lead to charges of "racism" here. People will remain silent as long as facts are ignored, and pejoratives are thrown around to silence discussion.
See my post 49 in this thread and read responses to my comments here. By the way, I grew up in and around the construction trades. My extended family was virtually all in construction.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)They all assume you are talking strictly about Mexican Workers and being racist.
When in fact Sheet rocking and Plastering was taken over by French Canadians that would work for sheet pay and not hourly, then after making a bundle would go back to Canada and reap a bigger reward due to the old exchange rate.
Hard wood flooring became one of the areas that Vietnamese workers concentrated on, and their are still plenty of Illegal Irishman and Portuguese coming over and laying brick for pennies on the dollar.
There is also a vast Brazilian populace here working in the trades that have hurt the local Americans.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Mostly doing tile work.
brentspeak
(18,290 posts)and want to be exempt from offshoring/inshoring? Where did this misconception come from?
As for posts on DU criticizing Democrats for their own role in shipping jobs out of the country, there must be thousands of them. I myself have posted numerous threads on the topic:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3433278&mesg_id=3433293
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x820926
Romulox
(25,960 posts)I didn't say IT workers were "cheerleaders", or even imply that they support globalization any more than the average American does. What I am saying is they are not exempt from the laws of cause and effect. We're not going to make a special carve out for IT workers after gutting the rest of the middle class. Not the least of which is because formerly middle class people don't have the money to pay you the wages that they themselves have been denied.
But I will say that it is not possible for IT workers to drum up much sympathy with an approach that ignores what has happened to the broader middle class in the last 30 years. It does indeed come off a bit like somehow this is important now, in a way that it wasn't before, because these are our jobs--in other words, self-serving.
A labor movement has to be just that--a broad movement based on collective self-interest. It can't be a collection of narrow interests armed with guilt trips. Not when the people you are addressing have themselves been devastated.
Thank you for you efforts. This is not personal. This is cause and effect, as I mentioned. We can't tear down the middle class while preserving a special place for IT workers. It'll either be a broad movement to protect workers, or IT workers will have to expect the same treatment the rest of us have gotten.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)They represent that better future that both parties have been hyping for the past fifty years. Better education. Higher paying jobs. Blah, blah, blah. Don't worry. Those manufacturing jobs are going overseas, but we will replace them with better, higher paying jobs. Sure, there's going to be some disruption and pain, but things will get better...blah, blah, blah
STEM, and in particular, IT workers are practically the mascot for those promises made. Remember those promises?
And by the way, as you can see from my many other posts here, I have a lot to say about the trades being decimated, as well!
Romulox
(25,960 posts)STEM, and in particular, IT workers are practically the mascot for those promises made. Remember those promises?
You traded the support of all of those ex-auto workers for short term job security. It's particularly insulting to say that IT workers are the canaries in the coalmine, when the entire industrial midwest lies in ruins.
At any rate, have you ever heard of a deal with the Devil that turns out just as planned? Everybody should've read the fine print. Americans sold out their fellows for empty promises.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Against NAFTA, against sending our jobs overseas, against illegal immigration suppressing wages, blah, blah, blah.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Silly me, I thought they meant foreign nations.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)A huge number of six-figure jobs go to these spouses and adult children while US citizens with credentials and qualifications take lower paying jobs just to get into the government and prestigious private companies.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)to places with lower costs of living? Intellectual property has low shipping costs.
This makes me ill.
vkkv
(3,384 posts)needs to welcome more educated workers to our shores because the U.S. isn't willing to spend the money on education for it's own people.
Many of us Libtards predicted this exact scenario... Yes, we Libs are so 'tarded'.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)All visas should be for short periods, no work permitted unless they are permanent visas.l
H-1B visas should not exist.
A person should either come here to live, come here to visit, or stay out. Student visas should be given year by year, and students should not be allowed to intern or work while living here.
Wives or husbands and family should not be given work visas if here on short-term defined visas with their families.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)... when it was manual labor jobs racing to the bottom. After all, aren't these immigrants "just taking jobs no American wants"? Maybe these tech workers should "go back to school" or "learn a trade".
Welcome to the real American labor market, tech workers. Engineers and nurses, you're next.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)hughee99
(16,113 posts)I'm not saying it will happen a lot, but someone, somewhere will do this sort of thing. Some sort of internal, corporate "H-1b-harmoney".