General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsZimmerman's brother, just on Piers Morgan, claimed that Trayvon had his hands over George's nose and
mouth George was about to pass out. He claims that is why George feared for his life and Trayvon was shot. But didn't we hear somebody yelling for help for 40 seconds before the shot? How could you yell help if you were about to pass out from lack of oxygen?
(moved from forums where it was mistakenly posted).
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
arthritisR_US
(7,810 posts)him and I think he is making matters worse. He should just stfu, he wasn't there so what does he know other than evolving self-serving statements from the murderer. Jmo. 
applegrove
(131,978 posts)oh god google me
(2 posts)Now Tray's BROTHER should STFU?! 
It's because the narrative may not be what you want and need it to be. Absolutely disgusting. George Z. is a human being, too.
FarPoint
(14,743 posts)Enjoy your pizza.
arthritisR_US
(7,810 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)this brother is making thinks infinitely worse for Z. What if this dumbass statement was court admissable?
Part of the Z's defense is that it's Z screaming calling for help on the recordings....the brother's statement is in direct opposition to that defense strategy.
Duh.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/101721647
p.s. Yep, if Trayvon was smothering Zimmerman then it can't be Zimmerman hollering for help.
Zimmerman's brother's story keeps changing - probably because he don't know shit about what really happened that night.
applegrove
(131,978 posts)
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Seen anything like this before, really.
It's so unreal, it sounds illegal somehow.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)to testify. He wasn't there ... He isn't claimed to be an alibi witness ... No won't be called.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)Firstly, shame, again, on Chicken Noodle Nuze for giving electrons to someone with no direct involvement with this and who only appears to be trying to glam on for his 15 minutes of fame. If he truly cared about his brother, he'd let the lawyer do the talking. It's just more exploitation of this tragedy that is meant to draw eyeballs and ratings and nothing else.
The only way this guy sees the inside of the courtroom is as a spectator. This case is and should be tried on real evidence, not speculation.
malaise
(295,661 posts)
Aerows
(39,961 posts)ROFL!
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)if ol' Flaming Nostrils of Justice (aka Nancy Grace) has said anything about the Trayvon Martin case and how she will handle George Zimmerman's trial.
MoonRiver
(36,975 posts)
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)Trayvon was holding him down...
...bashing his head against the pavement...
...struggling for the gun...
...and now he was holding his hands over George's hands and mouth.
No wonder George shot him. I'd be afraid of some guy in the dark with eight arms, too. /sarcasm
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)Congratulations for finding a good laugh in all this....
Bolo Boffin
(23,872 posts)the first item on his agenda should be to tell his brother, "Stop helping!"
I mean, his story is getting more and more outlandish.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)As Mr. Twain said: "Always tell the truth --- it's easier to remember."
daligirl519
(285 posts)
Monk06
(7,675 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)had to murder Trayvon. Now, it makes sense...
Oh boy!!
K Gardner
(14,933 posts) 
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Thank you SO much. I LOLed and so did everybody else when I read it to them. 
SteveABG
(134 posts)
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)
Lost-in-FL
(7,093 posts)
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts) 
LAGC
(5,330 posts)Good one, but bad on you for making me laugh over such a sad matter.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts) 
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Wow.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...for attempting to pervert the course of justice.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)Trayvon would be alive today.
NO matter what story he comes up with...The only thing Trayvon did what was "wrong"
was to be black in a hoodie in George's neighborhood.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Hillary's gonna text you in a minute and tell you:
Ballz. WTF? OVARIES kick u butt. smh
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)So he moves away from the near-fatal brutal beating scenario (for obvious reasons) and details a near suffocation. You make a good point. How could he possibly have screamed for help?
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)the hands were over his mouth?
That does soudn like it could be made up though. At least theres real evidence of wounds on the back of his head.
JI7
(93,546 posts)so it wouldn't have been long enough for him to start suffocating between those 2.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)And he wasnt unsteady on his feet. No bandages, which you would think would be mandatory so cops wouldnt contact blood. Not to mention any sort of head wound would be a mandatory trip to ER as a CYA for police and paramedics. Nope, there was no wound. Nice try, though.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)You sound like this is a political argument or something, and you want to "win".
Thats a big problem with this case (from both sides). People should try to be objective and not turn this into a political football.
I thought it was established that there are head wounds, although not severe. Ill wait for the trial and the evidence though.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)The thing is ridiculous on its face.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)"Oh, it ain't no use if you ain't got the boost
The boost you get from LOOSENERS!"
obamanut2012
(29,337 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Only the Zimmerman camps claims of such. Claims that arent substantiated by any evidence. Besides, they have now apparently abandoned the "bashed his head on the concrete within an inch of his life" claim for the equally unsubstantiated and ludicrus "he was being smothered within an inch of his life" claim. I will grant you that its difficult keeping up with the constantly changing stories.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)I just think the story is coming out little by little, not that its necessarily changing.
Wait for the trial. Don't make this another Duke case.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)and its on the top of his head. Are you suggesting Trayvon held GZ by the ankles and pile drivered him? Thats pretty far fetched. And wouldnt the wound have been bandaged? And GZ taken to the ER? I find it strange there is an unbandaged "wound" in one still, that isnt there on the video, which isnt there in other views of his head inside the station. In addition, there is no blood on his clothes, no readily apparent stains, his clothes are neat, and his demeanor is not that of a person so badly injured he was in fear of his life. It looks like hes enjoying hanging out with his "buddies". Well, we will know when the defense presents hospiital records during the trial proving the severe nature of GZs life threatening wounds. Or not...
pokerfan
(27,677 posts)One of his former lawyers tried that one last week. Apparently Trayvon was shaking George so hard that he was in danger of developing Shaken Baby Syndrome which can be fatal.
It's hard to keep track of all the different defense theories because their story keeps changing when new evidence is made public.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)A news companies digital enhancement shows a shadow on his head that could be a wound -- not admissible in court. The defense or prosecution will have their own digital enhancements and experts to weigh in.
Only injuries that have been established are the EMT report that injuries were minor.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)First off they were in the backyard. How can one hear someone clearly screaming loudly if their voice would be muffled by other people's hands? They also claimed that the boy was smashing his head. If that is the case, how are his two hands on your head...at the same time muffling your screams?
Plus the boys head is facing the back of the house on a grass with his feet pointing to the cement part. Where did the cement on the ground go? If he is facing only the grassing area and not facing the cement?
Another problem is the fact that in the 911 tapes the screams ONLY stop when you hear the gunshot. It doesn't stop before the gunshot, only AFTER the gun goes off. If your mouth is being covered....then no one can hear you scream because it's muffled and shouldn't be easily picked up by the phone in a neighbor's house. So the boy would have to be covering his mouth during the whole time that Zimmerman grabs his gun to shoot the boy. You wouldn't have been able to hear him.
It doesn't make sense what you claim. I saw the enhanced video by the way. In one instance it looks like a scar ON TOP of his head not at the back of his head. Additionally, it disappears when taking into account different angles. So I had a problem with this guys supposedly consistent story.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)I thought maybe his head was being smashed first which cause him to scream, then his mouth was covered briefly and then he pulled the gun.
It could be that he screamed through the hands too though, meaning they weren't covering his mouth entirely because he was struggling.
I don't know though, we'll know better after evidence is presented at the trial, if there is one.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)shown that it was teh young man crying for help nad not Mr. Zimmerman screaming as he claimed at the police station. So that part isn't true. You probably missed that part. Easy to do here when threads move so quickly when there's big news.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)The voice analysis is inconclusive I think.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)corrected HER and said it was Zimmerman. Odd, no?
The voice analysis was conclusive from
2 different experts. Look it up. The pice used what is called a stress voice analysis, likened to flipping a coin.
This was all available here on DU and widely in the media. You should read up and catch up.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)I believe his name is John.
I dont feel like goggling about the voice analysis.
The eyewitness said Zimmerman was calling for help. He is the only eyewitness there is, I think.
Those girls just heard the screams and gunshot, they didnt see anything.
Edit: I'll just say this finally about the voice analysis. I think they cant conclude that it was Zimmerman, but they cant conclude that it was Trayvon either. The newspaper just reported the Zimmerman part and that has mislead people. There's not enough, clear enough voice recording to establish conclusively that its either of them.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Once Zimmerman called the police and, instead of staying in his truck or car, started following Trayvon, he became the aggressor. At that point, Trayvon, ironically, had the right to stand his ground.
If Zimmerman approached Trayvon or followed Trayvon too closely, that makes Zimmerman's case all the worse.
Zimmerman's first 911 call places him in the position of the aggressor -- maybe even a stalker. Zimmerman was not wearing a uniform. He had no official authority. Trayvon had no duty to stop or to surrender to Zimmerman.
There may be facts that contradict what I am saying, but based on what I know at this point, seems to me that whatever Trayvon did to Zimmerman would not be much of an issue. Zimmerman's brother's statement is probably irrelevant.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)as being justification for using physical force.
Id have to think about it though.
Thats not what Zimemrnan said happened though.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)Every account emerging from his camp, in all their ever-changing glory, has clearly been crafted as an attempt to present his actions as being in accord with those provisions of the 'stand your ground' law of Florida which allow use of force by the aggressor in a confrontation.
Response to The Magistrate (Reply #55)
mr_liberal This message was self-deleted by its author.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)There could be justification for Trayvon to use force. Zimmerman could have thrown the first punch...
Or shooting Trayvon may not have been justified even if Zimmerman was attacked. Zimmerman will have to convince people that he genuinely feared for his life or physical well being. I think the screaming helps to prove that and that he was screaming for help (thats what the witness said). The injuries do seem minor though.
Its all just news reports now though, we'll have to wait to see what the actual evidence is.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)You have one witness claim the screams were Zimmerman: you have multiple witness statements saying it was the youth, with accredited expert analysis it was not Zimmerman. You have further witness statement that the man who fired got immediately to his feet, meaning the man who fired was on top; you have the body at some distance from the sidewalk, with feet towards the sidewalk, which makes hash of the story told by Zimmerman's camp about the 'struggle'; you have testimony of the man who prepared young Mr. Martin's body for burial that there were no signs of struggle, particularly on the hands, again contradicting claims of Zimmerman's camp. Hell, you even have the professional opinion of the original lead investigator that Zimmerman should be arrested and charged with manslaughter. And this is just a summary off the top of the head, mind....
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)It doesnt prove it was either of them because its too distorted, and the other witnesses just heard didn't see.
Good night.
The Magistrate
(96,043 posts)That is not the same as its being worthless.
Your other statement is nonesense; one does not have to see to distinguish voices, or to tell the difference between a grown man and a teen-ager.
The fact is, you have nothing but regurgitated tales from Zimmerman's people and various right-wing, and 'gotta have my gun' sites, to contribute here.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)We've been hearing different stories from Taafe, his brother, his father and Oliver when he was around. How do you marry all of them? When they don't make sense, unless the boy did have 8 arms like an above poster stated or he's a ninja of some kind.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I am hoping to see a copy of the probable cause affidavit presented to the judge, but it may also have been placed under seal.
Without seeing the evidence, all we can do is guess and theorize. Pretty worthless actually. In my experience the facts that the court and the jury see are nearly always very different from we can guess especially in a case like this. As the prosecutor stated, it will come down to a detailed analysis of facts -- like the autopsy report, maps of the locations, conflicting testimony, cross-examinations -- if the case goes that far.
I think there is a good chance that, when confronted by the evidence and told of the risks of a jury trial, Zimmerman may plead.
I hope that he is never licensed to carry a weapon ever again. That is what really got him into trouble. Let this be a lesson to people who want to carry weapons. Guns can not only harm others but also the person carrying.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)She did see everything.
The male one is not the only one to see something and he could be saying that to help Zimmerman. While this woman actually had the 911 on the phone with her giving the blow by blow from beginning to end. She even told him she would put the phone up to the window so he could hear what's going on.
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/27/kth-trayvon-martin-witness-steps-forward/
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/video-eyewitness-to-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-speaks-out/
obamanut2012
(29,337 posts)And she has said publicly it was Trayvon who was screaming, and the SPD kept correcting her.
Zimmerman didn't have a broken nose nor was his head smashed against concrete nor was he almost smothered.
"Mr. Liberal." Is that like Mack the Knife?
vaberella
(24,634 posts)I believe that is Taaffe who is also the man caught in several lies since then. And has made various racialized remarks on national television. Additionally the voice analysis is not inconclusive-- both stated that it was not Zimmerman definitely. Although they can't say it's Trayvon, because they have nothing to sample his voice. But considering the confrontation consisted of two people and one of them is alive and he's the one ruled out...I would clearly assume it's Trayvon.
mainer
(12,548 posts)That was some ventriloquist's trick, being able to scream!
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)How can we know the truth of what really happened until they come out with their next version?
vaberella
(24,634 posts)You can clearly hear screams. Scream behind your hands, even half behind your hands or even have another person do it---while your both outside and someone else is in their living room behind glass and/or mortar...tell me how loud you have to be... hear it and then compare that to the screams you hear on the 911 tapes.
Your scenario is very unlikely to be the case. Further more, the screams don't sound muffled. I actually thought when I heard the screams the woman had her television on...that's how loud they were. You really need to hear the tapes.
What your suggesting gives no time really and makes no sense since Zimmerman's father claimed the boy was struggling with Zimmerman for the gun. The screams go from super loud before the gunshot to nil after the gunshot.
Iggo
(49,904 posts)I'm gonna go with "Nice try" also.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)I think your tinfoil hat is too tight.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Could have been a momentary shadow, camera lens defect, or software glitch. All of which would explain no bandage. Claiming there WAS a real wound ignores the simple fact that if there was a wound, it would have been bandaged. Care to address the lack of bandage, or are you going to keep parrotting the Zimmerman camps flimsy claims?
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)but in the video there's a cop that looks at the back of his head too, like he's looking at the wound.
You make a good point about a bandage though. You woudl think the medic would have put something on there. But maybe they wouldn't if they didn't think it was very bad. Maybe they just cleaned it.
We knwo there was an argument though, a struggle with the eyewitness saying Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman, so it wouldn't surprise me if there are injuries like that.
Im going to call it a night though, its late.
EOTE
(13,409 posts)So you take everything that this "witness" claims who has been defending Zimmerman from the get go and ignore everything that the witness who was actually THERE and on the phone with 911 at the time of the killing? Amazing that you buy every single story that this ass and his racist friends say, even as their story changes from day to day. Yet you completely dismiss claims which have been made from the very start and have never strayed. And you buy in to the ridiculous notion that Zimmerman was attacked by a single freaking frame which at most shows a scar (hint, scars don't form in a couple hours) and at worst is just a shadow. I can't tell you how sick it makes me that there are DUers who will defend Zimmerman to the death when so much evidence is readily available. There are some here who just really love their guns or really hate any sense of rationality. It's sick.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)no tin-foil hat needed.
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)I don't think the prosecutor would have chosen that instead of manslaughter or even involuntary manslaughter is there wasn't some damning evidence against him.
MagickMuffin
(18,315 posts)Wasn't there a story about the brothers not speaking for several years? Maybe they hate each other and this is payback It wouldn't surprise me as this family seems dysfunctional to say the least.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)My guess is hes just as big a loser as GZ, and is trying to get his 15 minutes of "fame".
JI7
(93,546 posts)fuck this family.
Piers shouldn't have these people on if he feels bad for calling them out on their lies.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)I agree with you totally about not calling him out on his lies. That's just flat out wrong.
Canuckistanian
(42,290 posts)That's all this is. It doesn't even need to be remotely true to be helpful in this case.
Cass
(2,600 posts)That is a red flag that Zimmerman's story is not credible. Last week we were told his head was being slammed repeatedly into the concrete, now we are told he was on the verge of passing out because his nose/mouth was covered. Wouldn't that detail have been significant enough for his brother to mention earlier?
I wonder when Zimmerman's lawyer is going to tell these people to quit blabbing all over TV.
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)because once they get on the stand, the prosecution is going to have a field day with all the inconsistent statements they've been making.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)So its unlikely any of them would be called as witnesses. Thus the flinging of shit against the wall.
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)and if you take the sum total of what they've claimed their story reads like a fantasy.
There is a DUzy up thread which points this out perfectly.
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)If they testify on his behalf (& it seems likely some of these yahoos could) that opens the door for them to be asked about their prior statements & where they got the information. If their source is Zimmerman, then it looks bad for him. If they say they made it all up, then their own credibility goes down the toilet.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)They didnt witness the incident. They could testify if GZ made incrminating statements or actions in their pressence, but I doubt that happened. Most likely, they havent even been in contact with GZ, their stories were fed to them by Zimmdad. Thats complete hearsay, and is inadmissable. That is why the Zimmcamp is putting on this dog and pony show. They know this BS aint going to fly in court, so theyre spreading it via media to muddy the waters.
WolverineDG
(22,298 posts)And if any of them testify in any capacity, they can be impeached with their statements, regardless of the source.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)So credibility wont be an issue, unless the jury has heard the bs prior to trial. Judge will instruct them to decide based solely on evidence thats presented in court, not anything theyve heard, seen, or read outside court. Of course, there may be a juror or two who ignore judges directions. Thats why Zimmdad is floating all the scenerios out there. Hopes to pollute the jury with Zimmys account without Zimmy having to take the stand. And theres zero possibility of Zimmys attorney letting him take the stand. Prosecutor would shred him on cross examination.