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linuxman

(2,337 posts)
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:24 PM Sep 2014

Pot correlated with making teens less likely to graduate college/HS, more likely to kill selves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/09/study-teens-who-smoke-weed-daily-are-60-less-likely-to-complete-high-school-than-those-who-never-use/?tid=rssfeed

Teenagers who smoke marijuana daily are over 60 percent less likely to complete high school than those who never use. They're also 60 percent less likely to graduate college and seven times more likely to attempt suicide. Those are the startling conclusions of a new study of adolescent cannabis use out today in The Lancet Psychiatry, a British journal of health research.
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Pot correlated with making teens less likely to graduate college/HS, more likely to kill selves. (Original Post) linuxman Sep 2014 OP
all the pot smokers I knew graduated high school nt msongs Sep 2014 #1
Cool. linuxman Sep 2014 #6
a couple I hung out with did...some weren't very bright to begin with snooper2 Sep 2014 #16
I don't know from all, but Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #54
Are the 60% who don't complete HS the Same 60% who don't graduate from College? Vincardog Sep 2014 #2
"This study was brought to you by the good folks at Anheiser Busch and Philip Morris" LordGlenconner Sep 2014 #3
Yep Go Vols Sep 2014 #48
No doubt! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2014 #53
I know an awful lot of septuagenarian potheads with PhDs...so I have to wonder MADem Sep 2014 #4
As a PhD who--uh--knows some users in my peer group--ahem-- Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #28
What it is!!! nt MADem Sep 2014 #33
What it ever was. Tsiyu Sep 2014 #39
I dont know what septuagenarian means... GummyBearz Sep 2014 #47
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!! MADem Sep 2014 #49
Correlation/causation, etc PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #5
Well.. linuxman Sep 2014 #7
I'd like to know the outcome of teens who drink alcohol daily. PeaceNikki Sep 2014 #11
I'm guessing that if they feel the need to get high every day... GoCubsGo Sep 2014 #8
I'd agree with that. linuxman Sep 2014 #14
most young addicts (teens) are dual-diagnosis patients elehhhhna Sep 2014 #44
Yup. Also... GoCubsGo Sep 2014 #46
Yep! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2014 #55
Does this mean that dumb kids smoke more pot? immoderate Sep 2014 #9
People who decide to engage in an illegal activity more likely to have other problems jberryhill Sep 2014 #10
Legalize it s it can be controlled. obxhead Sep 2014 #12
there have been reports saying that justabob Sep 2014 #19
I speak from personal experience. obxhead Sep 2014 #22
I know, same here justabob Sep 2014 #23
I smoked regularly for a couple of decades hifiguy Sep 2014 #13
But which cases the other? Fearless Sep 2014 #15
This study was from Australia and New Zealand, but I imagine some of the correlations are similar... hunter Sep 2014 #17
"If you get caught with drugs, you're not able to go to college" - damage by design. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #35
"We're going to chop your foot off for stepping out of line." Tsiyu Sep 2014 #40
So being a depressed loser makes you more likely to smoke dope. Huh. nt bemildred Sep 2014 #18
Well no shit, anything in excess is bad for you Ex Lurker Sep 2014 #20
I always felt tired and sad and anxious Quantess Sep 2014 #21
That's how I feel *before* I smoke. MindPilot Sep 2014 #41
i'm guessing it's probably the other way around, those less likely to graduate or have suicidal JI7 Sep 2014 #24
exactly- they were self medicating which led them to use it in the first place J_J_ Sep 2014 #26
I've never* met a true ADHD type who didn't like pot. Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #30
Hi, allow me to introduce myself and Spouse. politicat Sep 2014 #42
coders/techies are a bunch of potheads J_J_ Sep 2014 #25
So kids who are prone to contemplate suicide are 60% more likely to try pot? arcane1 Sep 2014 #27
As a pro-pot person, I DO think there should be an age for it Doctor_J Sep 2014 #29
And I agree. Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #31
a HS teen who smokes pot everyday has a problem. La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #32
I have been smoking since the end of my college days. zappaman Sep 2014 #34
There are studies out that talk about damage to the brain Ruby the Liberal Sep 2014 #36
Don't Fear the Reefer! Rex Sep 2014 #37
If a kid is drinking daily, then I'm sure there's a similar problem... joeybee12 Sep 2014 #38
Well, it's hard to complete high school or attend college when you're in prison for a few years. krispos42 Sep 2014 #43
How about "Suicidal dropouts also smoke a lot of pot"? NightWatcher Sep 2014 #45
Going to High School is correlated to a lot of negative outcomes. Trillo Sep 2014 #50
Funny! I graduated college with a 3.8 average and nearly a 4.0 in post graduate work. RKP5637 Sep 2014 #51
lol tazkcmo Sep 2014 #52
i'd bet you could find a far stronger correlation for alcohol rather than pot. unblock Sep 2014 #56
Pot linked to cunnilingus. Never buy the stuff. Eleanors38 Sep 2014 #57
 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
16. a couple I hung out with did...some weren't very bright to begin with
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:38 PM
Sep 2014

I'm the exception of course

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
54. I don't know from all, but
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:47 PM
Sep 2014

of the ones I knew who went to my high school, I think they all went on to get doctorates. YMMV.

Of course, I also don't think I knew anyone who actually 'smoked daily'. That sounds like an expensive habit.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
4. I know an awful lot of septuagenarian potheads with PhDs...so I have to wonder
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:29 PM
Sep 2014

if these "kids" were unusually persistent or maybe the study is a bit ... sketchy?

They did nail this bit down--though it wasn't legal back in the sixties, either, was it?

In other words, many of the problems associated with teen cannabis use are likely a function of the drug's illegal status.

 

GummyBearz

(2,931 posts)
47. I dont know what septuagenarian means...
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:13 PM
Sep 2014

But I do know a few people who were driven to being pot heads during their phds. and a few who were driven to drinking excessively (i'm one of those)... I say phds should be outlawed! :p

GoCubsGo

(32,033 posts)
8. I'm guessing that if they feel the need to get high every day...
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:34 PM
Sep 2014

...that they have other more serious problems beyond the pot smoking. And, that's what's keeping them from graduating or going onto college, not the pot smoking.

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
14. I'd agree with that.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:38 PM
Sep 2014

I'd get shithouse drunk every once in a great while in college. It's all about moderation though. If I did that every weekend, I wouldn't have graduated Summa Cum Laude. I knew some folks that smoked every so often. I can't remember the names of the drunks and potheads I shared dorms with, as most were gone by the first Christmas.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
44. most young addicts (teens) are dual-diagnosis patients
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:02 PM
Sep 2014

and the drinkers are generally way more fucked than the pot-only people

GoCubsGo

(32,033 posts)
46. Yup. Also...
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:12 PM
Sep 2014

They could be getting high for other reasons, as well, such as trying to escape family problems, bullying, depression or other psychological issues... Those are often the reasons people start drinking heavily, or taking other drugs, too.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
10. People who decide to engage in an illegal activity more likely to have other problems
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:36 PM
Sep 2014

What these kinds of reports fail to take into account is that smoking pot is an activity which is illegal in the first place.

There is no question that the "population of people who smoke pot" is inclusive of the "population of people willing to engage in an illegal activity".

That has nothing, actually, to do with what is the activity in question.

In other words, let's say that you have a group of people in which the incidence of some form of social pathology is 10%.

You then say, "Okay, I want everyone who has jaywalked in the last month to sit on the left of the room, and everyone who has not to sit on the right of the room."

It is guaranteed that among the groups now sitting on the left of the room, the incidence of whatever social pathology you want to name, is now going to be significantly greater than 10%.

Why? Because jaywalking is illegal. No, you are not Charles Manson if you jaywalk, but the "group of people who jaywalk" is going to more likely include the raging sociopaths than not.

It's an unsurprising result.

 

obxhead

(8,434 posts)
12. Legalize it s it can be controlled.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:37 PM
Sep 2014

A large majority of HS kids would also tell you its much easier to get an ounce than it is a six pack.

Legalization will help keep it out of HS.

justabob

(3,069 posts)
19. there have been reports saying that
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:41 PM
Sep 2014

Liquor/beer and cigarettes are a whole lot harder to get than street drugs and prescription meds. I do not have a link handy, but it's been posted here more than once.

 

obxhead

(8,434 posts)
22. I speak from personal experience.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:49 PM
Sep 2014

Its been a long time since HS, but I understand its even easier to find drugs now than it was 20 years ago there.

justabob

(3,069 posts)
23. I know, same here
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:58 PM
Sep 2014

My son is now a senior at the same school I attended, and from what he says, not much has changed since the 80s. LOL. Lots of coke, X, and the rest. (It is a school in a wealthy neighborhood) The only change from then and now is the prescription meds and the legal pseudo shit people buy on line. No handy link for that info either.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
13. I smoked regularly for a couple of decades
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:37 PM
Sep 2014

and during that time decided to go to college even though I dropped out of high school, graduated from college with every honor I could win and made it all the way through an Ivy League law school, where I did very nicely. I did not smoke on school nights in college or law school, though, but I fired up every Friday and Saturday night.

hunter

(38,206 posts)
17. This study was from Australia and New Zealand, but I imagine some of the correlations are similar...
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:39 PM
Sep 2014
"Moreover, Palamar's research shows that because of marijuana's legal status, teen cannabis users are much more likely to get into trouble with the police than teen alcohol users. And in many cases, if you have a drug conviction on your record, you become ineligible for college aid. "If you get caught with drugs, you're not able to go to college," he told me."


I don't think kids should be drinking or using cannabis, but any difference in outcomes between the two are almost certainly related to legal and social complications.
 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
35. "If you get caught with drugs, you're not able to go to college" - damage by design.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:20 PM
Sep 2014

So the fucking drug warriors can then point to the stats they have created and say "see! we TOLD you!".

Fuck all of them. Legalize it retroactively to 1972. Everyone damaged by Nixon's and Carter's and Reagan's and Bush's and Clinton's and Bush's and Obama's war on drugs should be compensated.

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
40. "We're going to chop your foot off for stepping out of line."
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 05:31 PM
Sep 2014

"And then we'll make up a study that says your stepping out of line is the reason you'll never walk right again."

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
21. I always felt tired and sad and anxious
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:48 PM
Sep 2014

after the initial rush. I can see that it can cause depression in some people. I can't stand weed.

JI7

(89,086 posts)
24. i'm guessing it's probably the other way around, those less likely to graduate or have suicidal
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 03:59 PM
Sep 2014

thoughts may be more likely to use marijuana or other drugs .

it's other things going on in their life which is making them not do well . those are the things we need to look for.

whether it's health related such as depression, abuse, their environment etc.

 

J_J_

(1,213 posts)
26. exactly- they were self medicating which led them to use it in the first place
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:09 PM
Sep 2014

it is much safer than most antidepressants on the market.

Alcohol is a depressant.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
30. I've never* met a true ADHD type who didn't like pot.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:12 PM
Sep 2014

And who didn't do better with than without the means of self-medication.

*OK, seldom.

politicat

(9,808 posts)
42. Hi, allow me to introduce myself and Spouse.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:35 PM
Sep 2014

Both ADD (spouse is ADD, passive variant; I'm ADD, cyclical between passive and active).

I'm deathly allergic to the plant -- got exposed in childhood, immune system goes to Defcon gazillion when I touch hemp fabric, paper, oil. Inhaling it would probably put me into immediate anaphylaxis. I have an epi-pen now to, with luck, give me 15 minutes to get to an ER for IV antihistamines and steroids. (Thank you, CO legalization. I couldn't get a pen before legalization because the logic ran that since it was illegal, I would never encounter it. This is why I am 100% pro-legalization.) Even if I wanted to play Russian roulette, I'm pretty sure my issue is not with my cannabinoid receptors, but with my norepinephrine or acetylcholine receptors.

Spouse had parents who enjoyed. Spouse never partook on zir own, but one of the parents enjoyed going out and hot boxing with spouse in car, so spouse probably got plenty. Also, Spouse's elder sib and sib's spouse. And Spouse's friends. Spouse's exposures left zir paranoid, angry, frustrated and irritable, which tracks to perfectly functional cannabinoid receptors getting overloaded.

Not that cannabinoid receptors tracks well to ADD well anyway. They're mood and memory regulators (with a dose of gut regulation and pain perception, but lower on the pole than ghrelin, leptin and subP, respectively); ADD is arousal, cognitive control, concentration, learning and proprioception (noradrenaline, acetylcholine, histamine). Cannabinoids might short circuit GABA temporarily, but so do a lot of things.

ADD has a lot of moving parts, most of which are invisible. I'm perfectly pleased if some people find pot works for them, but don't assume it's a panacea. There's no such thing.

My bet, as a professional, is that the pot in the above study is the result of whatever internal or external factors are driving the despair, apathy and anhedonia. It's self-medication, not causative.

 

J_J_

(1,213 posts)
25. coders/techies are a bunch of potheads
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:08 PM
Sep 2014

all of this wonderful technology people use to complain about potheads with, was created by potheads.

It inspires creativity and is motivating- quite the opposite of alcohol

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
27. So kids who are prone to contemplate suicide are 60% more likely to try pot?
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:10 PM
Sep 2014

Fun With Correlations!

I'm sure the kids who drink alcohol do great!

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
31. And I agree.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:14 PM
Sep 2014

That's an argument for legalization & control. It's harder for a kid to get alcohol than pot in most places.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
32. a HS teen who smokes pot everyday has a problem.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:15 PM
Sep 2014

so yes, i believe these stats are likely true. my guess is pot is not the mediating variable, just an outcome variable for what the actual problem is

zappaman

(20,603 posts)
34. I have been smoking since the end of my college days.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 04:18 PM
Sep 2014

I don't think anyone should be smoking it before the age of 18 at least.
And most of the kids I knew who smoked and dropped out really were probably gonna drop out anyway.

Ruby the Liberal

(26,211 posts)
36. There are studies out that talk about damage to the brain
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 05:16 PM
Sep 2014

The brain doesn't fully "form" (for lack of a better word) until age 24-25.

Why I am for full legalization, but 21 and over only. I am swayed by the "old enough to die for your country" argument of 18 and up, but the potential damage simply isn't worth opening that floodgate.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
38. If a kid is drinking daily, then I'm sure there's a similar problem...
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 05:18 PM
Sep 2014

Pot should be legal, but if kids are smoking daily, then I assume there is no adequate parental supervision.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
43. Well, it's hard to complete high school or attend college when you're in prison for a few years.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 06:50 PM
Sep 2014

And maybe a prison record and resulting lack of education keeps people from moving ahead in life, resulting in depression and suicide attempts.

NightWatcher

(39,343 posts)
45. How about "Suicidal dropouts also smoke a lot of pot"?
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:04 PM
Sep 2014

I think this is more correlation than causation.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
50. Going to High School is correlated to a lot of negative outcomes.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:41 PM
Sep 2014
http://www.academia.edu/5045803/Associations_among_bullying_cyberbullying_and_suicide_in_high_school_students

No drugs are necessary in that population for suicide to occur, all it takes is other mean kids. Don't be gay! Suicide rate goes way up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_suicide_in_the_United_States

http://learninfreedom.org/suicide.html
The maximum age of compulsory school attendance is now lower in Japan than in the United States. (The compulsory school attendance age range was longer in Japan than in the United States during the prewar years, the years when the Japanese youth suicide rate was higher than that in the United States.)


It appears from looking at all of this briefly, that when you force young people to go to school, a ripple of negative psychological effects occurs.

Edited to add: It's probably a source of some intrigue that a system which rewards a very small percentage of the compulsory school population with great academic achievement in their later years, that those folks would have difficulty understanding that others kill themselves in the same pressure cooker system. I'm wondering if we're seeing "A tyranny of the minority."

RKP5637

(66,959 posts)
51. Funny! I graduated college with a 3.8 average and nearly a 4.0 in post graduate work.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:45 PM
Sep 2014

... guess they missed me in the study! Suicide ... no wonder, the crap many teens go through today.
PS: ... but I did not smoke everyday. Weekends, yes.


tazkcmo

(7,260 posts)
52. lol
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:45 PM
Sep 2014

I guess they grow out of it. Been smoking pot since I was 11, 51 now and managed to graduate HS and not be dead by my own hand. Oh, and not get fat from all the Cheeto's and doughnuts!

unblock

(51,798 posts)
56. i'd bet you could find a far stronger correlation for alcohol rather than pot.
Wed Sep 10, 2014, 07:55 PM
Sep 2014

but, there's no war on booze, so by all means, let's focus on pot instead.

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