I realize this is not a popular sentiment, but I don't give a damn

[Algernon Moncrieff]

Yep, ISIS is a bunch of fanatical, terrorist S.O.B.s. You get no argument from me. However, when our choices have become allying ourselves with intolerant monarchies who practice slavery and concubinage; military dictatorships who've imprisoned and killed their opposition; and theocracies, then I opt to choose "none of the above." Let them figure it out for themselves. Meanwhile, let's build our renewable energy infrastructure and stop buying imported petroleum.

[Autumn]

1. I agree with you and I don't give a damn if it is or isn't a popular sentiment

Rec.

[golfguru]

33. We are over-reacting to ISIS

which is exactly what they want.

Just think one terrorist, only one single terrorist, tried to explode a small bomb hidden in his shoe. The bomb was such a bad design, the terrorist failed to light it after repeated attempts on the airplane.

So what does America do? They force every passenger on every plane take their shoes off! If you add up all the hours spent doing this, the cost is ginormous.

After that they found a terrorist with a small bomb in his underwear. Thank heavens we are not asked to remove our underwear before boarding every flight. They just zap us with x-rays for a full body scan.

[Nobel_Twaddle_III]

42. remove underwear before boarding every flight, nope I nolonger have "the body" for that

[GoneOffShore]

89. You do realize that you're not obliged to go through the scanner?

You will get a 'pat down', hopefully in public, and make comments while it's being done.

And interestingly enough, many of the TSA folks now know that their jobs are to make people feel that 'something is being done' and is , essentially, worthless.

[truedelphi]

139. But at least Homeland Securities Congressional funding is such that

Every other county in the USA now has themselves a purty smart-looking $ 370,000 MRAP bearcat, impervious to IED explosions. An item that is not all that deployable, and that tears up our city streets here in Lake County California USA when it is used to accompany SWAT teams who are coming to our homes to arrest us for growing Marijuana plants outside.


Just to help out us citizens.

[phylny]

152. I choose the pat-down, and I the last time I said, so others could

hear, "I'm undergoing radiation after my breast cancer surgery, so I can't go through the scanner, and be gentle when you pat me down, because I have scars that hurt.

TSA agent looked ashamed, "Ma'am, you don't have to tell us why you can't go through the scanner."

Sure, I do. Because this country should be ashamed of itself.

[PatSeg]

117. We've been over-reacting

since 2001, something I remember foreseeing on 9/11 - there are people who will use fear to inhibit our freedom and serve their political agenda. Fear sells and it is so easy.

When I see news reports about ISIS, I get this horrible sense of deja vu, and wonder if this is the way the world is going to be for generations. It is so Orwellian and people's reactions are scarier to me than ISIS.

[1dogleft]

140. your right

the government over reacts...all the time over everything. It just what they do. Always has and most likely always will

[KoKo]

156. Absolutely....and we will give up more freedoms as this goes forward...

although we have so few left one wonders what draconian methods will be further employed to keep the "FEAR FACTOR" going.

[golfguru]

157. The ONLY way terrorists defeat America is....

to destroy our economy. When we spend countless hours doing unproductive things we get dragged down. China is growing while we are stagnant. And China is doing without firing a single bullet. We don't even need oil from Middle-east. Most of that oil now goes to Asia.

[Legalequilibrium78]

39. There is something fundamentally wrong with some people

Last edited Thu Sep 11, 2014, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Here on D.U. who firmly believes that by simply saying it ain't so the problem of ISIS won't reach the shore of the U.S. and what was that again? Stop buying petroleum? You have no clue how damaging that would be and the upheaval it would cause not only the U.S. but the entire world? Talk about living in some fantasy land.

I am glad this opinion is in the minority and has not permeated most Americans yet. I hope it will remain that way now and in the foreseeable future. What some of you advocate is surrendering the global leadership, the United States achieved post WWII. The wealth and influence of the United States in the world did not simply appear out of thin air, or from disengagement.

[greiner3]

51. "What some of you advocate is surrendering the global leadership..."

And this so called global leadership is bankrupting us, causing our leaders to take the offensive in every little squabble and setting us up for 'king of the mountain', the kids game where one kid is 'it' and everybody else rushes at the poor sap so as to overthrow the 'king' which always ends up with the king becoming defeated.

This is why the UN was set up, the world's police, not one nation, whether it be us, Russia, China or some despots who gain their power through their own 'shock and awe'.

"The wealth and influence of the United States in the world did not simply appear out of thin air, or from disengagement."

No, our wealth and influence is the end product of our geological position; thousands of miles from most everything else in the world.

Egypt was in the same predicament in their thousands of years of rule.

They were surrounded by deserts and while they did lose some wars with 'Nubians', for most of 3,000 years held sway over modern day Egypt because of this fact.

But now with any point on the globe only part of a day away, our isolation will become less and less and there will be more attacks upon our 'homeland' and nothing can stop them.

BTW, our 'global leadership' came with such a high price; nuclear arms race (Cold War), Korea, Vietnam, US backed South and Central American dictators propped up by the CIA, Grenada, Afghanistan and Iraq and now Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria and Russia and ????????

Sounds as though you invest heavily in defense stocks whose only profits come from wars; what a country!

[DeadLetterOffice]

73. Well said.

I for one have no interest in the U.S. being a 'global leader,' especially when we can't even seem to get our domestic issues sorted out. Screw that -- we do not need to be the world's police. Or the world's military. Or the world's diplomats for that matter, although I'm less upset about that since it's a less costly and deadly intervention strategy.

[Legalequilibrium78]

122. To have an effective diplomatic leverage

It must be supported with a strong and robust military capability, as well as a strong and vibrant economy. One can't simply function adequately without the support from the other component of an effective National Strategy.

[Erose999]

127. If we keep up these stupid neocon wars, the "strong and vibrant economy" is going to go down the

shitter. It almost did in 2008. Meanwhile oil prices keep going up. Its time to tell oil and other fossil fuels to go to hell whenever possible.

[Legalequilibrium78]

141. Your prescription on how to weed ourselves

From fossil fuels is non-existent. Telling oil producing countries "to go to hell" is so gonna be conducive to the goals you outline. I understand that maybe to you the continous use of oil is an abhomination and an affront to the environment, but until there is a better alternative than fossil fuels, it will remain an integral part of our lives now, and for years to come.

[They_Live]

146. So you propose doing nothing?

Yeah. don't try to solve any problems. You're outnumbered and will fail. right?

[DeadLetterOffice]

132. If in fact diplomatic credibility...

... is dependent on "a strong and robust military capability" -- that doesn't mean we have to USE the capability every damn chance we get, now does it?

[Dustlawyer]

116. Screw Global Leadership! Our country is failing its citizens of their most basic needs, yet we go

chasing 10,000 blood thirsty fanatics half a world away so that the MIC can continue to feed at the trough! Wall Street wants their interests protected and expanded. We are being sold bull shit again when not once has our meddling worked out.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

136. Speaking of the UN, why aren't members following this?

http://www.un.org/en/events/humanrightsday/udhr60/declaration.shtml

[2banon]

149. oh, that old thing, kind of like our constitution, someone once said

it's just a worthless piece of paper. and Scalia said our constitution was DEAD DEAD DEAd.. so there ya have it.

[Strat54]

65. There is something fundementally wrong with someone

who falls for the same war mongering bullshit twice!! Are you serious??? You don't see this is the exact same way they herded us into Iraq. The media doesn't even frame the question as "Should we act?" It is all "How should we act?" "When should we act?" "Why has it taken so long to act?"

Going to war in the middleeast is a forgone conclusion. The media is just lubricating the public to follow along.

Did it take you 6 or 7 times of putting your hand on a hot stove before you realized you got burned every time?

[Legalequilibrium78]

119. No, I just happen to live in the real world

Where the reality is, that there are people in the world, such as the blood thirsty people of ISIS which is a gathering threat against America. We can't simply be too intellectually rigid that we can't or wont recognize the dangers ISIS/ISIL poses against America.

[L0oniX]

148. Chicken Little:Isis moved in next door. Breaking:Mr Little was killed today by texting teen driver.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

151. Simply put the ISIS is not a threat to the US

With a poor thought out response from the US we could hurt ourselves more than the ISIS.
The reason were dealing with this now is the result of all the mistakes we made with invading Iraq in the first place.
We were lied to then and were being lied to now.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

153. Simply put the ISIS is not a threat to the US.

With a poor thought out response from the US we could hurt ourselves more than the ISIS could.
The reason were dealing with this now is the result of all the mistakes we made with invading Iraq in the first place.
We were lied to then and were being lied to now.

[rhett o rick]

84. And some here continue to fail to learn from history. You are promoting the same conservative

neocons crap that Bush pushed. We are strong, we must anoint ourselves to be the lone protector of goodness over badness. Well, that sounds so wonderful I had to stand up when I wrote it. While that sounds noble, it has a few problems that you don't address. While you are off spending trillions on war, Americans are dying in poverty. But conservatives don't care as long as the war profits are up. Whose America are we protecting? Ask someone standing in a soup line if they fear terrorists.

I will admit that the dream is a nice dream, where we can successfully decide who is bad and who is good and kill only the bad. Of course conservatives believe they have this power, but they have a terrible track record. We have set up terrible dictators to stamp out the insurgent terrorists, and some times we have helped the insurgents against terrible dictators. And in each case the conservatives will tell you that we are doing the honorable thing. These conservatives are blind to the fact that they are being manipulated by the neocons, the MIC, and their Corp-Media.

It would be cool if we could determine the good guys from the bad, but most of the time it's impossible. And most of the time our corp-controlled govment isn't trying. They are basing their decisions on politics and/or economics.

[Autumn]

87. There is something fundamentally wrong with some people who firmly

believe that it's a fine thing for what is left of the wealth and influence of the United States in the world to simply disappear down the black gaping jaws of war on countries that have never attacked the United States.

I hope you do more than simply support the beginnings of this "war" effort. Please sign up in any branch of the military as soon as possible.

Now do have a nice day and run along now because I refuse to piss my panties because of a some fucking boogy men in a foreign country that were given weapons that we left behind and are attempting to step into the void that Bush and Cheney created. Time for those leaders in the middle east states to step up and take care of their own business.

[Legalequilibrium78]

94. Did you serve on any capacity

Last edited Thu Sep 11, 2014, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

With the U.S. Armed forces? I am more than happy and willing to serve on the U.S. military at any capacity, if it comes to that point. The U.S. military is a professional force/organization and it is the best in the world. So it'll be a tremendous opportunity for a lot of people to join and be able to contribute for the defense of this great republic.

Just spare me the hand wringing, the usual laundry lists of complaints and charges against the U.S. military. Bottom line ISIS/ISIL must be dealt with and will be dealt with militarily and diplomatically. You and your ilk ought to be happy that there are many people in the U.S. military who are more than willing to serve in order to protect your indignant self-righteous posturing.

[Autumn]

96. My serving or not is irrelevant. I encourage you to take advantage of this tremendous opportunity

and go off and see the world and do what you enjoy. Do have a nice day even though you are one rude ..........I won't respond to you again.

[cleanhippie]

110. "I will serve...if it comes to that"

As a 21 year Navy veteran, I say this: put up or shut up.

Don't wait until " it comes to that", go sign up right now. It already HAS "come to that". If you support more military action, then go be a part of it. Saying "I will if it comes to it" is bullshit, IMO. All talk, no action.

[hueymahl]

112. Well said

"I will serve if it comes to it" is classic chicken-hawk rhetoric.

[Legalequilibrium78]

120. With all due respect to your service sir/maam

My strong opinion on matters of national security and on wanting kinetic action against the threat pose by ISIS, should not just be dismissed or be labelled so callously as being a "naive warmonger." Just because I happen to have a strongly held views that most of you condmen, it does not mean I have to kowtow to your recipe and plan of just absolutely doing nothing, other than busy blaming America, the capitalist system, and the corporations.

I happen to believe in the efficacy of using kinetic force against the threat of ISIS and I do not subscribe to the notion and false narrative that every shit in the world was or is caused by the United States. The country is not perfect by any stretch of imagination, I'll be the first to admit that, but I'll be damn if I think that America is the cause of most/ all evil in the world. I believe in this country of mine, imperfect as it is.

[cleanhippie]

159. Word salad nonsense.

YOU asked the question "Did you serve?" then went on to beat the war drums and spew classic chicken-hawk trope "I will serve if it comes to that."

If MORE war is what you think will solve this problem, then put your rhetoric aside, go enlist, and prove us all wrong.

But we both know you are NEVER going to serve in the military.

[CrispyQ]

98. You are right that our wealth did not appear out of thin air or from disengagement.

A Brief History of U.S. Interventions:
1945 to the Present

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

by William Blum
Z magazine , June 1999


The engine of American foreign policy has been fueled not by a devotion to any kind of morality, but rather by the necessity to serve other imperatives, which can be summarized as follows:

* making the world safe for American corporations;

* enhancing the financial statements of defense contractors at home who have contributed generously to members of congress;

* preventing the rise of any society that might serve as a successful example of an alternative to the capitalist model;

* extending political and economic hegemony over as wide an area as possible, as befits a "great power."

This in the name of fighting a supposed moral crusade against what cold warriors convinced themselves, and the American people, was the existence of an evil International Communist Conspiracy, which in fact never existed, evil or not.

The United States carried out extremely serious interventions into more than 70 nations in this period.

Much more at link: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html


We moved from fighting evil communism to fighting evil fundamentalism all the while ignoring our own evil drone program. What new version of ISIS are we creating now, that we will have to fight in the future?

[Legalequilibrium78]

118. For the love of God!! have you gone mad?

Last edited Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Our drone programs have created ISIS? Lol you are one hillarious individual. I know you belong to the -blame America first, and it's always the evil America crowd. Even if what you wrote resonates strongly with some people here on D.U. it does not mean what you wrote have some semblance of truth.

[CrispyQ]

135. You sound like Sarah Palin with your word salad.

I do not think what you wrote means what you think it means.

[CrispyQ]

158. I see you edited your word salad. Too much crunchy stuff?

You could still use a book on grammar.

I think you made a wrong turn & want this site: http://www.discussionist.com/

[Legalequilibrium78]

160. Lol why would I go there?

Last edited Sat Sep 13, 2014, 05:04 AM - Edit history (2)

Are you trying to intimidate/shame me with your superiority on grammar? So that what I would cease on having a discussion and debate with fellow D.U. members? I am more than fine being here, it seems to me you do not particularly like my opinion, which is more than fine. Instead of trying to make fun of my grammar, why don't you refute or debate the points I raised and will continue to raise on varying topics.

Most especially when it comes to U.S. national security, I get that most of D.U. members are left of center in terms of political ideology, and it also does not mean that I have to mirror my informed opinions with the likes of you. Having said that, I am more than keenly aware that I make a lot of grammatical errors-frankly I was not aware that one must have a flawless grammar in order for one to debate and or discuss the myriad of issues that affects all of us.

If you're come back is just going to be another empty lame ass joke, design to make yourself feel smug and superior with your awesome grammar skills, don't bother sir/maam. As it would not do you any good, am here to stay and will remain engage now and in the foreseeable future.

[CrispyQ]

161. My apologies for the grammar snark.

It was uncalled for.

As for debate, I think William Blum is spot on. You should read the entire article before you dismiss him. Maybe groups like ISIS would not be so prolific, if we had not beat the hornet's nest all over the world, for almost a century now.

[abelenkpe]

123. We get around 16 percent of our oil from the middle east

and it is long past time for us to concentrate on building renewable energy infrastructure here in our own country to make us less dependent on foreign energy, protect the environment, and create much needed jobs here for US workers.

see:

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/06/big-oil-news-isnt-fracking-its-efficiency

http://www.vox.com/2014/4/21/5636522/americans-oil-imports-chart-middle-east-canada

[tazkcmo]

130. You can take "global leadership"

And put it where the sun don't shine. We have problems here, now, bigger than ISIS or ISIL or what ever the hell they call themselves. How can you lead the world when your own people are abandoning you and your billionaire supporters? This veteran just spent his last 10 bucks on Ramen noodles only to find out that once again, the VA has canceled my appointment so I get to go another indefinite period of time not working because I can't get my scoliosis, arthritis or this %$#@%@ing burning treated. "Global leadership" my ass. How about some good ol home cooking instead and take care of our own problems. Friggin' people are addicted to dropping bombs.

[L0oniX]

147. We've heard that bull shit before. We're going to kill em over there before they kill us over here.

The wealth and influence of the United States

Well ...let the wealthy take a turn at killing over there then. "influence" like when our military kills the innocent and creates the spirit of revenge?

[CanonRay]

155. Global leadership is killing this country

and strangling our democracy. Madison said no county can maintain democracy while permanently at war. We are bankrupting ourselves. We cannot and should not be the world's policeman.

[sabrina 1]

2. It may be an unpopular sentiment, but I agree with you also. We failed to end

'terror' after 13 years of war so let someone else try now, you don't give a job to those who have failed so spectacularly to do it already, do you?

Feinstein says we are in 'more danger from terror threats than ever'. So we failed, therefore we are not qualified for this job. Let someone else with some different ideas try.

[Martin Eden]

5. "failed to end" ??

More like "fostered and enabled" the spread of terrorism.

[sabrina 1]

6. True, and more of the same, bombing, killing, droning means that 13 years from now

we will be right back here again. With a new 'label' after ISIS, like AL Queda no longer has the same ability to instill the necessary FEAR into the people to get their support for this forever 'war on terror'.

[4b5f940728b232b034e4]

56. Did Feinstein really say that?

That sounds full-on neocon. I'm not doubting you. I just doubt that her statement was as strong as you're implying.

[DeadLetterOffice]

77. Here's an interview bit from December 2013:

The chairs of the congressional intelligence committees surprised CNN anchor Candy Crowley on Sunday by saying that the U.S. is "not safer" today from terror threats than it was in recent years.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.), chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, made that claim in a joint interview on CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday.

Crowley began the interview by asking a familiar question to Feinstein.

"Are we safer now than we were a year ago, two years ago?" she said.

"I don't think so," Feinstein said. "I think terror is up worldwide — the statistics indicate that. The fatalities are way up. The numbers are way up. There are new bombs — very big bombs. There are trucks being reinforced for those bombs. There are bombs that go through magnetometers. The bomb-maker is still alive. There are more groups than ever. And there is huge malevolence out there."

Surprised, Crowley turned to Rogers.

"So, congressman, I have to say, that was not the answer I expected," she said. "I expected to hear, 'Oh, we're safer.' Do you agree?"

"I absolutely agree that we're not safer today for the same very reasons," he said. "So the pressure on our intelligence services to get it right to prevent an attack are enormous. And it's getting more difficult."


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/rogers-feinstein-not-safer-terror-threats-intelligence-snowden-2013-12#ixzz3D0cuKQYf

[CrispyQ]

104. "And there is huge malevolence out there."

And the USA feeds it, with our arms and our wars and our drones.

People don't like militarized police forces in their cities and towns? That's just the chickens coming home to roost.

[Enthusiast]

70. Yes. Let's try something else.

[AikidoSoul]

124. And every time we "fail" after spending billions.... she and her hubby, who

are deeply invested in the war machine, make huge profits.

It made me physically ill and angry when I saw the news segment where Feinstein made the comment you quoted.

[dballance]

3. Actually, I think it's a pretty popular sentiment. Just no one wants to say it.

You really did hit the nail on the head. The only reason we're all over the ME is oil. We need to attain our energy independence not by drilling and fracking and mining in the US and its territories. We need to find different ways to power our nation.

Big Media aka MSM will never say it. They're owned by Big Oil and Big Coal either through advertising dollars or other corporate arrangements/deals/back-scratching/Wall Street Hedge Funds.

[Enthusiast]

72. PLUS ONE, a huge bunch!

[abelenkpe]

4. K&R

[BrotherIvan]

7. Agreed

[woo me with science]

8. It's a VERY popular sentiment.

You only think it isn't, because we live in a propaganda state.

[Enthusiast]

71. PLUS ONE, a huge bunch!

[L0oniX]

150. We will win this award again ...and again.

[NJCher]

9. too tired to comment

Just want to say I'm with you.

To do otherwise is the definition of insanity.


Cher

[mindwalker_i]

10. Mmmmmmmm

A Fuck, I Do Not Give

I'm right there with you.

[Enthusiast]

75. ...

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[RoccoR5955]

11. I concur.

I agree.
We must get the hell out of the Middle East, and let them fight their own battles.
We have to get off of the fossil fuels, and have a Manhattan Project style affair to bring renewables on line to everyone in the US.
We can stop depending on the Middle East, if we did not need their oil.
But it may not be about just that, it's more about the corporations and their interests, than it is about the interests of the US public.
If we didn't need their crap, they would have no reason to fight us.
If we didn't kill innocent people over there, than we would not breed more terrorists.
THIS is the ONLY way that we can defeat "terrorism."

[grasswire]

12. that's probably why Obama appealed to American exceptionalism...

...in the speech, telling us that American leadership would prevail; trying to place this fight in the list of those genuine generous American victories of the past.

[blkmusclmachine]

13. Yes we can (but no we won't..not with THIS Democratic Party).

[peacebird]

14. Right there with you. Totally.

[Fearless]

15. Agreed.

We do not need to get involved in a religious war.

[grahamhgreen]

45. A 1400 year old religious war.

[whereisjustice]

16. and stop sending every job that isn't nailed down to india and china

[hughee99]

46. When we tell our elected officials that we found a guy in India or China to represent

us instead of them, because they'll work for 1/5th the price, then they'll take an interest in outsourcing.

[tjl148]

50. +1

Would be fun to watch that happen. It would truly be change you could count on....

[babylonsister]

17. No. I choose to try to make the world a better place without

putting troops in danger. I think about the people starving, being raped and pillaged, on that mountain in Iraq. If we can make a shitty situation better, we should try.

Rocky road.

[GeorgeGist]

58. Boko haram?

Not so much. Why?

[babylonsister]

67. Good question.

Maybe because we've been asked for help, or maybe because we indirectly created ISIS, iow, idiot son did?

[locks]

18. McCain is so right

of course we'll win this war, whenever we figure out which war it is and who the bad guys are. Just like we won the Vietnam War, just like we won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Had to kill all those people to save them. The real winners will be the oil companies and the military contractors, as always.

We're afraid to send our best young people to Liberia to keep more young Liberians from dying of ebola but we don't mind if they die while dropping bombs on other young people.

[ann---]

25. Then let

HIM go

[hughee99]

47. Have you learned nothing from the Iraq war?

All you need to win a war is a declaration from the president that you won, and a big-ass "mission accomplished" banner.

[nomorenomore08]

62. "Just like we won the Vietnam War, just like we won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."

I think the other two posters missed the sarcasm here.

[tosh]

91. Good catch.

[Tumbulu]

19. And what about the poor girls in Nigeria?

Why is it that we only seem to fight terrorists in The Middle East?????

[7962]

30. We are helping in Nigeria, as are the French.

[former9thward]

48. Really?

What happened to the girls?

[7962]

82. We're not magicians. We cant instantly find them, its a big country.

[former9thward]

100. We never were going to find them.

It is nothing bu show.

[Barack_America]

20. I've resigned myself to the fact that...

...my young sons will never know a world without war, and that's fucking depressing.

Just have to be prepared to hightail it out of here if they reinstate the draft. They're not fighting for this bullshit..

[zeemike]

29. Well you don't have to worry about the draft.

That is gone for good, in favor of the mercenary military...and they have plenty of volunteers willing and ready to go shoot some rag heads to keep us safe...just like they see on the TV...and knowing they will be treated like heroes when they come home for doing it, and then get jobs on the police force.

In order for us to reinstate the draft we would have to re orientate our moral compass and I see no sign of that happening.

[ncjustice80]

61. Part of me says we should dispense with the volunteers

And *only* do a draft, like Israel. When you have a lot of people who don t want to go to war and kill brown people, you will have a very different military.

[bullsnarfle]

95. Yeah, me too.

But only if there are no "dick" deferments (as in cheney), and I mean for pretty much everybody. No get-out-of-draft-free cards for college, or gender, or wealth, or family connections or any of that crap. Same goes for religion --- I mean, why should the Romney's brats get a pass?

Only bona fide medical issues (and I do consider pregnancy a medical issue), or genuine hardship circumstances should be considered for draft-exempt status.

But it will NEVER happen. No way Mummy & Daddums are going to let their little Ivy League darlings become a grunt, jarhead, squid, whatever like the rest of us riffraff.

[ncjustice80]

133. Agree!

[MADem]

115. Yes, it's called an inefficient and very EXPENSIVE military, full of people who resent being

ripped away from their lives and families. What could possibly go wrong?




The Army sent out pink slips to eighty thousand uniformed personnel the other day.

Under this POTUS, we're downsizing.

[Quayblue]

36. I feel you

[mountain grammy]

21. It's a very popular sentiment, I feel that way a dozen times a day..

then I think of the innocents caught up in the violence and mass destruction. I wish it was easy to say "none of the above" and let them figure it out themselves, but there's the mass murder and genocide of millions of innocents. I believe if there is no response to this evil, it will expand until it's everywhere.
That said, I still so badly want to turn my back on the mess and let them deal with it, but one thing for sure, we do need to stop buying imported petroleum.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

134. We need to stop buying imported oil because we are an

oil exporting nation now. We are exporting gasoline now and getting ready to export LNG.

[Ccarmona]

22. What's Worse

Is the right could give a fuck about doing anything to help here, but cries to holy heaven if we don't do something there.
Fuck them all!!

[ann---]

23. I agree

I'm so disappointed that Obama has been so hawkish throughout both his presidencies. Not a good thing. Makes me feel some regret.

[zeemike]

24. The war on terror has become an industry now.

A multi billion dollar industry and it has become to big to stop.
And like all such industries it must grow every year...the stock holders demand it...and so we need more and bigger terror threats all the time.

But I did not see the presidents speech, I don't watch TV, but let me guess, he wants to increase the fight against the evil doers...don't need to be a mind reader to see that one coming.

[CrispyQ]

108. This is the best response in this thread.

The war on terror has become an industry now.

A multi billion dollar industry and it has become to big to stop.
And like all such industries it must grow every year...the stock holders demand it...and so we need more and bigger terror threats all the time.

I have no clue how we stop it. The dems are in on it too. I have no motivation to vote this year at all. Not one damned bit.

Thank you Democratic Party - you're not as bad as the other guys.

[Marrah_G]

26. I agree- all we ever do over there is fuck things up even more

[gwheezie]

27. I agree with you

I am baffled that Obama let the war hawks pressure him but at the same time I can't imagine what pres McCain or president Romney would have done

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. I feel the same way

I can't think of a U.S. intervention in my lifetime that actually improved anything, with the possible exception of Korea.

[nationalize the fed]

31. k/r

"Popular sentiment" at one time thought margarine was good for you

If Washington DC wanted energy independence it would have done something about it 40 years ago. We got nada. Zip. Zilch. It's the PetroDollar since there isn't any gold in Fort Knox anymore.

[obxhead]

32. Yep

However, tonight we have something Bush NEVER had, liberals cheering for war.

We devolve further down the spiral.

[PFunk]

34. You'll get no disagreement here. I feel the same.

I feel only an major economic and/or social downturn will get us to change course.

(It's times like this that makes it very hard to be a liberal dem)

[dumbcat]

35. I'm with you

Whether it is popular or not.

[tularetom]

37. Who says it isn't a popular sentiment?

If the liberal media would stay the fuck out of it and stop trying to scare the public to death over ISIS, I guarantee you that any politician who advocated ANY further involvement in Iraq or Syria would be thrown out on his or her ass the next time they had to face the voters.

There's a lot of patriotic fear mongering going on here, but it doesn't overrule people's opposition to any more idiotic middle eastern wars.

[MohRokTah]

38. You don't understand how fungible commodoties work, do you?

[GeorgeGist]

60. Priceless.

[oldandhappy]

40. Amen!

[MrMickeysMom]

41. It may not be popular by MSM horn blowing, but it's popular with those still using their heads...

… and not their hearts.

This telling other countries how to fight their own people with our sons and daughter's full employment as gun fodder has gone just about far enough, and the mercanaries getting paid better than GI's well… I see what the GIs come back to every day. It's a pure form of horse shit, so anyone touting the madness as having any regard for our children's way of life is also full of what came out of that horse.

Of course, when full employment is controlled like this, you know our country's gone over the edge of any democracy. This is not working, folks.

Hell, no, it's not working and your statement doesn't have to be popular because it correctly points to the problem we've all been avoiding…. how to work with others to make this world work for all of us.

Plain.

[daleanime]

43. K&R....

[LuvNewcastle]

44. Well said, Algernon.

That's exactly what I think.

[MaggieD]

49. I agree with you too

Good post

[raven mad]

52. +1,000,000

[Phlem]

53. Spot on

although the latter was a goal I think achieved recently, "renewable energy infrastructure" is something I don't see happening anytime soon. Wasn't there just a post about drilling off the east coast for "energy exploration"?

[onyourleft]

54. Thanks, Algernon, for posting this.

I agree with you and don't feel, as someone said elsewhere in this thread, that we are fundamentally flawed. I was born in 1944 during the war and war is something I've know all my life except for perhaps very short periods of time. I had hoped that by this point in my life our country would have learned lessons from all of our "great adventures." Alas, that has not happened. I'm sick of war, of killing people, of maiming people, of torturing people. I frankly don't see this as our fight. Let the problems be worked out by some other country this time.

We tried for ten years to make progress in the Middle East and failed. It is time to move on and attempt to deal with the many problems affecting our country.

[Dems to Win]

55. Saudi Arabia has an air force full of US-supplied aircraft

They could step up and support Iraq and the Yezidis and the Kurds with air strikes. ISIL is their creation, after all. If it has gotten out of control, they should be responsible for taking them out.

Agree with the OP.

[diane in sf]

57. I agree with you 100%.

[G_j]

59. agreed

[sub.theory]

63. Screw Everyone Else

Yeah, screw everyone else! They're on their own. No way I'm going to take a stand to change the world for the better. Sucks to be them, but I've got my own problems to worry about. I'm looking out for me! People need to stand on their own two feet in this world. It's not my problem.

Now back to The Kardashians and Cheez Doodles.

[meathead]

93. Nice to read a reasonable response.

The US has a responsibility to protect the interests of it's citizens at home and abroad. I didn't support the Iraq war and saw thru the WMD BS. That doesn't mean we can let the rest of the world burn while we watch from the sidelines.

[CrispyQ]

109. Okay, that made me LOL.

"...protect the interests of it's citizens at home..."



We're good at protecting 1% of the citizens interests, anyway.

Welcome to DU.

[baldguy]

64. You don't think we're responsible to help clean up the mess *WE* made?

Just wash our hands of W's (and Poppi's, and Reagan's) international disasters?

[harun]

114. A Marshal Plan is how you clean up a mess

Dropping bombs all over the Middle East just makes craters.

[ecstatic]

131. I think the US made this mess, but what can be done to fix it?

It's like a game of whack a mole: knock one dictator/terrorist down only for another to spring up in it's place. Also, if the countries closest to ISIS aren't concerned enough to take action, then why should we?

The beheadings were terrible, but what about our disgusting murder rate and gun culture right here at home? What is being done about our rogue police departments? Fixing those issues will keep a lot more Americans safe, IMO.

[99Forever]

66. Couldn't agree more.

It's called being sane and not feeding the Beasts of War.

[City Lights]

68. Well said!

[Enthusiast]

69. Kicked and recommended!

[madokie]

74. I agree up to a point

We do have responsibilities in this. if the dick and w and their horde of war mongers hadn't invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan like they did this would not be an issue today. Thats from the way I read what is going on anyway. At any rate this won't take a long time and this President isn't going to be drug into a protracted war with anyone.

[unblock]

76. but, but, but, ... a few corporations who don't pay u.s. taxes won't make as much money!

[polichick]

128. Exactly. How long will the people stand for this?

[cantbeserious]

78. Agree Completely

eom

[The Wizard]

79. How about we

end all foreign military adventures and bring our military home to defend the homeland. Any nation that has tried to impose itself on the rest of the world has had the world unite against it to prevent that from happening. The military industrial complex Eisenhower warned against is bankrupting us as has happened throughout world history. The road to empire is paved with failed republics.

[1StrongBlackMan]

81. I can appreciate that sentiment ...

and fortunately for you, you have the luxury of position to hold it with zero consequence.

[rock]

83. Yep, it is a matter of priorities

which we (the US) tends to have no clue as we listen to what the (ugh) politicians sell us!

[Algernon Moncrieff]

85. Wow!

I posted this, and went to bed. I never expected this sort of reaction. It's good to know I'm not alone.

[NorthCarolina]

86. I believe you've stated the most popular sentiment with the people. It's just not popular

with TPTB which is reflected by the corporate media.

[JackInGreen]

88. HEAR EFFIN HEAR

[cwydro]

90. I agree. nt

[toby jo]

92. Let's go to battle against the capitalist caliphate.

For 6 centuries the middle east was the light bulb that kept civilization going, far outpacing anything western culture had to offer.

It's on them to recapture that skill, not us. They should probably start by throwing off the definitions of statehood the Brits threw at them after the Ottoman Empire collapse. A hard enough job, but impossible with our constant intervention.

[Xyzse]

97. Actually agree with you here. I haven't been paying much attention to ISIS/ISIL...

Or whatever supposed "Jihadi" du jour, is taking over the airwaves.

Only reason we got hit so hard to begin with is due to Bush/Cheney incompetence.

[Thespian2]

99. Agree

When America gets bogged down in this chess-pool, ISIS/ISIL wins. Congratulations to American war-mongers!

[locks]

101. Drifting rudderless

Sorry, hughee, that I didn't put a "sarcasm" on my first response. And thanks, nomore, for noticing. I appreciate all the responses to this great post. But finding it hard not to feel disappointed, dismayed, disgusted, and depressed by the way our beloved nation is once more being drawn into a stupid and unnecessary war. I have lived through so many of them and wept for the millions who died and for the many opportunities we had for world peace that we screwed up.

Yesterday in Reuters online Andrew Bacevich, a Vietnam veteran, wrote "Obama is picking his targets in Iraq and Syria while missing the point." He writes: destroying what Obama calls the Islamic State of Iraq won't solve the problems... (in Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Libya, Turkey, Israel or Palestine.)

"All the military power in the world won't solve those problems. Obama knows that. Yet he is allowing himself to be drawn back into the very war he once correctly denounced as stupid and unnecessary, mostly because he and his advisers don't know what else to do. Bombing has become his administration's default opinion.
Rudderless and without a compass the American ship of state continues to drift, guns blazing."

[KoKo]

102. Well Said!

[adigal]

103. I want to know why it is OK to kill people from Nebraska with drones

Families, children, etc. But when others act violently, we are going to bomb entire countries.

Moral relativism at its worst. It's ok because we are American.

I agree - let's get free from the need for the oil from that part of the world, and let them sort it out. Enough of our blood and treasure going to help people who seem to love fighting.

[leftstreet]

105. Ditto

DURec

[Paladin]

106. The definition of insanity:

Words to the effect of "Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result."

And here we go, yet again. Being stampeded into yet another war, which will result in the formation of yet another mid-eastern street gang to replace ISIS/ISIL/Insert today's name here.

I'm sick to death of it. We never, ever seem to learn.

[CrispyQ]

107. This action will create the next generation of ISIS & the cycle will never stop.

And senators like DiFi will continue to see their bank accounts grow. President Obama will not do too badly either, I'm am sure of it.

What about the evil of a government that does not take care of it's own? A government that sets policy that allows the 1% to prey on the 99%? A government that knows that some of it's children go to bed hungry but cut food assistance anyway? A government that takes from the needy to give to the well off?

I won't even go into how we've armed the world & overthrown democratically elected leaders to install dictators that will do the bidding of our oil companies & the goddamned fucking drones.

[LynnTheDem]

111. I realize this is not a popular sentiment, but I don't give a damn

Agreed.

USA supported Saddam Hussein for years, getting him to do US's dirty work. When the arrangement no longer suited the US, Hussein was suddenly a "terrorist".

Americans (half of them, at any rate) may be too stupid or gullible to recognize this playbook. But most the rest of the world isn't.

It's why 911 happened.

[snappyturtle]

113. Your remarks regarding our allies really hit home with me

recalling this article:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/saudi-arabia-scheduled-beheading-reflects-authorities-callous-disregard-human-rights-2014-08-22

snip...

There has been a surge in executions in Saudi Arabia since the end of Ramadan on 28 July, with 22 executions between 4 August and 22 August, compared to 17 announced executions between January and July 2014.

On Monday 18 August, four men – two sets of brothers Hadi bin Saleh Abdullah al-Mutlaq and Awad bin Saleh Abdullah al-Mutlaq along with Mufrih bin Jaber Zayd al-Yami and Ali bin Jaber Zayd al-Yami – were beheaded.

They were reportedly tortured during interrogation, including with beatings and sleep deprivation, in order to extract false confessions. They were sentenced to death largely on the basis of these ‘confessions’.

Their families were told to stop appealing to human rights organizations to save their children from execution.

ISIL, as the President calls them (which is scary to me), can't hold a candle, so far anyway, to Saudi Arabia for beheadings. I think ISiS is a fear factor that our gov't. hopes will drive U.S. public opinion toward favoring intervention (war). imho

[sinkingfeeling]

121. But we have a long history of "allying ourselves with intolerant monarchies....etc."

[KansDem]

125. You'll get no argument out of me! (nt)

[On the Road]

126. Doesnt Matter How Many Civilians are Killed, Then

or how many overseas Americans are beheaded. At least your hands are clean.

[J_J_]

129. Apparently this is a popular sentiment

THE most popular sentiment on DEMOCRATIC Underground right now....perhaps someone should send this thread to the DEMOCRATIC President?

[Progressive dog]

137. I'm all for not having to choose sides between

people, but when faced with people who are presently on a murderous rampage and those who aren't, my choice is easy.
ISIS is not killing the dictators or the kings, it is killing their subjects. The people in refugee camps are not kings or dictators, they are just people. They are not participants in the ISIS killings, they are victims.

[TRoN33]

138. Damn right.

[ChiciB1]

142. I Agree With The Most Of Your Post, Especially NO XL...

BUT, I'm pretty much opposed to the Hillary 2016 bumper stickers! Just this year alone she's made some pretty of the cuff statements. Regardless if she's tried to walk them back or redefine what she said I feel she's even more hawkish than Obama! Unfortunately Obama, who actually voted against the previous war has been handed so much crap and very little help from a "do nothing" Congress I don't feel even he wants to go forward with much of what his strategy is. We have the 2014 elections coming up and I think he's trying to "split the baby" as best he can.

Which is NOT to say that I'm happy with where we find ourselves as a so called Super Power! Too many other countries seem pretty cowardly and unwilling to offer help. I can understand how they feel, but I want so badly for the MSM to actually report the HOW & WHY this mess began and point fingers at the real culprits!

I personally feel Hillary leans further to the right than Obama, and I know I'm to the left of Obama. I've come to feel sorry for him, angered that he has a Congress that does nothing but denigrate each and everything he tries to do simply to rile up American people. And I'm appalled that so many people can't see any further than their nose, willing to vote against their best interests if THEY VOTE AT ALL!

I do feel Repukes get the message, just vote for anything with an (R) beside their name and go merrily along their way! DLC Democrats and Democrats in general will follow "big dog" because he's shown he has true charisma and is a true threat to Repukes. Bring him on board, and it's Hillary no matter what.

I feel we need some competition and candidates who will run AGAINST her because I honestly believe she has a hawkish outlook on where this country should be.
JMHO!

[WestCoasterDude]

143. Totally Agree!

Everyone agrees that ISIS does not represent a threat to the US so WHY(?) is the move underway to engage in yet another endless war!!!

[Adam051188]

144. if we had a real democratic government instead of...what we have now....

...lots and lots of things would be different.

islam is practiced in lots of ways that most westerners would find appalling. the prophet Muhammad had a nine year old wife whom he consummated his marriage with, as well as other wives at the time. he also killed people in battle and let soldiers in war. i don't care what anyone says islam in it's currently practiced form in many third world nations is a violent religion that encourages slavery(infidels), ownership of women, and violence(more infidels). i understand that there are those who cherry pick their scriptures and practice it peacefully, but that is neither here nor there. threatening people who draw political cartoons depicting the notion that islam encourages terrorism with it's teachings concerning martyrdom only leads me further in the direction of my current reasoning.

oil companies, arms dealers, and money printers rule the world. this is their game. we can play judge all we want but the american public is largely powerless.

[llmart]

145. I agree 100%!

I've been on this earth 65 years and the Middle East has been engaged in one conflict after another for as long as I can remember. Call me an isolationist, but we need to stop interfering in their conflicts.

[RKP5637]

154. Yep, I've said that so many times, my entire life I've listened to this endless Middle East crap.

Presidents come and go, congress changes and the same old BS continues. Frankly, I'm fed up with hearing about the Middle East. And, what do we accomplish. It seems most of the time we end up supporting one despotic leader or another.

I think the US is constantly played as a sucker. There is also big money in fear, and it perpetuates the MIC. None really want any of these wars to stop. It's a BIG money maker!

Let's pay attention to what is happening in the US. We can't even get problems in the US under control. Let's quite trying to be the cops of the universe and get our own act together.