Fahrenheit 911 (Full)... Remember When We Applauded The Effort ??? - (DARE Ya To Watch !!!)

[WillyT]

[Autumn]

1. We sure did. I watched that in a theater with maybe thirty other people

in the theater. As soon as it was released at the store I bought two copies. And here we are. Again.

[WillyT]

2. Me Too... ProudPatriot, Arcane1, HellHathNo Fury, and Others...

We used to have DU Gatherings that involved important matters/films/Docs.

[marym625]

27. used to

How sad. Should be "we do have"

I did too. Only have one copy but it's autographed!

[arcane1]

45. And we WILL AGAIN!!!!1

[DesertFlower]

3. i've seen it several times. always on tv.

haven't been inside a movie theater since '75.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

4. Back when the Democratic Party was lining up to support Bush.

A real left wing movement formed to oppose Bush and his empire, but far too many fell in line as soon "our side" came into power. Now the DLC, third-way approved, Clinton democrats are running the show, and anyone slightly left of center is shut out. It's funny how victory can mean defeat.

[City Lights]

37. Well said! nt

[laundry_queen]

83. So true. nt

[egduj]

5. But there's a picture of Bruce Vilanch that discounts anything and everything Michael Moore...

has ever stood for.

I saw a thread on it.

[sabrina 1]

10. I saw that thread too. I'm sure it changed a lot of minds, but not about MM!

[adirondacker]

6. Amazing that Roger and Me is more relevant now than when it first came out. Perhaps some need to

watch that one as well.

[sabrina 1]

52. So is 'Capitalism, A Love Story'. When I first saw it I had not yet grasped the sheer

scope of the crash and its effect on so many millions of people. THAT should be viewed again now in light of all we've learned. Another great MM documentary which he said would be his last unless the people themselves were willing to do something about this country. I guess you get tired sticking your neck out only to be attacked and smeared by morons who are part of the problem and see no one doing much about it.

He had to have bodyguards for himself and his family due to the death threats he received after his films were released.

[liberal_at_heart]

112. oh, that's another one I haven't seen yet but want to.

[Enthusiast]

7. Kicked and recommended!

Thank you, WillyT.

[lonestarnot]

8. So what is the scoop with big mike? Why have DUers soured on 'im?

[Skittles]

20. he dared to speak out about his disappointment with Obama

you know what that means

[geek tragedy]

28. No, it was the racism that's being criticized. What's fascinating is how

many 'true progressives' refuse to acknowledge that a rich white man reducing President Obama to the color of his skin might be just a little over the top.

But, no, it's the Obama supporters' fault for objecting to racist commentary.

[lonestarnot]

43. Geeze. I missed that, and am afraid to ask what he said.

[geek tragedy]

44. the quote:

"When the history is written of this era, this is how you'll be remembered: he was the first black president," Moore said during a discussion at The Hollywood Reporter's video lounge at the Toronto Film Festival.

"OK, not a bad accomplishment, but that's it," the director said. "That's it, Mr. Obama. 100 years from now, 'he was the first black American that got elected president' and that's it.

[lonestarnot]

60. And?

[geek tragedy]

62. it's ugly and offensive. nt

[AnalystInParadise]

65. How?

n/t

[geek tragedy]

66. same reason that it's offensive when Republicans try to reduce his accomplishments

to his skin color.

[WillyT]

67. So... When Cornel West And Tavis Smiley Make Similar Complaints... Is THAT Racist ???

And please... tell me about your experiences as an Afro-American.

[geek tragedy]

68. Cornel West race baits Obama constantly, and yes that is ugly and offensive.

West is a straight-up Obama hater, who belches garbage like this:

“I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men,” West says. “It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white. He is just as human as I am, but that is his cultural formation. When he meets an independent black brother, it is frightening. And that’s true for a white brother. When you get a white brother who meets a free, independent black man, they got to be mature to really embrace fully what the brother is saying to them. It’s a tension, given the history. It can be overcome. Obama, coming out of Kansas influence, white, loving grandparents, coming out of Hawaii and Indonesia, when he meets these independent black folk who have a history of slavery, Jim Crow, Jane Crow and so on, he is very apprehensive. He has a certain rootlessness, a deracination. It is understandable.

“He feels most comfortable with upper middle-class white and Jewish men who consider themselves very smart, very savvy and very effective in getting what they want,” he says.

Cliffs Notes version: He called Obama an 'Oreo'

People on the extreme left don't get a pass to do that kind of shit

I know MM is a hero who walks on water to some people, but . . .

[AnalystInParadise]

71. I think Moore is a blowhard

but I also can't find anything racist in his statement. It's like calling all soldiers heroes, we cheapen the word racism when we play this bullshit game.

[geek tragedy]

72. not every example of racism is dropping the n-word

tokenizing is also a form of that

[AnalystInParadise]

74. And stating

that the public might ONLY remember a President because of his historical barrier breaking is also not racist.

[geek tragedy]

77. a shopworn cliche amongst those in the peanut gallery for expressing their own

feelings is to say "this is how he will be remembered"--without exception it's nothing more than their own emotive rant that follows.

it's partly born of the narcissism that causes people to think that their personal emotional feelings are the consensus of this and all future generations

As I said, it takes a determined ignorance to claim that Obama won't be remembered for Obamacare.

[AnalystInParadise]

80. If someday the Pukes

repeal it, he won't be remembered for it........... I guess in your mind I am a racist now also.

[geek tragedy]

81. Obamacare is never going to be repealed. It'll get tweaked here and there, but the basic

structure is here to stay.

The Republicans knew they'd never be able to repeal it once it got up and running.

I don't think Moore was predicting it would be repealed. He appeared ignorant that it even existed.

[AnalystInParadise]

84. But if it does

then his words are definitely true.............

I hope it doesn't but you never know what this country is going to do somedays.

[geek tragedy]

86. Sure, just like if Obama confiscates everyone's guns then he'll be remembered for that

while we're living in fantasy land

[AnalystInParadise]

90. Well we apparently

live in a fantasy land where criticism of PBO by committed progressives is a sign of racism. Join us in reality, where not ever criticism is racism. It's not too late for you.

[sabrina 1]

99. There isn't anything racist in the comment. But watch for this being used to try to avoid

addressing the actual issues that not only MM has raised. The goal is to distract from the issues. I have yet to see those who use women, gays and minorities, which is reprehensible btw, to do this whenever they cannot deal with the actual issues. It's become a well known tactic.

[AnalystInParadise]

69. What on earth are you talking about?

I swear... sometimes people see racism everywhere, it is embarrassing.

[geek tragedy]

70. Moore's the one who played the race card nt

[AnalystInParadise]

73. How?

Seriously....How did Moore play a race card? Moore stated an opinion that President Obama has been ineffectual and in his opinion will only be remembered as the first non-white President. Christ on a cracker, how is that racist? That really is reaching man.

[geek tragedy]

75. that means that all Moore sees is his skin color, not his record

if the only thing a person can think of regarding Obama's accomplishments in office is a reference to his skin color, that is race-baiting and it's also evidence the person is a complete ignoramus.

Even the knuckle-draggers on the right will remember substantive aspects to Obama's presidency. pathetic that Moore sinks below that

[AnalystInParadise]

79. So you know what Moore was thinking?

Interesting...........have you patented that mind reading technology?

I think Moore means (strictly Moore's opinion) that as the President becomes less and less effective, the public and history will see him for his historical election, rather than anything substantive during his time in office. That is not outrageous and not racist.....not every criticism is racist you know.

[geek tragedy]

85. Moore made it quite clear what he was thinking.

He looks at Obama and thinks two things:

1) black
2) no accomplishments

he explicitly linked the two.

Rightwing racist idiots: Obama only won because he's black
Leftwing racist idiots: Obama will only be remembered because he's black

Same shit, different pile

[AnalystInParadise]

89. Whatever you say champ

Fortunately the more intelligent DUers are not buying what you are selling

[lonestarnot]

100. Did you post something else? I didn't see it.

[Hissyspit]

56. Why?

You really think Michael Moore said something racist?

Sheesh.

[sabrina 1]

53. Sure, MM is now a racist! ANYONE who isn't fully on board with all of this president's policies has

been the target of this most vile and false allegation.

Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Lol, I'm sure you'll get a few to help you try to spread that around, but a majority of people are sick to death of the smear campaigns against good people. I hope you don't think that attacking those who tell the truth is the way to get Democrats elected?

I notice you've been working hard on this smear. How many threads have you been in with this false allegation so far?

What MM said was a fact, unless we've had another Minority President that none of us remember. Of course Obama will be remembered for being the first African American president, just as the first woman, if we ever get one, will be remembered for that.

Are you saying Obama is NOT the first African American to become president?? Explain that please.

[noiretextatique]

21. he has been deemed irrelevant

by the BOG.

[geek tragedy]

29. and anyone who objects to racism even if it comes from leftwing rich white people nt

[Hissyspit]

55. Because it's not racist?

[noiretextatique]

113. moore is racist?

i didn't get that memo.

[Drunken Irishman]

9. What did more harm to their collective targets - Moore's movie or helping Bush get elected?

Answer me that question, bud. Moore's movie did shit. Bush went on to get reelected and continued his war. Moore went on to bloat his wallet. But what's Moore's legacy? His crypto-support of Bush in 2000 or stopping Bush's awful war? Moore has the blood of thousands of dead Iraqis on his hands and he has the audacity to say Obama disappointed him?

You guys bitch about throwing people under the bus - Moore threw Gore under the bus long ago and we're still paying for it. Moore can go fuck himself. One documentary doesn't undo the damage and devastation his piece of shit ass did to this country. Fuck him.

[Marr]

11. "The damage and devastation Michael Moore did to this country".

LOL-- you have got to be fucking kidding me.

[Drunken Irishman]

13. Nope.

Moore purposely lied to the American people and told naive leftists that if you were going to vote Gore, you might as well vote Bush since Bush was at least authentic.

It was bullshit then. It's bullshit now. He duped people into supporting Nader or not voting, selling an idea that didn't exist.

[G_j]

35. what is BS

is your post...

[arcane1]

49. It's a good thing the Bush/Harris caging lists had nothing to do with it n/t

[derby378]

30. Don't Feed the Bears

[adigal]

42. I adored when he went to the Republican Convention

and was booed for minutes. Great, brave man.

[sabrina 1]

12. Wow, you got every right wing talking point about MM down pat. 'bloat his wallet'. Btw, do

know anything Moore and his 'wallet' which the far right were/are so obsessed with? You clearly have no idea how much good MM has done with that wallet, or perhaps it doesn't matter to you.

What his films have done is to educate people as to the facts the Corporate Media tries to keep from the American people. It sure frightened the War Criminals enough and their Corporate Buddies that there were threats to even movie goers if they went to see that movie. I remember going anhow, but wasn't sure if we were going to be shot.

As a result, today the younger generation no longer accepts the lies we are told, and that appears to be frustrating you to the point you are resorting to lame personal attacks on one of this country's best documentary makers and truth tellers.

[Drunken Irishman]

14. None of that matters because he openly lied in 2000.

It's not a right-wing slam. It's the truth. Moore lied. His quote that there was absolutely no difference between Gore & Bush, and that you might as well vote Bush if you were going to vote Gore, since, you know, Bush was at least authentic, played into the right-wing narrative of that election to drive down liberal enthusiasm and suppress the vote via depressing it. It worked. Too many people were apathetic, so apathetic that in one of the closest elections in American history, 'only' 54% of the country voted. To put that into perspective, in 2012, 58% of the country voted.

Moore, along with the MSM, did everything in their power to paint Bush as a moderate cut from the same cloth as Clinton/Gore. It didn't matter who you voted for, you were getting the same guy!

Well that was a lie. Anyone with a half of a brain would've known that. Sadly, Moore IS smart. He knew. But he didn't care. Fuck him.

[KJG52]

15. Who are you?

This bilge is beyond ridiculous, first its the people on DU wouldn't have supported FDR against the Nazi's because... and now Michael Moore was pro-Bush because he was anti-DLC ? You are truly a partisan jackass. You think a (D) behind somebody's name makes them a saint and everything Democrats do is not subject to criticism, especially Obama's continuation of "W's"- "War on Terror," because ...? I think you need to sober up and step away from the keyboard "Drunken Irishman," before you do yourself some serious mind-bending harm... The ability to keep two completely contradictory thoughts in mind at the same time may be a mark of genius; however, it is more often a mark of dishonesty or insanity... to be a Democrat is not to be a mindless automaton, this is more the mark of a partisan hack or apologist... which are you?

[Drunken Irishman]

16. Blah, blah, blah...

I'm a pragmatic person who, when I wasn't even of voting age, knew there was a huge difference between Bush and Gore.

[deutsey]

24. +1

[AnalystInParadise]

82. +1 to the guy that got hidden

That was worth a hide? Damn the BOG is getting desperate.

[L0oniX]

103. +2 to the guy that got his post hidden.

[QC]

115. +3

[Octafish]

25. +2

[G_j]

36. +3

[WillyT]

40. That Explains A Whole... Lot

[QC]

61. Yes, but some truths cannot be told. n/t

[reddread]

94. while lying acquires immunity, power, and comfort.

telling the truth can put you on the run.

[QC]

95. Sadly, that is very true. n/t

[KoKo]

48. Recommend.....worth the read even though it got a hide...just a luck of the draw.

[Union Scribe]

92. +1

[L0oniX]

102. I suggest you delete that or someone will alert on it.

[sabrina 1]

33. Maybe it was Lieberman he was worried about, and maybe if we had been more INFORMED back

then we too would have been seriously worried about the choice of Lieberman and Bush. Liebermann was WORSE than Bush. Yes, a whole lot of people understood what many of us didn't back then, that the SYSTEM is what's rotten and THAT is why we voted for CHANGE, isn't it, because by then we had grown enough to learn about this rotten system.

MM has done more for this country than many of our elected officials. The truth matters to a nation's future and it's out there now, thanks to people like him, so that future generations aren't as easily manipulation and therefore complicit as we were.

He's a true patriot, not the pretend kind, the kind that actually cares about this COUNTRY.

[Union Scribe]

46. Yep, when given any excuse out come the RW talking points

Whether it's rah-rah war or Michael Moore or Snowden/NSA etc etc, they feel liberated to say what's really been on their minds. It's very revealing.

[sabrina 1]

47. It's been a very revealing couple of years. I guess I was pretty naive, actually thinking WE opposed

Bush policies on principle. I didn't know it was really just about politics after all. Well, at least for some.

I'm glad I know, won't be fooled again as someone infamous once said.

[Hissyspit]

18. What a pile of shit.

[sabrina 1]

54. You can say that again!

[L0oniX]

104. I'll step up to the plate for him and say it was a pile of shit ...again.

[QC]

96. Ain't that the truth!

The post is pretty crummy, too.

[ucrdem]

78. Well put. Furthermore Fahrenheit 911 is a sanitized fairly tale that carries water for Bush-Cheney.

I saw it when it came out and thought, noble effort, but it breaks absolutely no new ground, tells me nothing I didn't know, and basically shores up the official lie. Looking back on it I wonder if MM is really so clueless or perhaps something less amusing.

[Union Scribe]

91. Maybe you can elaborate

on what in the film "carries water for Bush-Cheney"?

[L0oniX]

105. OFFS

[sabrina 1]

107. When we went to see it we met a soldier on the way out. My friend asked him what he thought of it.

He said he had gone in thinking he would be able to better argue with 'liberals'. He said that he was stunned. He had tears in his eyes as he told us 'I had no idea that the Bush and Bin Ladin families were friends. He wanted to know 'wtf is going on, we have been LIED TO'.

We may have known, but a majority of Americans did not. The media was not reporting on things, like the Bush/Bin Laden association. Most Americans thought Bin Laden was not even human, let alone a friend of the Bushes.

And that is WHY MM made the movie. He was as frustrated as we were that the media was ignoring the truth. So he tried to fit as many facts NOT covered by the media into the Documentary.

He was threatened, efforts were made to stop the movie from being shown, threats were made against theaters who were showing it AND against people going to see it.

Your attempt to dismiss the importance of that documentary at the time isn't going to work on those who were there. I even learned something I did not know.

Until that documentary came out none of us knew about the Senate vote and Al Gore's part in it. THAT was a shock.

MM is an excellent story teller, he gives the facts in a way that most people can understand.

And that is why that soldier was crying that day. He KNEW he had just been told some truth.

[ucrdem]

109. That's a good outcome, sure.

I hope the soldier voted for Kerry and not Bush or Badnarik (the Libertarian) that November but as I recall the movie didn't really have a GOTV message, more of a "they're all clowns and incompetents" message of the sort that typically leads to a Ron Paul or Nader vote, speaking only from my very limited personal experience. And it didn't suggest criminality and that's my main beef with it. Incompetence and criminality are two different animals entirely.

[sabrina 1]

110. Reporting of news is not intended to be aimed directly at getting out the vote. Fahrenheit 9/11 was

made for one reason at that time. The appalling coverage by the media, the lies we were being told, the FACTS that were NOT being told, and I remember it well, I could not even watch it after a while, prompted Moore to use HIS medium to try to fill in all those facts WE ON LINE KNEW but we also KNEW that most Americans were NOT ON LINE at that time and had no CLUE.

It was not a Hollywood production, the media certainly didn't advertise it so it wasn't going to reach everyone, but it did reach a large number of people some of whom to make sure others got to see it held FHRHT 9/11 parties around the country.

Getting the facts out at that time was EXTREMELY difficult. MM did a masterful job of starting that ball rolling. And he was the ONLY ONE. If others had followed his example, even MORE people would have learned some facts.

But he did show that people don't have to depend on the media. That they COULD follow his example and begin the process of spreading the truth THEMSELVES.

He never claimed he had the power to change elections. But he DID provide the information and it was up the people to seek it out and MANY did.

That movie along with other courageous people who insisted on countering the MSM propaganda, began the process of breaking through the media haze and did influence a lot of YOUNG PEOPLE who ended up voting for Obama in 2008.

I don't know what that soldier did. In some ways I was thinking that he was better off believing the lies since probably did end up in Iraq. But I hope he made it home and I hope he was among those who voted out Republicans in 2008.

[ucrdem]

111. Yes, true, but unfortunately, news broadcasts are usually partisan.

FOX and CNN famously, but even the earliest TV news programs, where they still exist, are partisan, sometimes openly, usually covertly in the way broadcasters being business people have a natural bias toward business-friendly pols, programs, and parties, namely the GOP.

In any case, Moore was making a movie, which we expect to be artistic, and he's very proud of his narrative skills as are most soi-disant auteurs. So what's the "story" Moore tells us? All about a diabolically corrupt administration illegally installed in the White House? Nope, we get a treacly tale of a dim-witted trust funder who bungles the big one but rises to the occasion. And that was the official GOP line at the time: incompetence. And 3 years after 9/11 was plenty of time for many including myself to realize that it was a lot more sinister than that. But Moore doesn't go there. Fine, it's his movie, but I don't think it did much for Democrats.

[Mnpaul]

114. Watch the "special features" on the DVD

and realize what a ridiculous statement you just made.

Or didn't you know about that?

[Al Carroll]

87. Moore's film helped the Dems quite a bit

You have just about every fact wrong.

It was a close election despite Kerry being a terrible candidate. F911 was a blatant get out the vote effort that probably helped the Dems by 3 or 4 percent points at least. Without it Kerry would have lost as badly as Mondale in 88, by a 3 to 2 margin. And the film's opening is practically a love letter to Gore.

[ucrdem]

88. Why would a love letter to Gore help Kerry in 2004?

It was nicely timed, I'll give you that, but it pulled its punches and by my lights did more to rehabilitate Bush by painting him as a sitcom slacker who missed a few signals than it helped Kerry, who I don't remember seeing much of in the film.

[L0oniX]

101. WTF LMFAO

"One documentary doesn't undo the damage and devastation his piece of shit ass did to this country "

[AzDar]

19. Oh, I surely do. It was MM's website that brought me to DU. Saw F 9/11 the day it came out...

and left the theater delighted and relieved that now, there was NO WAY Dubya could be re-elected.

Le sigh.

[reddread]

22. one thing Michael Moore was ALWAYS good for, bringing out the conservative wolves

some bait they cannot refuse.

WHO is that handsome soul at 58:55?
so far a timeless classic..
thanks, America!

[sabrina 1]

34. That is for sure. Re bringing out the wolves from the right. And yes, that is a classic.

[Autumn]

76. I love him. He sure has separated the wheat from the chaff here on DU

[QC]

64. Yes, he always does enrage the right wing dumbshits,

including the ones who falsely present themselves as Democrats and progressives.

[raven mad]

23. Watched. Again.

Crying. Again.

[MohRokTah]

26. Fuck Michael Moore.

I'll never again devote a single moment to watching anything he does as his opinion is of no concern to me any longer.

[Octafish]

31. What it's ALL about...

The White House redacted James R Bath's name. Why? Bush's chum happened to be the bin Laden families official business agent in the USA:



Gee. It's like a miracle no one with authority wonders why Bush let them fly out of the country.

[KoKo]

50. Definitely....thanks for posting that as a referesher....

[Octafish]

57. James R Bath Links Bush and BFEE to House of Bin Laden

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3234845

[derby378]

32. On behalf of everyone on DU - thank you, Michael Moore

Seems some of our errant brethren have short memories. We'll turn them around soon enough.

[Zorra]

38. +1

[deathrind]

39. This movie still sends the right into

A hissy fit. I have shut down many conversations about this movie over the years with people on the right who monologue at length about how the movie is "full of lies"by simply asking if the movie really is "full of lies" why bush and family did not file a lawsuit against MM for liable or defamation.

End conversation. Full stop.

[adigal]

41. I got ill watching businesses talk about the $$ that could be made from the war

LIterally, had to leave the room. THought I would throw up. How blatant. And immoral.

Yes, I was naive.

[KoKo]

51. No better time for a repeat View....Thanks Willy T!

[Blue_Tires]

58. "Dare me to watch?"

I saw it in the theaters FOUR times! Three of those times I dragged along a friend who was a Bush voter or political moderate...

I've seen all of MM's movies multiple times...

[Progressive dog]

59. This has nothing to do with the present

administration. Obama cannot turn the clock back to before the invasion of Iraq. If Bush let Bin Laden's relatives leave, Obama cannot magically make them return. If Bush put the majority Shia in control if Iraq, Obama cannot resurrect Saddam and restore him to power.
President Obama is not a magician, he can't undo what has been done.
If Michael Moore makes another documentary, I might watch it. That does not mean that I have to agree with any prediction he makes.
I might even watch F911 again at some point (I have the DVD) but documentaries become out of date, and so do documentary producers when they remain rooted in the past.

[WillyT]

63. Really ???

I think it is different, yet the same overall.

Remember... he ran on overturning the Bush BullShit.

And many of us voted for him largely on that.

[reddread]

93. He did get us out of Iraq

[Progressive dog]

97. Obama ran on going after the terrorists

that attacked us. He never repudiated that. He ran on increasing troops in Afghanistan and getting Bin Laden. He did both.
Reducing what he ran on to "overturning the Bush "BullShit" may be easy for you to remember, but I hope most people know a bit more about what Obama ran on.

[malaise]

98. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

We have nearly every Michael Moore documentary and I don't have to agree with his every word to have aprofound respect for him.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

[liberal_at_heart]

108. Fahrenheit 911 and Sicko were both great. I've been wanting to see Bowling for Columbine.

I haven't seen that one yet. It looks good too.