Rate President Obama's speech last night

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	A
	1 (20%)
	B
	0 (0%)
	C
	0 (0%)
	D
	2 (40%)
	E
	0 (0%)
	F
	2 (40%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[leftstreet]

1. Didn't watch it. Don't give a shit

If he'd planned an appeal to citizens before going to Congress for a vote, it MIGHT have been worth watching

I'll wait til he makes a speech on a jobs program, rebuilding US infrastructure, adding a public option to the ACA...

[deutsey]

2. +1

[2banon]

28. ^^^^This^^^ +1000

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Well, you gentlemen or women can disagree with the topic of the speech...

Well, you gentlemen or women can disagree with the topic of the speech but you can't deny it's import...

[grahamhgreen]

19. Very important. Open ended commitment to a 1400 year old war.

[NaturalHigh]

4. I didn't watch.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. It was only fifteen minutes or so. The pres is worth fifteen minutes out of my life./NT

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. The same, tired, flagwaving, justification for violence that the bosses have used since Genesis.

[woo me with science]

7. PNAC garbage for the masses.

[Moondog]

8. Same stuff, different day.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Erect Bogeyman, wave flag, start bombing, send troops, and talk about peace.

Works every time.

[MohRokTah]

10. I notice the vocal ODS posters aren't voting much.

I would give it an A+ if there was such a choice in the poll.

[leftstreet]

11. Obama's Loyal Supporters are probably tongue-tied n/t

[MohRokTah]

12. Obama has my support because he deserves it.

The ODS people around here have never had his back.

[grahamhgreen]

18. See below. How do we pay for it? (Crickets)

[hedgehog]

13. I watched it, and came away thinking it was a speech he didn't want to give.

I think he has been handed a lousy situation, and a limited number of tools to handle it with. He has to be suspect of every piece of data that comes to him from the CIA, National Security Agency, Military Intelligence, etc. Is the information accurate? Does the report reflect the objectives of the people who assembled it, or is it as good a picture of the situation as he is going to get?

Can we just pull out all military assets and walk away? I doubt that Obama has this option. Don't forget, we have a Congress under pressure from Israel and the Saudis to take certain actions (or inactions) in the area.

Do I trust Obama to order the minimum use of military force that he thinks will protect the American people? Yes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. ISIS represents a much larger threat to the Arab world than it can ever present to Israel.

As long as they are fighting amongst themselves they can't fight Israel. That being said, most Arab countries gave up that fight after the 1973 October war.

[grahamhgreen]

17. Can he ask Israel and the Saudis to pay for it? Yes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Why should Israel pay for it?

From a realpolitik perspective ISIS wreaking havoc in the Arab world serves their purpose: as long as Arabs are fighting amongst themselves, they aren't fighting with them. ISIS is also the archenemy of their enemy, Iran. That being said they are a dagger aimed at the heart of the Saudi monarchy.

DU doesn't do nuance well.

[grahamhgreen]

21. In response to hedgehogs comment:

"Don't forget, we have a Congress under pressure from Israel and the Saudis to take certain actions (or inactions) in the area. "

If they want us to act, they can pay, otherwise, who pays?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. ISIS has picked a fight with so many groups so far

1) The Kurds
2) The Syrians
3) The primarily Shia led Iraqi government and by their extension their allies in Iran.
4) The Yazidis
5) The Americans and the British
6) The Russians

This is going to be impossible to navigate.


Oh, Saudi Arabia will gladly pay us to be their mercenaries, like they did in Gulf War 1, but is it morally justified?

[grahamhgreen]

23. More justifiable than starving granny.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I see your point...

But if you're going to ask somebody to put their life on the line it should be for more than filthy lucre. A clearly articulable and noble goal would be nice.

I don't think it's remarkable to say any president in our lifetime would be reacting essentially the same as President Obama is. I'm not saying that's good or bad...I am saying it shows how narrow a sphere presidents operate in.

[grahamhgreen]

29. I agree. I see this as a great opportunity to ask those that want war to pay for it. "put their

money where their mouth is" so to speak.

If they refuse to pay for 'defense', they don't deserve it, IMHO.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. They should put their militaries where their mouths are...

But, alas, America is an empire with global ambitions and I don't see that paradigm changing. Do you?

[grahamhgreen]

31. No. We're in it now. I would have love to see us foster an Iranian/Saudi/Syrian/Israeli coalition

to fight these nutbags.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. When Bush* said the war on terror would be like no other war...

There would be no amphibious landings, no VE Days, no pitched battles he was on to something.

ISIS will eventually burn out or morph into something else as they morphed from Al Qaeda. As you said up thread this has been going on for 1,400 years. They are in it for the long run.

[hedgehog]

24. I was thinking of Israel and the Saudis in general terms, not just ISIL -

we will be incapable of walking away from the Middle East until Congress ignores the pressure from outside the country and money flowing from inside.

[grahamhgreen]

25. Just saying we should ask them to pay. I'm tapped.

[geek tragedy]

14. Didn't watch it, never watch speeches

That said, I'm broadly sympathetic to the lack of good options facing him and his dilemma in sorting them out.

[grahamhgreen]

16. F. How do we pay for it? How much will it cost? How long will it take? What are the metrics for

success? Why is this issue more important than all of our problems at home?

EDIT: (crickets)

[2banon]

27. Didn't watch or listen.

I figured I'd learn the bottom line up-shot on the "inter-tubes" ... so i'm reading about it here on du, and from I can glean so far, I'm really glad I didn't waste my time "tuning in".

It all seems like Orwell's Perpetual Wars among Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia..

I just can't take in anymore...