Call me shocked. Counterterrorism Experts claim ISIS threat "distorted" and "a farce"

[SomethingFishy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/world/middleeast/struggling-to-gauge-isis-threat-even-as-us-prepares-to-act.html?_r=2

"WASHINGTON — The violent ambitions of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria have been condemned across the world: in Europe and the Middle East, by Sunni nations and Shiite ones, and by sworn enemies like Israel and Iran. Pope Francis joined the call for ISIS to be stopped.

But as President Obama prepares to send the United States on what could be a yearslong military campaign against the militant group, American intelligence agencies have concluded that it poses no immediate threat to the United States. Some officials and terrorism experts believe that the actual danger posed by ISIS has been distorted in hours of television punditry and alarmist statements by politicians, and that there has been little substantive public debate about the unintended consequences of expanding American military action in the Middle East"

Daniel Benjamin, who served as the State Department’s top counterterrorism adviser during Mr. Obama’s first term, said the public discussion about the ISIS threat has been a “farce,” with “members of the cabinet and top military officers all over the place describing the threat in lurid terms that are not justified.”

Personally, I'm sure they are wrong and the only thing keeping us safe is Ted Nugent and his band of armed idiots.

[whatchamacallit]

1. Kick

[gratuitous]

2. Nuh uh!

ISIS is, like, worser than a thousand Hitlers, you dirty fucking hippies! Worser than a thousand Hitlers squared, even. Worser than, um, Hitler times Stalin times Justin Bieber to the infinity!

[FrodosPet]

34. Check out these simpering wimps! Who would be scared of THEM?

Warning: NSFW

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=efe_1403037495

[gratuitous]

39. Warning: I don't click on blind, anonymous links

But thanks for playing. Go back under your bed.

[FrodosPet]

46. That sounds more comfortable than sticking my head in the sand

I suppose if you close your eyes so you cannot see a predator, then he is not really there?

I am surprised you are not telling me to go join the military. Too late...been there, done that many years ago, back in Cold War I. But yes, if I was not a physical wreck, and therefore a detriment to combat operations, I would volunteer.

There are LOTS of evil assholes in this world, but this particular group of evil assholes holds a special place in endangering the entire fucking planet by potentially igniting a nuclear war.

Going lalalala I can't see you I can't hear you therefore you don't exist is naive beyond comprehension.

[gratuitous]

50. Is whatever you're wetting your pants about better or worse than this?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2012/jan/12/video-us-troops-urinating-taliban

If you can't tell from the link, it's a video of some star-spangled, freckle-faced fightin' men pissing on the corpses of their vanquished foes. But I interrupted you. What were you saying about evil assholes and how to deal with them?

[FrodosPet]

51. These troops are evil as well, and need to spend decades in prison

But I really do not believe that the U.S. military as a whole goes around shooting, decapitating, or crucifying fleeing, unarmed people. Do some sick individuals? Perhaps.

C'mon, though - try some more!

[FrodosPet]

52. Yes, they WERE court martialed for doing that.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/24/us-marines-charged-dead-taliban

Two US marines are facing criminal charges for urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban fighters in Afghanistan, after their actions were caught on a video that circulated widely on the internet, the US military said on Monday.

Staff sergeants Joseph W Chamblin and Edward W Deptola will face courts martial, the first criminal charges faced by anyone over the incident. The video prompted widespread anger in Afghanistan earlier this year; the Afghan President Hamid Karzai called the marines' actions "inhuman".

Chamblin and Deptola, were also charged with "posing for unofficial photographs with human casualties", and will face charges over failing to report or stop misconduct by junior marines, the military said. Three marines have already been disciplined over the urination incident.

~ snip ~

------------------------------------------

It appears that you are desperate to see America First In Worst, but this is a bad example for you. The unauthorized actions, and subsequent punishment are not the equivalent to "Clanging Of The Swords IV". Now if the Marine Corps itself were to make a recruiting video out of urinating on fallen enemies, you may have a case.

[gratuitous]

53. The Marine Corps DID make a recruiting video out of that

And you seem to have figured out who they recruited. So more of the same against these new recruits will surely wipe out all of them and we'll be safe-safe-safe forever and ever!

[FrodosPet]

60. We are NEVER going to be safe in this universe

Until the final extinction of humanity, there is going to be war. We are ultimately biological creatures, mammals at that. This makes us naturally self preservationists.

By staying out of the current conflict, we MAY get lucky and everyone gets bored and goes home. Or the other nations and groups geographically closer will step up and take the hit with terrorism and internal upheavals. At least, let's hope so.

In any case, we ARE going, we ARE bombing, and unless Rand Paul gets elected, it is pretty likely the next President will keep going until ???

[JDPriestly]

67. Please explain how ISIS could start a nuclear war.

Are they attacking countries that have nuclear weapons?

Do any countries that have nuclear weapons support them?

My opinion: ISIS is a threat. Not necessarily a military threat. They are not a large army and they thus far have no air force.

But if they succeed in taking over territory and controlling it, they are a) unlikely to install a civil, peaceful government but rather are likely to continue dictatorial, cruel, destructive rule possibly including a lot of internal intrigue and slaughter, and b) embolden groups like themselves to try to take territory in other parts of the world (this has already been going in in Africa for generations).

I do not think that ISIS presents an enormous military challenge, but they certainly are a threat to the world and therefore to us. The threat is not the traditional kind of threat. They symbolize anarchy, not admitted anarchy but rather irresponsible, disorganized and extremely undemocratic, probably successive dictatorships. They do not represent a potential future that the US should allow to happen. It probably will not take enormous military commitment to stop them and thereby stop the trend toward anarchy in the Middle East and possibly elsewhere.

[On the Road]

82. Please explain how ISIS could start a nuclear war

If ISIS establishes a stable territory for any period of time, the most direct way to go nuclear would be via Pakistan. Pakistan's military has maintained tight control of their nuclear arsenal in the face of widespread extremism, but ISIS has many, many sympathizers in Pakistan, including within the military. If there is sufficient support and resolve in the right places, there are may ways that a nuclear device could be stolen or commandeered. In comparison with most rogue states, ISIS seems more inclined to actually use nukes if they can get them.

[JDPriestly]

84. Thanks. A lot of ifs, but thannks.

Why, after all our time in Afghanistan, Pakistan and India still have nuclear capacity, I do not know. They should not feel that they need it. It makes them more vulnerable to nuclear attack. Same for all countries including our own.

[On the Road]

107. Well, It Makes Them Subject to Nuclear Attack for Certain Reasons

On the other hand, if the US had destroyed its entire nuclear stock and Russia was still sitting on theirs, the balance of power would be significantly different today, and the US would probably not felt free to taunt the Russian dynamite monkey. Ukraine, Syria, and ISIS would probably have proceeded differently, much more according to Russian wishes.

Al Qaida never had much of a safe harbor except in a few backwards areas like Kandahar, Waziristan, and similar regions. The danger of ISIS is not so much in their possession of a piece of desert. It is having the apparatus of a state supporting what is basically a larger and more aggressive Al Qaida with some Baathist money, hardware, and knowhow. ISIS also provides a state-like entity which can pursue attacks and other plans with infinitely greater freedom than some terrorists hiding in caves. This would very possibly include a coordinated effort to acquire a Pakistani nuclear weapon.

[JDPriestly]

112. Interesting. ISIS, I suspect is more like a gang than a state, but it could develop into

a state after a lot of internal struggle over the pecking order.

We need to be very careful about what groups we decide to ally ourselves with.

[phil89]

56. Yes clearly we must live in fear.

Unbelievable but good job taking the bait.

[FrodosPet]

57. You have a good point. No need for fear.

I am never going to leave the United States, I am staying away from retail locations and large crowds, and I suspect that if Islamic extremists ever tried anything like what is in the video in my neighborhood, they would be outmatched in firepower by the residents.

But for people who are anything other than a Sunni, a totally observant one at that, in the controlled areas of Iraq or Syria, ya, sux to be them. Their problem, their fight.

[Lenomsky]

118. That is fucking horrific .. a caption might have helped.

Warning: don't click the link it's un-necessary just use your imagination - yes it's that awful!

[MohRokTah]

3. The threat of terrorism to the US is absolutely minimal, though it most definitely exists.

It can be handled at the current time entirely by our international intelligence gathering agencies and domestic law enforcement, which is no different than any other international terrorist threat out there.

The threat to our allies in Europe is somewhat more than to us, mostly due to the fluid border between Iraq and Turkey, given the number of European citizens caught up in the middle of ISIL.

[freshwest]

11. Which is just what Obama said, but not the pundits. They know better!

[leftstreet]

4. We didn't even get any color-coded threat levels!

DURec

[BuelahWitch]

5. Personally, I think they were hired by Dick Cheney

Halliburton needed new military contracts, so...

[They_Live]

87. I think you're on the right track with this

and I thought the same thing about Benghazi. It's either Cheney or perhaps Sheldon Adelson. Any number of .01% sociopaths. It's actually cheaper than buying elections here. What's to stop them?

[freebrew]

121. Most likely truer than any of us can imagine.

Too bad there wasn't any real investigation of 911. What led to it, what * knew and when he knew it.

Did cheney order 93 shot down? Why was bin Laden killed instead of captured and interrogated?

Many, many questions. It's only a conspiracy theory until it's proved right, then it's a crime.

Follow the money.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. But..but..we must DO SOMETHING!! However, stupid and self defeating it may be.

See Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, and Afghanistan (not to mention the dozens of others) for precedents.

[SomethingFishy]

10. Oh man, you made me laugh...

You can always count on the good ole USofA to do something stupid and self defeating!


Glad to see this thread got a little attention.. thought it was gonna drop without a reply..

[Enthusiast]

15. We have to pave the way for

Greater Israel.

[woo me with science]

23. ...

[treestar]

7. I was wondering about that

ISIL seems more interested in taking over the ME, so far I have not seen much information that they are planning terror attacks here.

[canuckledragger]

62. Check out any right-wingnut source

Or the trolls in the comments section on any liberal page and they'll tell you that there are millions of ISIL/ISIS members waiting to storm across the mexican border any moment now!

[treestar]

70. Yep

no doubt about that!

[libodem]

8. At least they are not calling them

Al Qaeda in Syria and Iraq. I think the CIA still works for Cheney and they want to drum up business for the MIC and Halliburton. The Arms Cartels need to push some products.

[Oilwellian]

9. This is all about taking out Assad...imho n/t

[mazzarro]

22. BINGO! I think Assad is the primary target

Much as they try to hide their aim, I believe that they want a way to get at Assad especially now that Russia is essentially preoccupied with Ukraine.

[azurnoir]

12. Nooooo no way can't be

can it?

[Enthusiast]

14. I know.

[Enthusiast]

13. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

Thank you, SomethingFishy.

[flamingdem]

16. Well they are a threat to stability in the ME

And that means US interests. We're the only country that can stop ethnic cleansing etc - this is not the same war and a vote should decide if and how it happens.

[FlatStanley]

27. How can you threaten the stability of an unstable region?

And what evidence exists that we have ever successfully stablized that region in the past to suggest we can succeed in stabilizing it now?

[Laelth]

17. IS isn't much of a direct threat to the United States.

But it is a direct threat to our allies because it could disrupt the flow of energy resources from the Middle East to Western Europe.

That's why we're getting involved. More HERE.

-Laelth

[SomethingFishy]

20. Respectfully, that isn't going to get me on board...

It has become the norm to shoot first and try to find a better solution later. It hasn't worked and it will not work. The US is being goaded into attacking ISIS. We are doing exactly what they want us to. And recruitment will go up.

[Laelth]

21. That's the nature of our republic, I suppose.

The people don't have to be "on board" any longer in order for us to go to war.

That said, I think our allies and energy matter a great deal. The President seems to agree.



-Laelth

[grahamhgreen]

25. Then the energy companies can pay for it. Let them hire blackwater directly.

[NickB79]

64. And pass the costs on to us through higher energy costs

Despite the recent (and likely short-lived) oil and gas boom in the US, we still import lots of oil here.

We're fucked either way.

[grahamhgreen]

71. Exactly! Thus bringing down the cost of wind & solar further! They need to pay, we should not

subsidize their dying industry any more.

[TheKentuckian]

49. Our allies can protect their own interests here. They have overwhelming air superiority

for the situation as do others right there in the region.

I also notice that our allies have not only the military capacity but the economic ability to secure their resources and their citizens are not liable for a fucking penny but WE are responsible for the cost at the expense of our own economic security and justice.

Fuck that! A bunch of flimsy rationalizations that are weak, short sighted, and self defeating even accepting the premise.

The most impacted nations have more than enough ability to deal with the situation and being the ones closest to the problem are less likely to entirely screw the pooch.

We are talking some of the most powerful countries in the world in this mix. We are talking nuclear powers. I call bullshit on the whole line of argument.

[A Simple Game]

63. Exactly. Not our job! n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Someone, somewhere, somehow doesn't like us!!!

[font size=10 color=red]KILL THEM!!![/font]

[L0oniX]

69. The NSA?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

113. Not the way they trade our naked pictures.

[OilemFirchen]

19. Who says this?

...with claims that the nation is honeycombed with sleeper cells, that operatives are streaming across the border into Texas or that the group will soon be spraying Ebola virus on mass transit systems — all on the basis of no corroborated information,” said Mr. Benjamin, who is now a scholar at Dartmouth College.

Oh. Right-wing lunatics.

What does this have to do with the Administration's rationale?

[Autumn]

24. Oh my.

Who would ever have thought.

[malaise]

26. All BS all the time

I'm shocked I tell you - NOT!!!!

[Scuba]

28. Same as always ...

[deutsey]

31. +1 Excellent

"If By 'Funny' You Mean "Tragic and Appalling'"

That got a bitter, jaded laugh out of me.

[pscot]

41. How odd

I seem to have developed the same laugh. More like a nervous tic, actually.

[BrotherIvan]

44. Best description of my feelings concerning this and every other propaganda-driven adventure

I would add "weary, futile, and forlorn" and that would be just about right.

[Cha]

81. You can show that to Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders..

Bernie stands with the President on this "Enormously complicated issue".. as he calls it. He disagrees with staying out of ISIS like some around are clamoring on about.

As he stated it's an "International effort" and guess what.. "they have to put money in it too."

Hartman and he talked about one republiCon saying.. they'll "blast him if it doesn't work and ask why he didn't do it sooner if it does." Sounds like a familiar whine.

Senators Warren and Sanders are on board with the President..

FrodosPet http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5527989

[Scuba]

96. Nobody's right all the time.

[Cha]

100. That's exactly right.. like this "expert" in the OP.. I'm going with Bernie, Elizabeth, and the

President.

[ballyhoo]

97. Don't agree with him at all. We're

being conned and for us to accept this con after being conned so many times is ignominious.

[Cha]

101. "..being conned.." Oh, you mean like Putin is Conning all the internetz Warriors for him?

[ballyhoo]

102. There's roughly 40-45 of them here, including me, so I

have no idea what everyone thinks.

[Cha]

105. Get Your Red Hot Putin Propaganda Right Here..

[ballyhoo]

108. Yeah, I know who he is....

[IMG][/IMG]

[ctsnowman]

117. Exactly!

[littlemissmartypants]

29. Disaster capitalism. eom

[ballyhoo]

103. That is exactly what it is. In spades.

[Cha]

111. Senators Bernie Sanders and Warren agree with President Obama

Bernie stands with the President on this "Enormously complicated issue".. as he calls it. He disagrees with staying out of ISIS like some around are clamoring on about.

As he stated it's an "International effort" and guess what.. "they have to put money in it too."

Hartman and he talked about one republiCon saying.. they'll "blast him if it doesn't work and ask why he didn't do it sooner if it does." Sounds like a familiar whine.

Senators Warren and Sanders are on board with the President..

FrodosPet http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5527989

I think it's a little more complicated than "capitalism", Lmsp.

[littlemissmartypants]

114. Not impressed, cha. nt

[deutsey]

30. I've heard other ME experts debunk the hype growing around ISIS

They don't downplay the danger of this group, but they also encourage keeping the real threat in perspective.

[randome]

32. That applies to their tactical capabilities. Not to the atrocities they cause.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/09/don_t_watch_isis_s_murder_of_steven_sotloff_honor_him_by_remembering_the.html

Start with Monday’s testimony before the U.N. Human Rights Council. The documented incidents include 1,700 captives executed in Tikrit, Iraq, and 650 in Mosul, Iraq. Some 1,000 Turkmen massacred, including 100 children. More than 2,000 women and children kidnapped. “Systematic hunting of members of ethnic and religious groups.” Women raped and sold. Young boys executed. Girls enslaved for sexual abuse. Children recruited as suicide bombers. More than 1 million refugees, half of them kids.

You want to hide your head in the sand, fine. But I'm on board with stopping this shit.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[toby jo]

33. This is bad - send in the UN

We need to stop massaging the pentagon with every crisis that arises. It's global military bloat that's killing us.

[randome]

35. The U.N. has some resources but not on our scale.

I agree we spend an ungodly amount of money on the military but this expenditure is likely a drop in that huge bucket.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]

[VA_Jill]

36. Of course

It's the new "Commies under the bed". How many of us are old enough to remember THAT? Or at least Dylan's "Talking John Birch Blues":

I looked up in my chimney hole
Looked down in my toilet bowl
Just missed 'em…

[DallasNE]

37. I Have Long Thought

That people need to stop the testosterone injections because all we ever hear is from the penis gallery.

[J_J_]

38. Every American President in the past quarter century has now gone on television during prime time to

Tell the nation and the world that he has decided to bomb Iraq.


If that doesn't expose this whole load of BS, I don't know what will.

[bvf]

40. . . . ya *think*??

Excellent post--thanks, SomethingFishy.

[Atman]

42. Oh, who could have guessed?

A trumped up war promoted by the Military Industrial Complex? Say it ain't so!

[G_j]

43. K&R!

[deaniac21]

45. ISIL

seems to be pretty nice people to me and they deserve to have a country. They will help stabilize the region. They have to have something going or people wouldn't come from all over the world to join them.

[ballyhoo]

110. They are joined by those who hate the United States.

[G_j]

47. k

[L0oniX]

48. I give this one the Goebbels award...

[bobduca]

68. +1000

[Cha]

80. Bullshit.. you can give that to Senator Bernie Sanders, too..

Bernie stands with the President on this "Enormously complicated issue".. as he calls it. He disagrees with staying out of ISIS like some around are clamoring on about.

As he stated it's an "International effort" and guess what.. "they have to put money in it too."

Hartman and he talked about one republiCon saying.. they'll "blast him if it doesn't work and ask why he didn't do it sooner if it does." Sounds like a familiar whine.

Senators Warren and Sanders are on board with the President..

FrodosPet http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5527989

[Vattel]

88. who cares if Sanders and Warren are on board?

They are not infallible.

[ballyhoo]

109. [phone]

[roamer65]

54. Let the Iranians and Saudis solve the problem.

Either through talks or war. We need to butt out.

[FrodosPet]

59. Then we can become friends with whoever is left at the end!

Since we stayed out of it, they will start to like us.

[pampango]

55. Not a threat to the US. At least certainly not now. They are a threat to women, gay & Shiite humans

who were not born in the USA.

We can certainly ignore them. They are not threat to us personally or nationally.

ISIS is not coming for us,
they are coming for Iraqi and Syrian women,
they are coming for Iraqi and Syrian gays,
they are coming for Iraqi and Syrian Shiites,
they are coming for Iraqi and Syrian minority religions,
they are not coming for us.

[FrodosPet]

58. Too bad. So sad.

When in Rome (I mean Mosul), do as the Romans do. Start praising Allah as hard as you can, hide as much as you can, run as fast as you can, and hope you get lucky.

[blkmusclmachine]

61. No sh!t, Sherlock! But the MIC must be fed. And it's very, very HUNGRY!!!

War = Death = Profits

[99Forever]

65. As Einstein so eloquently said...

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

The War Machine demands blood and treasure and will NEVER stop finding the next "worst boogeyman EVER" and pounding the war drum.

[Raven]

66. Bookmarked for later

Thanks.

[GummyBearz]

72. yea

I'm sure James Foley would agree with you

[SomethingFishy]

73. What a brilliant comeback! Seriously, with forward thinking like that

it's amazing we are losing the War On Terrorism!

And it wasn't me that made the claims. It was Obama's counterterrorism experts. But what do they know, they are only in possession of all the classified data. Where as you have your chair and your PC and the internet.

[GummyBearz]

86. Sure

Sure hit a nerve with that simple statement I see. Btw, if Obama's experts dont consider IS a threat, why is Obama building a coalition to go bomb them? hurrrrr...

[SomethingFishy]

94. Wow... yeah you hit that nerve people do

when they have no idea what they are talking about but continue to flap their gums.

If you need me to explain how politics works and how there is an election coming up and how Democrats can't afford to look weak then you best do some research before you ask me another question you should already know the answer to.

Have a nice day.

[GummyBearz]

95. Great point

Great reasoning... We have an election coming up, so we better fucking bomb someone to rally support!! Bush would be proud

[maddiemom]

115. Haskell Wexler interview

Seems you haven't see Foley's interview with Haskell Wexler from a few years back. Check it out: more food for thought.

[marmar]

74. Does he mean the smoking gun won't come in the form of a mushroom cloud?

Why that just can't be true.

[U4ikLefty]

75. But they took babies out of the incubators!!!

Oh wait

[Douglas Carpenter]

76. knr

[KittyWampus]

77. He also praised the drone program in his talk.

Both Benjamin and Townsend praised the drone program, noting that drone strikes had been highly precise and vital in taking out terrorist leadership.

http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/09/11/counterterrorism-experts-debate-isis-threat-foreign-policy

I thought it pretty clear ISIL is seen as a regional threat for now.

Last Edit- wouldn't be nice if Saudis etc stepped up and took care of this on their own?

[Cha]

79. The "Experts" Praised the Drone Program.. well the OP should love that.

[Aerows]

91. Why would the Saudis take care of the problem

that they caused when they can just get us to do it for them?

If we wanted to destabilize the area we ought to just send in the Ferguson police department. Keep the military at home, send in the police. If that doesn't scare the shit out of terrorists, nothing will.

[suffragette]

119. Some days, it seems like we've become the Saudi's adjunct army

Deploying when, where and how they decide.

[Cha]

78. Senator Sanders disagrees..

Bernie stands with the President on this "Enormously complicated issue".. as he calls it. He disagrees with staying out of ISIS like some around are clamoring on about.

As he stated it's an "International effort" and guess what.. "they have to put money in it too."

Hartman and he talked about one republiCon saying.. they'll "blast him if it doesn't work and ask why he didn't do it sooner if it does." Sounds like a familiar whine.

Senators Warren and Sanders are on board with the President..

FrodosPet http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5527989

[Vattel]

89. News flash: Sanders and Warren not infallible!

[greytdemocrat]

83. I agree

Something is "a farce".

[bobGandolf]

85. Iraq Invasion Part 2

The ingredients are all the same:

Isis, threat to civilized, and uncivilized world
Invasion of U.S. imminent
Promises of strong international support
U.S. will pay all participating countries

[DCBob]

90. Tell that to the folks in Mosul.

[Aerows]

92. Threaten to send in the police.

If Barney Fife behind the wheel of an MRAP doesn't scare the ever living crap out of them, nothing will.

[AnalystInParadise]

99. Why is it our business

what happens in Mosul. I did my time there, I have no wish to see any American waste another drop of blood for it.

[DCBob]

116. I was replying to the subject of the op that the threat of ISIS is a "farce".

Its clearly not a farce.

[99Forever]

93. Lying to us, always, is the new normal.

I had hoped that it would have changed with the Democratic victory in 2008 or even 2012, but the War Machine demands to be fed.

It doesn't have to be like this.

[nikto]

98. ISIS is 878,000 times worse than Hitler

That's a lot.

[lob1]

104. K&R.

[john kale]

106. Groundhog's Day.

On steroids.

[Amonester]

120. It's a farce because they all wear similar Halloween costumes

So these comic yahoo's won't know what hit them went their apocalypse will be served to some of them

[J_J_]

122. this needs a

kick