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Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:35 PM Sep 2014

A Woman Told Her Boss About A Devastating Cancer Diagnosis. He Responded By Firing Her



Pennsylvania community is rallying around a woman who was fired from her job at an oral surgeon's office following her diagnosis with cancer.

Carol Jumper, who lives in Hopewell Township, Pennsylvania, was diagnosed with cancer impacting her pancreas, liver and ovaries in August. According to her fiancee, Dennis Smerigan, Jumper received a letter from her boss, Dr. George Visnich, in which the oral surgeon said he was laying her off without compensation. Raging Chicken Press published the letter on Sunday.

"The symptoms of the disease, the pain medications you will need and the side effects of the chemotherapy will be significant and distracting,” reads the handwritten note, which bears Visnich's letterhead. "You will not be able to function in my office at the level required while battling for your life. Because of this, I am laying you off without pay as of August 11, 2014."

<...>

Smerigan told the Beaver Countian that his fiancee worked for Visnich for more than 12 years.

"He didn’t even call her, he hasn’t even called her once since she got sick," Smerigan said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/11/woman-laid-off-cancer_n_5806194.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
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A Woman Told Her Boss About A Devastating Cancer Diagnosis. He Responded By Firing Her (Original Post) Cali_Democrat Sep 2014 OP
God's Will. I'm sure the doc is very devout. nt valerief Sep 2014 #1
Do you have any evidence to support this? philosslayer Sep 2014 #18
Sarcasm? NT tooeyeten Sep 2014 #24
In his letter to her, he says that his "thoughts and prayers" are with her. yardwork Sep 2014 #25
God told me. nt valerief Sep 2014 #45
This is being reported elsewhere. The doctor said that Roselma Sep 2014 #2
based on the letter in post #3, the Doc surely doesn't sound very sympathetic rurallib Sep 2014 #7
actually, the content and the fact that it was written bolsters his story. unblock Sep 2014 #26
Any employer having that discussion could be brought up on collusion charges to defraud. Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #35
i don't see that happening for several reasons. unblock Sep 2014 #41
Actually, it reads exactly like the kind of letter an employer writes to cover their own ass kcr Sep 2014 #48
does he have at least 15 employees? unblock Sep 2014 #50
I have no idea kcr Sep 2014 #51
to me it's not the letter but the apparent lack of face-to-face communication that's damning unblock Sep 2014 #59
Yes. The whole thing is just horrible. kcr Sep 2014 #62
Laying off ... Firing ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #32
Being laid off and being fired do make a difference. whopis01 Sep 2014 #39
False information? ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #42
I don't disagree about being terminated for medical reasons whopis01 Sep 2014 #44
Okay. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #46
+1 nt Live and Learn Sep 2014 #70
But wouldn't he have discussed this with her first? daredtowork Sep 2014 #67
WTF! sheshe2 Sep 2014 #3
And people hate lawyers? 12 years and nothing but a big ol FU! If there was a God the Dustlawyer Sep 2014 #11
It looks like he is trying to get her full disability and full benefits. w4rma Sep 2014 #33
he's laying her off right now, with no pay to help her out? CreekDog Sep 2014 #79
Paging Social media, paging social media. Asshole "Dr." Visnich needs some attention. n/t FSogol Sep 2014 #4
He should have signed his handwritten note, "Coldly," NJCher Sep 2014 #8
He signs "As Always". Is he always that vile? NT No Vested Interest Sep 2014 #5
Unfuckingbelievable. And he claims he did it for her own good. SunSeeker Sep 2014 #6
It is indeed a very cruel world NJCher Sep 2014 #9
Thanks. I was very lucky. SunSeeker Sep 2014 #16
I was let go when I was a young pup. My employer wrote me a note almost like that. LiberalArkie Sep 2014 #12
Did he say you were physically incapable of work like the dentist did? SunSeeker Sep 2014 #13
In all of the 4 states that I have lived, that's not true ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #34
Yep. Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #36
Good to hear. But what about the job search requirement? SunSeeker Sep 2014 #37
The job search requirement is suspended with a medical showing. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #40
But you still have to be "able to work" to collect unemployment. SunSeeker Sep 2014 #47
Okay. eom 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #55
And it may be two or three years daredtowork Sep 2014 #69
Exactly. SunSeeker Sep 2014 #81
Oh and btw NJCher Sep 2014 #10
I remember when ... deafskeptic Sep 2014 #14
I hope she checks the employment law in Pennsylvania dflprincess Sep 2014 #15
Pennsylvania is a "At Will" state happyslug Sep 2014 #21
Would not the Americans with Disability Act on 1992 have input on this? Douglas Carpenter Sep 2014 #17
That is enforced by the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission. happyslug Sep 2014 #20
ADA only applies to employers with at least 15 employees dflprincess Sep 2014 #23
Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #43
How many people does he employ? lonestarnot Sep 2014 #84
You have a point ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #86
Oh you figured this one out. lonestarnot Sep 2014 #88
She should apply for UNEMPLOYMENT and Disability. happyslug Sep 2014 #19
But Disability Takes A REALLY Long Time ProfessorGAC Sep 2014 #64
I'm going to go out on a limb here ohnoyoudidnt Sep 2014 #22
Activism locally should put him in his place, out of his office! One good turn you know.... TheNutcracker Sep 2014 #28
Sadly, this is not surprising anymore in America AZ Progressive Sep 2014 #27
This is why volunteerism and good will can't provide a safety net daredtowork Sep 2014 #29
In America nowadays, people are expendable AZ Progressive Sep 2014 #30
Thoughts and prayers? I'd rather a job with pay, Doc. WinkyDink Sep 2014 #31
I hope all his patients boycott his practice malaise Sep 2014 #38
NOT TRUE Scout Sep 2014 #49
Well, that's according to the doctor kcr Sep 2014 #52
did you actually read the article? Scout Sep 2014 #53
Yes. That's the doctor denying it. So? kcr Sep 2014 #54
were there other people quoted in the article? Scout Sep 2014 #56
But he did fire her kcr Sep 2014 #71
It says her friend posted it online - did she have permission? sammytko Sep 2014 #68
Exactly. This friend's opinion isn't evidence of anything. kcr Sep 2014 #72
I agree. I think he was trying to help her get Unemployment Compensation. Sheldon Cooper Sep 2014 #63
In other words TM99 Sep 2014 #65
not sure what the uproar is about. frankieallen Sep 2014 #57
I'm interested what sort of assistance you think she will be eligible for daredtowork Sep 2014 #66
if you do it right the first time, you shouldn't have a problem sammytko Sep 2014 #73
If you're an SS Judge that gets cancer then you may have a shot then! daredtowork Sep 2014 #74
Oh, it's just that easy! kcr Sep 2014 #75
Just telling y'all how it is done sammytko Sep 2014 #76
Okee dokee n/t kcr Sep 2014 #77
"she doesn't want this blown out of proportion" Enrique Sep 2014 #58
I suspect this may be another SJW fail snooper2 Sep 2014 #60
Seriously, what the fuck is happening in this country? Initech Sep 2014 #61
his online review have taken a major hit Liberal_in_LA Sep 2014 #78
I know a woman who was fired from Domincan Santa Cruz Hospital AtomicKitten Sep 2014 #80
I was at Dominican in May... NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #82
missed me by 10 years AtomicKitten Sep 2014 #83
Love it! NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #87
Yeah! lonestarnot Sep 2014 #85

yardwork

(61,408 posts)
25. In his letter to her, he says that his "thoughts and prayers" are with her.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:44 PM
Sep 2014

See the photo of the letter downthread.

Roselma

(540 posts)
2. This is being reported elsewhere. The doctor said that
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:50 PM
Sep 2014

he was laying her off (not firing her) because that way, she could get unemployment insurance and eventually full disability if things don't work out well with her treatment. In some cases, you have to show you are unemployable in your career field to get disability. Some employer disability plans require that the employee be unable to work in order to receive the long-term disability payments. The doctor also said that he told her that he'd hire her back when her treatment is complete. That said, it sounds like the nurse took this another way based upon how it is being reported in the news. Reading that letter, it does seem like he is jettisoning her in a cold-hearted manner. Also, based upon the news story at Huffington Post, it sounds pretty bad for the nurse. If the pancreas, liver and ovaries are "impacted" (I assume that cancer is found in all of them), her likelihood of survival is not high.

rurallib

(62,342 posts)
7. based on the letter in post #3, the Doc surely doesn't sound very sympathetic
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:31 PM
Sep 2014

I would have taken it the way she did.

I would have a hard time taking my teeth to that guy.

unblock

(51,973 posts)
26. actually, the content and the fact that it was written bolsters his story.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:55 PM
Sep 2014

it reads exactly like the kind of letter you would want from your employer for a successful disability claim.

that said, any employer with even the tiniest heart would have met face-to-face and explained this to her!

unblock

(51,973 posts)
41. i don't see that happening for several reasons.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 08:19 AM
Sep 2014

first, there's no evidence; the only ones privy to the conversation would be the defendants.

second, i don't think the employer believes there's any fraud at all. if he thought she could do the job, then why wouldn't he have just kept her on?

now, if he *did* in fact keep her on, and wrote that letter anyway, *then* there might be a fraud problem.

just having a conversation, expressing tons of praise, appreciation, and sympathy, and explaining that he's very sad and sorry he has to let her go temporarily because the treatment will interfere with her job performance but here, this letter should help with a disability claim -- there's no fraud in that at all.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
48. Actually, it reads exactly like the kind of letter an employer writes to cover their own ass
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 01:39 PM
Sep 2014

So they don't get sued for violating ADA.

unblock

(51,973 posts)
50. does he have at least 15 employees?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 01:50 PM
Sep 2014

if not, the ada doesn't apply, afaik.

if he does and she is protected by the ada, and his aim was to protect himself, then he should have added some explanation as to how no reasonable accommodation would work, e.g., for reasons x, y, and z, he couldn't possibly drop her down to part-time or let her schedule be flexible around her treatments, or shift her to work that was something, like just clerical work, that her treatment wouldn't interfere with.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
51. I have no idea
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 01:54 PM
Sep 2014

But the letter is so stilted in its writing, crammed full of all those facts. I don't doubt there's a copy of it somewhere and that it was written with specific legalities in mind to whip out when needed.

unblock

(51,973 posts)
59. to me it's not the letter but the apparent lack of face-to-face communication that's damning
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:23 PM
Sep 2014

i mean this is basic courtesy for anyone, let alone someone who has already just received some devastating news.

no one likes firing anyone (ok, a few assholes do), but if you have to do it, you have to do it the right way and put any bad feelings you might have aside because no matter how bad you feel about it, the person you're letting go is feeling at least 10 times worse.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
62. Yes. The whole thing is just horrible.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:35 PM
Sep 2014

I just mean that I don't buy the doctor's explanation for a minute. But I do suspect he wrote that letter the way he did for some weasel reason

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
32. Laying off ... Firing ...
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:51 PM
Sep 2014

a distinction without a difference. The ex-employee would have received U/C, however she separated from her employment. And the cancer diagnosis would mean she would get SSD.

Bottomline, the doctor, with that letter, guaranteed that he will pay her more in the lawsuit than he would have lost through her incapacitation, even if he had allowed her paid time off and hired a temp.

whopis01

(3,467 posts)
39. Being laid off and being fired do make a difference.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 06:37 AM
Sep 2014

Please be careful about spreading false information.

If you go to the Pennsylvania Unemployment Compensation web site (http://www.uc.pa.gov) the very first paragraph states "UC is money paid to people who have lost a job through no fault of their own." Note the section that reads "through no fault of their own"

Following the link to the "Eligibility" section you will find the following information:

UC is for people who lost a job because of something that wasn't their fault. If you're out of work because your employer had to make cutbacks, close an office, went out of business or something you couldn't control, it's possible that you will be eligible to collect UC.


Followed by this:

If you were fired from your company, you might not be able to collect UC.


Clearly the Pennsylvania Unemployment system makes a distinction between getting laid off and getting fired when it comes to UC.



 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
42. False information? ...
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 08:27 AM
Sep 2014

Equally as dangerous, is spreading information from a website, purposely written at the 8th grade level, as determinative as to one's rights.

25 years in HR, covering multiple jurisdictions/states (albeit PA wasn't one of them) informs me that being terminated by your employer because one is medically unable to perform the job they were hired for is widely ruled as "a no fault termination."

What the PA U/C hasn't included in its information is the phrase, "For Cause" ... which is the determinative factor in most (all) jurisdictions.

If one is initially denied, they are certain to prevail on appeal ... unless one works(ed) in Maine. http://www.bna.com/dol-finds-maine-governor-and-staff-intervened-in-state-unemployment-appeals/

whopis01

(3,467 posts)
44. I don't disagree about being terminated for medical reasons
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 08:48 AM
Sep 2014

And I realize that is the context in this case. However you made the blanket statement that laying off and firing was a distinction without a difference. That is simply not true.

Regarding the information from a website being written at an 8th grade level - I have no argument with your assessment of the quality of the information on the site. However, that is the official site for unemployment compensation in Pennsylvania. It is not just an info site - it is where you have to go to file for unemployment compensation. So while you might question the quality of the writing, I hardly think it is dangerous to spread information provided by the organization that will determine one's eligibility to receive UC.

Which brings me back to the main point in my previous post. It has been my experience, seeing many people go through this process, that making sure your wording lines up very well with what the UC department requires will make the process go much smoother. Saying that you were fired will start down a path where you are going to have to prove you weren't fired for cause whereas saying you were laid off won't raise the same flags.

Let me be clear - I don't disagree with anything you have said other than there is no difference between "laid off" and "fired". I just want to make sure others understand the importance of how they describe and document their situation when applying for benefits.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
67. But wouldn't he have discussed this with her first?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:56 PM
Sep 2014

This is pretty sound reasoning for the wording of the letter, but after working with her for 12 years, wouldn't he have explained the logic behind his choice of words?

It's true that disability needs need to hear the phrase "unable to work". Most of the delays and hair-tearing out comes from the failure of documentation to use that exact phrase on the one hand, and the qualms of average people with integrity who feel like crap and know that they'd be fired within the day from any job but still can't write the phrase "unable to work" if they can still lift a pencil. The system in the background here is too rigid and basically forces people to over-categorize themselves to get what they need.

Dustlawyer

(10,493 posts)
11. And people hate lawyers? 12 years and nothing but a big ol FU! If there was a God the
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:41 PM
Sep 2014

situation would be reversed.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
33. It looks like he is trying to get her full disability and full benefits.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:53 PM
Sep 2014

I can't see how that is a bad thing. She is going to need that time off to fight for her life and really shouldn't be distracted by work.

NJCher

(35,421 posts)
8. He should have signed his handwritten note, "Coldly,"
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:32 PM
Sep 2014
Paging social media....

Somehow I think this fool is going to get more than he bargained for.

I just love how he thanks for her for her time.



Cher

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
6. Unfuckingbelievable. And he claims he did it for her own good.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:27 PM
Sep 2014

He has the nerve to claim he did it for her own good so she can collect unemployment. She may qualify for unemployment, but as another commenter noted, to collect unemployment you must be healthy enough to work. So as long as she does her job searches and doesn't turn down any jobs because she is ill, she can collect unemployment.

She may qualify for Social Security Disability, but cancer treatment does not alone qualify you. As I learned when I had cancer, you have to prove your treatment will last over a year. I couldn't, so they said I didn't qualify. My treatment lasted exactly one year.

We really do allow barbaric treatment of workers.

NJCher

(35,421 posts)
9. It is indeed a very cruel world
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:35 PM
Sep 2014

That is outrageous that you were denied because you could not prove your treatment would last over a year. Barbaric is a good word for it.

I am sorry you had to go through that.



Cher

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
16. Thanks. I was very lucky.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:00 PM
Sep 2014

I survived. Plus I got tons of support from my co-workers, family and friends. So lucky. I tear up when I think of all the kindnesses and donations they gave me. Support for people with serious illness should not be a matter of luck.

LiberalArkie

(15,686 posts)
12. I was let go when I was a young pup. My employer wrote me a note almost like that.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:48 PM
Sep 2014

But he did it in such a way that I could claim full unemployment and other benefits. The place I woked was run by the Dad and his 3 sons. The dad had 51% of the business. I got caught in between the 3 sons and the dad had to let me go.

To me the letter seemed to be written so that the lady could get all the benefits she could get.
from the doctors point of view.


SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
13. Did he say you were physically incapable of work like the dentist did?
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:54 PM
Sep 2014

Seems to me that statement might disqualify her for unemployment because you have to be able to work to get unemployment.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
34. In all of the 4 states that I have lived, that's not true ...
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:54 PM
Sep 2014

if you lose your job for medical reasons, you will collect U/C.

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
37. Good to hear. But what about the job search requirement?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:32 AM
Sep 2014

Don't you have to show you're looking and interviewing?

And if you're unable to work, can you still collect unemployment compensation?

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
47. But you still have to be "able to work" to collect unemployment.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 01:36 PM
Sep 2014
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/collecting-unemployment-are-you-able-32445.html

And this dentist didn’t just say he was laying her off, he said she was unable to work. Seems to me that the unemployment office may use that against her.

I'd love a link that says you are excused from the job search requirements if you make a medical showing.

In CA, you must meet eligibility requirements each week you claim unemployment, including being "physically able to work."
http://www.edd.ca.gov/Unemployment/Eligibility.htm

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
69. And it may be two or three years
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:05 PM
Sep 2014

by the time they get through your appeals and approve your disability for lasting over a year.

You may have become homeless in the meantime. If you retained a lawyer out of desperation, he or she will get part of the funds. If you had to live in welfare during that time, you may have to pay that welfare back. (Where I live, welfare is a "loan&quot .

You might think there are some safety nets in place to assist you if you get cancer, but actually it's just a lurking tidal wave of bureaucracy that's hoping to kill you off faster before you're any further burden on the State.

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
81. Exactly.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 05:44 PM
Sep 2014

And from the description of her diagnosis, it doesn't sound like she will have 3 years, sadly.

NJCher

(35,421 posts)
10. Oh and btw
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:36 PM
Sep 2014

Oral surgeons don't exactly work for peanuts.

I happened to have a project where I became familiar with the earnings of oral surgeons. Freaking incredible what they make.



Cher

deafskeptic

(463 posts)
14. I remember when ...
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:56 PM
Sep 2014

a co-worker of mine got dismissed for missing too many days as a result of kidney disease. On top of it, she had minimum wages and she had kids dependant on her and her sister. Something stinks here.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
15. I hope she checks the employment law in Pennsylvania
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 09:58 PM
Sep 2014

because she may have a heck of a lawsuit.

And, if there are more the 15 people employed in the office, she may be able to go after him using the ADA.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
21. Pennsylvania is a "At Will" state
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:16 PM
Sep 2014

Thus, unless she comes under a Federal or State Discrimination law she has no grounds to sue.

Now, this is Disability Discrimination for having a life threatening disease is a disability, Further down someone mentions the Federal Law against firing someone with Cancer which would give her grounds to sue (but generally just for lost wages). She should file with the PEnnsylvania Human Relations Commission who enforces discrimination laws in Pennsylvania.

http://www.phrc.state.pa.us/

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
17. Would not the Americans with Disability Act on 1992 have input on this?
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:04 PM
Sep 2014

This from the article:

Current and recovering cancer patients are protected against job discrimination under the Americans with Disabilities Act so long as the individual is able to perform the job's essential functions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/11/woman-laid-off-cancer_n_5806194.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
23. ADA only applies to employers with at least 15 employees
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:25 PM
Sep 2014

most dental offices are smaller - but it's not impossible this guy had a larger staff.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
43. Yep ...
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 08:32 AM
Sep 2014

and the good doctor's letter will be Exhibit A in the hearing, should she choose to pursue it.

I suspect, although attorneys are ethically precluded from directly soliciting, she and family members will soon be finding business cards stuck under they wiper blades.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
19. She should apply for UNEMPLOYMENT and Disability.
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:11 PM
Sep 2014

Yes, you can get BOTH at the same time, if you meet the requirements of both.

Under Pennsylvania Unemployment Law, all she has to show is that is was Fired and is "Ready, Willing and able" to work. Thus even PART time work Counts if you can do the work. This also includes ANY work you can do, even if it was NOT work you did in the past (i.e. Unless there is MEDICAL evidence that you can NOT do any work, as long as you CLAIM you can do some work, you are eligible for Unemployment).

Please note, Pennsylvania is considered one of the more liberal states when it comes to granting unemployment. Other states have different and in many cases harsher rules.

Social Security Disability uses a five step test process.
1. Are you EARNING more then $1001 a month? If yes, you are NOT disabled. If NO go to Step 2.
2. Do you suffer from a disability that affects your day to day activities? This includes anything more then a hang nail, this lady has something "severe" and survives this test.
3. Do you meet a listing? Social Security has taken administrative knowledges of diseases that make someone disable, these are referred to as "Listings". If you meet a listing to the extent in the listing you are disabled, if not you go to step 4

There are listings for Cancers and if she meets the requirements of any of the listings for Cancer she is eligible for Social Security Disability. I suspect she does meet a listing and will win at Step 3, but if she does NOT meet a listing she goes to step 4.

Step 4 - Can you do past relevant work? Her Employer said no when he fired her. It is still a question up to Social Security to decide but if Social Security decides she CAN do that TYPE of work, she is NOT disabled, but if she is can NOT she goes to Step 5.

Step 5 - Are there jobs that exist in the National Economy you can do? Social Security only considers FULL TIME positions. If it is reported that she will miss more then one day of work a month on a constant basis OR she will be off task 10% of the day over and above normal breaks OR what work she can do is less then 90% of a "Average Worker" then she is DISABLED. For Social Security will haire a "Vocation Expert" who will testify at trial that those three requirements are the basic requirements of ANY EMPLOYER.

Vocational Experts is someone with a PHd in vocational rehabilitation and thus know what is required by employers in the work place. Most come out of Workmen's Compensation law, but once in Social Security are much more liberal then when they are in Workmen's Compensation Law. They are NEVER used in Unemployment Insurance law.

Just pointing out she may be eligible for Unemployment AND Social Security at the same time. The requirements of both are DIFFERENT. Thus one may be NOT disabled for purposes of Unemployment Insurance (and thus ready, willing and able to work and thus eligible for Unemployment Insurance), AND also be disabled for Social Security Disability do to the fact they can NOT do full time employment.

She should apply FOR both and if denied appeal BOTH (and seek legal assistance for BOTH after she has filed the appeal, the appeal time periods for Unemployment is tight and strictly followed).

ProfessorGAC

(64,413 posts)
64. But Disability Takes A REALLY Long Time
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:39 PM
Sep 2014

The process is intentionally glacial to mitigate fraud. That punishes the honest, unfortunately.

My wife went through it. It took nearly 3 years. For a cancer patient, that might be 35 months too long.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
27. Sadly, this is not surprising anymore in America
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:04 PM
Sep 2014

Americans have become shockingly callous. This past economic downturn has shown me this the hard way.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
29. This is why volunteerism and good will can't provide a safety net
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:28 PM
Sep 2014

Let's face it - at the individual level, a lot of people do crappy things to other people, and there's not a magical "community" there picking up the slack.

Over the last few decades families have grown smaller and more fragmented. It has always been unfair to expect women to provide the free labor of "care" for any one gets thrown under the bus. Yet that's what we, as a society - by our omission to do anything else - are expecting: somehow the "family" will be there to rescue someone disabled and left without resources.

This woman was profoundly lucky in that her community actually gave a damn and seems to be rallying. These days such things seem barely worth a tweet. I've been going suffering for a couple weeks because I was wrongly thrown of Medi-Cal by a California welfare policy that's constructed to punish people for working. My last post about it here got all of 4 recs on DU. Nothing I've done or any support anyone has shown for me has actually resorted in "action" in the form of my political "representatives" getting off their butts or the situation actually being fixed.

But this is just a case of a woman who successfully cried out, and a woman who unsuccessfully cried out. What about all the people who aren't being heard, don't know where to cry out, or are too confused/stress/in pain to do anything? My situation made me realize just how much of that has been going on - and how the government uses that to *weed people off the rolls* instead of viewing that as an encroaching crisis. This is a very large slow boil under the pot.

See this article about how California enables this sort of "weeding out" and looks the other way, despite our supposed "mandated" coverage: http://centerforhealthreporting.org/article/medi-cal-renewals-another-backlog-horizon

In theory people suddenly cut off from Medi-Cal can go to the County Hospital in case of emergency (...caused by the way they were suddenly cut off from controlled substance medications...) but if they don't have a cash income for bus money and "medical rides" come from Medi-Cal, how are they supposed to get to the County Hospital - teleportation?

It will be interesting to see if this "transient's" death will be blamed on "lifestyle choice" drugs rather than the inhumane, and, indeed deadly, circumstances a person in ends up in once they lose their housing in the Oakland area: http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/no-signs-foul-play-was-involved-man-found-dead-ber/nhKdb/

Sorry for the thread hijack. I guess it bothers me that every "feel good because the community rose in support occasion" is matched by so many "the community didn't give a damn" occasions: and the former "feel good" occasion wouldn't even be necessary if we had a working safety net in the first place.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
30. In America nowadays, people are expendable
Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:32 PM
Sep 2014

If it doesn't fit your ideals, throw it away! Your partner doesn't fit your needs anymore, throw them away and get a new one! If your friend is down on their luck and being negative, throw them away and get positive friends!

It strikes me that so many people don't realize just how callous and sociopathic that kind of thinking is.

Scout

(8,624 posts)
49. NOT TRUE
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 01:49 PM
Sep 2014

he laid her off so that she COULD COLLECT UNEMPLOYMENT during treatment
==============================
Layoff letter to Hopewell woman with cancer sparks online outrage
Timesonline

Layoff letter to Hopewell woman with cancer sparks online outrage
By Jenny Wagner jwagner@timesonline.com | Posted 17 hours ago

HOPEWELL TWP. — A letter posted this week on social media went viral and prompted outrage at a Beaver County oral surgeon who laid off a longtime employee after she was diagnosed with cancer.

But friends of the Hopewell Township woman, Carol Jumper, announced Wednesday that she wants the firestorm to die down, and an attorney for Dr. George Visnich said the matter was misunderstood from the beginning.

Jumper, 51, worked for Visnich for 12 years until last month, when she began having stomach pains and learned she had cancer affecting her pancreas, liver and ovaries, her friend John Barkovich said.

Visnich sent Jumper a letter — posted online by her friend Rose Lerini — stating, “You are currently engaged in a battle against cancer that will be demanding physically, mentally, and emotionally. … You will not be able to function in my office at the level required while battling for your life. Because of this, I am laying you off without pay as of August 11, 2014.

“Our thoughts and prayers are with you as you fight this horrible disease,” the letter continued.

Blog entries, comments and social media posts have taken aim at Visnich, who has offices in Hopewell and Chippewa townships and New Castle. But attorney Larry Kelly, who represents the Visnich family, said what Visnich did was a “humanitarian thing.”

Kelly said Visnich placed Jumper on layoff status so she could collect unemployment compensation during her treatment, “with the understanding that when she is feeling better, she can come back to work.”

Visnich did not contest Jumper’s claim for unemployment benefits, Kelly explained. “That’s the reason the letter was written.”

The attention the letter has caused has been “very troubling” for Visnich, Kelly said.

“Very disappointing, in that he’s trying to help this woman and he’s made out to be a villain,” Kelly said.

Barkovich said Jumper’s family and friends also have been shocked by how fast the letter has spread, but he added that Jumper “doesn’t have time for it.

“I spoke with Carol today, and she wants to diffuse it,” Barkovich said, noting that she was not feeling well after a treatment on Tuesday. “She doesn’t care about the doctor. She’s in a fight for her life, and she doesn’t want this blown out of proportion.”

Instead, Barkovich and others are asking the public to support Jumper at several upcoming events to raise money to help cover her medical expenses.

The group has formed a Facebook group called “Bumper’s Buddies,” where they are selling T-shirts and will share updates on her condition. They have organized a golf outing at The Club at Shadow Lakes in Hopewell beginning at 10 a.m. Oct. 4, followed by a spaghetti dinner fundraiser from 3 to 7 p.m. at the Aliquippa Croatian Center, 2365 Concord St., and a silent auction.

For dinner tickets, visit the Croatian center or the Celtic-Reds Athletic Club, 2205 Sheffield Ave., Aliquippa. To sign up for the golf outing, visit the Celtic-Reds club or call Barkovich at 724-650-6366.

Barkovich said personal checks can be made out to Carol Jumper and sent to 102 Oak Drive, Aliquippa, PA 15001.

“She’s a good lady, and we’re just doing what we can to help her out,” Barkovich said.

====================================
http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/pennsylvania/mc-pa-cancer-layoff-letter-20140911-story.html
http://www.timesonline.com/healthandwellness/layoff-letter-to-hopewell-woman-with-cancer-sparks-online-outrage/article_b9e6b7f8-b5e7-5d00-b233-52acf29735d0.html

Scout

(8,624 posts)
53. did you actually read the article?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:05 PM
Sep 2014
Kelly said Visnich placed Jumper on layoff status so she could collect unemployment compensation during her treatment, “with the understanding that when she is feeling better, she can come back to work.”

Visnich did not contest Jumper’s claim for unemployment benefits, Kelly explained. “That’s the reason the letter was written.”

The attention the letter has caused has been “very troubling” for Visnich, Kelly said.

“Very disappointing, in that he’s trying to help this woman and he’s made out to be a villain,” Kelly said."


kcr

(15,300 posts)
54. Yes. That's the doctor denying it. So?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:10 PM
Sep 2014
Or rather, he's saying he did it to help her. Sorry, but color me not impressed.

Scout

(8,624 posts)
56. were there other people quoted in the article?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:14 PM
Sep 2014

did he contest her claim for unemployment?

color me not impressed with your reading ability and comprehension

how would you have helped her? fire her?

sammytko

(2,480 posts)
68. It says her friend posted it online - did she have permission?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:02 PM
Sep 2014

My sister started a fund for my other sister when her husband died. Widowed sister was pissed. She went and shut it down. Never told her to do such a thing.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
72. Exactly. This friend's opinion isn't evidence of anything.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:10 PM
Sep 2014

Her husband surely doesn't seem happy with the doctor.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
63. I agree. I think he was trying to help her get Unemployment Compensation.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:37 PM
Sep 2014

The wording of the letter tells the story:

You will not be able to function in my office at the level required
She will not have the physical, mental, and emotional skills to meet the basic requirements of the job and so therefore has to be laid off. This is the kind of language that qualifies one for UC benefits.
 

TM99

(8,352 posts)
65. In other words
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:42 PM
Sep 2014

another damned social media 'misunderstanding' fueled by projection and emotionality instead of the actual facts at hand.

Kinda sounds like DU on a bad day!

 

frankieallen

(583 posts)
57. not sure what the uproar is about.
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:15 PM
Sep 2014

He is doing her a favor. Based on the description of the disease, she needs to concentrate on her health, not working at her job.
She is going to be extremely sick, very soon, and should be home resting and spending time with family. She will be eligible for all kinds of assistance while she goes through this.
I fell terrible for this poor woman, I hope she get's well and lives a long life, plenty of time for working then.

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
66. I'm interested what sort of assistance you think she will be eligible for
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:46 PM
Sep 2014

She can apply for SSI/SSDI now...but she will probably be denied the first couple of times, and the process will take two years or more unless she has a lawyer. If she gets the lawyer, the lawyer will help him/herself to a good portion of that money, which is not generous in the first place. There is not "all kinds of assistance" out there, and trying to get it is so demoralizing and stressful (and you are deliberately pushed toward homelessness trying to get it in order to "weed out" people who "don't really need it&quot that it's likely to EXACERBATE her medical condition and make her recovery longer, if not kill her. The stress it will place on her family relationships may mean those will fall away: so much for the narrative of the "support group" and/or the "community" being there in her time of need.

This comment is perpetuating an insidious lie. It's the same thing that happens when businesses try to pass sit/lie sidewalk lies to get homeless people off the street and insinuate there are "all kinds of assistance" that "those people" could be getting once they are out of sight and out of mind.

You don't know anything about it.

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/social-security-denies-gregor-samsas-disability-claim

sammytko

(2,480 posts)
73. if you do it right the first time, you shouldn't have a problem
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:21 PM
Sep 2014

My constitutional law class instructor was a SS judge in "real life".

He said they stuck to the regs. People were denied because they didn't fulfill the requirements of the regs. Same can be said for VA disability. My BIL whined because he couldn't get upgraded. I took his paperwork, put his claim into words that would meet the criteria for his conditions and BAM - 100%!

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)
74. If you're an SS Judge that gets cancer then you may have a shot then!
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:36 PM
Sep 2014

Most people don't have a very detailed knowledge of the "regs", and they are still trying to fill out the paperwork in ways that fit with their human view of the world - re: "I might be able to do this, but not that"....my pain is 8 on this day, a 3 that day...well, it's complicated...

Often people are poor by the time they get to disability, and even if they are savvy enough to look for a lawyer up front, it may not be easy unless they can present a "slam dunk" case. What about the case where they have been in and out of work for decades precisely because they were disabled, only seen in free clinics, without much of a medical record at all?

Perhaps many of these claims would be accepted up front, saving people from months of torture if they were put into the "right words": it's just wrong to expect people to know these "right words" and to expect people to have lawyers to get it done for them.

kcr

(15,300 posts)
75. Oh, it's just that easy!
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:40 PM
Sep 2014

If only I could remember where I put my constitutional law class instructor... I know I had it somewhere...

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
58. "she doesn't want this blown out of proportion"
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:17 PM
Sep 2014

good luck with that, Carol, and good luck with your treatment

“I spoke with Carol today, and she wants to diffuse it,” Barkovich said, noting that she was not feeling well after a treatment on Tuesday. “She doesn’t care about the doctor. She’s in a fight for her life, and she doesn’t want this blown out of proportion.”

Initech

(99,909 posts)
61. Seriously, what the fuck is happening in this country?
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 02:27 PM
Sep 2014

We have fucking tanks showing up at colleges, people are getting killed by police for simply walking down the streets, police have access to decommissioned military equipment (and are not afraid to use it), people are getting fired or demoted for simply being sick... What the fuck is happening???

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
78. his online review have taken a major hit
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:55 PM
Sep 2014
https://plus.google.com/109555087028356521540/about?gl=us&hl=en

Anthony Kozol
reviewed in the last week
Just when I think I've seen and read stories exposing the lowest forms of human excrement, along comes someone like you to revive my faith that there is always someone worse in existence. I will find great comfort in watching the doors of your business close for good once the implications of your actions have come full circle. And when I read the inevitable story of the aftermath of your despicable and cowardly decision to lay off a loyal employee of 12 years battling for her life, I will be equally delighted. May God have mercy on your soul. Wait, never mind, you have to possess a soul before mercy can be bestowed up it....
• • •
 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
80. I know a woman who was fired from Domincan Santa Cruz Hospital
Fri Sep 12, 2014, 04:22 PM
Sep 2014

when she revealed to them her breast cancer diagnosis. It cost the hospital $40K in settlement.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
82. I was at Dominican in May...
Sat Sep 13, 2014, 10:58 PM
Sep 2014

ER, then flown to Stanford for brain surgery.

If you live there maybe we can meet up one day!

Sorry for your friend, glad she won her case but sad if she had to get a lawyer, etc.,

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
83. missed me by 10 years
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 12:56 AM
Sep 2014

Sounds like yours was a hell of a head injury. Hope that all turned out well.

I lived in Santa Cruz for 15 years and then moved up to San Francisco and have lived here for 10 years. If you're planning to be in the neighborhood, PM me and we'll meet up. That would be fun. Cheers.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
87. Love it!
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 12:12 PM
Sep 2014

I'll remember that, I'm in the city often and especially when it's for a multi-day event I've got time to hang out.


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