Before we invaded: ZERO al-Qaeda in Iraq, now 20,000 to 31,000. Strong evidence that our war

[grahamhgreen]

strategy creates more terror than it destroys.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/world/meast/isis-syria-iraq/index.html

[NYC_SKP]

1. It's Bush Cheney's War. Not "our" war, but our responsibility.

Of course, we're left to clean up after their mess.

Bush, Cheney, and those who voted for it.

I know I didn't.

But now here we are.

[woo me with science]

2. K&R

[arcane1]

3. "Mission Accomplished" indeed.

Another flood of cash to the MIC. How convenient.

Surely higher oil prices. How convenient.

Division and distraction in the "homeland" in an election year. How convenient.

Such astonishing coincidences!

[truedelphi]

4. Ssh - this is not about truth telling.

Similar post I made earlier today (And that you commented on, in supportive fashion) has been hidden by jury decison for being over the top, rude insulting etc.

[grahamhgreen]

5. Are you serious? The artificial personas here are overwhelming!

[truedelphi]

10. PM sent. n/t

[malaise]

6. Wel if you want perpetual war and chaos

They're doing swimmingly.
We are the terror.

[grahamhgreen]

7. We are like the abusive dad, who, when the cops arrive, claims, "but I'm the only one who can fix it

[malaise]

8. You nailed it

and then he talks about 'values'.

[jeff47]

9. Well, if you have a time machine in your pocket, we can stop that from happening

Otherwise, we're stuck with what's happening today instead of what we should have done 12 years ago.

[grahamhgreen]

12. One can extrapolate that if we do the same now, as we did back then,

we'll create hundreds of thousands of terrorists in the next 12 years.

Maybe we should change our strategy?

[jeff47]

13. Only if everything is the same.

And it isn't.

ISIS's current position was created by de-Ba'athification. Sunnis were left with no power in Iraq, and the Shiites left running Iraq's government decided they'd get back at the Sunnis. Lacking alternatives, the Sunnis turned to ISIS.

ISIS's rhetoric and tactics aren't exactly making them a cause celebre in the Muslim world. Yes, they'll be able to attract the disaffected, but not support of other countries - even the Saudis are scared of them.

As a result, going after ISIS for their invasion of Iraq shouldn't produce the same result as us invading Iraq under false pretenses and then fucking up every thing we possibly could with the occupation in order to save troops to enact PNAC.

[grahamhgreen]

15. Going after ISIS could very well consolidate Sunni muslims against us. And the way we screw things

up, it likely will.

[jeff47]

16. Because the Saudis and Qatar and UAE don't give a good indication of how Sunnis feel about ISIS.

ETA: And we fucked up Iraq and Afghanistan because Cheney and the moron were trying to enact PNAC's plan. They needed to keep troops in reserve to invade all the other countries in the plan, so they didn't send enough to Afghanistan and Iraq. They also believed the PNAC's utter stupidity that the residents of these countries would think "Invasion and occupation by the US? Yay!!!".

ISIS is only liked by Iraqi and some Syrian Sunnis. The rest of the Sunnis are not exactly fans, since ISIS's stated goal is to kill them.

[grahamhgreen]

17. Their people have been sick of their brutal reqimes for a long time now. It's war, anything can

happen.

Unintended consequences are all we have gotten from our middle east turkey shoot.

[jeff47]

18. Copy-n-paste ETA from that post

And we fucked up Iraq and Afghanistan because Cheney and the moron were trying to enact PNAC's plan. They needed to keep troops in reserve to invade all the other countries in the plan, so they didn't send enough to Afghanistan and Iraq. They also believed the PNAC's utter stupidity that the residents of these countries would think "Invasion and occupation by the US? Yay!!!".

ISIS is only liked by Iraqi and some Syrian Sunnis. The rest of the Sunnis are not exactly fans, since ISIS's stated goal is to kill them.

[SummerSnow]

11. K&R

Seems some of our government officials don't realize that.

[JEB]

14. Our government is playing right into the terrorists' hand.

We keep pouring more treasure into the ME and that grows a bigger crop. Our elite desire endless war as that renders the consumer obsolete.

[G_j]

19. K&R!!

[Scuba]

20. K&R

[sendero]

21. Anyone who doesn't understand the basic fact..

.... that ISIL in Iraq is OUR DOING should recuse themselves from the discussion, they have nothing of value to add.