As a black woman, let me add a hearty FUCK YOU salute to Michael Moore!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

He made a fantastic movie called Fahrenheit 911 which I own about how the previous administration lied this country into a war but didn't capture or kill the mastermind behind the horrific events of that fateful day: OSAMA BIN LADEN.

Here we have the current administration led by the same black man that Moore insulted whose administration captured and killed said perpetrator.

And yet, Mr. Moore insults and offends, and I've heard no one here or on any liberal forum--nor Mr. Moore himself--utter the name OSAMA BIN LADEN.

SO FUCK YOU, MICHAEL MOORE. FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!

[sheshe2]

1. Brava Brava Brava

"SO FUCK YOU, MICHAEL MOORE. FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!"

Excellent! Thank you Liberal_Stalwart71.

[ucrdem]

4. Sounds like Michael didn't get that invite he was hoping for either.

Can't think why not.

[sheshe2]

8. Poor Mickie...

He use to stand for something, sadly no more, urcdem.

[ucrdem]

17. He's outclassed and he doesn't like it.

His shtick has always been to play the halfwit and then film his subjects condescending to him, so he can turn the tables and condescend to them, showing us how smart and lovable he is, miles ahead of the dinosaurs he makes his movies about. If the White House rejected his pitch, and I get the impression they did, that's probably why.

[billhicks76]

50. Ah...just read MM comment

Well I don't know about you all but I feel hoodwinked and like so many progressives realized the scam back in 2009. This has been over litigated here. Obama is just another front man for the war profiteers both abroad and at home he fights marijuana legalization while paying lip service to reducing mandatory minimums. The drug war should be over by now...private prisons fought etc. his justice dept and homeland security department has been waging war on Americans as much as Bush did. Obama reversed every promise and flip flopped on NSA, wiretapping and opposing war. He's obviously smoking cigars with Bush Sr just like the Clintons. It's very sad. Either they got to him early on with embarrassing photos, emails or texts that they leveraged or he was in on it from the beginning. The sad fact is that the intelligence agencies run our government now...not elected reps who are just frontmen now. Obama had done nothing to help change this. In fact he does everything he can to maintain the status quo. Hopefully he releases the torture report in full but he'll probably do what he always does to protect an election of Jeb Bush vs Hillary Clinton. We are a nation of weaklings.

[liberalmike27]

58. I join the disappointed

Most of us who voted for Obama, twice, thought he'd be more liberal--especially after he no longer had to get reelected again. He's been a sad disappointment, not a leader, a follower, one who reacts to others, worse reacts to the most vicious critics of the right, one who seems oblivious as to how to barter.

Moore is correct, as he's going to end up in the Clinton category, a big disappointment. That said, I get that he's faced a lot of opposition--his failures are rhetorical, and rhetoric is what could have gotten ever MORE Democrats elected, instead of losing seats--well, that, and giving the rich the biggest tax cut ever, in making the Inheritance Tax permanent.

It is a valid, non racial disappointment for me. I don't care what color he is, as he's following the modern neoliberal Democratic patter, which is going to kill us as a country, if it hasn't already.

[SidDithers]

109. ...

Sid

[treestar]

126. conspiracies everywhere!

[billhicks76]

191. Your Comment Is Laughable

You have obviously have never been in a courtroom. People who cling to the notion that conspiracies cannot or do not exist do not care about reality and are too fearful and overly concerned how they appear to others. Good luck with that in life.

[billhicks76]

192. Like Dittoheads and Bushites

We too have our own little army of close minded numbskulls.

[GummyBearz]

133. Yep

My thoughts exactly. To some though, he is infallible and they will pretend he had nothing to do with what you pointed out... because hey, he has a D next to his name! Go team go, nothing else matters!

[Rockyj]

170. Totally agree!

[sheshe2]

229. Already posted to you below!

Got it! I do, really, Obama SUCKS and is as bad or worse that Bush! Yup got it, no need to post to me anymore. And people tell me there is noooooo Obama hate here on DU.

Oh my bill, wow.

[billhicks76]

48. Full Of Crap

You guys are the lamest. You call yourselves liberals but act like Neocons. You can't con me. The war machine propaganda and all the dark $$$ behind it keeps on steamrolling. Bush and Cheney were alerted about 911 over a year in advance in did everything they could to make sure no one stopped it. Try focusing on that.

[sheshe2]

51. K, bill.

Not exactly sure where all your anger is coming from and why you are directing it at me. What does your post have to do with the OP?

Wow! You may want to rethink some of what you said here...

Full Of Crap

You guys are the lamest. You call yourselves liberals but act like Neocons. You can't con me. The war machine propaganda and all the dark $$$ behind it keeps on steamrolling. Bush and Cheney were alerted about 911 over a year in advance in did everything they could to make sure no one stopped it. Try focusing on that.

[billhicks76]

53. I Just Realized What Article About

But either way I'll never cheerlead more war. I trust no one running our country these days.

[sheshe2]

62. Who here is cheer leading war?

That was not what the OP or my post was about. I suggest you delete. You are way off base and you just attacked me in my post.

first you said...

Full Of Crap

You guys are the lamest. You call yourselves liberals but act like Neocons. You can't con me. The war machine propaganda and all the dark $$$ behind it keeps on steamrolling. Bush and Cheney were alerted about 911 over a year in advance in did everything they could to make sure no one stopped it. Try focusing on that.

and when I called you out you say this....

I Just Realized What Article About

But either way I'll never cheerlead more war. I trust no one running our country these days.

Both comments are off base. Please delete. Two attacks in a row for something I never said.

[billhicks76]

219. 911 Is Still Relevant

Especially because the office of president has become nothing more than fundraising support for the war machine. That's why nothing gets done...it's not supposed to. It's all theater for the masses as they choke every dollar out of us to divert to weapons manufacturers and military/police(no difference anymore) contractors. It's all a sham. Obama has failed miserably and only whiners can lay it all on the feet of Congress. If Obama can't help us because of then he doesn't stand up and shout what he's supposed to believe in at the very least. No. He has joined them and it's obvious. Let's hope we don't get fooled again. I don't personally think he won the election just because he's Black. Even our own party was so personally disgusted with Hillary Clinton that they voted for the new guy who at least acted like he was there to protect the little person. But alas he had proved to be just another politician most of which are charlatans. They exist to further our deadly foreign policy and that's it. It's simply amazing to me that this President hasn't ended the drug war and NSA crimes against Americans. I'm equally dismayed he ended up promoting lobbying and secrecy instead of diminishing it. He flip flopped on everything years ago. The result was many friends of mine being to disillusioned to participate in politics on anything but the grass roots level. Mission Accomplished...the Anti-Bush, Anti-War movement was neutered by Obama. They should both give each other a medal.

[Cha]

81. "Full of Crap.. You guys are the lamest.".. here's your personal insult right backatcha..

[treestar]

127. they were alerted over a year earlier?

Where did you find this out? prisonplanet.com?

[billhicks76]

218. Numerous Warnings

Foreign governments warned us. And just because some idiot named Alex Jones exists doesn't mean the ocean isn't blue or that the sun doesn't exist because he believes it. Obviously you don't pay attention and that's your fault. CNN ran a story in 2000 I personally recall watching. The G8 meeting was on the island of Genoa that year and the US installed ant-aircraft guns around the island because intelligence warned of a terror attack using airliners as bombs. Maybe you should be asking about the 28 pages of redacted info in the 911 "Commission" report that Sen Bob Graham and others have said would turn this country upside down if it were revealed obviously implicating Saudi Arabia or Israel. This might be a better use of your time instead of resorting to deflection or baseless insults to your fellow democrats. Although I still stand by saying comments here are lame because I cannot stand psuedo liberals who sound like neocons. Anyone can pretend to be anything they want but sometimes this place gets intellectually polluted. People here should be demanding Condeleeza Rice be arrested for lying to Congress when she said the US had no idea planes could be used as bombs.

[treestar]

224. that's not a specific warning of the 911 attacks

[billhicks76]

220. No Thanks

I don't live my life based on the Bin Laden fairy tale. Oceania vs Eurasia forever...War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery , Ignorance Is Strength. And FOX definitely runs The Hate. Be thing I know for sure as I see it everyday...the War At Home is being amped up and Obama is good at following orders.

[treestar]

225. bin Laden fairy tale?

[REP]

230. Looks like we got us a Truther

I'm waiting to hear how the planes were holograms.

Some people can accept anything but the truth: a handful of terrorists killed thousands of people, most of them people who just showed up at their crappy jobs that day. What happened was so horrific, so utterly dreadful, so unthinkable that some people literally cannot think about what happened, and have to invent complex stories they label The Truth in order to deal with the unspeakable horror. There's one that involves the planes being only holograms - and wouldn't that be lovely? That no one really died, and in utter terror? But that's not what happened.

[ucrdem]

2. Proud rec #5

[Dirty Socialist]

3. He Seems to Be Very Cranky

I guess it's nearly impossible for him to be satisfied with anyone in the White House.

[MohRokTah]

5. HE hasn't been able to make a buck off a good ranty documentary in some time.

Of course he's very cranky, so he resorted to his inner racist.

[JI7]

7. yup

[freshwest]

76. That's it!

[Cha]

93. He could do one on the US corporate mediawhore$$$

[marym625]

117. Are you seriously calling Michael Moore

Racist because he's not happy with Obama?

[MohRokTah]

122. HE made a racist statement about Obama. eom

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

136. Michael Moore raised the issue of race. No one here on DU did. This was Michael Moore.

We are (I am) responding to the fact that HE raised the issue re: race and President Obama.

He could have easily discussed his disappointments with the president and left it at that. But to bring up race? Why is that?

Why is the president being reduced to his race?

You're telling me that this president has had ZERO accomplishments outside of his race? That is what Faux News has been telling us since Day #1 and we all know where Faux News is coming from.

Michael Moore needs to think about what he's saying because it's fucked up.

[marym625]

139. my response

Was to the reply, which was on the OP. Based just on that, my question was legitimate.

I have not yet responded to the reply to me because I am working and haven't had time to find out everything that was said by Michael Moore. But since I am now being accused of basically agreeing with Moore, without my saying anything of the sort, I am taking a little time.

From what I have been able to look at and reasonable so far, I think MM's comments were stupid and reprehensible.

Don't put words in my mouth

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

202. I am the OP. Are you responding to me? We can discuss.

[marym625]

246. I am sorry for the delay in responding

No, I was not responding to your OP. I get why you posted it. I agree. But I think just as a person.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

247. No worries. Thanks for your response. :)

[derby378]

156. You don't get to redefine "racism" just because Moore criticized Obama

If you want to show Moore where's he's wrong, by all means, do so. But words still mean things to liberals as well as everyone else.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

201. I "redefined" racism? Where did I do that? Please be specific. And if you aren't black and don't

know how racism feels like, then you need to shut up.

[JaneyVee]

15. He is going through a messy divorce right now, but...

Still that's no excuse.

[quakerboy]

194. There hasnt been a whole lot to be satisfied with

in a long while.

At least, not if you are a lefty. Particularly not if you have socialist leanings

[cali]

6. look, I foud Moore's crap about the President using the color of his skin racist shit

but what that has to do with bin laden, I fail to see. Of course, I'm in a distinct minority. my response to the killing of bin laden was pretty much so what? bin laden was, by that point, pretty irrelevant and he'd already won.

[geek tragedy]

9. Wasn't Bush's failure to get bin Laden a big part of F911? nt

[cali]

14. I never saw it. I hate to admit this on DU, but I actually am not a MM fan

[geek tragedy]

18. we walked out of it. got dragged to it by my dad.

my wife, who watched the 2nd plane hit live (as in not on tv) didn't need to hear the sounds of the planes impacting the building--PTSD and all

Moore's more of an entertainer than a serious documentarian

[cali]

24. agreed. and I've always found something annoyingly coy and cutsey about his stuff

the stuff of his that I've seen, just doesn't work for me.

[REP]

231. I just saw it on TV from the other side of the country - cannot stand to ever see it again

I can't imagine how bad it must be for your wife.

The TV is nowhere near a news channel the day before my Aunt's birthday.

[Dorian Gray]

113. I didn't see it either

I lived through it. Watched from my rooftop on 29th street in Manhattan as the towers collapsed. Had no desire to see that movie. (Or Stone's WTC movie.)

I don't think that is difficult to admit on DU. It's completely understandable.

Moore made some good movies. I agree with him when it comes to gun control, but he's a movie maker and uses techniques to get his points across that I don't necessarily agree with. I'm sure he believes in his topics, but he also is an entertainer. I always keep that in mind.

[cali]

116. so sorry. didn't know you went through that.

I was in my garden in Northern Vermont on an idyllic day. Didn't even own a tv at the time. I found it traumatic enough watching at a neighbors. I have never watched any footage since.

Re Moore, as I said, there's just something about his style that grates on me.

[SylviaD]

185. Nor am I. Less and less as time goes by in fact. n/t

[ucrdem]

10. Bin laden was the GOP's golden goose and Obama killed it.

I say bravo, whether OBL was alive or dead already or never existed. It was long past time to bring the curtain down on that act.

[cali]

12. that's a good point.

[Cha]

87. And, actually, ucr.. remembering back.. they did find plans in bin laden's compound that

exposed more terror plots.. so there's that.

"Materials found inside Osama bin Laden’s compound last May show that the al-Qaida leader regularly ordered his subordinates to plan new attacks, including assassinations of President Barack Obama and Gen. David Petraeus, despite an increasingly limited cadre of operatives capable of carrying out such attacks.

Like Adolf Hitler at the end of World War II ordering mythical German divisions to attack Russian positions, bin Laden wanted progress reports on how his plans were coming together. And like Hitler’s generals, al-Qaida’s top commanders believed that their isolated leader didn’t get how bad things were on the ground."

The rest..
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/05/01/11476990-bin-laden-in-hiding-hatching-horrific-plots-despite-crippling-attacks-on-al-Qaida

So many right and left pooh pooh this but if the SEAL TEAM under President Obama hadn't found and killed bin laden then it would have been a BFD. You know how that goes. I'm glad he's gone.

[ucrdem]

90. Yep. Unlike Bush-Cheney the Obama administration has actually kept us safe.

Without making our lives living hell, too.

[Cha]

91. ..

I love it when I wake up in the morning and Barack Obama is President~

[ucrdem]

187. Children are apt to forget to remember.

Amazing how many conveniently "forget" the nightmare we were living through six short years ago. NSA spying for example was real, so were terror alerts, terror plots, assorted live terrorists popping up everywhere, mysterious disappearances, freak plane and auto accidents galore, airport lockdowns and three-hour lines to fly a couple hundred lousy domestic miles, not to mention having to get half naked to board the freaking plane. Things were really, really bad and they didn't get better accidentally.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

134. Excuse me, cali, but go back and re-read what MM said. He said that President Obama will only

be remembered as the first black American president. That is bullshit.

First, MM spent several years making a moving about 911 and the invasion of an unarmed nation. The irony is that the unfortunate events that we now face in Iraq are PRECISELY caused to those bad decisions made by the previous administration now sitting on the lap of the current president.

It is absolutely appalling and incredibly unfair to blame THIS president for the actions of the PREVIOUS administration. Had we not invaded and attacked that sovereign nation, I wouldn't be hurting my fingers typed this post to you.

The bottom line is that President Obama--like him, love him, hate him--has a long list of accomplishments, including the capturing and killing of the person responsible for 911. That is a fact! To dismiss that, especially from someone like Michael Moore, is not only strange, it is offensive.

Michael Moore brought in the issue of race. No one here on DU did.

Second, MM also spent several years...well, many years railing against the current health care system.

Well, the current BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE has gone further than any previous administration to make improvements to said system. Is the ACA perfect? NO! Is it what we ultimately want? NO! I have been clear and very consistent that at the very least, we should have some form of public option if we can't get universal medicine.

But again, to dismiss and diminish this man's record of accomplishments is, to me, yes, racism.

As a black woman who has accomplished very much in my own life, I am very familiar with having my own successes reduced down to my skin color and my skin color ONLY (not even my gender).

Michael Moore's comments were wrong. They were wrong and offensive. And most blacks--some of whom may even be disappointed with President Obama--know what it feels like to be reduced down to one's skin color rather than have their accomplishments acknowledged. It happens nearly everyday here on DU when it comes to this president, and don't think that the black DUers are not having discussions about it because we are. It's offensive! And wrong!

[cali]

161. huh? I've clearly said I find Moore's comments racist. what more do you want?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

200. What more do I want? Nevermind.

[2banon]

168. Wait a minute.. Let me get this straight.. MM is a Racist because he said Obama will be remembered

that he was the first Black President, while criticizing Obama's Neo-Con policies?

Do I have that right?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

199. Please find where I called MM a racist? You can't because I did no such thing.

[treestar]

227. No, he said all he would be remembered for is being the first black President

[Cha]

11. A-Men, Liberal_Stalwart!

[rbrnmw]

13. FUCK YOU MICHAEL MOORE

Last edited Thu Sep 11, 2014, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

What has MM done as POTUS to be remembered in a hundred years? Oh right he has never been President.

[Union Scribe]

19. ...really...

so only other people who have been president can criticize the president? The absurdity of this rhetoric is getting out of hand.

[rbrnmw]

21. That's not what I said.

He is a public person. I was merely pointing he has never been President, threrefore he won't be remembered at all. Maybe he could be less racist toward this President

[former9thward]

54. So only people who have been President will be remembered.

What crap. People with opinions like yours will not be remembered, that's for sure.

[liberalmike27]

67. Right

Like when you say anything bad, no matter how justified about Israel, you're anti-Semitic.

I don't think mentioning his color in this way is racial. Clearly he's not insulting his color, as that is what he will be remembered by. He is disappointed that Obama has done a very, very, very poor job of pulling back to the left, has bought into the neoliberal tradition of late, and seems to admire (of all fraking people) Reagan more than other Democrats.

Those policies aren't something I can get excited about. I'll file him in the Clinton category--he doesn't get Carter acclaim.

This whole hate Nader, Hate Moore thing shows how effectively the media can trash two good people, working for positive, human change. They seized the opportunity in 2000 to trash Moore, to hang the Gore loss on him, in an election so clearly, so corruptly STOLEN By Jeb Bush's minions, and did their job well. They proved that more liberal folks are just as susceptible to brainwashing, to be made to hate people who only have good intentions toward humanity.

[whopis01]

110. "he has never been President, therefore he won't be remembered at all."

Seriously?

That's your criteria for who will and who won't be remembered? With that logic, Obama would be the first black person to ever be remembered.

Ridiculous.

[rbrnmw]

166. No not everyone just Moore

[QC]

119. Looks like Britney has found DU!

[Al Carroll]

16. And as an American Indian and Latino man, I say I agree with Moore

If the sole accomplishment you want to point to is a war one, killing Bin Laden, that undermines any claim that you care about progressivism.

Obama's weaknesses and failures are half self inflicted. He gave way, and sometimes gave away, too easily. It took him half a decade to realize GOP obstructionism would never stop. Most of us caught onto it within months.

He obviously does have some accomplishments, ACA, the stimulus, ending racist drug sentencing, a treaty with Iran.

He also is obviously a war criminal, with over 3000 deaths by his drone assassination program. We all know very well the same program would have every progressive horrified had Bush carried it out.

Also- record deportations, illegal spying, lack of transparency, prosecuting whistle blowers, and absolute refusal to prosecute prior administration's war criminals.

Finally, he had to be pushed into leaving Iraq and Afghanistan, the first to which he is returning. He is an empire builder. The main difference between him and GW is he tries to be a more efficient one.

He perhaps should get credit for creating Brand Obama, this amorphous idea of hope which conned many progressives into thinking he was one of them.

[ucrdem]

20. Don't believe everything you read.

You sound like a person who has done his homework but read all the wrong books and perfectly echoes a pile of false claims and think-tank talking points conveniently spread by revered "left" libertarians who really shouldn't be writing outside of their fields but do anyway, Chomsky being the MIC water-carrier-in-chief.

...........
p.s. and now that we've gotten that out of the way welcome to DU and I'm glad you're here!

[G_j]

27. please elaborate

on what you call "false claims". You dismissed everything in his comment, without a single fact or specific.

[ucrdem]

37. Measure for measure you might say.

The claims are clearly false -- if any of them weren't, the PBO admin would be impeached and convicted by House and Senate in a heartbeat -- and have no support outside ridiculous claims broadcast daily by RW whiners and dubious "leftists" like Amy Goodman whose show often seems a craftier version of Limbaugh's. But since you asked:

He also is obviously a war criminal

-- Oh really? So the Obama-obssessed T-baggers and their puppetmasters missed their big chance?

with over 3000 deaths by his drone assassination program

-- Meaningless without some indication of a source, location and status of the persons killed, nature of the offenses they were targeted for, cost in lives of alternative operations i.e. ground war etc.

We all know very well the same program would have every progressive horrified had Bush carried it out.

-- The Iraq war is thought to have killed or displaced upwards of one million civilians in Iraq alone. And yes I was utterly horrified by that and every other Bush atrocity as I imagine most here were.

Also- record deportations, illegal spying, lack of transparency, prosecuting whistle blowers, and absolute refusal to prosecute prior administration's war criminals.

Please tell me about this "illegal spying." This wouldn't happen to be that legally issued Verizon metadata warrant Messieurs Snowden and Greenwald made so much hay out of last year, would it?

[G_j]

45. your own talking points

to counter what you call talking points... that you don't believe there has been illegal spying says enough.

[ucrdem]

49. Fine, read Greenwald's talking points. Notice that he never mentions illegality:

NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily
Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama

Glenn Greenwald theguardian.com, Wednesday 5 June 2013 19.04 EDT

http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

And lest you think Glenn just had a bad day and forgot to mention the alleged illegalities, see for yourself. Here's the 4-page Verizon warrant:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order

Please let us know just as soon as you spot the "illegal spying" because Mr Snowden never got around to telling us where it was, either. And we'd really like to know!

[JustAnotherGen]

85. It's not just Verizon landline

It is all Telecom and all banking - and it's all legal. Funny - I still don't see either of those guys on the OFAC or BIS lists
that finance and telecom have to run their new customers against weekly and entire customer bases against monthly.

BTW - love your bullet points.

Isn't that funny how the TEAs never have been able to make any of it stick? Because it can't.

[ucrdem]

89. Thanks!

Yeah. And funny how the media punditocracy kept forgetting to mention all the NSA reforms Dems passed in 2009 that PBO has been implementing steadily ever since, or how the outrageously illegal stuff happened under Bush-Cheney. But never mind that because here's another strangely hypnotic picture of Edward you-are-gettting-very-very-sleepyyyyy Snowden . . .

[DavidG_WI]

153. It's all data communications

Everything is currently being archived if it use the internet, phone and cell networks.

https://teksyndicate.com/videos/tek-0140-fake-cell-towers-who-owns-them

[JustAnotherGen]

155. Plus every single one of your banking records

I'm in wireless.

I do the search function.

They connect the communications with the money. You need those two things to commit an act of violence.

[DavidG_WI]

94. Continuing the war so long

doesn't make him much better.

The spying is unconstitutional, the constitution is the highest law of the nation and cannot be violated even by executive order or by the SCOTUS. The only way to change the constitution is via the amendment process, and I don't remember there being any votes to kill off the first amendment.

[Android3.14]

160. For some people, fascism is okay as long as it's a Democrat

[liberalmike27]

71. True

And Chomsky could not be further from a guy who "carries the water for the MIC." He detests the MIC, and it's throughout his writings--if you think that, it isn't likely you have read a single book by Chomsky.

[ucrdem]

83. Chomsky's grotesque simplifications of US elections --

the ones that get repackaged and resold in multiple media every four years during the run-up to national elections, sold like toothpaste, you might say -- are approximately as insightful as Alex Jones on global warming, and more pernicious. Who is he pitched to? To disaffected "swing voters" and "independents" who either don't vote or wind up voting for vanity candidates like Nader or Ron Paul because they're assured by the likes of Noam Chomsky that both parties are identical, elections are run by PR firms, campaigns are exercises in disinformation etc. Not just GOP, both parties, because you see, they're both sold like ... toothpaste!

Isn't that brilliant?

And who do you think benefits from this crap? Not Dems. Dems get burned. See 2010 and probably 2014. Chomsky is worst than a fraud, he's a fake. JMHO, YMMV.

[bobduca]

106. ZOMG you dont like chomsky??1?1?1 who knew

[QC]

120. Shocking, isn't it?

Quelle surprise {yawn}.

[Union Scribe]

32. What does any of that post mean?

Left libertarians? Chomsky MIC?

[DavidG_WI]

92. Nah, Obama has been very weak

I say this having worked for OFA through the 2012 reelection campaign. he's never once even attempted to force the GOP's hand, nor has he called them out for anything that they have done. Instead it's failed attempt an compromise after failed attempt at compromise with more deportations and surveillance state thrown in for good measure.

Even his sole victory, the Affordable Care Act, A.K.A Obamacare, was far too weak. Obama clearly never learned how to play hardball negotiations, you start with full singlepayer health, dental and vision and you try to get as much of that as possible, instead of coming out of the starting blocks with barely more then the Heritage Foundation/Newt Gingrich/Mitt Romneycare program that isn't even the same mandatory level of healthcare nation wide because it's left up to the states.

But allot of Dems don't like to hear the truth, they wrongly assume that just because the guy in the oval office has a (D) next to his name that it'll magically be different somehow. If the man has no spine you get exactly what we have now, the GOP winning by attrition.

[Cha]

100. Haha.. And, I say that as having worked for OFA in 2012... President Obama has been so good for

our country.

"..his sole victory.." right there shows you haven't been paying attention but you sure like to get online and throw your little venomous pot shots. whoopee.

I think it is you who doesn't want to hear the facts.

[DavidG_WI]

118. So list his victories

that aren't a continuation of stagnation. Like most here I listen to Thom Hartmann and Democracy Now every day, I don't remember hearing anything.

as Thom has stated many time before, Obama isn't a liberal, his administration has been center right the whole time, he's as far right as Reagan was. he whole reason I wen to work for him instead of the Green party is because at least he's not as bad as Romney, McCain or Paul. But voting for 3rd parties, especially in a battleground state like Wisconsin is just giving away the victory to the Republicans because our political system is broken by design to only ever allow 2 parties.

Oh, and with Obama's expanded surveillance program going after companies like Yahoo and Microsoft to violate the sovereignty of servers in there countries to the point of literally stating that all servers in the world fall under US jurisdiction, he's about to go down as the president that killed the American tech sector. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/08/30/220255/microsoft-defies-court-order-will-not-give-emails-to-us-government

Yahoo has already lost their court battle from the blurb I heard on my way out the door today, if Microsoft loses then thats more precedent to use a a bludgeon against Apple, Google and every other US based tech company to go down like Cisco already has. Every other nation on earth will no loner feel safe using any US made tech, with China, Russia and the EU already looking into building their own tech industries, by looking to have their own CPU designs and operating systems now because the world is fed up with the US government spying on everyone and everything.

But go ahead keep telling yourself everything is going to be A-OK...

[QC]

123. But everything is going to be A-OK

for those with trust funds.

For the rest of us, not so much.

That's an important point to keep in mind.

[DavidG_WI]

125. Till the NSA take a look at their

total collected history of communications after they come out against someone or something.

[Cha]

214. Start paying attention and do your own damn research. You don't know but

you claim.. ".. sole victory.." like you do.

[DavidG_WI]

223. So another fanboi that can't back up their argument...

[2banon]

169. Is this Freeperland?

You wrote:

Chomsky being the MIC water-carrier-in-chief.

[Cha]

99. Sorry, but you and Michael Moore are both Ignorant of the facts..you have no idea what the President

has accomplished.. I just see a bunch of whiny talking points that have nothing to do with reality. smh.

too bad for you and Moore.. both on the wrong side of history.

[one_voice]

22. Perfectly said...

Fuck you Michael Moore.

[Spazito]

25. Well said!

Moore's latest screed is appallingly racist.

[earthside]

28. What is the 'racist' part?

Barack Obama is the country's first black president.

[Spazito]

31. The racist part is the "only" aspect...

it is like saying Moore will be known only as a WHITE man who is for gun control. No one mentions Moore's skin color when talking about what he has done or not done. If Moore wants to point out what as not been accomplished during President Obama's time, fine, point it out but do it without using his race as THE focus.

[Union Scribe]

35. But that isn't historic is it?

Moore's being white in his industry has not made history. It is not an achievement that will be remembered. Being the first black president is, and Moore was acknowledging that while lamenting there was no other historical legacy (in his opinion). All this outrage over nothing.

[Spazito]

38. It is historic but it isn't the ONLY aspect for which President Obama will be known for and Moore...

by saying it will be so, is not just acknowledging that one, among many, point history will record. It will be one among a list of many accomplishments, it will not be the sole accomplishment, far from it.

[Union Scribe]

39. So you disagree about the number of accomplishments

not that being the first black president is one such accomplishment. You both, and I, agree about that being an accomplishment. So how was it racist? By disagreeing with you about other accomplishments? That's not racism.

[Spazito]

42. Again, to say it will be his ONLY accomplishment is, inherently, racist because Moore has...

acknowledged President Obama has "done some good things" which, to me, translates he has accomplished more than just being the first black President but Moore is focused on the President's race and not on his record as a whole.

[Union Scribe]

46. "done some good things" is not necessarily historical

Moore is talking about a legacy, and apparently thinks that the memorable part of Obama's is being the first black president. It sounds like you're disagreeing with him about neglecting other accomplishments but throwing in this insistence that it's racist when that isn't even the part you have been taking issue with.

[Spazito]

47. No, you have it wrong...

Moore knows full well President Obama will be recorded in history for many things, one being the first black President. His racist tendencies are his blatant ignoring of those accomplishments in order to focus only on his race.

[Cha]

70. Exaclty, Spazito.. Michael Moore's an ignorant racist. Here's another little racist screed

of his..

06 January 2003

"I took my son to see Michael Moore live at the Roundhouse, in north London, before Christmas. The US radical and author of the best-selling book Stupid White Men was (mostly) clever, funny, angry, sharp, iconoclastic and sceptical about the lies and humbug processed by the US government and big business. Sure there were some flunked bits – you expect that, the troughs are part of the adventure, an evening with a well-worn rebel."

"What we did not expect was to feel so enraged at one point that we almost walked out. It was when Moore went into a rant about how the passengers on the planes on 11 September were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes, who as we all know take no disrespect from anybody. God save us from such stupid white men, especially now, when in the US and the UK, black people's lives are being ripped to shreds by drugs, lawlessness, fear and frightful violence plus the endless circle of racism, exclusion and incarceration. This is not awesome, Mr Moore; it is a calamity, for descendants of slaves unimaginably more so"

https://web.archive.org/web/20030206101644/http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=366725

[Spazito]

74. Geez, talk about racist stereotyping!

That's disgusting. Thanks, Cha, for this, I had no idea he had said the above. I was appalled at his racist commentary in the interview and, I must admit, very shocked as I had no idea he held those views.

[AverageJoe90]

172. If what's been said here is even true, I'll just point out to you what I pointed out elsewhere:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5526141

Unfortunate implications may exist, but in the context that it appears in, this was clearly directed at white men and not racism against black folks.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

243. Nor did I imply that Michael Moore is a racist. Please reread my post, #143.

...and cut the bullshit!

[AverageJoe90]

245. But see, here's the thing. I didn't actually say what you thought I said.

I didn't actually accuse *YOU*, yourself, of accusing MM(or I would have been upfront about it). I was merely pointing that out as a general statement. It's honestly not that hard to figure out, if you'd bothered to read the context.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

248. Please...

Michael Moore brought up race. It was he who did it, not me.

He reduced Barack Obama down to his race.

He ignored all of his accomplishments as president, where you agree or not; whether you like President Obama or not.

There is a difference between (1) being a racist and (2) making racially insensitive or racist statements.

From what I know about MM and from what I've seen about him, I do not think he is a racist.

Let me repeat...

I DO NOT THINK MICHAEL MOORE IS A RACIST.

What I think Michael Moore is is an asshole who made racially insensitive statements about our president.

[Union Scribe]

103. ...

Now you're playing at reading minds as well as being able to tell the future. It is entirely pointless to continue if you're just going to pull in wild assumptions to justify reading into his comments something that isn't there.

[earthside]

36. Really?

If Moore was the first white filmmaker then it would be an apt descriptor.

That wouldn't be racist, but a statement of fact.

Colin Powell was the first black U.S. Secretary of State; it is not 'racist' to point that out.

Thurgood Marshall was the first black member of the U.S. Supreme Court.

[Spazito]

40. Colin Powell is most known for My Lai massacre and his lies told at the UN...

he is NOT known as the FIRST Secretary of State to lie to the US public and the world. You make my point which is, I am sure, not your intent.

Thurgood Marshall is known for Brown vw the Board of Education of Topeka, that is what comes to mind when his name is mentioned, his race is secondary.

[former9thward]

57. False.

He is known as the first black Supreme Court Justice. Anything else is secondary.

[Spazito]

60. Not false, true

Google it.

[former9thward]

63. Google says he was the first AA SC Justice.

Try again.

[Spazito]

72. Nope, here is what is found when one googles Thurgood Marshall...

"Attorney Thurgood Marshall led the civil rights case of Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka to a successful hearing at the Supreme Court of the United States in 1954. He became the court's first African-American justice 13 years later."

http://www.who2.com/bio/thurgood-marshall

Note his leading the civil rights case is FIRST on the list.

[former9thward]

77. You are picking and choosing what google shows.

Google shows 477,000 entries.

First sentence of the first google entry:

Thurgood Marshall (July 2, 1908 – January 24, 1993) was an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court, serving from October 1967 until October 1991. Marshall was the Court's 96th justice and its first African American justice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurgood_Marshall

[Spazito]

79. LOL, I took the first entry offered, a biography of Marshall...

not wikipedia which has it's own issues I am sure you would agree.

[Number23]

98. Boy, you've got your hands full in this sub thread, huh??

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have the patience of Job. Absolutely amazing what (and who) you can put up with without blowing your top.

[Union Scribe]

102. Glad you're entertained. nt

[Spazito]

132. Hey Number 23!

Thanks for the compliment!

[Number23]

195. You so deserve it. You calmly explain to those unwilling or unable to comprehend over and over again

No matter how absurd, nasty or laughable their "perspective."

[former9thward]

207. Do you have a special google also?

One that only you and the poster has?

[Tarheel_Dem]

154. Ditto to that!

[frylock]

208. ask 10 random people about my lai and Colin Powell..

report back and tell us how many even know what My Lai is.

[Spazito]

209. It was covered quite extensively during Powell's term as Sec of State...

I am quite confident there are many more than 10 random people aware of his actions at that time. I assume I can count on you being one of those.

[frylock]

210. Then go ahead and ask 10 people at work if they know about Colin Powell and my lai..

I'm curious to know how many out of that 10 know anything about it.

[Spazito]

211. Feel free to do that at your place of employment...

if your curiosity is so compelling, I see no need to do the same.

[frylock]

222. it was your claim that Colin Powell is most famous for his whitewashing of the My Lai massacre..

above and beyond being the first black SoS, or lying to the UN with his vials of anthrax. I have nothing to gain by proving that to be incorrect, nor do I care to. In fact, I'm done discussing the issue.

[REP]

232. It depends upon the age of the people you ask

People my age (49) and younger may not know about My Lai simply because of our age, but we will know about the fake anthrax. I know about My Lai because my family was very anti-war, and my mother told me about Powell whitewashing the massacre.

[whopis01]

111. Moore wasn't pointing out the fact that Obama was the first black president.

Moore was claiming that is the only thing noteworthy about Obama.

You said Colin Powell was the first black Secretary of State. You said Thurgood Marshall was the first black Supreme Court justice. You said that this is just pointing out facts. I agree with you completely and have no issue with what you said. However what Moore said is significantly different from what you said.

He did not say that being the first black president would be the primary thing for which Obama would be recognized. He did not say when you google Obama, the first thing that shows up would be the fact he was the first black president.

He said that being the first black president would be the only thing for which Obama would be remembered.

Moore isn't alone in this view. There are large groups of people who, when they look at a black person, can't see anything other than the fact that person is black. For those people, the fact someone is black is not just the first thing they notice - it is the only thing they notice.

Those people are racists.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

138. Moore was claiming that is the only thing noteworthy about Obama.

That's even worse!!

[whopis01]

144. Agreed. n/t

[2banon]

171. If I noticed that Obama's first cabinet picks

were people I refer to as Wall Street and Neo Con Thugs, and expressed my disappointment and maybe anger/outrage with those sets of decisions.. (Just as I would have if it were Hillary Clinton making those exact same choices)... is that evidence of Racism in your pov?

[whopis01]

186. No - why would you think it may be?

Calling someone a "Neo Con Thug" has nothing to do with racism. Expressing anger/outrage/disappointment/etc at a decision is not racism (with the obvious qualifier that I am assuming you weren't upset at those choices because of the race of the people selected).

Racism is almost always characterized by either making assumptions about a group of people based on their race or by refusing to consider anything about an individual other than their race.

[2banon]

189. I completely agree. I think I accidently responded to the wrong post. (sheesh)

My mistake, It appears I thought I was responding to a post up thread a bit. you and I are on the same page on this point. thank you, and sorry for confusion..

[whopis01]

193. ah - no problem at all! n/t

[billhicks76]

52. I Call BS

People thought having a historic moment voting for a Black president was good enough to celebrate success. That's on record. Now that they've found out his policies are exactly like the last White criminal in the White House people are turning on each other amidst the confusion.

[Spazito]

56. Being elected as the first black President was the FIRST accomplishment to celebrate, it was NOT the

only accomplishment, that is the point.

[sheshe2]

212. I call bullshit too, bill...

"I Call BS

People thought having a historic moment voting for a Black president was good enough to celebrate success. That's on record. Now that they've found out his policies are exactly like the last White criminal in the White House people are turning on each other amidst the confusion."

Holy Shite! Why are you even on a Democratic board? You just said Obama is the same as Bush and then went on to accuse This President of being a war criminal. And that Obama is running this country into the ground. You accuse him of taking a huge surplus and turning this country into his own personal playground. Yes bill, that is what you stated when you said his policies are exactly like Bush.

Now that they've found out his policies are exactly like the last White criminal in the White House people are turning on each other amidst the confusion.

For the love of the Goddess, please get a grip!

[treestar]

228. And what has he accomplished regarding gun control?

Nothing. Making a movie didn't help, obviously. We're not closer to good gun control. We're further away than when he made that movie. I'm disappointed in Moore for making a movie that had no effect whatever on its issue.

[Spazito]

254. I do give him credit for Bowling for Columbine...

focusing on the US gun culture. If even one person, after seeing it, started thinking about the gun culture in a different way that, in and of itself, would be an accomplishment. Because there has been no change legislatively doesn't take away the value of his film, imo.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

137. Accomplishments reduced down to race. Black people are told this shit everyday despite their

accomplishments and success. It is offensive and wrong!

Fuck Michael Moore!

Speak on his disappointments with President Obama *without* bringing in race. That was unnecessary; it gives the political right ammunition to continue to exploit their race-hate!

[Bette Noir]

26. Obama has been a mixed bag, good and bad.

Bad: Selling us out to the insurance companies on the ACA. The drone program. Failure to keep his promises to Latinos re: immigration. Knuckling under to the Right Wing in general, as if there were anything he could do to appease them.

Good: Assorted gay rights. Limiting the ability of insurance companies to defraud their customers, via the ACA. A soaring stock market, which has kept us out of destitution in spite of unemployment lasting for years.

I'd give him at least 5 out of 10, probably 6. I definitely leap to his defense whenever the extremists on either side say he's an unmitigated failure.

[pnwmom]

33. He didn't sell us out to the insurance companies. The Rethugs prevented him from passing

any bill with a public option. His choice was the ACA or nothing. The Senate took a vote on the ACA bill when Ted Kennedy was still alive. After the election, and after Kennedy died, the House was taken over by the Rethugs. The only bill that could get considered was the bill that Kennedy had voted for before his death -- no other bill could overcome the Senate filibuster.

[former9thward]

59. False.

No Republican voted for the ACA. Why didn't he pass a public option with those same Democratic votes?

[pnwmom]

68. Did you bother to read the previous post?

The bill that had barely overcome the Senate filibuster, with Ted Kennedy's vote, had no public option.

At the time, the House was held by the Democrats, and their more liberal bill included a public option. Unfortunately, there were two more steps that had to happen. First, the House had to pass their bill, and then it had to get reconciled with the Senate version in a joint House/Senate Committee.

Before that could happen, Ted Kennedy died, and we no longer had a filibuster-proof majority. The only bill that could get passed then was the one the Senate had already approved -- the bill that had no public option. We were able to get that through the House without a single Republican vote. The public option died with Ted Kennedy.

[former9thward]

73. There were no Repubican votes for the ACA in either the House or Senate.

If a bill could get through the Senate without their votes then it could have gotten through with the public option unless Democrats did not support it. If they did not support it then they are responsible for its failure.

[pnwmom]

97. Not true. The Dems weren't responsible. Joseph Lieberman, Independent from Connecticut,

held the deciding vote.

He refused to vote for any bill containing a public option. (His state is headquarters for national insurance companies.) He would only vote for the ACA without a public option. And after Kennedy's death, and replacement by Brown, we couldn't overcome the filibuster without Lieberman's vote. Suddenly, his vote was absolutely key.

(Lieberman stopped being a Democrat when he lost a Democratic primary. Then he ran against the progressive Democrat as an Independent -- and won. Our filibuster-proof majority was gone -- from that point everything depended on Lieberman's whim.)

[former9thward]

129. If the public option had been in there

more than Lieberman would have voted against it. I think we all know that. There were never 59 Senators saying they wanted a public option.

[pnwmom]

149. No,we don't know that. "Wanting" something and being willing to have ones arm twisted --

or being willing to do some horse trading -- are different things. Senator Reid had all the other Dems in line, but he couldn't do it with Lieberman. Just because the 59 weren't all equally excited about a public option doesn't mean they weren't willing to go along with it. Everybody but Lieberman was.

[freshwest]

78. Yes. By that way of thinking, we must throw Ted Kennedy under the bus, too. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

88. Yeppers

And after all - he's only known being JFK's brother. .

[Behind the Aegis]

96. Well played!

But c'mon, you can't you are really surprised are you? I know I am not. More people are "worried" about poor MM, than the statement made about president Obama.

[joshcryer]

115. Don't forget the ACA waiver provision, enabling single payer in Vermont.

Literally impossible without the ACA. Vermont would've had to raise payroll to 11%. Good luck passing that.

[awoke_in_2003]

197. Because we started negotions

at public option instead of single payer. You do not begin negotiations where you say you hope to be. The fix was in from the start.

[PatrynXX]

29. I disliked his arrogant response and spoke up so the other day

trying to stay relevant is a Palin thing why is he doing it.

[flvegan]

30. So this "FUCK YOU" is because

nobody uttered the name Osama Bin Laden?

To recap:
Moore made a movie, you liked. It blamed people you don't like.
Obama killed that person you didn't like.
Moore never uttered the name Osama Bin Laden.
FUCK MOORE VERY MUCH.

What did I miss? I'm not following the story but I find the outrage interesting. I'm not getting the race part of it.

Nice avatar, btw.

[pnwmom]

34. You don't get the race part of it? Are you aware that Moore referred to Obama's race recently?

He said that history won't record any accomplishment for Obama except for being elected the first black President.

[flvegan]

55. I'm not, hence my statement.

I disagree with any statement that Obama's ONLY accomplishment will be having been the first black president.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

244. ...and that's what I am referring to. So we agree. What's your problem, then?

[Puzzledtraveller]

43. It's overplayed, like so much else

and portions taken out of context, portions omitted, and a ostritch mentality that shields people from reality is what the overreaction is about.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

140. There's no overreaction. When a person's accomplishments (or lack thereof) are reduced to

one's race, gender, etc., it is offensive.

Look, again, Michael Moore could have discussed his disappointment with President Obama without mentioning his race.

Think about it:

President Obama has endured so much racism and we as black folk have been subjected to such race hatred, not to mention the recent racially charged events. Michael Moore is picking at open wounds. It is a really a sore subject.

He could have made his points without bringing up race. He could have also made it clear that Mr. Obama has accomplished so much and has indeed achieved major successes, like capturing bin Laden and helping to improve health care service delivery, albeit without much help from Democrats or Republicans.

Michael Moore cannot just dismiss the fact that the president also rescued this country from an economic collapse with ZERO help from the Republicans who have obstructed every single JOBS bill, every single measure to create/retain jobs in this country.

And yet, we have so-called liberals and Democrats here who are blaming Obama and suggesting that he has accomplished nothing. Even they've seen with their own two eyes how this man has been thwarted every step of the way, with everything he has tried to do to create jobs, to improve access to housing, education...he is STILL blamed.

And to add insult to injury, Michael Moore brings race into this?

I didn't bring up race. Michael Moore did!

None of the black DUers brought up race! Michael Moore did!

So when people talk of "overreaction," I have to say, that's BULLSHIT!! We didn't start this! We're responding to the unfair bullshit!

[rbrnmw]

165. It's yet another example of white folks pulling the race card

Then blaming black folks saying they pulled it by reacting to the racist bs.

[sheshe2]

216. He is picking at open wounds

President Obama has endured so much racism and we as black folk have been subjected to such race hatred, not to mention the recent racially charged events. Michael Moore is picking at open wounds. It is a really a sore subject.

That says a lot. They keep picking at open wounds, let's keep the sore open and raw and bleeding. No need to let it heal naturally. No need to treat it and make it right. The police response in Ferguson did the same damn thing. Poke Prod and Damn Well Disrespect, the people.

Michael Moore needs to shut up and listen, it is not all about him, LS.

[sheshe2]

41. Kicking!

[erodriguez]

44. Moore is 100% correct. 100 years from now BO will be remebered as the first black pres

and yes that is probably about it.

Face it the pres hasn't been a game changer.

[pnwmom]

61. No, he will be remembered as the man who helped the country avert a terrible financial crisis

that could have caused unemployment worse than the Great Depression. And as the President who signed the first bill for universal health coverage. (And it is universal, because it requires that all insurers, both group and individual, to cover the Essential Benefits, and requires all insurers to accept customers without regard to preexisting conditions.)

[DavidG_WI]

124. Wrong, due o is surveillance expansion

He's going to go down as having killed off the US tech sector. With Cisco tanking after it was revealed that the NSA was intercepting their network equipment that was headed out of the country and adding their own hardware to them so they could bypass any and all security, with telling Microsoft that they have jurisdiction over every server on earth and th Microsoft is now in contempt of court for standing up for their buisness interests by not handing over customer E-Mails held overseas.

We're about to see a mass exodus from US tech in the EU, Russia and China. Say goodbye to Google, Apple, Microsoft and every other US based tech company.

[stonecutter357]

177. BENGHAZI!and stuff!

[DavidG_WI]

179. How's the whole "weapons of mass destruction" thing going? Oh wait...

[Hotler]

173. WOW!

[erodriguez]

233. People are just not going to remember that 100 years from now. Incremental change.

100 years ago Woodrow Wilson was president. Who really knows what he did? Probably 99% of Americans don't off of the top of their head.

The presidents most people remember now:

George Washington because he was the first.
Lincoln because he freed the slaves and led the country in the civil war.
Teddy Roosevelt because his name was Teddy and wore a big hat. (ask people what TR did most people don't know)
FDR because he started Social Security and was the president during WW2.
JFK because he was young, people liked him and was killed.
Nixon because he was a crook and resigned.

They will remember BO because he was the first black president. Some may know a little more. But I'm sure 99% will know him for that.

[pnwmom]

234. Obama will be the anti-Hoover. Hoover couldn't dig his way out of the Great Depression,

but Obama could turn the economy around while he was in office.

[erodriguez]

235. Umm sorta depends who you ask.

There are a lot of people, myself included, who are doing a lot worst than before the economy tanked.

Should I be thanking BO that my household income only went down 50%? Gimme a break.

[pnwmom]

236. I'm very sorry about your situation. But the reason we weren't hit with 25-30 percent unemployment

-- or higher -- is because of actions Obama took, along with the Dems in Congress, and the Federal Reserve.

[erodriguez]

237. Like I said most people are not going to remember that because that never happened

Barack Obama first black president

[AlbertCat]

69. Moore is 100% correct. 100 years from now BO will be remebered as the first black pres

Even if he's not correct, and Obama is remembered for say, the ACA, or killing Bin Laden, Moore's point is more about his disappointments with this Reagan loving Dem not to mention that most details we now think are important get lost in time. Neither of these notions are racist.

This is oversensitive outrage just like some fundie Christian, gun nut or Teabagger.


Save your anger for something important.... or something that at least you "get".

[Cha]

108. there's plenty of anger to go around, AC.. Michael Moore is a fucking ignorant racist..

Neither you or Moore.. are freaking soothsayers.. I give ya both a big ol "fundie Christian, gun nut or Teabagger" FAIL for your try

[Cha]

107. You face it, erodriguez.. you have no clue what you're going on about.

[wundermaus]

64. There's one little thing about Osama being captured and killed...

Dead men tell no tales... Sort of convenient and coincidental, isn't it?
Same shit with Saddam what's his name... Again, dead men tell no tales.
I do not consider it some sort of badge of honor to assassinate anybody.
Just remember one thing and only one thing... follow the money.
It's always about the money and power.
Wealthy, powerful people call the shots.
We have nothing to do with it.
We all get to sit in the back seat and watch the shit go down.
The rich fuckers have the whole thing dialed in.
And we are suckers for going along with it.
So you can say what you want about Micheal Moore.
It's a free country (Ha Ha Ha...)
Just one more little thing though...
If it stings then it must have hit a nerve.
("Fuck you very much" kinda reminds me of the "love or leave it" divide and conquer crap of the 60's)
Have a nice day.

[still_one]

66. bin laden told all the tales he needed to with 9/11. He got the due process he deserved

[OnyxCollie]

159. Speaking of due process...

Attorney General Eric Holder Speaks at Northwestern University School of Law
Chicago ~ Monday, March 5, 2012
http://www.justice.gov/iso/opa/ag/speeches/2012/ag-speech-1203051.html

Some have argued that the President is required to get permission from a federal court before taking action against a United States citizen who is a senior operational leader of al Qaeda or associated forces. This is simply not accurate. “Due process” and “judicial process” are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security. The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process.

...

Another significant accomplishment of the Obama administration, one that's likely to be remembered in the future.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

141. You have a nice day, too. Oh, and fuck Michael Moore...AGAIN!!

[still_one]

65. 10000000000+

[Tarheel_Dem]

75. Not sure why anyone's surprised. He supported the guy who called our POTUS "an Uncle Tom".

Could Rush Limbaugh be right about white liberals?

[Union Scribe]

101. Do enlighten us

as to what you're teasingly agreeing with Rush Limbaugh about?

[Rex]

135. Probably everything.

Some here cannot contain their hatred for liberals.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

252. ...and some cannot contain their hatred for blacks! Or women! Or LGBT, either!

[brentspeak]

80. Moore was still correct

100 years from now, the primary thing Americans will collectively remember about Barack Obama is that he was the nation's first black president.

The various notable accomplishments, foibles, and anecdotes of Obama's presidency will be recounted by presidential historians and studied (and forgotten) by bored high school students. But as far as the general public is concerned, Obama will always be "the nation's first black president."

George Washington suffers a similar one-sentence historical fate as "the nation's first president", all the many important happenings during his two terms known mainly to just historians and bored high school history students.

[JI7]

82. Michael Moore's comments remind me of John Sununu's Comments about Powell and Obama

John Sununu, a top adviser to Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, has suggested that Colin Powell endorsed President Obama because both men are black.

Speaking on Piers Morgan Tonight on CNN about Powell's endorsement, Sununu suggested policy had not been the main reason for Powell supporting the president. He said:

Frankly, when you take a look at Colin Powell, you have to wonder whether that's an endorsement based on issues or whether he's got a slightly different reason for preferring President Obama.

Prodded lightly by Morgan about what those reasons might be he did not hesitate to expand:

Well, I think when you have somebody of your own race that you're proud of being president of the United States, I applaud Colin for standing with him.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2012/oct/26/john-sununu-colin-powell-obama

[mwrguy]

84. K&R

[DavidG_WI]

86. Osama Bin Obiwan Kenobi

In our decade long war on error to kill him we have fallen directly into the trap he set for us, he rightly predicted that we would run ourselves into the ground morally and economically so long as someone planted an Al'Qaeda flag on any point of the globe.

The terrorists won, they got more then they ever dreamed possible, and you are too blind to see it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

142. My eyes are wide open, dear. I see very clearly. Thank you.

[DavidG_WI]

145. Apparently you don't

Go look up what Osama actually said. He knew he'd be killed, he wanted it because he knew it would make him a martyr in war here we'd be an oppressive occupying aggressor over the local people in an unwinnable war everywhere an Al'Qaeda member popped up. Destroying everything that America stands for just for revenge and a false sense of security.

So instead you take Moore's statements out of context and instead try and conflate it as a racial issue.

Obama is a center-right politician that talked a big liberal game and when it came time to get shit done he did little to help and more to harm. He will not be remembered as one of our great leaders, because to do so one must actually lead.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

150. Wait, so let me get this straight: your defending OBL to prove MM is right because you hate Obama?

That's rich. No, thank you. I'll pass and keep my eyes wide open.

[DavidG_WI]

152. So you'd rather pull a Faux news I see

then actually make an attempt at reading comprehension.

The correct response to Bin Laden was to let the international agencies deal with him, they knew were he was and where going to hand him over to the Hague courts. instead we ignored that and did all the crap we did.

Just like Obiwan's iconic line, "strike me down and I will become more powerful then you can ever imagine." Attacking Al'Qaeda did just that, it made them just that, it gave them all they wanted and more by making us give up our soul and for revenge and bleed us dry economically.

Our nation is still being strangled by these war debts and yet we keep looking to fight yet more terrorists in an endless and unwinnable war.

The only way to beat a terrorist is to not fight them, because fighting them is what they want.

[Cartoonist]

167. So you're a Bin Laden fan?

Must be my reading comprehension.

The correct response to Bin Laden was to let the international agencies deal with him
-
So we let a bunch of Saudis attack us and we do nothing? We channel Wimpy and say, "Let's you and him fight."
I guess you didn't hear Osama say we were weak because we did nothing about the attack on the Cole.

[DavidG_WI]

176. So quickly we forget history: Saudis attacked us so we go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan...

The Taliban offered Osama up on a silver platter http://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

What did Iraq and Afghanistan have to do with with 9/11? Why is there no outrage that Faux is owned in part by the Saudi prince Al-Waleed bin Talal? How about Bandar "Bush" bin Sultan?

Oh, but if you are against the wars you must be pro terrorist!

[Jamaal510]

95. I don't think MM is a racist, but

he's definitely a nut. This comment of his is evidence to me that he doesn't pay enough attention to politics. O's presidency will without a doubt be memorable, and it will likely be for how many times he has been blocked (and had people secretly conspiring to block his agenda no matter what), he'll be remembered for changing the health care system, lowering unemployment, being the first sitting president to endorse gay rights and openly support women's rights, and so on. Are there many things I wish he would've gotten done? Of course! But I know to look at the whole picture first before portraying this president as totally ineffective.

[Union Scribe]

104. Minus the nut remark

I think that's a perfectly reasonable argument to make about his comment.

[Cha]

105. the thing is.. if he's not "racist" he shouldn't say racist things. to reduce the President to

being only remembered for the color of his pigment is quite ugly racism, imv.

And this from years before doesn't speak well for his racist stereotyping ..

06 January 2003

"I took my son to see Michael Moore live at the Roundhouse, in north London, before Christmas. The US radical and author of the best-selling book Stupid White Men was (mostly) clever, funny, angry, sharp, iconoclastic and sceptical about the lies and humbug processed by the US government and big business. Sure there were some flunked bits – you expect that, the troughs are part of the adventure, an evening with a well-worn rebel."

"What we did not expect was to feel so enraged at one point that we almost walked out. It was when Moore went into a rant about how the passengers on the planes on 11 September were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes, who as we all know take no disrespect from anybody. God save us from such stupid white men, especially now, when in the US and the UK, black people's lives are being ripped to shreds by drugs, lawlessness, fear and frightful violence plus the endless circle of racism, exclusion and incarceration. This is not awesome, Mr Moore; it is a calamity, for descendants of slaves unimaginably more so"

https://web.archive.org/web/20030206101644/http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=366725

geektragedy http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5518956

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

143. I didn't imply or call MM a racist. I just think the irony shouldn't be missed.

And I think he could have made his points without reducing Obama to his race.

That's what we expect wing nuts to do, and that's what they have done to this president over and over again.

Not to mention, remember Geraldine Ferraro's comments about Obama? That he only got to where he is because he's black. Oh, Hillary's racist friends. Who could ever forget, may she rest in peace.

Remember what black people face when we're accused of only being successful because of affirmative action. That's what MM reduced the president to. He dismissed all of his MANY accomplishments and reduced him to only his race.

It's like saying that Thurgood Marshall was the first black Supreme Court Justice, but not acknowledging that he successfully argued against segregation in a landmark Supreme Court case that changed the trajectory of race relations forever. To say that Marshall was just the first black SCOTUS justice dismisses everything else that he accomplished.

I'm not sure why DUers are having difficulty seeing how offensive MM's comments are.

[raven mad]

112. This old white chick agrees 100%.

Thank you, Liberal_Stalwart - have blocked anything Moore from FB and other feeds. I am SO pissed at this asshole!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

204. Thank you! I appreciate this. :)

[joshcryer]

114. His tweet doubling down is highly offensive to me.

https://twitter.com/MMFlint/status/509831618132185089

I could have overlooked it if he backed off and admitted it was just some off the cuff remark amongst his fellow white privileged followers (he being a 1%er himself). But, no, the tweet he posted was disgusting, irreverent, hateful nonsense.

[JustAnotherGen]

128. What is the content of the tweet

Blocked by the network at work. Tky - jag

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

146. I tweeted him back and called him out. But I'm sure my 99% black ass don't matter.

[Number23]

196. No surprise there. Nor is it a surprise to see the folks in this thread supporting his comments

[Dawgs]

121. What does you being a black woman have to do with your rant? n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

147. Again, for the last time: MICHAEL MOORE BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE OF RACE!!!!!!

He reduced the president to his race.

Black Americans in this country are fucking tired of this shit!

We are much more than our skin color and should not be judged solely by that. For Michael Moore to dismiss ALL of President Obama's accomplishments (not just as the first black president), but all the good things he has done for this country, is just fucking unacceptable.

Now...

We can discuss our disappointments. I'm happy to have that discussion on where we disagree with this president, where we are disappointed in him, and where we think he has failed.

Michael Moore could have made these points effectively WITHOUT referring to the president's race!

As a black American woman, it is offensive. It is offensive as a black American. It is offensive as a woman. It is offensive, period!

And so I say it once more emphatically this time:

FUCK MICHAEL MOORE!

[Sunlei]

130. I agree, Mr. Moore insults & offends, however- "The rest of Pres. Os BIG DEALS need to happen now"

I love President Obama, he's the best President in my lifetime. I don't know how he puts up with the outright historic hate against him. The historic number of political attacks constant nagging, criticism, obstruction of OUR countries progress, RW hurts ALL Americans. raciest/ethnic hate hurts ALL Americans.

But I do appreciate MMs big mouth & publicity because it does cut through republican RW hates big mouths. His point stands alone, we need more 'big deals' like ACA and Gay rights 'big deals', and even those 'big deals' need much more progress & improvement, right now.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

131. as a nonblack person let me add a fuck you as well.

just because a liberal is a liberal, does not excuse when they say racially insensitive or racist things.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

148. I hope you know how much I appreciate this. Thank you!

[fadedrose]

151. He's got a lot of money now and he needs the Reps

because they don't like to tax the rich....

[Amimnoch]

157. I think he was an idealist, and expected too much from President Obama.

History on the board here shows he's not alone. Heck, some of the replies in this thread show he's not alone.

For the most part, I love Michael Moore. I like his passion. I totally agree with most of his views.

From the beginning there was an EXTREMELY high level of expectation placed on President Obama's shoulders. As early as the election primaries against Hillary, and then the General against McCain, there's been this sort of euphoric expectation that as president.. he could do anything.. he would do everything. Anytime anyone is placed on that high of a pedestal, disappointment is bound to happen.

Overall, I give President Obama a very high B+. I think part of that is my expectations were more in line with his capability in the executive office. Here's just a few reasons I think his greatness will be measured highly, not just being the first of his minority class to attain the presidency:

Passed the ACA. Sure, not a perfect bill by a long shot, but anyone who doesn't think this is much better than the prior nothing at all is living in a fantasy land. (although I did get a bit depressed that he didn't fight harder for single payer).

He led the draw-down of Bush's war in Iraq.

Osama Bin Laden

COMPLETELY turned around the dismal economy that the failure who preceded him created.

Championed and drove the passage of the Dodd-Frank economy bill which went a long way in increasing banking regulations!

Saved the US auto industry.

There have been more gay rights progression in his years as president, than happened during the combined term of the previous 43 presidents!

Murbarak of Egypt has been deposed due to his handling of US foreign policy. Can anyone doubt for a SECOND that had McCain or Romney been president that the foreign policy support would have been for Murbarak??

Let's compare.. America's image abroad in the world before President Obama, and after President Obama.

Now, if I was to be totally fair and grade our President with an F in any area, I'd have to say it's in immigration reform.. I'm hoping time before he leaves office that I can change that grade though. It wouldn't be the first time I thought he was going to be weak on a particular issue, and he proved me wrong.

[secondwind]

158. I AGREE! K&R

[BumRushDaShow]

162. K&R

I own DVDs of his "Fahrenheit 911", "Sicko", and "Capitalism: A Love Story", and have "Bowling for Columbine" & "Roger and Me" on my DVR. But it seems that he, like other "self-jilted liberals" like Cornell West, has chosen to stoop to the depths of uttering irrational purported "criticism" of the President in order to get some column inches and buzz going.

When one spends so much time "fighting" (the good fight) but can't seem to take the time to stop and smell the couple of nice roses that were successfully grown, then one ends up eternally bitter because they still don't have that perfect rose garden.

[heaven05]

163. I agree

very much!!!!!

[CakeGrrl]

164. Happy to K/R as

another black woman. Fuck Moore.

[Todays_Illusion]

174. Can this white person jump on this with you and add Jon Stewart and other rich and famous

I believe these are those mysterious left leaning libertarians, aligned with some of the tech billionaire libertarians, and

not that far from the more famous CATO.org libertarians.
and even though the Kochs want you to think they fear them only made that recording to provide cover.

This is their dark money organization, dark meaning hidden donors.

http://www.democracyalliance.org/

Most of all I wonder why the Democratic seem to be unaware of how much money and power and reach this g roup has and how long they have been busy undermining and taking over various once liberal organizations,

PBS, NPR, Democracy Now, The Nation, The Republic, Brookings Think Tank and and and

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

205. You are so spot on with this post! So incredibly spot on!! Thank you!!

[Todays_Illusion]

215. Is there anywhere on this site where this take over is discussed they have libertarians posing as

Democratic candidates and some elected. Of course they also have libertarian Republicans.

There is so much and I wonder why no one mentions it, ever?

[Norm Guy]

213. Stewart is a self-satisfied ass whose arrogance is in plain view

Too bad he's staying while Colbert is leaving for the Conformist Broadcasting System.

[Savannahmann]

175. I presume you've seen the offensive interview?

Because the interview was in connection with the 25th Anniversary of Roger and Me. Well, tell you what. Why don't you watch it for yourself?

Or are you suggesting that President Obama did save Detroit?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025499039

[FairWinds]

178. This is not a insult . .

"We were all overjoyed with President Obama's election. He's had to endure so much crap since. In spite of that he's done many good things. BUT there are still two yrs left -- and there are big disappointments amongst all of us. What would my fellow Obama voters like to see happen in his final two years? To be remembered a hundred years from now as the first African American president -- that's great, but it's not enough. And I know Mr. Obama agrees with that."

[Leontius]

180. Moore is absolutely right President Obama has done some good things

but if you're liberal then you've got to be disappointed that the promise and opportunity for really great changes in America was wasted. So much that could have been just left to wither and die. So much hope abandoned.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

249. Obama did not run as a liberal. There was nothing in his record that suggested such a

thing. He was not my first choice because of that.

If liberals didn't take the time to do their research, look into his record, listen to his speeches, respectfully it is their fault, not his.

One has to choose the candidate who best aligns with their views and values. Once we were left with Hillary vs. Obama, the choice was clear to me. It's like two mediocre choices--which one is less mediocre than the other? For me, it sure as hell was not Hillary and it won't be in 2016, either.

[DrewFlorida]

181. I agree, fuck you MM, FYVM!

[The_Commonist]

182. I think you've been suckered, and fell for a line of crap.

But that's pretty common around here. We are not immune to corporate propaganda, even though we might be "liberals." We are just as susceptible as the suckers on "the other side" to propaganda, and this MM bit has been played to the hilt.

Go watch that video someone just posted above. I think MM is absolutely correct. 100 years from now Mr. Obama will be primarily remembered as the "first black president." And there's nothing wrong with that. Obamacare, "getting" Bin Laden, keeping us from melting down even more from the Bush Depression are all great, but unless he makes some really bold moves in the next 2 years, he will be primarily remembered for... well... being the first black president.

I voted for him hoping he would make some bold moves, and he hasn't. Smart moves, yes. Cautious moves, yes. But not bold moves. It's not too late, but at this point, my expectations are pretty low. He has proven himself to be in the pocket of big business, and I don't expect that will change.

Don't be a sucker. It sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to be outraged. The propaganda did it's job.

[OilemFirchen]

190. Who's been suckered?

The entirety of the interview is, as you noted, available in this thread... and elsewhere.

Despite that, you paraphrase Moore's criticism thus:

100 years from now Mr. Obama will be primarily remembered as the "first black president."

Except that's not what he said, of course. Here:

"When the history is written of this era, this is how you'll be remembered: He was the first black president. Okay, not a bad accomplishment, but that's it. That's it, Mr. Obama. 100 years from now: 'He was the first black American that got elected president.' And that's it. Eight years of your life and that's what people are going to remember."

Don't be a sucker. It sounds like you're making up a reason not be outraged. The propaganda did it's (sic) job.

[KamaAina]

183. Let me add this.

Sideways.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

206. I'm slow.

[jonjensen]

184. to many being the first black president is enough, to others not so much.

When President Obama started it was the anti-war liberal democrats who backed his presidential bid and many of them now wish he had done more. Most of the african-american community switched from mrs. clinton to obama after iowa primary and now feel being the first black president is enough for them so this leaves the hispanic democrats in the middle.

[Cha]

226. No, it's not.. your analysis is wrong. President Obama is a great President and to say

that "being the first black president is enough" is ridiculous.

[Bohemianwriter]

188. If this administration had an ounce of decency...

...they would have dragged the bastard to court. He should have put OBL in the same cell as Cheney, Bush, Rice, Rumsfeld and others. They did it to the Nazis in Nuremberg.
What Obama have been busy with the last 6 years is to "look ahead" regarding his predecessors crimes, while persecuting, torturing, prosecuting the whistle blowers who tried to go the red tape in disclosing these crimes. Chelsea Manning got tortured for months under Obama, where he condemned Manning as "guilty" even before the trial, where he also made sure that the defense could not use any witnesses from the former government in their case.

In other words, that trial was a show trial. A warning to whistle blowers that exposing war crimes will be punished severely.
Gitmo is still open, despite the fact that practically all of them became victims of the "war on terror" and never was a part of it in the first place.
You have 5 000 civilians killed by drones, where as only 2% are even remotely suspected of "terrorism"...A word I now associate as a code word for "they hate us for our freedom" meme..

I haven't even begun ranting about his golf trips with Bohner, and trying to pall around the sociopaths on Wall Street and GOP.

I'm sorry. But the Democratic Party has become moderate Republicans of the 90's...Where real liberal voices are being scuffed at, and silenced by MSM.

I'm with Michael Moore on this one. I'm with anyone having been sold out by bluedogs with their hands in the pockets of corporations...

Now, to my question:

How many more kids do you want to send to continue fighting the war an ex. president (learning how to paint his toes in the bath tub) started?

&list=WL&index=2

I have already fought mine 20 years ago. I'm getting sick of people not knowing what war is, pushing for more wars...I dare anyone defending another "boots on the ground" action to volunteer themselves. If not, shut up...

Hope you can afford more expensive gasoline, more for Pentagon, and less for everything else...

[EEO]

217. Far too much explaining to do. When we need to go to war even the American people will know.

The more you have to justify an act of war the less solid the ground you stand on. When FDR requested a declaration of war on Japan on December 7th, 1941 his speech was about a single page. The American people knew war was necessary based on the facts. Prior to that Americans were still overwhelmingly in favor of isolationism despite FDR's best efforts to help Great Britain fight Germany (and Hitler did FDR a favor by declaring war on the United States on December 11th, 1941 for some unfathomable reason).

If you have to make a case for war for months or years, like GWB and now Obama, you are looking for a fight.

[bluebomber]

203. Honestly

I never liked Michael Moore to begin with; he always made think of a bloated blowhard.

[UTUSN]

221. R#112 & K n/t

[riderinthestorm]

238. As a biracial woman, no. Just no to your post nt

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

242. That is your right, respectfully.

[Quayblue]

239. rec'd earlier

Kicking now.

FOH. BHO is full of grace.

someone here on DU said there is intergenerational patience in black folks. I salute the President for it.

[WestCoastLib]

240. As a black man, I disagree with your stance on this

But you are welcome to it, of course.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

241. Well, I appreciate that.

[msanthrope]

250. This white girl is getting mighty sick of the disaffected white man opening

his yap and talking about gender and race....the same fucking assholes who mansplain to me just how fucking feminist they are all think they are so fucking progressive about race that they can say shit like MM did and it's not racist because THEY don't see it as racist.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

251. PREACH!!!!! (thank you)!!

[msanthrope]

255. Greenwald, Snowden, Assange, Manning, Moore...the top of the

privilege chain can all go to hell as far as I am concerned, and take with them their fucking whining about what they don't have, and their goddamn 'principles.'

And it's on DU, this privileged bullshit. Between calling the President a piece of shit used car salesman and being defended for it, and posting racist depictions of him.....there are white, "progressive" posters who really think they are in the position to be authoritative about racism....check out the exchange in this thread (this is an example, as opposed to a callout, since I think it's endemic here.)


http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10025348841

[LawDeeDah]

253. Moore was Hugely dissappointing in what he said.

I can usually overlook his sometimes unwise remarks, but this one is not so easy to let pass. This one is some ignorant ramblings from a racist idiot or a tone deaf asshole.

Fuck off, Mikey.