Was Joan Rivers murdered?

[dixiegrrrrl]

Yorkville Endoscopy Medical Director Fired

BREAKING: Medical director of Yorkville Endoscopy where #JoanRivers went to cardiac arrest is out," the network stated. "He is no longer performing procedures at the clinic." (A rep for the clinic has confirmed to TMZ that Dr. Lawrence Cohen has been on administrative leave since Aug. 28.)

the comedienne and E! Fashion Police host stopped breathing while undergoing an outpatient procedure on her vocal chords on Aug. 28 and was later pronounced dead at the age of 81 on Sept. 4, at New York City's Mount Sinai Hospital.
Nearly a week later, the New York Daily News reported that an unplanned throat biopsy led to her untimely death.

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/joan-rivers-death-yorkville-endoscopy-medical-director-fired-2014129

the source is a bit glossy, but the facts are accurate, as stated in other news.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. I think you mean "was Joan Rivers the victim of medical malpractice"

which isn't "murder"

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. I actually do not agree there is any difference

between me killing you and your doctor killing you, except the technique.

'The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name.'
Confucius

[cali]

11. what you think is just not how it works legally.

in any case, murder is about intent differentiating it from manslaughter. Do you seriously think that the doc intentionally killed her?

[TheNutcracker]

12. She was the victim of a "for profit" healthcare system

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. Murder presumes premeditiation or willful and wanton disregard for human life.

At least in the legal sense.

[Kelvin Mace]

2. "Murder" has a very specific legal definition

I don't think malpractice meets that definition. You may want to change your post title.

[malaise]

10. There were rumors of a law suit coming

Even before they took her off life support. Now they're setting the stage.

[hlthe2b]

3. Actually, the facts are very much in question--as to any biopsy having been performed

as well as some other aspects of current reporting.

[Initech]

4. Murder? No. Victim of medical malpractice? Most likely.

Murder is taking things a bit too far.

[FSogol]

5. Some victim of her insult comedy went thru medical school, got a job

at the Yorkville Endoscopy Medical Center, and then bided his time! The perfect crime!

[jwirr]

6. There may have been a mistake of some kind but when I first heard about this I (who am 73 years

old) said, "For God's sake she is 81 years old." When I had my last endoscopy they warned me that things can go wrong.

[unblock]

7. i'm confused as to who is alleged to have done what wrong.

was it a mistake to perform the biopsy at all (given her age, perhaps)?

did the medical director perform the biopsy or did he allow the doctor joan rivers brought with her to do it (and if so, was that the mistake)?

was anesthesia involved, and was that the problem (and if so, who was the anesthesiologist)?

or is it that none of this actually caused the cardiac arrest, but that whoever was in charge didn't handle the cardiac arrest properly?

[malaise]

9. Anyone who thinks that an 81 year old can have any

medical procedure with no risks has no understanding of the process of old-age.

[WillowTree]

13. Anyone who thinks anyone of any age can have any medical procedure without risk.......

.......is a victim of the same lack of understanding.

[zappaman]

15. Exactly.

[madokie]

16. I read that in either this morning or yesterdays paper

Let me tell you my story.
When I got married my new wifes 97 year old grand mother wanted to move back to her home, even though it was pretty run down and all and have her grand daughter live, take care of her, in her last days on this earth, grand daughter being my love, my wife. I fix the old house up to where we could live in it and we moved in and had her moved back here from Arizona so she could live out her final days at home and we took care of her until about 4 months before she died. She died at the ripe old age of 102. That was not the story. this is: The last two or so weeks of her life were a living hell and I mean a living hell. We had to put her in the nursing home as she got to the point where we, along, with a home health aid couldn't take care of her anymore so she was moved to the Nursing Home. Time rocked along there for a few weeks then her body started shutting down, one organ at a time. They sent her to the hospital and at the hospital they'd start calling to say that tomorrow they'd be doing exploratory surgery to see why whatever organ was shutting down was shutting down and sure enough they'd operate and close her back up and say theres really nothing they can do and then in a few days the hospital would call us and tell us what they were doing the next day or even sometimes that evening. We'd go to be with her but as we all know you can't be in the operating room so we, her family, would huddle in the waiting room worried to death about this 102 year old lady who was ready to die as she told us so many times because she had gotten to the point of where she couldn't take care of herself, couldn't feed herself couldn't think clearly like she was able to up to shortly before we had to give up taking care of her at home. Anyways after about three or four of these exploratory surgeries one evening when they were fixing to do another one of these and when the doctors came in to tell us what they were going to do and all that I came un glued. I said to them, in my most ass chewing voice as only I have, what the hell are you doing this to this old 102 year old lady who all she wants is to be left alone to die as she knew she was going where the streets are paved of gold and was looking forward to that, anyway I chewed their asses out up one side and down the other as I can do and you could have heard a pin drop in that hospital it was so quiet when I stopped and turned away from them back to her, my, family then, and set down tears streaming down my cheeks. They done an autopsies on this lady while she was still alive. I asked them if the driver in all this was to get the money from the government for doing these highly unnecessary, not going to save her life by any stretch of anyones imagination, exploratory surgeries. All the doctors and the hospital was doing was padding the bill to Medicare for all this. I still to this day think I should get a lawyer and see what can be done about this even though its been 20 years ago. The doctor who was doing all this cutting open on this old 102 year old lady is one of the doctors who is on staff at the VA hospital where my primary doctor is today. I don't know if he still remembers me but I damn sure do him. I'm sure he does as I was on him like stink on shit. I made sure that when I had to be hospitalized there at the VA for a DVT that he was not to be anywhere near me or have anything to do with my care one way or the other.
I don't know if I explained all this where anyone can follow my story or not. I do know my forte is not writing.
Now I go and have a good cry again as this has brought back some sad memories.

[monmouth3]

17. So sorry you and the wife and of course your GMIL had to go through this. Of course you

are right, the money was the main factor here. No good doctor would ever even suggest operating on a 102 year old person...

[Tace]

20. Madokie, I Understand Exactly What You Are Saying

I'm a news editor, and you are a good writer. Those doctors were assholes, and they knew it. Cheers, Tace

[PATRICK]

30. If one has

extensive legal and financial teams allied to one's extensive assets people get to work on malpractice issues immediately. The ordinary Joe is immediately confronted- in a very personal, painful moment- with the whole health care system, even beyond the well protected hospital resources. Only in the aftermath might that person wish to confront possible injustices and the harm done. In such a system it often seems in America that the rich tier more private health care system can also be a victim to, in fact, the same underlying problems.

Both my mother and mother in law were sent home and soon rushed back to the hospital- to quickly die. No postmortems or investigations or questioning of anything necessarily meant any wrongdoing. No one had enough anger or the heart to pursue possible wrongdoing. It is just the state of affairs the same as ordinary folks cope with the basic vicissitudes of life. For another issue, experienced by nearly all friends using Medicare or even Medicaid(testing not treatment) is the deep suspicion that over testing over charging and double billing is occurring all the time on the government tab. All would like to report this, some do, no one gets a lawyer.

[spanone]

18. 81 years old...murder? seriously? what, for bad comedy?

[joeybee12]

19. An interesting tidbit, the unnamed Director served as Obama's NY Co-Chair...hmm...the connection...

Made you look...I made that up...it will soon be news on Fox.

[octoberlib]

21. The NYT has a good article on the whole situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/nyregion/doctor-present-at-joan-riverss-procedure-was-not-authorized-at-clinic.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar

[markpkessinger]

22. "Murdered?" Seriously?

Ms. Rivers may or may not have been a victim of medical malpractice -- at this point we don't really know. But 'murder' has a specific legal definition which, so far, there has been no evidence to support. Your post's headline, as it currently stands, amounts to little more than conspiracy- or rumor-mongering. Shameful!

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Oy vey

[951-Riverside]

24. Yes. She exposed the truth so they took her down to send a message.

This was clearly a vast HAMAS conspiracy to stop Joan from selling quality yet affordable products on QVC and to also stop her from speaking ill of Hollywood actresses .

but the public is still asleep and I'm afraid they won't wake up until the warm, fleshy massive all feeling eye is slapping them in the face.

[MiniMe]

25. Untimely death?

At 81, death is not untimely. She seemed to be in good shape for her age, but death is not untimely in an 81 year old woman. Any surgical procedure has risks at any age.

[MADem]

26. Incompetence killed her. Is it murder? A court will have to decide. nt

[Princess Turandot]

27. According to the NYT article, there was an ENT doc in the OR who was not formally credentialed...

to practice at this center, as is required by various health laws/regulations. She or he was brought in by the medical director who was terminated.

I do not think for a minute that this ENT doctor was not fully qualified as a physician: if nothing else, for such a celebrity patient, they would not have dragged in some schlub.

However, my guess is that the presence in the OR of that non-credentialed doctor for consultative purposes (which is far more than their being there just to observe) may constitute a violation of the terms of their malpractice insurance coverage. It may well void coverage in this case, and a large malpractice award would likely then become a calamity. (If insurance coverage is voided, they also would not have the insurance-paid malpractice attorneys to defend them.) That may be a major reason why he was fired, more so than the bad outcome.

BTW I've had GI procedures done both at hospitals and at the office of a physician who has an in-office OR facility. The private office route was less stressful and more convenient. There was nothing wrong with hospital treatment but there is definitely more rigmarole involved. But still, at 81, the risks of some bad reaction are higher than when the patient is a forty-something.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Yes. By Obama.

No, I'm not joking - there are people out there who believe this.

[Vinca]

29. No, but it was probably unwise not to have done the procedure in a hospital.

Malpractice maybe.