I was punched in the face as a kid by a stepfather

[Demonaut]

and switched and had a belt many times, kicked and threatened with my life if i spoke of any of it.


violence breeds violence, one reason I've never had kids is the terror I might bring upon them.

fuck that asshole for beating a four year old, it will never stop there.

[NaturalHigh]

1. I hate to hear that.

The kids I often speak of fondly are actually my stepkids, and I would never strike either of them. They've been grounded a few times, and that has always worked for discipline. Of course, it helps that my wife is a near-perfect mom.

[Logical]

2. Thank you for posting this! nt

[indie9197]

3. Damn

I have never been in your situation. It is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. There needs to be increased social stigma against kid beaters and wife beaters. Laws don't seem to help.

[pnwmom]

4. Thank you. I'm sick of the abuse-deniers/enablers who've been posting that being hit

wasnt bad for them. If their lives are okay now, it's DESPITE their childhood abuse, not because of it.

[Cleita]

5. I believe you and the fear you have of beating your own kids.

My own father told me the same thing. He was beaten by his father and he was 46 years old before he had me, his one and only child. I asked him why he waited so long and he told me he was afraid of what he might do. He did keep his relationship with me rather distant.

[NYC_SKP]

6. My sister tells me that my hearing loss is due to my mother's smaking me in the head.

I had two ruptured eardrums, even mother admitted that.

I think more people are suffer from abuse than is understood, and the perpetrators can be young or old, male or female.

[chervilant]

7. I am the only one of five sisters

who elected to remain childless -- in large part, because I grew up in a toxic, violent home with an unpredictable, alcoholic father.

I recently posted this on Facebook, thinking about my childhood and all the news about violence against children:

"Anyone can have a child, and call themselves 'a parent.' A real parent is someone who puts that child above their own selfish needs and wants."

Having read all of Alice Miller's work, I was struck by the irony of this homily. What IS a real parent? Would we know one if we saw one? Isn't this adjuration exactly what Miller addresses when she describes our species' poisonous pedagogy?

There are far too many people on this planet who should not be "parents." Many of us are quick to react defensively whenever anyone casts aspersions on "parenting," particularly those of us whose parenting -- or parents -- might be perceived as less than stellar. My baby sister thought my post was about her, adding another layer of irony to this rather provocative homily. I was thinking about child abuse when I posted it-- and growing up with abuse and electing not to have children because of it. Miller is spot on about our species' parenting issues!

[BanzaiBonnie]

18. Thank you for reminding me of Alice Miller

I still have my copy of For Your Own Good.

I understood what abuse does and what it did in my mother's family when I read that book.

[chervilant]

21. It took me almost forty years

to realize that my parents did the best they could with the skills they had. They were both teens when they married, and both had grown up in toxic households.

I had hoped that our generation (me and my sibs) would be key to stopping the cycle, but--alas--it was not to be...

[chervilant]

24. I have established

some boundaries with all my siblings. When I began to pursue recovery, they interpreted my actions as a judgment call on them. They are all about denial and minimization, and I get that these are coping mechanisms that 'work' for them. And, I get told what I "should" do and say almost every time I am in contact with them, so I find it better for my sanity to maintain a distance.

I had hoped our generation would break the cycle, but it's highly unlikely at this point.

[Cartoonist]

8. more anecdotal evidence

Just because some people survived abuse and led normal lives in no way excuses such violence. One of my brothers was beaten by my father. He retreated into a shell and was never the same. So FU to anyone who apologizes or excuses this shit in any way.

[Heidi]

9. Kick, kick, kick!

[freshwest]

10. I was beaten, etc. as a kid. I never saw it coming. It changed me neurologically and socially.

Last edited Sun Sep 14, 2014, 11:48 AM - Edit history (1)

I wasn't in denial and knew it was wrong. But I reacted to it differently than my sister, who wailed and didn't get hit. I was told if I cried, I'd be 'given something to cry about.'

So I took it, because as I have said, there is no help coming. There is no rescue. I have never let anyone see me cry in my entire life, and was also taught by others to never show any weakness. It's a survival tool and no doubt an unhealthy one. Instead I became angry, it stops the tears.

After a TBI, the PTSD welled up and I started to cry, and I thought I was going to lose my mind, that I would never stop crying. The place those tears came from, I don't know and don't want to know. Now I am older, and cry in private, often when reading things on DU. But no one gets to see me cry. And I'm fine with that, only share it with a few friends here.

At the time I didn't know curse words. In later years, I've wondered what words I would have given to an experience that was not allowed to be spoken. Oh, but I learned them all. The words in my mind then would have been as I was getting beaten, the feeling I had at the moment was, 'Yes, motherfucker, you're bigger than me, do what you're gonna do, give me your fucking worst, you won't break me and I won't cry for you.'

In those days, if that happened, or if someone got after one sexually, a person knew there was NO social support. There was NO ONE to tell as has been taught in more recent times.

I have been hyper-vigilant my entire life because of this and it's hard wired. Nothing will change it, nothing I've tried or any doctor has tried, save EFT worked. And damn, it's a horror to relive the body memories again. I don't take abuse from anyone, and will not allow another to be abused. I do not make any apologies for my attitude.

I resolved that I would never spank my child, even though many said I should. It made me want to vomit. I have been estranged from family as they didn't want to know as it was a danger to their security and made them uncomfortable. It was never said, but it was unspoken. People know what is going on.

Oddly enough, the person beating me went to a psychiatrist for anger management on his own, seeing the profound effect it had on me. That was half a century ago and unusual, but he paid out $100 a session every week to figure what he had done wrong after I avoided him like the plague. He even took me to the same doctor, who wanted to 'talk to me.'

We both skated around it. I mean, my abuser was in the waiting room and paying the bill, too. Get real! This went on for a few months and I finally looked at the doctor, and I was all of 13, and I actually said in words to this affect, or very very closely, 'Look, I'm not crazy and this is costing a lot of money. You and I both know what's going on. Now we'll just keep on seeing each other for a few more weeks, and then you tell him I'm cured.' He agreed, saying he'd miss our talks. He was a WW2 vet who'd lost a leg, had a 'classy' manner to him, and we'd discussed interesting things, but not the issue at hand. So and we met a couple of more times.

Nothing in my life changed except not seeing the nice leather furniture in the fancy office but the beating had stopped as the person in question had repented, I guess.

Oh, and as far as me laying down on a shrink's couch which they always have in their offices? Anyone thinks I'd do that has gotta be kidding, so they can get the fuck away from me.

But not long after, as the main protagonist in this little story, and he was dying, I remember him watching me from the couch in the living room, wistfully. He wanted to talk to someone. I was still afraid of him, and loathed his presence.

Yet I loved him for who he had been at other times. If I had known he was dying, I might have said something to him. By that time I made sure I was never alone with him and stayed out of sight. I did what I had to do for my own sanity, but in later years wished we could have worked things out for both our sakes. But he didn't live to see me grow up.

I've commented on this in the latest outrage threads, but my outlook is bleak when I read these stories. People need economic security and will put up with abuse to get it, sadly. They also need someone to call their own. If the kid I believe is being discussed is the one I think it is, experience in later life has shown me that these families don't always break up. And we are not the ones who judge if there will or will not be a breakup. I've only said to accept that there is no final solution.

I remember in therapy, if discussions went that way, if there were men, they said they were sorry and they'd never have done blank. It puzzled me, as I didn't give a shit. I had no intention of letting an abuser within ten feet of me.

Not that I have rejected love, but being alone really didn't bother me as it's my default. I'm sure some will think that is pathetic, well, they should walk a mile in my body or they can just fuck off, it's all the same.

I remember doctors telling me if I told them this stuff to find out why this and that, 'That it's all good because it made you who you are and you're good so it's good.' They were trying the little 'All I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten' routine.

They didn't know what it felt like in my flesh, in my mind, my soul to go through that when I had close to an out of body experience. It changed everything.

So they made themselves comfortable. I rolled my eyes with my unspoken, 'Gee, thanks for nothing, and fuck you very much.'

But I won't stand by and condone or allow abuse. Because I know that it never goes away. Period.

The only solution I've seen is when a ton of positive reinforcement is given the victim,to push back the abuse in their mind to function day to day, beneath their daily consciousness. But it never goes away.

Anyone can read this while you can, before I delete it. I'm just in a mood lately.

[Demonaut]

12. omg............you are me

wow

[freshwest]

13. Oh, and I edited it... Now tell me if it's still you.

[Demonaut]

15. in almost every aspect except the age of 15 I no longer had asscociation with my abuser

and yet at times later I fantasized about taking retribution upon him but with the sober realization that the retribution is
an extension of the abuse I endured.
a mobius loop of self destruction

and I'm sure you always root for the underdog...like me

[freshwest]

16. Mine died when I was 13. So for all time, 'the argument was over.' Yes, I'm always for the underdog.

[Demonaut]

17. best therapy I've had in years.....thanks!

I never speak to strangers about my past but this has been interesting
and enlightening

[Tsiyu]

14. I like what you've written here

because it spells out the fallout very well.

[BanzaiBonnie]

19. freshwest, I'm sorry that happened to you

I'm sorry you were failed by so many, including the bullshit from some who told you, you are good because it made you who you are.

You are a good person because you are a good person, not because you were beaten.


My mother is eighty and has only in the last few years shared that there were times she was beaten so badly by her father that she thought she was going to die. Her evaluation is that she is surprised that she didn't die. The beatings began at four years old. At that time, she was tasked with caring for four younger siblings: one three year old and a set of one year old twins. If the youngers, as they were called, did anything wrong, my mother would be beaten for it.

She's been medicated for years, for depression. And she's actually told me she doesn't know any reason she would have to be depressed. Gawd. It makes me feel sick to my stomach to know how she was treated.

We understand that the brain of the abused is forever altered and shaped by that abuse. I am thoroughly disgusted by some comments I've read on DU and I hold no truck with any of those who make the excuse that they were beaten as children and turned out fine.

[Heidi]

20. I agree, BanzaiBonnie.

Furthermore, I would assert that people who were beaten as a children and still support beating children most certainly did not turn out "fine."

I am thoroughly disgusted by some comments I've read on DU and I hold no truck with any of those who make the excuse that they were beaten as children and turned out fine.

[raccoon]

23. Great post. thanks for posting that. nt

[JDPriestly]

11. Hitting a four-year-old is completely unnecessary.

As well as cruel. Four-year-olds can reason. There is no need to hit them if you have just a little patience.

[deafskeptic]

25. I know where you come from.

I've never had any children because I did not want to become like my mother who would belittle her own children, slap them, and otherwise mistreat them. Nor did I want to marry someone like my Dad who could be arrogant , belittling, harsh and extremely controlling .

Also, I was certain they would try to take my own kids away from me because of my deafness and supposed low IQ. I never had any kids nor have I ever married. Many people think that deaf are low in IQ because of poor hearing.

I'm also very leery of trusting anyone with high status like politicians, doctors, or lawyers because they can abuse their authority with ill intentions. Let's say one of them is related to you and then they tell your own doctor that you have a low IQ. That's one such example, I could count a few other examples.

When I have spoken of my issues with people who grew up in families like mine or work with families like mine, they say I'm not imaging things when I say stuff like this. I just wanted freedom away from all this.

[deafskeptic]

26. it wasn't all verbal abuse.

I remember going to school one day with a bruise on my face.

I remember my 4th grade teacher asking me about the bruise on my face.

I remember being embarrassed because now everyone would know how bad I had been. I didn't want to talk about it but I had to because my teacher was an adult. I told her that I got slapped for talking back to my Dad during a homework argument. In those days, talking back to adults was one of the worst things kids could do. And now everyone knew I had been a bad girl and that's why I deserved a slap in the face.

I've been spanked with a belt. All the adults I knew were in favor of that. It stills dismays me that even now that some favor corporal question as the solution and are disdainful of "librual" ways of raising kids. Many adults I know seem to think it's acceptable.

[moriah]

27. I was only abusively switched once, and because of it, will never spank my own kids.

When I was really little, my grandmother would switch me -- from 3 til about 6 or 7 -- for things like getting into my mother's makeup, for instance, or breaking my sister's music box her dad gave her trying to take it apart to see how it worked. I never recall pain or marks or bruises -- just that I was dreading the spanking because it meant I was in trouble. I remember going to my room and hiding to try to avoid the switching, and after me doing that a few times, and breaking the switches into little pieces after every spanking, the spankings stopped. Or I just got old enough to not do the things that they felt merited a switching.

I have a feeling that she really wasn't even hitting me with the switch, or else just barely tapping me. (They might have stopped for another reason, also, which I'll get into here later).

When I was 11, however, I willfully defied my mother for the first time ever. I'd had far worse abuse in school than I ever had at home, if you count tapping a 3 year old with a switch as abuse -- two concussions and a broken arm in one year alone -- and I was going to a new school and the bullying was starting again. I complained to the school officials myself, but they had done nothing to fix it, and I was injured the day before at school. I was determined it would not happen again.

So I refused, flat-out, to go to school that day. I'd told Mom that the night before, but she thought I was being dramatic. Nope, I was serious. I'd had it.

Looking back, I know that Mom really didn't mean to be abusive. She was a single mother trying to support me, she had to get to work to pay the rent for the roof over our heads, and here I was blatantly defying her, making her late for work. She, too, was sick of me being bullied, but really didn't have any idea of a way to stop it then. She was frustrated. She was angry. And she lost her temper.

She said she would spank me (the very first time, ever, that she ever had or did since) if I didn't get my butt dressed and ready for school in 10 minutes. I mouthed off to go right ahead and do it now, because I STILL wasn't going back to that school again. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for her. She went out and found a tree, broke off a switch, and told me to remove my PJ bottoms and underwear and stand laying over the bed. I figured a spanking was a heck of a lot better than another concussion or broken arm, so accepted the pain. I'd had worse. I didn't cry. I didn't scream. I refused to show that it hurt. I was mad enough, anyway, myself, that it really didn't hurt much at the time.

After probably 5-10 minutes, she stopped and looked down at my butt and legs. I remember her saying "Oh my God...."

I'm a ginger. Gingers often have a condition called "dermatographia", where scratching or pressure on the skin will cause them to basically have an allergic reaction. The skin hives up. If my grandmother ever switched me hard enough to cause that, that might have been why she stopped using a switch, but my mother was never part of my discipline at that age, as she was in college and working full time too. Because Mom was so angry, she wasn't looking at what she was doing, she was taking her frustration out with the switch. She'd switched over the welts, causing the skin to break and draw blood, and not even realized she was making me bleed until she looked down.

Needless to say, I didn't go to school that day. If a teacher had seen it, Mom would no doubt have been reported to DHS for child abuse. It healed in a few days, and by then Mom had made arrangements to get me enrolled in a very small private school for gifted children, and got them to approve me for a scholarship because there's no way she could have afforded it herself. And she never spanked me again.

(When they could no longer afford to keep the financial aid going, I had to go back to public school, and again had to deal with bullies -- once, I handled it by just saying "Okay, go ahead, hit me!" to the girl who was threatening to beat me up in school, and let her punch me in the face twice, but egging her on each time -- "Is that the best you can do? Go ahead, hit me!" "You fight like a girl!" C'mon, hit me!" Yes, she was a girl, but it just came out. I never hit her back, though. I just got enough attention drawn to the situation that the school officials intervened and served the suspension they deemed appropriate for both of us, despite numerous witnesses stating I never touched her. While I was gone, a rumor started circulating around the school that I knew martial arts and had planned to beat the living hell out of her when she threw the third punch. No one else messed with me at that school again. I guess "Turn the other cheek" does work!)

--------

My views on spanking are influenced by this incident for two reasons. One, physical discipline, if it is going to be used, should NEVER be used while the parent is angry. But by the time the parent has gotten their own emotions under control and a non-abusive spanking could happen (if there is such a thing), the parent would have had to implement some other temporary punishment in the interim, like grounding or a time-out. So why is the spanking even necessary, if there are other punishments that will work? I basically voluntarily gave myself time-outs as a kid to avoid Granny's spankings, but a time out would have worked, too, without the threat of a switching.

Second, spanking doesn't work. I got my way -- I didn't have to go to school that day. When a person is exposed to physical pain enough, it becomes less of a deterrent. I'd had enough from the bullies that Mom's switching was nothing in comparison, and was willing to invite being hit if it would make sure that an adult witnessed the assault when it came from another child. The worst punishment my mother gave me when I was a teenager was making me take the modem out of my computer so I couldn't get online for two weeks (for running up the phone bill downloading files for my BBS). I never made another long-distance call on that line again. Taking away privileges works far better than any spanking.