General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat event led to the creation of ISIS?
Was it the dismantling of the Iraqi Army by Paul Bremer and the American occupation forces?
Was it the election of Maliki and the Shia government, with close ties to Iran?
Was it the civil war in Syria and the atrocities committed by Assad?
Was it the premature withdrawal of American forces by Barack Obama in 2011?
Or was it the invasion of Iraq by George W Bush and Dick Cheney in 2003?
Was it not the invasion by the Bush regime that was the primary cause of all of the above? And are we not seeing the results of that disastrous decision by Bush and Cheney to invade Iraq?
Why cannot the Democrats discuss "primary cause"??
TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)It was "shock and awe."
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)as occupiers would have made them constant suicide bombing targets, and would now be drawing us back in to a ground campaign as a tripwire, with Sunnis and Shia at each other's throats. That said, it was the destabilization of Iraq, the pissed-off Sunnis who want power and revenge in response to the power and revenge the Shia now exact upon them, and the Syrian civil war that gave them a place to congregate unmolested.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)that talked about this topic. The history of dysfunctional groups in the area goes back thousands of years. The British stirred things around a lot in the earlier part of the 1900's and now we are doing our part. The Kurds are actually the largest population in the area and the only significant group without their own country. The speaker had a few choice comments re Bush/Cheney. He showed lots of quotes from military folk testifying before Congress saying it was pointless to keep putting people into the area. Your questions are all very current. The history goes back, way back. I got the impression there is not a lot anyone can do. The Arabs have to do this. The speaker stressed over an over again that we have no idea of culture and history in the area and this means we take our plans in and never will that work. Sorry!
kentuck
(111,053 posts)...even if Bush had not invaded in 2003?
Of course, the problems in the area have been there since before WWI but the question is would it have disintegrated regardless of what we did in 2003?
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)But there might have been something else. No invasion means nothing would have stirred things up. The stir up, the scramble led to ISIS. But the situation prior to invasion was not good.
kentuck
(111,053 posts)...but stable? At least, moreso than the present?
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)I got the feeling the area was sort of under control, but hot. I was not thinking along these lines as I was listening. I was fascinated with the history, the arbitrary way the lines were drawn to form nations -- not sensible, the tribal aspect of relations between people groups. I'll look up the name of the guy and see if I can find anything he might have on line.
kentuck
(111,053 posts)of the warring tribes of that area and the beginning of British involvement.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)www.facebook.com/farouk.alnass
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)kentuck
(111,053 posts)... who picked up a rattlesnake during one of his services and was bitten on his hand. After a few day days, it had turned green and gangrene had set it.
When he went to the hospital to have his hand amputated, he could never admit that the reason his hand had gangrene was his handling of the rattlesnake.
That is what the embeciles Graham and McCain remind me of...
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
kentuck
(111,053 posts)Why didn't anyone else think of that!?
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]The night is always young. It's never too late.[/center][/font][hr]
kentuck
(111,053 posts)Doesn't help much in the present discussion.
spanone
(135,795 posts)bu$h/cheney = war criminals
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)The destabilizing of Iraq by George Bush and Dick Cheney.
It was not the withdrawal. The forces couldn't stay there forever. If 8 years, trillions of dollars and thousands of lives couldn't fix it, it was never going to be fixed once Bush and Cheney broke it. It was destined to fail the second we invaded.