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diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 09:07 PM Sep 2014

Are we seeing the devolving of America?

My wife posed this question to a group of friends and myself and she gave the following as an argument:

Just this weekend we had a Pro-football player who physically abused his son (regardless of how old the child is) and yet his employer the Vikings are going to allow him to play because they got their (a$$) handed to them on Sunday's game. So therefore someone so skilled at entertaining people and generating millions of dollars for a team is going to get a pass by the employer;YET, we have fast food workers or restaurant servers getting fired for complaining about a bad day at work or bad customer treatment. They are fired because that complaint "Looks bad for the company's image."


We have a Beautiful African American actress being cited as a prostitute because she dares kisses her boyfriend in public...A boyfriend who happens to be white. No money was exchanged yet a kiss now indicates someone is a prostitute.

(My wife said she wasn't going to go into the Ferguson and Zimmerman issue other to say: ) We have a serious problem with racist that is being ignored for years... political correctness placed a pretty band-aid on a wound that should have been treated and fixed but instead has been allowed to festered and now is causing the "patient to lose an arm".

We have GOP candidates and politicians having some Americans believing they are being "forced" to want to go to college. That if you are lower class you should be happy to settle into a low paying job and that politics are too complicated for the average citizen to understand....

We have Corporations controlling our government and are basically using the employees that work for them as either political props during elections OR just as cheap labor and we are seeing people being misused in the work place.

We have senators and congresspeople who would rather listen to a lobbyist than listen citizen in his or her own state.

We have at least 2 generations who see unions as complete evil things and not the employee advocates they are.

We also have people who don't understand or even know/remember the struggle of past generations who fought for our 40 hour work week and child labor protection. They either haven't learned about the Triangle waist coat factory or company towns.

We see fundamental christians who want to destroy science and GOPers like that idea because as science falls so does history.

Our country should be leading the world in Min wage and vacation time and work hour innovation but we see Western Europe taking that lead.

The newsroom opener was right: We aren't the greatest country in the world. We need to accept that fact and eat a huge piece of humble pie.

But my wife wonders if we have fallen so far down the "devolving whole" or can we stop this and climb back to the greatness we had before America got a big head and placed itself on the pedestal it placed itself upon.


So call it being bored on a Monday evening but I bring this debate to DU.


EDIT:

I do apologize for the smiley face that appeared during the Zimmerman/Ferguson paragraph. I was doing a : ) but put the ) too close which must have resulted in the smile... So sorry.



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Louisiana1976

(3,962 posts)
1. It seems we're in a complicated mess. For starters, we need a Democratic candidate in 2016
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 09:17 PM
Sep 2014

who's a real alternative. Hillary won't cut it--she's to the right of Obama. We need a Democrat who, with the help of a Democratic House and Senate, will undo the devolvement that began when Reagan took office.

al_liberal

(420 posts)
3. I was hoping for the same in 2008
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 09:51 PM
Sep 2014

I was for Edwards before he imploded. I was hoping to elect the most liberal president since Johnson. I voted for Obama in the primary because he was to the left of Hillary. I really hoped he'd be a transformational President from the left to swing the pendulum back our way.

Flame me if you want, but that hasn't happened.

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
4. Fictional Account Of How America Becomes Undone - Yes, The Empire Is Failing
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:19 PM
Sep 2014
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-it-could-happen-part-one-hubris.html

How It Could Happen, Part One: Hubris

" The news of the latest Tanzanian deepwater oil discovery broke on an otherwise sleepy Saturday in March. Thirty years before, a find of the same size might have gotten two column inches somewhere in the back pages of a few newspapers of record, but this was not thirty years ago. In a world starved for oil, what might once have been considered a modest find earned banner headlines.

It certainly loomed large in the East Wing of the White House, where the president and his advisers held a hastily called meeting that evening. “The Chinese already have it wrapped up,” said the Secretary of Energy. “Tanzania’s in their pocket, and there are CNOOC people—” CNOOC was the Chinese National Overseas Oil Corporation, the state-owned firm that spearheaded China’s quest for foreign oil. “—all over the place on site and in Dar es Salaam.”

“Is it close enough to Kenyan waters—”

Snip ...

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-it-could-happen-part-two-nemesis.html

How It Could Happen, Part Two: Nemesis

" The missiles and fighter-bombers launched from the fleet were the second wave of the American assault, not the first. Attack helicopters from Kenyan bases took off a few minutes later, but went in ahead to target Tanzania’s air defenses. Their timing was precise; by the time the first US jets crossed into Tanzanian airspace, the four military radar stations that anchored the northern end of Tanzania’s air defense system were smoking rubble. Real-time satellite images brought news of the successful strike to Admiral Deckmann and his staff aboard the USS George Washington, and to President Weed and his advisers in the situation room in the White House.

Those images were on the screens when the whole US military satellite system suddenly went dark.

In US bases around the world, baffled technicians tried to reconnect with the satellite network, only to find that there was no network with which to reconnect. NORAD reported that all the satellites were still in their orbits and showed every sign of still being operational, but none would respond to signals from ground stations or send data back down. Analysis quickly ruled out a technical failure, which left only one option; the president’s national security adviser glanced up from a hurriedly compiled briefing paper outlining that one option, to find the Secretary of Defense regarding her with a level gaze. She turned away sharply and snapped an order to one of her aides."

Snip ...

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-it-could-happen-part-three-to-brink.html

How It Could Happen, Part Three: To The Brink

" Back in the United States, few people had any clear sense of how bad the situation had become. The major news media, as they had done for decades, accepted whatever came from the White House and the Pentagon at face value. Internet news sites contradicted the official story in every detail, but the internet’s low signal to noise ratio made an accurate picture hard to assemble. Still, cracks were spreading in the wall of denial. The photo of the USS George Washington wrecked and abandoned on a Kenyan sandbar was an internet sensation; two members of the House of Representatives had called for hearings on the war, though their request was stonewalled by the House leadership; through the sullen air of late summer, a sense was beginning to spread that something had gone very wrong.

In the White House, President Weed did not need to guess. Reports from the US forces in Kenya came in daily via the diplomatic line; when Nairobi fell, after a bitter three-day battle near Konza, a new line was jerry-rigged from Kisumu in the far west of the country. Most of the news was bad. The Chinese had brought in more planes, as well as air-defense systems that were making B-52 raids from Diego Garcia risky—two of the bombers had been shot down by surface-to-air missiles already. Meanwhile, there was no way to get supplies in to the American forces and their Kenyan allies; another fleet could not be sent as long as Chinese cruise missiles might be waiting for them, and the loss of air superiority made airlifts equally problematic.

“We tried to get Predator drones in to hit their air defense radar, but they were spotted and taken out,” the DCI—Director of Central Intelligence, the head of the CIA—was saying. “Chinese technology is, well, as good as ours these days.” What he was not saying, Weed knew, was that Chinese technology was better than its US equivalents these days, and half a dozen other countries had the same advantage. The reason wasn’t a mystery, either; most of the officials in the room, starting with Weed himself, had taken donations now and then in exchange for promoting or approving programs that were far more profitable to their manufacturers than they were useful to the US military."

Snip ...

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-it-could-happen-part-four-crossing.html

How It Could Happen, Part Four: Crossing the Line

" The church bells rang all night; perfect strangers embraced and kissed each other or fell on their knees and prayed together, depending on inclination; a baby boomlet nine months later revealed how many Americans celebrated the sudden discovery that life would go on. Around the world, crews in missile silos, bomber bases and submarines sagged with relief as they got the order to stand down. In the US, the few police and National Guard units still barricading freeways and guarding government assets melted into the cheering crowds. The threat of nuclear war was past.

As a cold gray morning spread over Washington, though, Jameson Weed surveyed what was left of his presidency, and dropped his head into his hands. A negotiation team would soon be its way to Geneva to meet its Chinese and Tanzanian opposite numbers and settle on a peace treaty. No matter how hard the spin doctors worked it, he knew, that treaty would mean a bitter defeat for America, and his solid grasp of the realities of American politics told him exactly who would be blamed for it.

The treaty, as it turned out, was surprisingly generous. No one had to admit fault or pay reparations; the United States simply had to accept the status quo in East Africa and assign its rights over Diego Garcia—which was owned by Great Britain anyway—to the Peoples Republic of China. Since the United States had no effective way to contest either demand, there was clearly no point in quibbling. The treaty was signed at the beginning of October, and ratified by a glum Congress three days later."

Snip ...

http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2012/10/how-it-could-happen-part-five.html

How It Could Happen, Part Five: Dissolution

" Within hours, thanks to news media reporting minute-by-minute from St. Louis, word of the proposal to dissolve the Union circled the globe. The most common reaction was to dismiss it as an edgy joke. One pundit wrote hopefully that the prank might finally bring the convention to its senses. A few articles profiled the two delegates who had written the measure, giving them their first fifteen minutes of fame—they were back in the news two years later, on the occasion of their wedding—and then the media tried to move on to what it considered important news.

Over the days that followed, however, the proposal took on a life of its own. Across the country, in bars and living rooms and grange halls, people talked about little else; public meetings and rallies drew huge crowds, and with each passing day more of them backed the proposal. Meanwhile the online forum set up for comment on the convention’s debates crashed three times in as many hours, flooded by posts about dissolving the Union. By October 4th, the day that the proposal was scheduled for a vote on the convention floor, comments on the forum were running ten to one in favor of dissolution.

Politicians and pundits were discovering to their horror what more perceptive observers had noticed long before—that the United States had long since broken apart culturally, and stayed together only because the power of the federal government put disunion out of reach. Now, though, the unthinkable was an option. Every region saw a chance to get what it wanted without wrestling with the country’s yawning cultural chasms; western states in which up to 90% of the land was owned by the federal government, and thus exempt from state taxes and fees, ran the numbers and saw how easily they could balance their budgets once all that real estate fell into their hands; ambitious politicians on the state level began to dream of leading new nations; and the thought of getting out from under the massive Federal debt, by the simple expedient of dissolving the government that owed it, was on many minds. For them and many other Americans, dissolution seemed to offer dazzling possibilities, and few considered the massive downsides."

Snip ...

nruthie

(466 posts)
6. Without a doubt.
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:27 PM
Sep 2014

At this point I feel our country is built on quicksand and we're all slowly sinking into the mire. We've been devolving rapidly and now it's probably past the point of no return. As a senior citizen who has seen a heck of a lot of history I place the majority of our problems squarely on the propaganda machine at Fox News. They never underestimated the stupidity of a vast segment of the population. They did their job well. Now we have the best government money can buy. Just my humble opinion.

world wide wally

(21,740 posts)
8. Just the fact that the Republicans conspired to see the duly elected President of the country fail..
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 12:10 AM
Sep 2014

By proxy, they were determined to see the country fail, and with the help and cheerleading of Fox News, they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
This coupled with the previous disaster of a corrupt Presdent only out for the financial benefit of his cronies was devastating to our nation.

And that's how we got where we are.

The Wizard

(12,541 posts)
9. Reagan's legacy
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 12:15 AM
Sep 2014

The widest gap between the wealthy elites and everyone else, deliberately dumbing down the population for easier manipulation, propaganda on a scale that would make Goebbels blush and Pravda green with envy, the destruction of the middle class by crushing organized labor and shipping our manufacturing base., a general reduction in living standards excepting the wealth elites. Democracy transformed into an oligarchy.

SoCalDem

(103,856 posts)
12. Unsustainability or an Unwinding?
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:45 PM
Sep 2014

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) / Sat Sep-27-08 10:53 AM
Original message

We've all been given another warning. Now we must choose..


This whole Wall Street Debacle is just another "clue" to us all.
The warp-speed of our lives is at the heart of the "problem". We have been cultivated to believe that we must always GROW, always crave MORE, BIGGER, BETTER, SHINIER...at any cost.

America has believed its own press for far too long. Our "experts" make up statistics all the time. We are told routinely that we are the most generous, the smartest, the most prosperous, the healthiest, and yet none of that is true.

Most Americans live with TWO truths....the truth they see every day where they live and the "truth" they see & hear on TV.

We have always been "major-urban" and "rural-small town" and although small town people now have access to more than they used to, their mindset has not changed all that much since the 40s & 50s.. They are the LAST to see much real progress, and the first to experience a serious downturn in the economy, since they live on the fringe...

"Government" has a vested interest in growth at any cost. The "bigger" things get, the more complicated they get, and the greater the need for more legislation and more government hiring to oversee that growth (even though very little real oversight happens).

Bigger companies mean higher paid and more lobbyists are available to donate MORE money to campaigns.

Workers during the Industrial Revolution were told that machines would lighten their workload, and give them more leisure time...It did..The problem was that leisure time turned out to be unemployment, since fewer workers were needed once machines took over many of the more mundane tasks.

In the 20' s& 30s, workers were told that the automobile would provide them with an easier life, and give them mobility. It did, but it also created whole new industries that fouled the air they breathed, and put a whole lot of people on the move to areas that were fragile and not all that hospitable to the farming that followed.. Over-farming, led to the Dust Bowl and the demise of many of them.

In the 50's & 60's we were told that computers would some day make our lives and jobs easier. I dearly love my computer, but truthfully, once many jobs were switched from pencil-on-paper or people face-to-face, it made it quite easy to find someone across the world, who would work for a lot less, to do those jobs.

Every "advancement" has come with its own "destruct" button built into it.

Malls and discount centers were wondrous to people when they first showed up, but those "big-boxes" and the stores held within them, were owned by people elsewhere, and all the money poured into them, did not stay in the community where it was spent.

The local businesses that had once managed to satisfy all the needs and wants of the community, were suddenly no longer "good enough", and many people went from being proprietor of their own business, to hourly-paid sales clerk.

Advertising has groomed us to want more and more and enough is never REALLY enough. Big business has to grow bigger and bigger, so we must continue to buy and buy and buy some more...even if we cannot afford it...and more and more of us can no longer afford to keep buying.

We have houses, FULL to the brim with "stuff" and the only solution to that is to buy even BIGGER houses, so we can buy more stuff. The bigger the house, the bigger the payment, so many people are paying thousands every month so their dog & cat have a great place to lounge in all day, as they sit stuck in traffic and huddled in a cubicle at work..and their kids grow up in daycare with strangers, or wear keys around their necks so they can hang out with the dog and cat for 3-4 hours until tired-Mom and tired-Dad show up with KFC or pizza, sometime around 7PM.

Most of us no longer even know HOW to live simply. Our lives , and expenses have spun out of control . We have "stuff" that we can no longer repair or service ourselves (even if we wanted to or had the time to). Things we watch, listen to, or use to call each other, often come with complicated long-term contracts, and we are always searching for better "deals" and more sophisticated "features", even though most of us either work too much to have time to really use them much, or we end up unemployed and unable to even afford them.

The bind we find ourselves in, is this.. We have allowed ourselves to be taken in, and while we were "sleeping", the rest of the world has caught up with us, and in many cases, passed us up entirely.

When we left "Main Street" in the dust, we gave the corporations permission to leave US in the dust too, if the price was right.

We allowed our labor to be diminished in value, to the point that now our economy is 70% "service".. This only works as long as enough of us have the "extra" money for all that "servicing".

In less than 40 years, we went from being the breadbasket of the world, and the major supplier of "things" to the world...to an importer of food (costly to us and the environment, in many ways), and importer of things we used to make here, but no longer do.

A relative few have gotten incredibly rich from this whole change-over, but millions more have gotten poorer and sicker from it. The people we hire to look out for our well-being, have sold out to their corporate-funders, and while they have free rein to speculate and enrich themselves, the taxpayers are always called upon to "repair" their damage they do to the economy every 20 years or so. This is all done while we , the people, are told to stand alone, be responsible, look out for ourselves, plot our own journey, be resourceful, be entrepreneurial, take responsibility for our own actions.

It may be too late to unwind now, and I truly fear for the younger ones among us. The unwinding will come..it always does, and I probably will be gone when it happens, but I'm not sure that our country will survive in a fashion we would recognize when it's all done..

Initech

(100,063 posts)
13. No but Bush v. Gore was definitely our country's shark jumping point.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:37 PM
Sep 2014

Things haven't been the same since.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
14. Also, '9/11 changed everything.'
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:40 PM
Sep 2014

The level of militant social engineering by Big Brother and Big Biz is disturbing. Sadly I think it goes right over the heads of most Americans.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
15. We have a nation where it is not normal to stand up for rights
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 09:48 PM
Sep 2014

They say is not normal to speak truth to power.

They say it is not normal to believe in social justice.

They say it is not normal to mail your neighbor your poo.

I am not sure this nation anymore.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
16. Climb back up?
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 10:23 PM
Sep 2014

Never happens historically with the government intact. If there is a climbing back up it won't be the United States of America but her successor state(s).

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