General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSpanking is linked to changes in brain chemistry
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/early/2012/02/06/cmaj.101314It is ineffective:
http://www.hrw.org/news/2008/08/22/corporal-punishment-proves-be-discriminatory-ineffective
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/opinion/sendek-corporal-punishment/
It can lead to more aggressive behavior and bullying
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx
It negatively impacts cognitive development and can impede language development
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/10/16/peds.2013-1227
The body of research on corporal punishment is clear. It is damaging to children.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Thanks for the topic post.
littlemissmartypants
(22,632 posts)duhneece
(4,112 posts)compelled black parents to be harsher via corporal punishment...their children's lives depended on strict adherence to authority figures. Then one learns how violence can change the expression of DNA material, so there is a snowballing effect.
Now, how do we change all of that?
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Nonviolent conflict resolution, tolerance of others, patience, honesty, trust, generosity, internal self comforting, asking for help. Stop wasting time and money from all this unnecessary testing.
Train an "army" of therapists, social workers to help dysfunctional families become functioning families.
Real rehabilitation programs in substance abuse programs, juvenile detention facilities and prisons.
Begin modeling healthy behaviors on movies, tv, music, ads. Make doing good cool.
duhneece
(4,112 posts)I may be in love with you Shirley, I mean non-Shirley...and I'm a straight hetero 63 yr old...I do love your solutions and your mind/spirit/heart...
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)duhneece
(4,112 posts)Seriously, your mind, your solutions were so eloquently stated and so right on that I can only hope you are or become a frequent visitor to your county commission or city commission, that you speak often to your state and federal representatives and are part of your local democratic party.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)and then their crime rate went up, gun violence, and psychopathic bankers and capitalists then wars in the middle east and elsewhere
Just kidding.
Scandinavia has a long record on why not use your brain vs your emotions when you get angry with your child.
The US uses force in dealing with the world.
I wonder why.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)They are unwelcome.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)and their private upbringing of that child i affects society in school and adult life because of the behavior of that child's development.
Private lives ....?
This is a societal issue unless you and your family never ever see a human being again.
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)In the vast majority of cases involving child abuse, and in literally ever case of spousal abuse that I worked with in a long career in human services, the offender would state that "it was no one else's business" what went in in their home.
Usually, they would also attempt to isolate the family. Hence, I disagree with your last statement about never seeing a human being again.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)Never seeing or dealing with another human being again is impossible, even Ted Kaczynski couldn't do that, so the that's a logical and societal fallacy
I would like to see what the person I replied to has to say about this. Enjoy you as ever my friend.
I spent time with abused children myself in a residential center and many became abusers because the the 'private' life.
H2O Man
(73,536 posts)you were making a tongue-in-cheek observation, and wouldn't mind if I used it to raise a corresponding point. I am confident that we know each other well enough to know there's no disrespect, ever, in such comments.
The other person, I don't know. But I have noted an expressed discomfort with discussions about child abuse. And repeated reference to his/her family as a closed system. Maybe it's just a general belief, or it might be rooted in either childhood or recent experience. I'm not interested in putting any one on the "hot seat," but it is an attitude that is all too common in abusive households.
LiberalLoner
(9,761 posts)I grew up hearing about how they brought me into the world and could take me back out of it if they wanted.
I never doubted the truth of that statement.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"people intruding into other's private lives is clear..."
I imagine many half-wits believe empirical research is also intrusive... and unwelcome.
Ichingcarpenter
(36,988 posts)societal needs and individual needs which have nothing to do with Maslow
and takes us to a higher Philosophical level on what it means to be human as a social animal and the limits individuality vs societal needs.
So maybe we can educate the poster or at least get him to discuss these issues.
kcr
(15,315 posts)That poster isn't interested.
nolabear
(41,959 posts)It's not helpful, though I understand the temptation when you're really mad, to call people names. It drives them further into their familiar ways of thinking rather than convincing them to change, for the same reason physical punishment teaches avoidance rather than a more sophisticated way (eventually) of seeing things.
Johonny
(20,833 posts)and complain about "feminizing" men. It isn't just the idiot Rush out there. There is now a whole cottage industry of "experts" telling people that this evidence doesn't exist and spanking and switching is okay. Why can't we get actual studies on these subjects to the forefront of the conversation. It is maddening to hear people totally blow these studies off in the press for "In my day" type of lectures. It is encouraging that more and more places in the country are ending physical punishment of children, and more and more parental advice books steer away from it. It is maddening to hear your generation isn't as "tough" as the old from people because you are choosing to do something that the evidence is pointing out is so obviously the right thing to do.
I was spanked as a child, and suffer from the psychological effects to this day. It should NEVER be okay to hit a child.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I would argue that can be equally damaging in the long run.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Much harder to detect. But I'm certain it does similar things to the brain.
A child psychologist once explained it to me like this: There are certain points in brain development in a child when the neurons have to 'make a choice' at how they are going to make connections. For instance, my issue was I trusted my ex-husband even while he was emotionally abusing me. The psychologist said, after hearing my childhood history - narcissistic parents, physically abusive father, mind games, lies, changing the rules, etc - that my parents were poor models for decision making. A 'normal' parent will act nice towards people they like, act hostile towards people who are threatening, show love towards their child no matter how angry, set firm rules that are followed but will be flexible if circumstances change, they will listen to their child's point of view, and so on.
However, my parents tended to be 2-faced. We'd visit 'friends' and on the way home all my parents would do is complain about how stupid/ugly/fat/annoying the visit was. They would constantly gossip about their friends. They would force me to 'act nice' towards threatening people (a neighbor who was convicted of sexually assaulting his secretary). They changed the rules according to their whims. Many times I was punished because I had to break one rule to obey another one - the first one was usually new and never conveyed but when I broke it, suddenly it was far more important than the established rule. Also, things like constant invalidation of every feeling. "I'm hungry." "No you aren't, you just ate." "I'm sad." "No you aren't. Don't be silly. there's nothing to be sad about." "I'm scared." "Only babies get scared, you're a big girl, you can't be scared." "I'm so excited for the party." "Why do you get so crazy for parties? God, calm down already. You're too loud. It's just a party." And so on. There wasn't a feeling I had that my mom couldn't invalidate at warp speed.
My parents also 'gaslighted' often. They would tell you one thing, then deny later that they ever said such a thing and you must either be dreaming or making it up. One incident stands out in my mind - I was 5 and my mom told me that our next door neighbor, K, might be pregnant and that I mustn't say a word because she hadn't seen the doctor yet. Being 5, it slipped out of my mouth when playing with the other next door neighbor, who was 4. She told her mom...and it ended in a confrontation with K (that I witnessed) where my mom denied ever saying anything to anyone. K gently asked her if my mom might have said something around me. My mom flatly denied it - while I was standing there - saying, "Why on earth would I tell a *5* year old? That's just silly." Then the second K left, my mom let me have it, blaming me for not being able to keep my mouth shut, that I would never have friends if I couldn't keep a secret, that now K probably didn't like me anymore, and so on. My 5 year old mind was so overwhelmed, I remember just being terrified and being very hard on myself for being such a horrible person. A few years later, I remember saying to my mom, "remember that time you told me K might be pregnant?" and she was ADAMANT that she had NEVER done ANY SUCH THING, and that this must be more of my overactive imagination or vivid dreams.
The psychologist said the compounding effect of moments like that, where there is no trusting a parents' word or reaction to a situation creates a dilemma in the brain - do I trust my parents who(M?) I depend on for my very survival, even though they've shown me they aren't trustworthy or dependable, or do I shut everyone out and only trust myself, because clearly no one else can be trusted. My brain chose to trust my parents, because I depended on them for survival. I turned into a people pleasing, overly trusting, naïve model child. Other children's brains choose the other route (and often become problem children).
The result of that was I was unable to see the numerous red flags that led to my marriage...to a sociopath. In retrospect, after reading many books, there were many red flags but my brain chose to ignore them, as it ignored my parents' manipulations and lies. Because my brain is simply wired that way.
Anyway, that got long, but yes, according to a child psychologist (one who came highly recommended by my daughter's school because while I divorcing the sociopath, she had some issues that I felt needed addressing) it changes the brain. I'm not sure how you legislate against it though. I agree with making hitting illegal because it's a pretty cut and dry type of thing. Either you hit someone or you didn't. But yeah, emotional abuse is hard to measure. There are some master manipulators out there, for sure.
cali
(114,904 posts)niyad
(113,259 posts)presented, over and over again. one would think this obvious. but, given responses in various threads here, that is clearly not the case.