Fugelsang: "If you're too disillusioned ...

[Scuba]

[Bandit]

1. While I agree, I also hate to vote for the lessor of two evils.

Right now IMO Democrats are very close to Republicans on many important issues and I find that hard to swallow.

[progressoid]

2. It is frustrating.

Many of today's Democrats are the moderate Repubs I remember from my youth. But since today's Repubs are the Lyndon Larouche's of my youth, I can hold my nose and vote for the lessor of those two evils.

[Scuba]

3. That's what causes a lot of my disillusionment. In response, I've tried to get upstream ...

... helping vet and select candidates for school and county board, etc. I also make a point to vote in the primaries.

[JI7]

4. if you really feel that way why vote for a democrat

I wouldn't if I felt that way. In fact I would have left the party and go to support something else.

[jtuck004]

6. It takes more spine to walk off the plantation than to stay as a kept person, especially given

the choice between the two we have.

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. And it takes, still, more spine ...

to stay on the "plantation" and PLANT THE CROP YOU WISH TO SOW.

[yurbud]

10. the recent Zephyr Teachout campaign against Cuomo was instructive, as was Lieberman v. Lamont

In the Lieberman case, after losing in the primary, the corporate candidate went on to run as an independent.

I don't recall much talk in the mainstream press of him being a spoiler or sore loser, so we should follow his example.

Progressive Democrats should run in primaries, and if they don't beat the corporate tools, run as independent progressive democrats in the general election.

The corporatistas are too destructive to accept as the lesser of two evils.

[1StrongBlackMan]

12. Yeah ...

republicans have had a lot of success with that model ... so do Democrats (e.g., Nader). The first case resulted in the "I'm not a witch" and "We can always barter chickens for healthcare" candidates, and a Democratic General Election victory; and the latter resulted in a republican presidency.

I'm convinced that there are some on the Left (as well as one the right) that want what they want, without putting in the work regardless of what others want, as demonstrated by their willingness to put in the work. So, instead of putting in the work, you'd rather burn down the house ... so you can then whine about being homeless.

And to be clear ... Democrats mounting 3-rd party runs is a kin to burning down the house.

[yurbud]

15. The corporate Democrats are putting in the work, they're collecting the wads of cash

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. And "progressive" aren't putting in the work ...

and whining that they aren't collecting anything ... not votes/voters ... not achievement of their political objectives ... not wads of cash ... nothing but internet hero status.

[yurbud]

20. The problem is greed has a longer attention span and

Corporations even longer. Most people only think about politics when there's a crisis. Once that's fixed, we lose interest.

The only non-corporate bodies with the size and memory to have real influence are religion and unions. Religion had been co-opted by the rich and unions have been systematically attacked and legally weakened.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. I largely agree ...

but Unions ARE corporate bodies ... corporate bodies that support labor; but corporate bodies, none the less.

[yurbud]

25. The crucial difference:unions are one person one vote

Not one dollar one vote.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. True ...

But how much influence does the membership have over the leadership's political agenda ... other than, the threat of being voted out in the next union election.

[Mr.Bill]

8. Just keep repeating this to yourself:

Supreme Court appointments.

[jeff47]

9. That's what primaries are for.

Vote for the best candidate in the primary. Vote for the D in the general. Might have to do "lesser of two evils" in the general, but you don't have to in the primary.

It will result in ratcheting the party to the left, just like the same system has ratcheted the Republican party to the right.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. I hate the "lesser of two evil" frame ...

because since there are no candidates, perfectly in sync with more than one voter, all votes are for the lesser of two evils.

[Chathamization]

23. Yes. I’m not sure why people always forget that they choose the candidates for each party, the

candidates aren’t forced upon them.

[seveneyes]

5. The Disillusionist and The Church

[Enthusiast]

11. Fugelsang nailed this one.

Thank you, Scuba.

[Laelth]

13. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[marble falls]

14. And its a process they've been instituting since Reagan. Goverment doesn't work? Privatization.....

is what has really screwed things up.

[BobTheSubgenius]

16. How is "Fugelsang" not a household word?

This guy is brilliant; he has a way of encapsulating a whole concept in just a few words....and in a manner that is both amusing (although often in a gallows humour kind of way), and thought-provoking.

[lobodons]

19. Just 600 Disillusioned Voters

It took just 600 Disillusioned Voters in Florida to give us 9-11, Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the economic collapse, 10 Trillion added to debt (debt was being paid down under Clinton), Citizens United and Roberts and Alito on SCOTUS.

[Romulox]

22. Does the "inevitable" usually have to make this many excuses for itself? nt

[CrispyQ]

24. I think the entire electoral process is so corrupt that it hardly matters anymore.

Gerrymandering
Citizens United
Electronic voting machines - I don't care if there is a paper trail - once the vote goes through a tabulator it can be hacked.
A media that no longer does it's job, but rather the bidding of the giant corporations that own them.
A two party system where neither party represent labor or the middle class.


I still vote, but not with any enthusiasm or hope that it will change anything. I do it out of responsibility, that is all.

I will not know if I can vote for Hillary Clinton until my ballot is in front of me. (We really do need a 'hold your nose' smilie.)

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. AFUCKINGMAN to that!