Another Out Of Control Cop Story, But This Cop May Have Messed With The Wrong Kid

[appleannie1]

Cop version: "The driver refused to exit the vehicle. A struggle ensued, a Taser was deployed by the officer. The driver was finally removed out of the car. A struggle ensued once he was moved out of the car,"

A numbers of witness versions: "The cop was like, 'you want to mess with me,' and pulled out his Taser and tased him. I thought he shot him. Then he pulled him out of the car handcuffed him and drug him around the car,"
"It looked like he hit his head on the concrete. You could see blood coming out of his mouth. The cop put his foot on his back and moved it back and forth like he was putting a cigarette out and asked him, 'are you ready to get up now?' You could tell the kid was going into convulsions,"

Turns out the kid's dad is a cop. The FBI and Justice Dept. have been called in.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/09/16/1330050/-Another-Out-Of-Control-Cop-Story-But-This-Cop-May-Have-Messed-With-The-Wrong-Kid?detail=facebook

Hopefully this time, something will be done to stop this crap.

[Comrade Grumpy]

1. Good. This shit has to stop.

[7962]

36. +1000

[appleannie1]

2. Sadly the kid is in a coma because he had stopped breathing and was not given CPR

for over 5 minutes. If he does survive, he will probably have brain damage.

[justiceischeap]

12. Do we know yet why he stopped breathing?

The taser or the blow to the head?

[NutmegYankee]

16. It could be either.

If he had a heart arrhythmia the taser could have stopped his heart. Either way, it doesn't matter. The Eggshell Skull doctrine specifies that you have to take your victims as they are, in other words if you hit someone with a eggshell thin skull, you are just as culpable for the killing. You can't argue that the victim was fragile and therefore you aren't as responsible.

[justiceischeap]

18. I just read an additional article, it was the Taser that led to a fatal cardiac event

and I can't imagine the cop standing with his boot on the kids' back while he was convulsing did any good either. He's apparently being taken out of the induced coma and responding to stimuli but is still listed in critical condition.

[cab67]

20. He may not have hit his head.

According to some of the articles I've seen, the boy's family is saying his head didn't hit the pavement. In any case, the Taser probes hit close to his heart, which would definitely impact his heart's function.

[NutmegYankee]

21. I just mentioned eggshell skull because it applies in a case like this.

It wouldn't matter if he did have a heart condition. You are fully responsible for what you do to a victim, even if they had a frailty that made it worse.

This rule holds one liable for all consequences resulting from his or her tortious (usually negligent) activities leading to an injury to another person, even if the victim suffers an unusually high level of damage (e.g. due to a pre-existing vulnerability or medical condition). The term implies that if a person had a skull as delicate as that of the shell of an egg, and a tortfeasor who was unaware of the condition injured that person's head, causing the skull unexpectedly to break, the defendant would be held liable for all damages resulting from the wrongful contact, even if the tortfeasor did not intend to cause such a severe injury.

In criminal law, the general maxim is that the defendant must "take their victims as they find them", a quotation from the judgment of Lord Justice Lawton in R v. Blaue (1975), in which the defendant was held responsible for killing his victim, despite his contention that her refusal of a blood transfusion constituted novus actus interveniens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

[Xyzse]

3. Very sad, but I am hoping this leads to change.

[lpbk2713]

4. They're out of control.

I'm in favor of frequent psychiatric evaluations. And not just a quickie
wink and nod from the department good ole boy first aid guy. Clowns
like this kill and maim with little or no accountability.

[jwirr]

6. Psychiatric evaluations and back ground checks as far back as grade school. These guys are bullies.

[Ned Flanders]

24. background checks aren't working

I was floored when my best friend from high school got a job with LA County Sheriff's department; I couldn't see how he possibly passed the background, drug, and psych tests. Last I saw him was at his wedding, to which he was almost late because we had to stop at his other girlfriend's house to bring diapers for his new baby.

[bettyellen]

74. my cousin failed a psych eval- and rightfully so. but his dad knew someone.

[hifiguy]

10. The problem with a lot of cops

is that they are exactly the kind of people who shouldn't be allowed to have a dog, much less unaccountable life and death authority over human beings. Far too many cops are precisely the kind of people who shouldn't ever be cops.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. self-selection.

The kind of people who think 'Gee, it would be good to have a job where I get to carry around a gun, and maybe use it' are the ones who are going to apply to become police. Or the ones who think they need to 'clean up the scum'.

There's far too much evidence that in too many departments, especially in big cities, police also see themselves as primarily meant to respond to criminal acts, rather than engaging in activities that might prevent crime. A 'reactive' rather than 'proactive' approach to a 'healthy community'.

It's the same sort of way the medical system has seen itself for far too long. Rather than focusing on keeping people healthy, we ignore them until they're sick. There are programs and people in the healthcare field finally starting to push for proactive approaches to health, which will increase costs in the short term, but provide long term benefits for both the individual and society. (Healthy people are more productive and miss work less for one.)

[BREMPRO]

54. great perpective on the ills with our societal and governmental behavior

wish more people would think like this, proactive rather than reactive!!.. we seem stuck in this rut of wait till it's broken then fix it with so many facets of our actions, maybe because there's more profit in it (rather than smart management of limited resources) and we are a fundamentally profit driven country? how many problems could we reduce such as police brutality, medical profiteering etc if we had a different incentive? seems like there is some universal kernal of wisdom brewing in your perspective that could be drawn out and explored

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

56. I think in part as you point out, it's 'profit'.

Especially when you get up to larger scales such as businesses. You can run things into the ground, then externalize the costs of fixing things off onto the government, forcing them to keep you afloat or fix the messes you leave behind long after you've sucked all the profit out of things.

[BREMPRO]

60. right, too big to fail syndrome

Larger corporations and banks CAN and DO take unreasonable risks and maximize short term profits over long term sustainability, because they know when things inevitably fail, the government will be forced to step in to bail them out to save "jobs" and prevent the "economy" from collapsing... great system!

[Ghost in the Machine]

5. I bet the Blue Line is going to *finally* have a break in it!

I also hope the PIG that did this gets prosecuted to the full extent of the law, goes to jail and then loses everything he has in a civil suit!


Ghost

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. White kid, dad's a cop. This one will be investigated.

Last edited Tue Sep 16, 2014, 05:22 PM - Edit history (1)

As it should be. But I wish they'd do a better job of investigating cops for beating up, tasing and shooting black kids. I guess the lesson to learned here is that even though minorities, especially black teenagers, are much more likely to get abused by cops than white people, even a white kid who doesn't instantly knuckle under is at risk, as are old ladies and pregnant women who dare to participate in demonstrations. Respect My Authoritay.

[DocMac]

23. + 10000

[Sparhawk60]

40. Amen

Amen to that. I am glad they are investigating this, but the day they investigate this happening to a Black kid with no special father is the day I start to have hope.

Sparhawk

[Raster]

76. Unfortunately, I have to agree.

[rhett o rick]

8. How many before the DoJ figures out there is a problem? nm

[lpbk2713]

9. Right now the response would be ...

"Problem? There's a problem?"

[dickthegrouch]

14. What's the betting they solve the problem

With some kind of 'courtesy' sticker on their families' cars, rather than figuring out that their own families are just as much at risk of an out-of-control pig as anyone else's, especially if they're out of jurisdiction?

[edgineered]

28. They don't use stickers like that.

They use a small colored reflector. Be sure to pick the right color. Place it is where they first look. There is nothing more I can say - you're on your own to learn more.

[uponit7771]

15. I hold no breath for Holder... (no pun intended)

[villager]

26. You mean you're "hoping" for actual "change?"

That might take awhile....

[rhett o rick]

35. I don't see real change on the horizon, but I will still rail for it. nm

[pansypoo53219]

11. when are they gonna figure out BAD cops make them ALL LOOK BAD. same for doctors

and all the associations protecting shit.

[fbc]

25. But they are all bad

The supposedly good ones cover up for the bad ones - that makes them criminals too.

[The Green Manalishi]

53. I think this pretty much applies to any group.

Don't complain about being 'tarred with the same brush' if your loyalty to the group is greater than your sense of obligation to a law abiding society. A person is no more moral than the behavior they tolerate.

[librechik]

66. +100

my dad was a "good" cop. Later I found out he was a bully and had special gloves with sand in the fingers to boost his punch. Even later he was given a desk job (anti social!) and entered the coverup phase. That's when he took me to court with him, and pointed out how the cops are instructed to lie and the judges to believe them. Best thing he ever taught me, next to dressing a deer.

Welcome to DU!

[Cali_Democrat]

13. I hate saying this, but I'm happy the kid is white

Hopefully it will draw more attention and the American people will finally open their eyes to police brutality. The summary execution of unarmed blacks appears to not be making much of an impact, especially on white people. Hopefully this will.

Just look at the polls...most whites think Michael Brown deserved to be summarily executed with 10 shots.

Also, many Americans will dig through the past of black victims and try to find things like drug use in order to justify their death/injury.

I don't think that will happen in this case. Also, I hope the witnesses are white. It's a sad fact that America does not view black wintesses as credible. See Rachel Jenteal or the black witnesses to Michael Brown's execution.

This is a sad reality in America. It used to be that blacks weren't even allowed to testify against whites. Now people try to swiftly discredit them.

[justiceischeap]

19. "Now people try to swiftly discredit them"

which is an awful lot like not being allowed to testify because the noise machine works overtime to smear their character so by the time they take the stand, they're seen as liars at best.

And, yes, the witnesses were white...one the kids friend and the other a woman.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

29. verily, you speak the truth.

And a damn sad truth it is.

[Blue_Tires]

59. On the flipside, that sadly reinforces the national subconscious notion that

black lives have less "value" in the eyes of cops and courts...

[cantbeserious]

17. American Law Enforcement - Is Out Of Control

eom

[DocMac]

22. This is why I hate to read

that there are good cops. I mean, more cops should deliver milk.

[ncjustice80]

46. Pro tip- there arent.

[Liberal_in_LA]

30. i had the same thought.. he tazed the wrong kid

[mackerel]

31. The young man is 17 which makes him a senior in high school.

Your senior year is for SATs, ACTs, college campus tours, personal statements, college apps, senior pics, trying to get in as many clubs for the yearbook pic, voting for homecoming queen & king, picking a college, the prom, graduation, the all-night party after graduation.

My boy is 17.

17 shattered on account of a faulty car window that pissed a cop off.

My prayers are with that young man and his family...prognosis is poor.

[CaptainTruth]

32. How can we defend ourselves against the police?

I hate to think that I need to be armed to protect myself from psycho cops, but that's how I'm feeling. The police have become an occupying terrorist organization. This must be addressed, or eventually people WILL start responding with force ... & I really don't want to see that happen.

[indepat]

33. What do you get with a militarized police force: the likes of this when a boot-jacked, armed-to-the-

hilt brute cavalierly teaches a member of the populace a good lesson.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

34. K&R. nt

[AuntPatsy]

37. Short video

http://www.kctv5.com/story/26546886/family-of-teen-police-used-stun-gun-on-say-his-condition-is-improving


According to reports, boy was stopped at 3:07 , called ambulance at 3:10 , ambulance arrived at 3:15 ,

From the video, it looks like the officer had dragged the boy around the car , seems the boy was out already when it appears officer putting on handcuff ends but not clear from video, very short,

[rpannier]

38. Shoot Out between the KCPD and IPD

I'd watch the video

[old man 76]

39. They have forgot

We the public may be to blame for some of what has happened. Police have been put on a pedestal as hero's who can do no wrong and the greatest people who ever lived. They seem to feel that they are entitled to do as they wish. They almost have a God complex. The fact is they have a job they have chosen and any risks that go with it. No more or less than many other occupations. It is sad that so many police officers have forgot they are here to serve the people who pay them.

[Garion_55]

41. video of the arrest

[dotymed]

44. I thought that all LEO's

had to be CPR certified. If not they should be. They should be legally required to perform CPR when needed. If they fear contracting a disease, There are "masks(?)" designed to protect caregivers from being exposed to bodily fluids while performing CPR.
If this cop had been 1/2 as eager to save this young mans life as he was to end it (tazers kill), then this kid would probably be in much better shape.
What a disgrace.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

68. A lot of cops around here carry defibrillators in their units.

Defibrillators should be mandatory if the police carry tasers. Oh wait, then the cops would have to admit tasers kill and shouldn't be used for minor disrespecting of athoratah.

[Depaysement]

42. The best argument for gun rights . . .

. . . springs from police actions like this one and the killing of Michael Brown.

[leftyladyfrommo]

43. I think he is coming out of the coma

that was induced and has responded in some form. Everyone is kind of holding their breath because no one knows how much brain damage there may be.

This was a nice kid by all accounts. He was not a kid who started trouble. He was a good student.

This kind of thing should never happen. A police officer should be trained well enough to successfully get a kid out of a car without killing him.

Independence has had a lot of trouble with gangs moving out of the South Kansas City area over into Independence. The Kansas City police have really been down on the gangs in the eastern part of the city so they having been moving into other areas. And this was a big, old car with blacked out windows - just like the cars a lot of the gang bangers drive. Not that it's an excuse but he may have been on extra adrenaline and extra high alert before he ever approached that car. Most of the bangers carry guns and are exceedingly dangerous.

[dotymed]

45. " Most of the bangers carry guns and are exceedingly dangerous."

All of the cops carry guns and are exceedingly dangerous.

[tblue37]

62. The cop's "You wanna mess with me?" comment suggests that it was more a matter

of "Respect mah authoritah!" And "When I say, 'Jump,' you don't even stop to ask, 'How high?' You just jump immediately!"

The kid couldn't get the automatic window to roll down when ordered to, and that infuriated the cop. There was an adrenaline rush, all right, but it was caused by anger, not fear.

[valerief]

47. Missouri sucks. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

49. I called it misery.

[valerief]

50. Perfect!

[Dont call me Shirley]

52. Although I think Kansas may be worse

[leftyladyfrommo]

55. No, it doesn't.

Missouri is really a good place to live. Our big cities have the same problems big cities everywhere do. Not that Independence is all that big but it butts up directly on Kansas City on the east.

We really don't have very many really bad incidents here. We have a great black mayor and a great black chief of police. There are also a lot of concerned citizens that get involved really quickly if something like this happens.

I doubt that the Independence police officers are as well trained as the officers in KC.

Right now our state govt leaves a whole lot to be desired. I guess term limits were mandated and now we have a whole bunch of people in the state govt that have no idea what they are doing. That is a problem.

[valerief]

57. Sounds like you have too many psychotics with guns and badges.

I didn't mean, of course, all Missourians suck (except your native son Rush Limbaugh). I was speaking of the govt. Residents are victims of it.

[leftyladyfrommo]

58. My only experience has been with KC police and some of the smaller

town police around here. They are all nice. I live North of the River in KC and we have very little crime here.

One big reason is that Platte and Clay counties don't have probation. Platte County has no probation at all. The result is that the criminal types stay away. They know they will do time.

Jackson county allows probation to even some really hardened criminals. The result is that the criminal types stay south of the river where they can get busted and then just get back out on the streets. There is a part of town in the east that can get very violent. The rest of us just don't go there. It's too dangerous. And every other car is a police car.

Kansas City had about 100 homicides last year. It's down this year. All of our violent crime is way down.

[valerief]

61. Yeah, but the criminal in the OP was a cop. Same with Mike Brown. nt

[leftyladyfrommo]

63. There's more to this story.

There was drug stuff in the car and I guess the boy had been using something. When the officer opened the door the kid refused to get out and braced himself against the door.

He is doing better. Still in ICU but able to talk to his parents.

I know there are really bad cops out there. But it behooves us all to wait and get the whole story before we start screaming police brutality. Those officers have to deal with some really scary stuff and we at least owe it to them to wait and find out what really happened. I understand there are videos of what happened. And there is an FBI investigation going on.

[valerief]

65. Drugs are no reason to beat anyone when all the cop had to do was shoot the tires.

There's always another way.

[leftyladyfrommo]

67. He didn't beat him.

Actually what he did was worse. He tasered him in the chest which caused heart irregularity and I think he quit breathing. They were worried about brain damage from lack of oxygen but he seems to be responding well to his parents.

Personally, I wish whoever invented the taser would be shot. They are way overused and are very dangerous. And they are used way too often in circumstances where the officers should be trained to deal with the situation without the use of guns or tasers.

I'm not crazy about the police but I sure wouldn't want their job in this town. I'm just saying that we need to get the whole story first. Then if they were out of line, too violent or whatever, bring the hammer down.

[valerief]

69. Right. Other cops beat. Same "types" of results--injury. This is a systemic problem, not just

this particular incident. Bye!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

73. "Braced himself against the door"

If that isn't made up cop bullshit I'm the King of Prussia.

It sounds like "incident report speak" like "balled his fists in a threatening manner."

Where are you getting this? I haven't seen anything about drugs or bracing against the door. Can you post a link?

[Dont call me Shirley]

48. Police Depts: Stop hiring psychopaths who fantasize about playing a real-life version

of call of duty special ops or grand theft auto while on duty.

[Feral Child]

51. Damn!

One of the Protected Class treated another member of the Protected Class as if he were just, well, me. Or you. Or, more accurately like one of our black brothers.


NOTE: I didn't see any mention of race in the cited Facebook entry; but it's quite obvious that this sort a cop behavior is most often aimed at Afro American people, with the exception of AAs within the Protected Class of "Cop".

[strawberries]

64. AFro America

what is this 1970

[Feral Child]

70. Your post is too ambiguous to answer directly:

Are you objecting to me typing "Afro Americans" as opposed to your spelling of "AFro America"?

Your post seems to ask a question, but is without punctuation. Additionally, the "question" is silly enough to be rhetorical, is that why you left off punctuation? (It's 2014, jic your query was not rhetorical.)

Are you objecting to the use of the term "Afro American" as opposed to some other, more PC, term? Am I supposed to say "Black Americans" or something else that's more acceptable to the period (or you)? If this is the thrust of your post, you should qualify your authority to judge. Are you a member of the specific community that I improperly noted?

Or, are you objecting to my statement that cops tend to target blacks?

You need to be clearer when you post. An explanation of your stance is preferable to a sarcastic statement that's impossible to interpret.

My posting record is pretty clear: I am vehemently anti-racist. Yes, I'm considered to be a White Guy, though my father was Native American (or Indigenous Person/American Indian/AmerInd, or whatever term you consider politically correct for the original inhabitants of this continent). No, I'm not well-versed in the political writings of that segment of the population to which I referred in the post you've challenged. No, I make no pretense as to being an expert in current events or the preferred terminology for racial identity.

I'm just a guy with the opinion that racism is absurd and that we are all of equal worth in this society.

If, indeed, I have offended a member of the race I described as Afro American, I certainly apologize. If you're just being snarky, especially if you are not, yourself, black I can only ask you not to waste any more of my time. I don't engage in Internet bickering.

[strawberries]

72. let me rephrase

Afro American, what is this 1970!

[Feral Child]

75. Not clear yet?

Please just spell out your specific objection and I'll attempt to address it.

[strawberries]

77. nothing for you to address

There was a time when AA were called black people. Then in the 70s the PC way was Afro Americans. Period end of story

I know you are looking for an argument, but you came to the wrong place

[Feral Child]

78. Oh, no.

You looked for an argument, with your inept attempt at a snarky one-liner. I didn't seek you out. In fact, I wasn't aware of your existence and will gladly forget about it as soon as this unpleasant conversation is completed.

Are you, in fact, "AA"? If not, what authority do you have to "correct" my post? And, you have yet to explain why my post, even if not " l'expression du courant ", was unacceptable to you.

Or even worthy of note.

[Pisces]

71. Every cop should be in anger management classes every 6 months. Their job puts them in aggravating

situations, they demand respect and when they don't get it they lose control. They approach everyone as if there is a
problem and their life is on the line. Whatever you're looking for you will find it. Cops are under pressure and stressed
add to that anger and there is a bad combination for abuse.

[strawberries]

79. agree

it should be a part of their job to attend anger management classes.
Have you ever read Choir boys? I read it in the 70s. It is about these NYC cops and how they dealt with the stresses of the job.

[hollysmom]

80. I don't know about every one - I think some places that don't have a high enough crime rate.

I read the local police blotter every week for our small town and mostly it is about visiting schools going to a traffic accident (they had out too many warnings and not enough tickets, and I can say it from being hit by too many other cars) There is one drug bust a week and lots of burglaries. Occasionally there is a big crime, but maybe once a year. We just had a local guy try (very poorly) to rob a bank, but he went to another town to do it and then tried to walk home No mask,no gun, I think he wanted to go to jail, he had just been released for a previous robbery attempt.

They had to shoot one person 30 years ago who was hiding under a bridge and shooting at people - he just flew in from Colorado, and wandered into our town, didn't know anyone there. I think they have investigated a few family murders over the years and one home invasion that involved a new york gang coming after someone who just moved here.

I doubt it is very stressful or dangerous to be a cop here which is probably why they are so patient. When my dog used to run away a lot (I called her Houdini) I used to know all their names as they returned my dog, but now the dog and I are both older and live a quiet life never seeing the police except patrolling at street fairs.

two towns away is another story, Newark. Even local cops are afraid of Newark cops.