OK, they suck. But...

[MannyGoldstein]

Two days ago I asked the question:

Does today's Democratic Party speak for you?

As of today, there have been over 300 votes (amazing!), and the answer is basically a huge "no". Fully 84% of respondents feel that our party as a whole is either disappointing or a disaster.

Ouch.

Next question: Do you agree with the following statement?

"Today's Democratic Party is awful, but it's critical that they beat Republicans in November or else things will get a damned sight worse."

Can I ask a favor? Please keep this kicked so we get a good number of responses, thanks.

40 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	Largely agree.
	38 (95%)
	Basically disagree.
	1 (3%)
	Other (please elaborate below).
	1 (3%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[TreasonousBastard]

1. So, go DO something about it...

It's just so damn easy to complain on a keyboard.

[daleanime]

2. Actually, complaining on a keyboard is doing something....

but what makes you think it's the only thing being done?

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Not much else going on around here...

calls to action generally sink like a stone, but outrage leads to 200+ post threads.

[Andy823]

9. I have noticed that also

Last edited Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Seems like the anti Obama, anti democratic party crowd is growing in number and "always" show up to rec the outrage threads. Of course a lot of them might be trolls.

[JTFrog]

13. Yea, on the old DU ratfucking was strongly discouraged after Labor Day in an election year.

The new DU definitely has a bigger tent, so to speak.

[zeemike]

16. Well that should tell you something.

When what you are doing is not working you see opposition growing.
The wise person would examine themselves and ask how they can change that, instead of just blaming it on trolls or malcontents.

[Andy823]

25. Well

When I see the same people posting the same crap day after day with the same people recing it up, that tells me something to. Either we are gaining more trolls, or the number of gullible people is simple growing. I tend to believe it's the troll thing myself.

[zeemike]

38. Well believe what you want.

But when the party disappoints people, most of them blame the party not themselves.
And pretending it is OK is fine if you just can't bear to look.

I happen to think the unexamined life is not worth living...and the same goes for any political party.

[Cali_Democrat]

32. Ya but the OP's other poll got 300 votes! Amazing!

Surely the higher ups in the Dem party will notice these awesomely awesome unscientific polls on an anonymous message board...

Activism baby!

[MannyGoldstein]

41. .

[Union Scribe]

37. Apparently easy enough

for you to do it as well.

[TreasonousBastard]

43. And i do.

[leftstreet]

4. The GOP always seems to control the House and Senate

Even when they're a minority

[KamaAina]

5. 99.9 percent agree.

[Martin Eden]

6. Other

I'm terribly conflicted.

My first inclination was to vote Largely Agree because the Republican Party is a toxic stew of batguano crazy and corporate lapdog. If they were to control both houses and the presidency they could do a terrible amount of harm to millions of people at home and abroad.

But the Democratic Party (aside from a few gems like Elizabeth Warren) is drifting farther away from the people they ostensibly represent, and a real kick in the pants is needed or the change we hope for and desperately need will never materialize.

Part of me wants to see a massive turnout for the Green Party or for any candidate who is not a tool of the oligarchy. If the Left (Green + Democrat) received a clear majority but the split ushered in Republican control of government with the inevitable disastrous results, would that provide the needed kick in the pants?

I don't think the politicians on their own would necessarily conclude they need to veer sharply to the left in the wake of that scenario. What's needed is for a large chunk of the voting public to finally get so fed up that real change is demanded and achieved.

But it's a huge gamble, and ultimately any scenario which puts the GOP in control is just too dangerous. Too many people would get hurt.

Frustration and a feeling of powerlessness are in these words I type.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. Pass.

The only "critical" in my life is to raise my son. When we're talking more of the same, well, there you go.

[KG]

8. dem party is sadness pile in a failure bowl

[Enthusiast]

10. Kicked and recommended. That's the idea, Manny.

Just imagine how much worse it would be with Republicans. And Bush was as advertised—feckin' horrible.

[Homer Wells]

11. KICK. nt

[99Forever]

12. And a kick K&R

[Scuba]

14. Critical. The parties aren't as different as I'd like, but they are different enough to vote Dem.

[barbtries]

15. i strongly agree.

there is a difference. not enough of a difference for me, but a huge difference imo.
my theory is the republicans get whupped so bad they disband. then the democrats can be the party on the right and we can build a viable and real progressive, liberal movement. well maybe more of a dream than a theory.

[marble falls]

18. As a Republican, I strongly agree. I think we need an Elizabeth Warren or a Bernie Sanders ....

more than ever. There hasn't been a GOP candidate for national office I could vote for since I voted for Bill Clinton's re-election. I'd certainly vote for the big dog again if he'd be able to run again.

BTW: I strongly agree with you, too.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

17. Other -

they have to hold all 3 to make it completely suck. Even if they hold both House and Senate, a strong President can simply veto away, which keeps us basically with the exact same gridlock we already have.

[vi5]

33. Exactly

And to my mind there's an underlying lack of confidence in President Obama's willingness to veto any horrible legislation that comes out of a Repub controlled house and Senate to all of this "OMG if they take the senate we're finished!!!" Hysteria. Or a lack of confidence in many senate dems to not vote with the republicans.

[proReality]

19. K&R n/t

[whereisjustice]

20. Things are not getting better with the Democratic Party. They may, for some, slow down the rate

at which things are getting worse compared to Republicans. However, it is a fact, that every year we are farther from an inflection point regardless of who is in control. This is a fact supported by nearly every single economic indicator relevant to middle class and below and every environmental indicator (fracking, deep water drilling, clean air, global warming, etc) shows condescending nibbles at the edges of the oily elephant in the room.

It isn't necessarily the Democratic Party who is at fault. You are handing them free money with no expectations in return. What should they do? Give your vote back?

After all, what motivation is there for change if you are going to vote for them no matter how bad they suck? Knowing you'll vote for a Republican with a D after his/her name, is just asking for trouble. But that's what we do, you know, in the interests of political convenience and compliance.

So as long as we continue this line of logic:

1. Vote for the heir apparent no matter how horribly they represent the middle class and below.

2. Continue to pass laws making it almost impossible for any 3rd party competition to gain traction.

3. Continue to pump more hidden corporate money into the electoral process.

4. Defer disappointment by lowering our expectations every year. NSA spying, police state? Sure! Why not!

5. Refuse to criticize leadership or hold them accountable in any way.

We get what we deserve - Ferguson, wars, surges, global warming, Wall Street immunity, torture, poverty, police state, racism, millions of jobs to Asia, millions of H1Bs from Asia, middle class blight, crappy health care, debt ridden students, and so on.

Now, if the Democratic Party can't put these issues front and center with the same gusto and conviction with which a leader like Hillary Clinton vigorously defends slaughtering thousands of Palestinians guilty of, well, being born in an apartheid-like state, just what is the worth of the Democratic Party? For the oligarchy, they are priceless for keeping our burgeoning class war from erupting into a real one. And that's all that matters in our so-called Democracy right now.

[2banon]

24. ^^^^THIS^^^^^ n/t

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. ...

[justabob]

47. everything you said

Especially this:

After all, what motivation is there for change if you are going to vote for them no matter how bad they suck?

At some point the "lesser of two evils" argument loses its urgency. For wide swaths of people, it matters little which evil is in office as long as nothing changes for the better.

[Dustlawyer]

21. Voted Other. I did that because the Plutocrats control both parties. You don't get to be either

parties nominee unless you have the Wall Street/corporate seal of approval. Democrats throw us more bones than Republicans, but they still perpetuate the system. It would be much worse under Republican rule if they had both houses and the Presidency, but not a lot of difference if they didn't.

I am fed up now and wish the country would catch up with me. Part of me wants the sh*t heads to win it all so as to get people fired up enough to force the much needed changes! the sooner the better. Climate Change cannot wait and it will not be properly addressed until we have Publicly Funded Elections (PFE's), outlaw campaign contributions, and bust up the media and bank oligopolies. That's a tall order, and one which will take a long time, if ever to come about.

As to the commenter above who said that people here at DU are big on kicking posts, but not so much on calls to action, I couldn't agree more! As most of you know I have been pushing PFE's for some time now and even set a date for protesting during the midterms to show what these candidates have raised and then asking them, "What do you have to do for all of that money?" I got crickets chirping. Most people do not believe our government is controlled by the rich. I have trouble understanding why because when you make bribery legal, what do you expect happens next?

[Phlem]

22. Basically a damned if you do damned of you don't situation.

The Practical side says stick with the Dem's but elect more serious Progressives, separate ourselves from the third way, and put the "Left" in our party once again.

Conservative, Third Way, Moderate, Corporate Democrats have pulled the party "WAY" to the right and all we have to choose from now are the "Crazies" and "slightly less Crazy". Not a real choice.

[MineralMan]

23. Kick for the

94%!

[sadoldgirl]

26. Unless there is a real change back to the kind

of FDR or LBJ attitude in the party, I am not even sure that votes of democrats help. I wait for the outcome of 2014. If both houses go to the republicans or the division stays the same, then it may be inevitable that the POTUS election will go the same way. Perhaps that is what is needed for the old democratic party and the country to wake up. It might be terrible, but I don't see it as " the world comes to an end" event.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. I think the best we can hope for in 2014 is

'the division stays the same' - ie, we keep the Senate, but I don't see any way we win the House unless 'throw the bums out' really has gotten to the point that masses of incumbents get booted simply for being incumbents.

[whereisjustice]

36. We are at the point where Democratic Party promises to kick the can farther down the road

leaving it for our kids to deal with. And for some, that is all they need to hear.

Every half measure, every "compromise", the appeasement, the deference to the rich and the powerful, the bailouts and refusal to prosecute, is just making things worse for the majority.

The irony is the Democratic Party considers itself "the center". A Senate and House 50%D and 50%R would qualify as "center". We are very close to that now. Just how much good does anyone really expect to come of that?

So instead of pushing left, the Democratic Party is working to keep things nice and "balanced".

Fuck that.

[BillZBubb]

27. Vote Democratic!

I know the Democrats aren't what they should be, but the republicans are bat shit crazy.

Given big enough majorities, the republicans could set this country back 100 years.

A half a loaf is better than an empty belly. Even a quarter of a loaf which is probably closer to the situation.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

31. Starve later, rather than starve sooner?

There comes a point at which even a quarter loaf still ends up leaving you dead.

And we may be getting there, environmentally. Hell, it might already be too late. We might be in for famines, plagues, fires, floods, fiercer storms no matter what by now. Greed is killing us, may have already sealed the fate of most of humanity. And that greed has been propped up by politicians who put (D)s after their names as well as ones who put (R)s there.

[AverageJoe90]

30. I don't agree that the Democratic Party is awful, TBH.

But I do think it's very critical that we keep the Senate, and, if possible, even up the odds in, or even take back the House, in November.

[MisterP]

34. "work from the inside" again?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Other...again.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[JoePhilly]

39. Our party staggers like drunken

toddlers.

Can't prioritize or think strategically.

Any progress is blasted for being too little, no progress is demanded unless total success will be achieved.

Our representatives aren't sure which battles to fight because they can't fight all of them, in the same fashion, in every state.

Meanwhile the GOP has gone nuts.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Et tu Brute? nt

[Go Vols]

42. It looks that way

[BlindTiresias]

44. Well

"The other side is worse!" Yeah, probably, but you are both on the same trajectory. I just don't see Democrats as a meaningful resistance and the more abuse I receive from Third Way types about the horrors the Republicans have in store the more crystalized I am to leave the system entirely and convince as many people as I can to do the same.

[bahrbearian]

45. K&R for Andy823

[Hissyspit]

46. Nothing new here.

[Progressive dog]

48. That is a really impressive

vote count. A few hundred more and you could elect a mayor in a small village.