Message auto-removed

[Name removed]

[yeoman6987]

1. That is what primaries are for

Give your vote and see where the chips fall. However, no use worrying about it until she announces one way or the other. A lot of stress for something that may not happen.

[merrily]

52. NO! Speak up now and don't stop.

If she thinks she has a lock on a primary, she will enter it. If not, she won't. Once she announces, the money and the machine will steamroll us and everyone else.This is the time to speak.

[baldguy]

56. Yeah, and once the primaries are over everyone should get in line & vote for the Dem candidate

And work like hell to get everyone they know to vote for the Dem candidate, too. Otherwise, if we don't WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER GODDAMNED REPUBLICAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AGAIN!!!

Why can't the people whining for ponies & ice cream understand this?

[Scootaloo]

2. Why stop a false start?

Clinton is only popular among Democratic celebrity-chasers and Republicans who want to run against her. We will see more candidates enter the field towards the middle of next year. All this huffing and puffing about Clinton before the 2014 elections is inconsequential blather.

[Scootaloo]

6. I have no idea. Point is, we'll see who pops up, and there's lots of time between now and then

[merrily]

53. Disagree. Besides, flip your frame: What disaster will occur if we act/speak now?

Election season is way too late.

She's been campaigning for 8 freakin years, if not longer. She has the Party, with all its endorsers, pundits, strategists, fundraising ability, organization and influence, plus Bill's donors and fans and her own behind her. And the establishment media, ready to do to a challenger what they did to Dean, talking since 2012 about her clearing the primary field if only she deigns to run.

[Laelth]

63. She does not control the Obama fundraising machine.

And Obama's fundraising machine is the strongest in the Party. I argue that Obama will choose our 2016 nominee by deciding to whom he will devise his fundraising apparatus.

Who will choose our 2016 nominee?

-Laelth

[merrily]

66. Respectfully, how do you know what she does and does not control now?

She did not control it in 2008. If she is in the primary against Sanders and/or Warren have no doubt Obama is going to give her whatever help he can.

BTW, have you considered the possibility that Obama has picked her as the 2016 nominee, either recently or during that secret meeting they had at the end of the 2008 primary?

We know he agreed to help her pay off her campaign debt because he said so and because his donors, like me, got an email asking us to help her. Why? More recently I also got emails asking me to let Hillary know I wanted her to run, so someone gave her my info.

Do we know what else he did or did not agree to? Secretary of State? Support for 2016?

She stayed in that primary after she had no chance of winning, as the PUMAS (party unity my ass) were threatening to vote McCain Palin to get something, And she and Bill could not have been more helpful to him after that meeting, even though they had to have been pretty pissed.

Doesn't matter if I my theory about 2008 is correct or not. Point is, he may have already picked her and, if not, will pick her over Warren and Sanders in a heartbeat.

[Laelth]

68. My "understanding" of this fundraising dynamic comes from Noam Schieber.

His essay on this subject can be found HERE.

Personally, I am not well-enough connected to know what's "really" going on behind the scenes. I do pay attention, however.



-Laelth

[merrily]

70. Schieber has no idea what may have gone on between Hill and Obama, though.

And paying attention is not going to get you or me or him that info, either.

Speaking of paying attention, do you recall any Pres. candidate of either party who campaign was in a lot of debt, yet kept running well after winning the primary was a mathematical impossibility?

But, this is a speculative tangent anyway. The issue was not whether Hillary controls Obama's fundraising machine now or will later. Or even whether Obama is far likelier to support her over Sanders and/or Warren.

The issue was whether those who would like to stop Hillary should speak now or chill now and wait to voice their objections to her until election season starts.

[Laelth]

73. I suppose I am suggesting that ...

... the audience should be considered as we discuss the merits of objecting to Clinton now. Speaking up now can do some good, I think, if we direct our speech to the right person. That person is Barack Obama whom, I argue, will choose our 2016 nominee when he devises his fundraising machine to the politician of his choice.

-Laelth

[merrily]

79. Ah, thank you. I totally missed that.

I say we speak to as many people as we can wherever we can. I don't know who will give a rat's ass what we unfat cats say and who won't. So, keep talking and posting and doing whatever else you can IRL. That's my take.

[Laelth]

81. Completely reasonable.

If we make enough noise, it might filter its way up to the President.

-Laelth

[merrily]

82. My guess is he knows and so does the DNC and everyone in the Dem Party.

We can't be the only ones or even the most tuned in ones.

For just one example.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025541280

Besides, Obama's whole primary strategy was to run to Hillary's left. I don't think Axelrod licked that from the grass.

[Laelth]

84. Awesome thread to which you linked above, btw.

I had missed that one. I gave you a belated rec. The Democratic Party and the American people are both far more liberal than our talking heads and politicians will admit.

-Laelth

[merrily]

89. Thank you for the compliment and the rec. Never too late for

a rec or a kick.

As you perhaps saw, brooklynite was on that thread. He is a donor to the DNC. Posted once that he contacted Schweitzer to ask him to run--if Hillary did not, of course.

Moveon was founded around Bill and Monica. This board was started in 2000, with contacts to professional politicians. And professionals always have their ear to the ground anyway.

I am very sure they know that many on the right cannot abide Hillary because of the Clinton White House years and many on the left think she is too far right and too corporatist. I have no doubt they've been working on all those things since 2008. I also have no doubt they've been working very hard on re-branding her.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10025544060#post3

[randome]

74. The disaster is that you help detract from the far more important 2014 elections.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[flvegan]

5. You should visit us in the Tofu Ghetto, fellow vegan.

"Mushiness about climate change" starts at breakfast and lifestyle, right?

[flvegan]

9. So, is that a yes?

[Warpy]

42. Don't dis tofu

It took me a lot of years but now I like it for itself and no longer have to bury it in strong flavored sauces.

Dusting it with a little cornstarch before frying it is what made me turn that corner.

[sheshe2]

7. Please provide links to all that you are alluding to.

Her Republican roots? Billy? Are you talking about President Clinton here? Really? Billy?

Please provide all the links, you can't just toss stuff out without facts to back them up. Your disrespect is so noted. No, I am not a fan of Hillary, though I will vote for her if she is the candidate.

I will tell you what is disturbing here. You highlight Hillary as The First Lady, yup a woman. How about that she was SOS and a great one. You call President Clinton , Billy to diminish him.

And...

[pnwmom]

10. It's true she liked Ike. But he would be a strong progressive in today's political world.

And he might be most famous for his prophetic warnings on the dangers of the military-industrial complex.

[Laelth]

65. I have my gripes about Hillary.

But she worked for the McGovern campaign in 1972. It's hard for me to imagine that she isn't a liberal at heart (because she had an obvious change of heart in the late 60s). It's possible that she's a liberal only on social issues. Women's issues have played a central role in her political career, but I note that her 1994 plan to reform health care in the United States was significantly more liberal than the ACA.



-Laelth

[sheshe2]

13. links please

[sheshe2]

15. It is your OP and you produced nada.

It always nice to see a link or two when one makes so many accusations.

However~ you refuse. Got it!

[still_one]

23. Hey, here is her positions on the issues. Read the link

http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[sheshe2]

31. So your link is where?

You made another statement without a link! How hard is it to link to a source?

Ummm you can't post stuff from a link without linking to it. Try again.

Oh and...

Greggs is right~ And your reply

Greggs is right you do have the right to ask for sources

So, reread your post and seems you most want sourced my statement about her family.
To wit, from Wikipedia,"Hillary Rodham Clinton" (is this good enough for ya?)

I don't need to reread my post. However you need to post links on DU. You quoted Wiki without a link. That is a nono here. Take a deep breath and continue.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

58. Why?

You quoted Wiki without a link. That is a nono here.

He said it was from Wikipedia. Are your computer skills so limited that you're incapable of finding the article on wikipedia without him actually providing you the exact link?

[NanceGreggs]

17. You're new here ...

... so perhaps you are unaware of how these things work.

If you are the one professing certain things to be facts, the onus is on you to back up your allegations.

So do your own Google search, and stop expecting others to do your homework for you.

[sheshe2]

27. Damn it is so good to see you again, Nance.

Women are Powerful

If you are the one professing certain things to be facts, the onus is on you to back up your allegations.

So do your own Google search, and stop expecting others to do your homework for you.

Brava!

[NanceGreggs]

32. Thanks, sheshe.

Yes, women are powerful. And men are powerful. And adults are powerful. And children are powerful.

We all have the potential to be powerful. And when we take the time to remind each other of that potential, we empower not only ourselves, but all of the people who populate the world in which we live.

Thank you for reminding me to recognize the power that resides in all of us, and of the powerlessness of those who speak without being able to support their own words.

[sheshe2]

37. Nance

This place makes me cry sometimes.

However, we do have the power and hell no we will not sit down and we will not shut up, not now, Not ever.

I was heartened to see a good turn out here for our primaries a week ago. Women! We have Martha Coakley that hopefully will win as Governor here, first ever in Mass. Maura Healey is slated to be the first gay AG in Massachusetts and yes the first in this countries history.

I stand for the every man, woman and child our LGBT community, our AA brothers and sisters. Me, I think we can do this together.

Please stop by more often. I know it stinks here more often than not, yet there are good peeps here, but you already know that.

[TBF]

61. Actually that poster is NOT new -

"Member since: Fri Nov 22, 2013, 03:52 PM"

dunno what MIRT is doing this morning - maybe too busy in the hot tub ...

[sheshe2]

34. Yes, it most certainly is diminishing.

This is a Democratic board and some here have fun trashing Democratic Presidents, yup it happens. However for the most part it is unexceptable.

Read TOS!

By registering a Democratic Underground account, you agree to abide by these terms. A single violation of any of these terms could result in your posting privileges being revoked without warning.

The Democratic Underground Administrators have a great deal of confidence in our system of citizen jurors and software tools, but we are well aware that trolls are constantly on the lookout for new ways to cause trouble and therefore on rare occasions it may necessary for us to revoke a member's posting privileges for reasons that are not covered by these Terms of Service. Because of this necessity, we retain the right to revoke any member's posting privileges at any time for any reason.

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

No bigoted hate speech.
Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic. To be clear: This includes any post which states opposition to full equal rights for gays and lesbians; it also includes any post asserting disloyalty by Jewish Americans, claiming nefarious influence by Jews/Zionists/Israel, advocating the destruction of the state of Israel, or arguing that Holocaust deniers are just misunderstood. In determining what constitutes bigotry, please be aware that we cannot know what is in anyone's heart, and we will give members the benefit of the doubt, when — and only when — such doubt exists.

Don't go overboard with the crazy talk.
Democratic Underground is not intended to be a platform for kooks and crackpots peddling paranoid fantasies with little or no basis in fact. To accommodate our more imaginative members we tolerate some limited discussion of so-called "conspiracy theories" under the following circumstances: First, those discussions are not permitted in our heavily-trafficked Main forums; and second, those discussions cannot stray too far into Crazyland (eg: chemtrails, black helicopters, 9/11 death rays or holograms, the "New World Order," the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, the Freemasons, alien abduction, Bigfoot, and the like). In addition, please be aware that many conspiracy theories have roots in racism and anti-semitism, and Democratic Underground has zero tolerance for bigoted hate speech. In short, you take your chances.

Don't willfully and habitually infringe on others' copyrights.
To simplify compliance and enforcement of copyrights here on Democratic Underground, we ask that excerpts from other sources posted on Democratic Underground be limited to a maximum of four paragraphs, and we ask that the source of the content be clearly identified. Those who make a good-faith effort to respect the rights of copyright holders are unlikely to have any problems. But individuals who willfully and habitually infringe on others' copyrights risk being in violation of our Terms of Service.

Don't threaten anyone (including yourself).
Do not post anything which could be construed as a threat toward any person, on DU or elsewhere. Do not post messages threatening to harm yourself. (If you are having a personal crisis, call a crisis hotline for help. DU members are not qualified to give you the help you need.)

Respect people's privacy.
Do not post or link to any private/personal information about any person, even if it is publicly available elsewhere on the Internet.

Don't post "shock content" or porn.
Do not post or link to extreme images of violence, gore, bodily functions, pain, or human suffering for no purpose other than to shock and disgust. Do not post or link to pornography.

No spammers.
Do not spam Democratic Underground with commercial advertising or promotions.

Don't do anything illegal.
Do not post messages which violate any U.S. laws (eg. linking to illegally-shared files, attempting to organize hacking or DOS attacks, libel/slander, etc.). Organizing civil disobedience with a legitimate political purpose is permitted.

Don't post malicious code or mess with the software.
Do not attempt to intentionally interfere with or exploit the operation of the Democratic Underground website or discussion forums (eg. by "post bombing" or using any other flooding techniques, by attempting to circumvent any restrictions placed on your account by the forum software, etc.) Do not post messages that contain software viruses, Trojan horses, worms, or any malware or computer code designed to disrupt, damage, or limit the functioning of any software or hardware.

Don't do anything else which is similarly disruptive.
Just because it isn't listed here, doesn't mean it's ok. If you post anything which is obviously disruptive, malicious, or repugnant to this community, its members, or its values, you risk being in violation of these Terms of Service.

One more thing: Don't push your luck.
The DU Community Standards state: "It is the responsibility of all DU members to participate in a manner that promotes a positive atmosphere and encourages good discussions among a diverse community of people holding a broad range of center-to-left viewpoints." Members who demonstrate a pattern of disruptive behavior over time and end up getting too many of their posts hidden by the jury (measured by raw number or percentage) may be found to be in violation of our Terms of Service. If you seem to be ruining this website for a large proportion of our visitors, if we think the community as a whole would be better off without you here, if you are constantly wasting the DU Administrators' time, if you seem to oppose the mission of DU, or if the DU Administrators just don't like you, we will revoke your posting privileges. Remember: DU is supposed to be fun — don't make it suck.

[sheshe2]

38. Ooops~

Sorry you were so remiss in your links. That you still have not posted here.

Here ya go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[Warpy]

46. Uh, welcome to DU?

Thank you for your link in post #35, it told me a few things I didn't know, like HRC's rhetoric was on the wrong side of an issue but occasionally when it came down to her vote, she cast it on the right side of the issue.

If she is the nominee, I'll vote for her because to do otherwise is unthinkable. Your post made me think slightly better of the prospect.

[sheshe2]

40. WoW

I posted my links yet you do not. LOL!

You find it intersesting did you? Did you read it when you joined?

Your exerpt from TOS

"Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like."

Are you suggesting I am one of these? Please post your links in your reply.

"When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them."

Which part of this do you not understand?

I accused you of nothing, stop trying to pick a fight. And guess what we are indeed in election season now on DU. Hello 2014! After labor day it is election season here and yes we elect DEMOCRATS HERE! So stop trashing them!

[sheshe2]

48. #1

I don't know you, so please do not assume that I am your friend. I only met you an hour ago. How could we possibly be friends?

#2

Yup I forgot the link to TOS and provided it as soon as you asked. Yet when you signed on to a Democratic board you never read that? I did. However in the beginning of this thread I asked for links to your OP. You told me to google them myself. The OP is the one that provides the links, you make a statement you provide the links.

#3

Yes it is election season and about 2014. Yet trashing a possible candidate for 2016 does not help 2014. It is divisive at best.

#4

You said...

If you care to answer, why did you post the TOS if you hadn't motive to shut me down?

I am trying to shut you down? I am not the one that wrote TOS the founders of DU did. It is the rules here. Follow it or don't, your choice.

[gwheezie]

12. Hopefully she will have primary challengers

I like Hillary. I'm going to vote for her but I think it would serve her well to have primary challengers. If you have a candidate you prefer work for that person and dems will decide who represents them. If your preferred candidate is not a dem then Hillary and the dem primary doesn't matter.

[still_one]

22. Sorry bud, she isn't going to drop out, and you better deal with it and just support your candidate

instead of all this animosity. Also, what the hell does it me that "voting for her is the same as trying, convicting and jailing nixon"

If you are trying to say you don't like Hillary, we get it, but using that analogy makes no sense

[still_one]

30. Glad you explained it.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Its the same as eating four hot dogs with six hands!

Okay, i just made that up.

[still_one]

19. Really? How about the republicans MUST be stopped. support the Democratic candidate of your choice

but this bullshit as though Hillary is some devil incarnate is so much hyperbole and garbage it gets really tiresome

Here is her record:

http://www.ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

You may not agree with everything, but there is a substantial amount you should agree with, or maybe you are on the wrong forum

[Frances]

20. I support Hillary

[SidDithers]

24. ...

Sid

[still_one]

26. With all this drama going on I might think this is worse than ISIS

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. It is more important, although 'worse' is up to the individual.

Who becomes the next President will have a lot more impact on American than ISIS ever will.

If we'd had a President who wasn't a coward in September of 2001, we'd be in a hell of a lot better shape as a country now, and no one would ever have heard of ISIS.

[randome]

75. The November elections will have a lot more impact than who is President in 2016.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[SidDithers]

59. Surely, Hillary will start beheading journalists on the White House lawn...nt

Sid

[still_one]

64. Actually, I am a little surprised I don't see Bengazi here (scarcasm)... I hope

[sheshe2]

45. Sid! Danger Danger!

[gwheezie]

55. Oh dear

I think snowdon should come back and face whatever charges are the Feds want to bring against him. So that makes me not a dem?

[randome]

76. Really? THAT'S the most disturbing thing?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.[/center][/font][hr]

[Enthusiast]

43. Kicked and recommended!

I'm with you, belltower.

[MaggieD]

44. So which other Dem has a viable chance?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

62. Probably just about any Democrat?

The polls now are meaningless. Any person who runs as a Dem and isn't a complete clown is guaranteed to scoop something like 49-50% of the vote no matter what thanks to demographics, simply because they slap a (D) after their name. Throw in a lot of money spent on advertising and hammering whatever clown steps out of the Republican car, and you've got a win. Clinton just has a hell of a lot more press coverage than anyone else on the left who has said they're 'thinking about it'. And the more she says she's 'thinking about it', the lower her numbers have been going. People 'liked her more' because she wasn't really 'in politics' as Secretary of State. But over the months that she's hinted she's probably getting back in, her favourables have plummeted. She's barely breaking even now, while her husband, who will never be in political office again, has the same sky high approvals she had before she seemed to be getting back into the political picture.

[mfcorey1]

47. So sad on a DU website to see so many sucked into what seems like a rethug

talking point. Flame me because the truth stands!

[bahrbearian]

49. K&R because of sheshe2 and NanceGreggs

[whistler162]

50. Hmmmm.....

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Gracias, por su preocupación. Su preocupación se observa. Y bienvenidos a DU!

Hope you dont mind, I'm practicing my rusty Spanish.

[TBF]

60. "Ol' Billy will be back in the game"

I don't know what MIRT is doing this morning, but I thought the idea of this site was to keep out the republican rhetoric we can read everywhere else.

[SidDithers]

85. +1. Time to break out the MIRT signal...

Sid

[Agschmid]

88. I see it, I see it!

Lordy!

[TBF]

91. There we go! K&R nt

[Sancho]

67. Bush was a disaster! I'll vote for the Democratic candidate no matter who it is...

I voted for Obama, even though he isn't a perfect progressive.

I'll vote for Hillary or anyone else before I'd let Rand Paul, Rick Perry, or any other crazy right-winger in the White House again.

Sorry, but it's easier to try and influence a sitting Democrat than to put up with another repub of any kind.

[JustAnotherGen]

78. Co Sign this post!

I'm going to sit over here and let the Sanders, Warren, Clinton fans duke it out amongst themselves. But IF one of their candidates wins the Nomination - most assured I will be voting for that person over Jeb Bush, Jindal, KochBrothersPickedTheCandidateRepublican.

[MohRokTah]

69. .

[pnwmom]

71. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Disaster!

She's "mushy" about climate change! (And she's female!)

While actually:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/22/hillary-clinton-climate-change_n_5015203.html

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton says young people understand the significant threat of climate change and that she hopes there will be a mass movement that demands political change.

The potential 2016 presidential candidate says at a Clinton Global Initiative University panel that young people are much more committed to doing something to address climate change. Clinton says it isn't "just some ancillary issue" but will determine the quality of life for many people.

The former secretary of state cited global warming as a major issue that students could face in the future.

[Phentex]

77. AND she wears pants! What if we find out she has a pink toothbrush?!!!

Head for the hills, I tell ya! This country is going to hell in a hand basket!

[ismnotwasm]

72. Wow you really don't like her

Every OP you make practically is abut how you don't like her

[MineralMan]

80. Stopped how? Stopped from what?

No serious candidate has announced candidacy for 2016. What is it that you want stopped?

[Agschmid]

83. Your post reeks of sexism just FYI.

her issues are all pretty 'safe' as one might expect & tolerate from a First Lady I guess.

What does that even mean? You seem to have forgotten she was a US Senstor and Secretary of State?

[tammywammy]

86. "from a First Lady"

It's not like she was ever a senator or Secretary of State.

[Agschmid]

87. Yup.

Glad we can see right through this shit.

[marym625]

90. Can't stand the woman

She's a warmongering, anti-civil rights, hack.

I will NEVER vote for someone that voted for the Patriot Act or the illegal war we waged on the people of Iraq.