I'm really tired of people using the word "discipline"

[Ilsa]

when what they are really doing is punishing or abusing a child. Furthermore, they accuse others of not disciplining their children because they don't spank or hit. They think the only way to teach a child is to spank or beat in the lesson.

I think they are confused about the meaning of the word based on its origins, to teach or to train. Discipline, if you go by the early etiology of the word, doesn't mean to punish. Disciples were followers who were in training. Over time, as the word is misused in the context of parenting, the punishment definition has evolved.

Discipline, in the context of parenting, is foremost about training and teaching, not punishing.

[zappaman]

1. True, but I do like it in this context...

[LiberalAndProud]

2. Michael and Debi Pearl would agree with you.

Training and teaching, not punishing.

They also think hitting children is both acceptable and desirable.

[Ilsa]

3. They should try teaching without violence. nt

[LiberalAndProud]

4. That, I'm afraid,

is not Biblical, in the sense that Michael and Debi interpret the Bible, I mean.

[unblock]

5. i'm dismayed by modern usage of the word "justice", similarly.

justice involves fair treatment, due process, and appropriate punishment for the guilty.

it doesn't involve mere punishment, revenge, retribution.

bringing someone to justice involves arresting them and giving them a fair trial. simply hunting them down and killing them is not justice. in some circumstances, that may be the best we can do, but don't then call it justice.

[IDemo]

9. That, plus "correction"

The current so-called "correctional institutes" offer nothing whatever in the form of practices which would tend toward true correctness of the human mind or spirit.

[gratuitous]

15. How right was Orwell?

You control words, you control the language. Why do we need words or concepts like "excellent" or "shabby" when "good" can be adapted to cover all the gradations of something's essence: Plusgood or doubleplusungood. See? No need to get into all the time-wasting of thinking up applicable words and employing tediously repetitive vocabulary. "Good" can cover it all!

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Unless it's self-discipline.

[Ilsa]

10. And that wouldn't involve parent/guardian. nt

[TreasonousBastard]

12. Well, I was kinda thinking they would have some of it, and...

teach it to their offspring.

[Louisiana1976]

7. What bugs me is when Reggie Bush said he'd "harshly discipline" his 1-year-old daughter. What

would a 1-year-old do that would require harsh discipline? He should have his daughter taken away from him and given to people who know how to raise children without violence.

[Ilsa]

11. And that was the straw that broke my proverbial back.

The beaters are getting defensive, aren't they?

[madinmaryland]

17. How can a 1 yo even be disciplined? They don't even

understand the concept of right and wrong.

[immoderate]

8. I'm really tired of people who are "really tired" of things when they're not really tired or else...

... they would go to sleep.

There are disciples who beat themselves with switches.

--imm

[RedCappedBandit]

13. Spanking is the result of a lack of discipline, frankly. nt

[derby378]

14. I'll settle for Throbbing Gristle's version, myself

[Ilsa]

16. Glad you like it.

My ears could handle only a minute of then I "shut that whole thing down."

[TorchTheWitch]

18. I'm really tired of people arbitrarily deciding that the word punishment

is something undeserved, violent and teaches nothing. Time outs are a punishment. Taking away privileges is a punishment. Any non-violent consequence to bad behavior is a punishment. The dictionary hasn't changed the meaning of the word, so neither should anyone else much less demanding that arbitrarily changed meaning be forced on anyone else.

The word punishment does not mean exactly the same thing as discipline. Discipline is the entire structure of teaching what is appropriate behavior and what isn't. Punishment is that portion of the discipline that is the consequence of bad behavior in the form of restitution/penance for that bad behavior, ie: the punishment of the bad behavior of talking back is having to do the extra chore of cleaning the dishes every day for a week or going without the iPhone or tv or some other pleasure for a length of time, etc.

Punishment in the form of some sort of restitution/penance as a consequence of bad behavior is a necessary and useful tool. Not only is the lesson learned but the child is also given the opportunity through that punishment to absolve any guilt or bad feeling of the bad behavior and a sense of having removed it's black mark evening the scales once again through giving back. Of course I never liked punishments like groundings or extra chores or other removal of privileges at the time, but afterword I always felt better in performing that restitution and feeling that my slate was clean once again and could then put the entire experience behind. Punishing a child through a form of restitution/penance is a great lesson that also allows them the opportunity of redeeming themselves. It's also a great lesson for adults that also allows them redemption through restitution/penance.

That's why AP needs some form of punishment for his bad actions - so that his victims, society and himself can be satisfied that there was a consequence for his actions appropriate to those actions through his restitution/penance.