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Zorra

(27,670 posts)
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 03:22 PM Sep 2014

Scotland independence: "a better organised and vastly more powerful version of the Occupy movement"

I believe DU liberals will enjoy this article...DU conservatives...no, not so much.

From The Guardian:

Scotland’s yes campaigners are voting to leave the Titanic

In Scottish city centres right now, you’re rarely out of sight of a yes badge. The vibe was summed up by an Edinburgh cabbie: “We’re being invited to run our country. It’s very exciting. Maybe we can show how things can be done differently”. It’s not just him. Polls have shown the yes vote surging.

It’s worth noting how remarkable this is. The only UK party supporting independence is the Greens. Of all of the local Scottish and British papers, only the Sunday Herald backs yes. The official story has long been that it’s only a few angry men in kilts who care about this.

But in the internet age, officials don’t get to write the stories any more. There were always people who had little time for flags, tartanry and shortbread, but who wanted to escape a political system that has made Britain one of Europe’s most unequal counties. And it is these people – a better organised and vastly more powerful version of the Occupy movement – that the Westminster parties and their media partners failed to consider.
snip---
These people created their own media and founded their own organisations. They are young, energetic, enthusiastic, funny. They looked the British state straight in the eye and saw through its illusions. The hierarchies of a steeply unequal country reward loyalty and elite connections while punishing independence of mind. No wonder kids from “the regions” are running rings around the “gurus” of a floundering establishment.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/scotland-yes-campaign-voting-british-state


YES!

May this become a worldwide phenomenon and movement.

Slainte!
46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Scotland independence: "a better organised and vastly more powerful version of the Occupy movement" (Original Post) Zorra Sep 2014 OP
It's not really comparable JI7 Sep 2014 #1
Quite the amount of supporting evidence you've supplied to prop up your premise... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #3
The biggest difference is obviously Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #18
Editorials and evidence are two wholly separate things. LanternWaste Sep 2014 #21
The Scots independents were led by an ambitious iconoclast pscot Sep 2014 #46
There’s not much similarity between the two movements. Chathamization Sep 2014 #37
For example, the SNP is a long-standing political party which has been working for this for decades muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #41
I forgot about shortbread KamaAina Sep 2014 #2
One correction, there are NO DU conservatives. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #4
Except for posters who often write, "in most things, I'm pretty conservative about..." LanternWaste Sep 2014 #5
I've never seen such a DUer. eom MohRokTah Sep 2014 #11
No doubt it's difficult to see that which one pretends doesn't exist LanternWaste Sep 2014 #24
Gotta link? MohRokTah Sep 2014 #27
My litmus test: If you believe that Dennis Kucinich is a member Zorra Sep 2014 #6
EVERYBODY believes Dennis Kucinich is extreme left MohRokTah Sep 2014 #9
I rest my case. nt Zorra Sep 2014 #38
You made my case for me. eom MohRokTah Sep 2014 #39
. Rex Sep 2014 #7
I know, it's silly claiming there are conservative DUers. eom MohRokTah Sep 2014 #12
And even sillier pretending there's not... LanternWaste Sep 2014 #22
MIRT catches the pretenders. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #29
DUzy! hootinholler Sep 2014 #10
I'm serious. eom MohRokTah Sep 2014 #13
Double DUzy BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #16
I worked so hard on those Jeff Rosenzweig Sep 2014 #45
Says the person who calls for indiscriminate bombing in Iraq, and damn the civilians. Marr Sep 2014 #17
I've never watched a person pull the wool over their own eyes... until today LanternWaste Sep 2014 #23
Says the guy with the Hillary Clinton badge of honor. SolutionisSolidarity Sep 2014 #20
Hillary Clinton is a liberal MohRokTah Sep 2014 #25
neo leftstreet Sep 2014 #28
Liberal MohRokTah Sep 2014 #30
exactly n/t leftstreet Sep 2014 #31
Only conservatives go around calling everyone to their left the "extreme-left". SolutionisSolidarity Sep 2014 #33
I'm a liberal. Calling me conservative is a disgusting insult. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #35
Third Way is the new Conservative n/t leftstreet Sep 2014 #26
Bullshit. eom MohRokTah Sep 2014 #32
Whaa...? Third Wayers LOVE the Bull leftstreet Sep 2014 #34
One can be capitalist and liberal. MohRokTah Sep 2014 #36
Thanks for the link, Zorra. hifiguy Sep 2014 #8
Be interesting to see how they do financially snooper2 Sep 2014 #14
Slainte Mor! hootinholler Sep 2014 #15
This is starting to sound everything leading to either Benghazi on the right or Occupy on the left. randome Sep 2014 #19
I knew the word "Occupy" would bring you here. You're late. nt Zorra Sep 2014 #40
One of my favorite subjects because I can't understand why some think Occupy is Our Savior. randome Sep 2014 #43
Understanding Occupy takes conceptual thinking ~ the ability to use the cognitive processes of Zorra Sep 2014 #44
K&R woo me with science Sep 2014 #42
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
3. Quite the amount of supporting evidence you've supplied to prop up your premise...
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 03:40 PM
Sep 2014

Quite the amount of supporting evidence you've supplied to prop up your premise...

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
18. The biggest difference is obviously
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:13 PM
Sep 2014

The Scots for Independence had identified a tangible, quantifiable GOAL from day one that they were ALL united on...Go ask OWS what they were trying to ultimately accomplish, and you'll get a hundred different answers...

I can add a couple dozen more differences if I have the time later, or you can do your own work and compare/contrast the movements yourself...

The two movements are nothing alike...

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
21. Editorials and evidence are two wholly separate things.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:20 PM
Sep 2014

Editorials and evidence are two wholly separate things.

Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
37. There’s not much similarity between the two movements.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:44 PM
Sep 2014

They both have activists unhappy with the status quo – something they share with Obama supporters, Tea Party members, 360.org, Ron Paul fans, etc.

Some Occupy people are doing good things, but the effort to take credit after the fact for things not connected with them – including the Obama’s reelection, the election of de Blasio, any anti-government protests – makes them sound more like those four guys who show up to any gathering of Leftists explaining how glad they are that the rest of us have finally decided to join the Communist revolution.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,315 posts)
41. For example, the SNP is a long-standing political party which has been working for this for decades
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 05:44 PM
Sep 2014

and they, for instance, was to lower the rate of corporation tax to attract foreign companies to set up EU HQs there rather than EU countries where they do more business: http://www.brs-snp.org/Let_Scotland_flourish.htm

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
2. I forgot about shortbread
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 03:28 PM
Sep 2014

Mom (one-half Scots descent) makes it every Christmas. I used to help her by whipping the butter until it was "light and flufy" (pronounced "floofy"; there was a typo on the recipe ).

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
4. One correction, there are NO DU conservatives.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 03:48 PM
Sep 2014

Contrary to the beliefs of those on the extreme left, there is no such thing as a conservative DUer.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
5. Except for posters who often write, "in most things, I'm pretty conservative about..."
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 03:50 PM
Sep 2014

"there are NO DU conservatives..."

Except for posters who often write, "in most things, I'm pretty conservative about..."

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
24. No doubt it's difficult to see that which one pretends doesn't exist
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:24 PM
Sep 2014

No doubt it's difficult to see that which one pretends doesn't exist. But I have faith you'll eventually give up the pretense, open the eyes, and eventually not merely see, but also observe...

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
6. My litmus test: If you believe that Dennis Kucinich is a member
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 03:55 PM
Sep 2014

of the extreme left, you are definitely a conservative.

Jeff Rosenzweig

(121 posts)
45. I worked so hard on those
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 08:43 PM
Sep 2014

fucking things for years just so "DUzy!" could be turned into knee-jerk snark and another way for posters here to sneer at fellow Democrats?

Thanks, I guess. This is very educational. Helps to explain why so many people have left.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
17. Says the person who calls for indiscriminate bombing in Iraq, and damn the civilians.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:11 PM
Sep 2014

Who do you think you're kidding?

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
23. I've never watched a person pull the wool over their own eyes... until today
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:22 PM
Sep 2014

I've never watched a person pull the wool over their own eyes... until today. Maybe that's who he thinks he's kidding.

20. Says the guy with the Hillary Clinton badge of honor.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:18 PM
Sep 2014

Yeah, you're a real revolutionary who is in no way totally comfortable with the intolerable status quo that defines the American political establishment. No one would ever confuse you for a right wing reactionary who is consistently pro-war, pro-business, and opposed to any meaningful change to the current state of affairs.

33. Only conservatives go around calling everyone to their left the "extreme-left".
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:31 PM
Sep 2014

I'm not even a communist. In fact, the most prominent communist states would have considered me a member of petite bourgeoisie and therefore a right winger. The fact that your mind is too small to consider the viewpoints of anyone who doesn't buy into your globalist agenda is why you are a conservative, and the same goes for Hillary.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
36. One can be capitalist and liberal.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:36 PM
Sep 2014

In fact, being left and anti-capitalist is extreme.

I like my capitalism well regulated, just like Elizabeth Warren. Of course, the extreme left recently threw her and Bernie Sanders under the bus due to their support of doing the right thing about ISIL.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
15. Slainte Mor!
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:10 PM
Sep 2014

The question I have is which kilt shall I wear tomorrow?

I've been wearing my kilts on Fridays these days to the point of where I get asked what happened if I don't.

Added bonus is it's Talk Like A Pirate Day tomorrow.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
19. This is starting to sound everything leading to either Benghazi on the right or Occupy on the left.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 04:14 PM
Sep 2014

Scotland has been part of the U.K. for more than 300 years with both positive and negative consequences. I wish them luck whichever way they vote.

People taking an interest in their government and their country's future does not equate to Occupy. It equates to good citizenry but I guess we have Occupy to thank for that, too.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
43. One of my favorite subjects because I can't understand why some think Occupy is Our Savior.
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 07:11 PM
Sep 2014

And I guess I never will but I'm an optimistic sort.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
44. Understanding Occupy takes conceptual thinking ~ the ability to use the cognitive processes of
Thu Sep 18, 2014, 07:43 PM
Sep 2014

abstraction and conceptualization.

The majority of DUers get Occupy instantly, it is natural for them.

Others...not so much.

Those that get Occupy intrinsically understand that you can't kill an idea. (No matter how hard you try!)


Try this: Think of Occupy as a seed of a tree that cannot be killed. The seed has sprouted, and the tree is now growing, spreading roots and branches. Recent events in Scotland are a small branch of the young, healthy Occupy tree. Someday the roots of the Occupy seed will take all the nutrients from the noxious weeds among which it has sprouted, and the bad weeds will die. The shade of the mature Occupy tree will prevent the seeds of the noxious weeds from ever growing again.

Remain optimistic.

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