Anyone who claims that the NFL has less 'domestic abuse' than the general population

[lunatica]

Is either lying or stupid. And anyone who claims it's a "Black" thing is also wrong. And anyone judging the women for not leaving and therefore implying that the women somehow have only themselves to blame is also wrong.

My son's father was and is what every single person who he's ever met believes is a true gentleman, a kind person, and wonderful catch for me and a stroke of luck for my son. People used to tell me how lucky I was even as he was beating me behind closed doors and he was telling me that if I ever left him he would kill my mother and take my son away.

It was so bad that I ended up running away and abducting my toddler son because eventually he would abuse him as soon as he could. Once I shoved his arm away as he was raising it to hit my son who hadn't yet learned how to walk on his own, because my son wouldn't go to sleep. Needless to say I got the beating instead. Once he came home drunk with a gun and waved it in my face telling me he would kill me. When he passed out I took the bullets out of the gun and hid them on the back side of my painting. I took the gun and jammed it under the kitchen sink between the sink and the vanity. He never found the gun and it's probably still where I put it. But if he had I would probably be dead. Why wouldn't I believe his threats when he screamed them at me while punching and kicking me? These examples are only two out of many, many beatings.

When the opportunity presented itself I took my son and left the country because that was the only way I knew I could protect my son from ever being abused by him. My family helped me when I finally told them what was happening. I had kept silent because I believed he would kill them. He had convinced me completely because I had first hand experience on what he was capable of.

My point is that the few domestic abusers we know about is most likely only the tip of the iceberg. How many times have we heard how shocked everyone is that these outstanding men actually beat their wives and kids. Fooling everyone is how they get away with it because they're convinced they know the men intimately. They don't know shit.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Agree, but I don't hear that claim being made.

In my experience, jocks were far more likely to also be bullies and this is consistent with becoming spousal abusers.

Further, I suspect that there's a correlation between fandom and DV, though clearly many or most fans simply enjoy the game.

I know we have a lot of sports fans here, I wouldn't dream of calling them abusive but I wonder if they think there are correlations, causal or not.

[lunatica]

3. If you watch both CNN and MSNBC lately

You hear what I hear. NFL players are coming out supposedly to voice their shock that any domestic abuse exists and what wonderful men the abusers are. Shock I tell you!

But most of the intend for posting what I did is that it's far easier than you would think that no one notices the abuse that's going on. The abused person can present a lie of having a great marriage very successfully. People who wonder why the abused stays are not tied down by considerations of all the factors that go into staying in such a relationship. The worst part is the feeling that it's only happening to you and that you must be to blame because you've provoked the beatings. You feel so much shame that you feel you can't talk to anyone. And your very life is at stake. At some point in the ongoing abuse the abused spouse realizes it will definitely end in their death if they don't get away.

Don't get me wrong. I don't blame the players or the NFL singularly. Domestic violence is much more common in every community and economic level than people are aware of. After all, it's all behind closed doors. The one's who have been caught at it were caught because in one case he was in a public place and caught on camera and in another case his son had to be taken to a doctor who did his duty of reporting it. It's not just an NFL problem or a Black problem. It's a universal problem that doesn't have anything to do with country or upbringing or religion. I even think it's rampant across the planet. Many times it is overtly championed by religion or government and is actually enforced by the government itself. In the so called developed countries it's much more secretive and hidden from view.

[NobodyHere]

2. What's the abuse rate of NFL players?

What's the abuse rate for the general male population of equivalent age?

[lunatica]

4. According to the apologists I've seen on CNN and MSNBC it's miniscule

I can't provide a link because I've only seen the interviews on TV. Why do you ask? Will a number or a percentage put out there be correct in your view? No one knows the real statistics because of the secrecy around the issue. Most abuse is never made public.

[cali]

5. what I've heard over and over is it's about the same as for the general public

I don't buy that either.

I haven't heard anyone say that its a black problem except in stupid comments to articles.

[lunatica]

6. There have been quite a few claiming the beatings of children

are a Black issue, and especially common in the South. Many of them are apologists about the whuppins they received themselves. About the domestic violence I have heard only one older football player admit that he did it once and that it horrified him and has never done it again.

As for the general knowledge of such abuses, I am simply telling my story and my opinion. I have experienced it and have helped many women try to come to terms with it happening to them. I do rely on my own experience to come to my own conclusions.

[Lonusca]

38. That would probably originate with Charles Barkley

last weekend on CBS

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24709288/barkley-hopes-team-gives-rice-a-chance-says-we-spank-kids-in-the-south

[former9thward]

40. So we should accept your numbers on the problem?

Which of course you have not given.

[LittleBlue]

7. The statisticians at FiveThirtyEight must be stupid

Anyone who claims that the NFL has less 'domestic abuse' than the general population

Is either lying or stupid.

Of course, your qualifier "general population" makes for an inaccurate comparison. That includes groups who have low rates of domestic violence, when the NFL is exclusively young men.

Read it and weep:


http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-rate-of-domestic-violence-arrests-among-nfl-players/

[lunatica]

9. Statistics are very easy to manipulate

and the fact that the NFL protects its players and sweeps their 'indiscretions' under the shield makes a difference. Everyone will admit to the fact that only reported crimes are acknowledged. The NFL is no difference than any other giant organization and business. It has the money to hide plenty of sins, and it uses it.

So while the general population don't have the power of corporations to hide behind, it doesn't mean the real statistics are not being ignored and unacknowledged. The very graph you set up as your 'evidence' is highly suspect. Anyone can throw numbers out there, no matter how unlikely they are.

Like I said, the issues here are mostly hidden in the dark underwater part of the iceberg.

[LittleBlue]

20. This one is much better than any other I've seen

It controls for both the gender and age range.

If you went farther and covered for parents' income level during childhood and race, the NFL players would look even better.

This is boiling down to "I won't accept statistics because I have to believe the NFL players are worse."

[lunatica]

21. I didn't say that

Read it again. I said they are equal, not worse than any other demographic or profession or race. And if you think the NFL so called Shield doesn't protect them better than many other groups I think you're naive. Domestic abusers in general get a level of protection that makes them comfortable enough to continue with their behavior. Ray's wife Janay was written up in the police report as a co-equal in the incident. He knocked her out with one punch and she's equally to blame? Do you think anyone believes that? Anyone?

[LittleBlue]

24. Why would they be equal?

Considering NFL players are one sex in a narrow age range, coming from disproportionately impoverished backgrounds, having a disproportionate racial makeup, and making on average $1.9m per year, can you make a good argument why I should assume that such an usual group of people should be equal to other groups?

I will defer to statistical evidence in this instance.

[lunatica]

26. Believe what you will

I never even mentioned statistics in my OP.

[mythology]

22. Did your ex have the NFL to hide behind?

You haven't yet presented any evidence to support your conclusion other than stating that it must be so.

The best available evidence suggests you're wrong.

[lunatica]

23. No. My ex didn't have to hide behind anything

I was in Mexico which isn't real big on protecting women. That's why I brought my son here. At least here women aren't quite as low as Mexican women are in the eyes of the law.

And you evidently missed my point altogether. Are you fan of the NFL?

[former9thward]

41. Yes, just like polls when you don't like the results.

"That poll is unscientific and is unreliable."

[Doctor_J]

8. those who claim that have statistics. you have a rant

Is your son's father in the nfl? Your post is strange

[lunatica]

10. My post is about how facts are very hard to come by when

you don't know all of them.

What's so strange about telling my experience and my opinion?

[cali]

13. I think it's the way you expressed yourself and that you didn't post any evidence.

I appreciate your telling your story but I think your larger point got lost.

[ScreamingMeemie]

15. ^^^This^^^

[lunatica]

18. I think you're trying too hard

[lunatica]

16. Judging by the replies I've gotten you have a point

I'm trying to defend the victims. They're real and have been dismissed by many. Not the kids, because no one needs to have a bunch of numbers to believe such crimes happen in order to acknowledge that it happens. But when it comes to the spousal abuse I feel too many are still influenced by the culture of misogyny in society. By the assumption that women make it all up.

[cali]

19. I get that. thank you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Anyone who posts a thread refuting stats without actual stats to

rest upon in that refutation should do an edit to include those stats.

Did you know 80% of people who throw out stats make them up at the last second in order to defend a position?

[lunatica]

12. Are you claiming I need to defend my position as an abused spouse?

Statistics are only as good as the cooperation of the subjects and as biased as the people manipulating them. If you don't believe me that's your right.

[ScreamingMeemie]

14. No, you need to include stats to defend your position as someone who

states the NFL has higher rates of abuse. Your position as an abused spouse does not factor.

[lunatica]

17. I did not say the NFL has higher stats

I said they most likely have an equal amount as the general public. They've been protected by being shielded by the shield.

[Dreamer Tatum]

25. Then I hereby invoke my right to not believe you.

You refuted stats. Can you back it up or not? Claiming you were beaten doesn't address your refutation.

[lunatica]

27. If you read my OP you'll find no mention of stats

[Dreamer Tatum]

28. "Anyone who claims that the NFL has less 'domestic abuse' than the general population

is either lying or stupid" is an inherently empirical claim, with testable implications.

Otherwise it falls under the rubric of "Bullshitting."

[lunatica]

29. What you believe is only your business

Go for it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. In other words, you got nothing. nt

[lunatica]

31. You're entitled to believe whatever you want

[libdem4life]

32. OMG...anyone who has been near a Jr. High or High School or College know that the jocks are

seriously protected. I can't believe this "stats" pissing contest. I was in the educational system for years. It wasn't even kept a secret. The higher up you were on the fame or money grab in athletics, the more your coach and frankly, the administration and the other kids gave a pass. Rah Rah for our team...We Win!!

It's about heroes...and heroes, be they presidents, jocks, movie stars, rich folk, mayors whatevah, get away with crap all the time. It's about Power and Money...not necessarily gender or even age.

[lunatica]

34. thank you!

I can't believe the responses I've gotten on this OP. But it doesn't surprise me. It seems they're protected here too.

[840high]

33. Prove it with statistics.

[lunatica]

35. LOL!

Prove what? That I was a victim of domestic abuse?

Since when do women have to prove they were treated violently by their husbands on this site? This isn't a courtroom, and any DUer who thinks he's got the right to be prosecutor is a sad sap.

[840high]

37. I am very sorry. I really am. You threw out

a comment about NFL with no backing.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

36. What evidence do you have to support the claim in your title?

Downthread, someone has produced some statistics which contradict your claim. I find that quite convincing.

You have merely produced some assertions, without evidence to back them up. I don't find that convincing.

I do agree that blaming victims of abuse for not leaving is foolish.

[zappaman]

39. You're wrong.

But you know that from reading the replies in this thread.
However, I don't expect you to admit it so have a nice day.

[lunatica]

42. All I know from the responses on this thread

which includes yours is that there are a lot of NFL fans who think domestic violence and child abuse are OK sometimes. Especially when it comes to their favorite football teams and players. My OP was about the facts, mostly obscured by men's preferences that violence against women and children is acceptable when the people they like are doing it.

It's been a very sad eye-opener. Especially on DU. I didn't fully expect to be attacked for supposed 'statistics' which I never even brought up. My ex-husband would be proud to see such support.

[ksoze]

43. Get a grip. You called those who asked for stats liars

or stupid. Unless you can back up your assertions, they are conjecture open to debate. No one is condoning abuse by anyone or any group, but stats would help.

[lunatica]

44. Guide me to any stats that will quantify my opinion and experience

Which interestingly enough has been completely ignored by the group of people who have commented here. I never mentioned stats, but for some reason it became the common rallying cry of the NFL fans here. What about what I really said? Did you notice what that was about?

Since when did DU become a stat requiring forum? Maybe the people who demand stats even when they're not necessary should get a grip. It's easy to defeat someone if you demand stats for every single issue.

[ksoze]

45. Maybe you need to change your thread title

Because I have no clue what the NFL has to do with your experiences and you seem to be unable to quantify your theories on abuse within certain groups. Your experiences are worth discussing, but I can only figure you posted a title and insulted people to get attention. Guess it worked, but your experiences are being clouded by mixing it with the NFL crap.

[Bigmack]

46. The general population is worse...

... at least according to this Seattle Times reporter.

I'm not a fan of pro football or any other industrialized "sport", so I don't have a dog in this fight... but...

"NFL players commit crimes at roughly eight times lower rates than average among men the same age (this is to be expected, because as a group they are very well-paid and many are college graduates). NFL players commit domestic violence and assault about half as often as men their age in the rest of society."

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024584327_westneat21xml.html