Whigs... for a couple years I have written here

[nadinbrzezinski]

that the GOP of the modern day period is looking more and more like the WHIG party.

Now here is a piece of very non popular thing to say, but true, given where the economy is at his point. It is up to the Republicans to lose this general election. They are on track to do it smashingly. See the two major factions going at each other's throats in the House? Yes, those two (there is one more, but it could be co-opted by either side)... those are the two parties that are about to find themselves in divorce court, with a very damaged brand... in their hands.

Yup... it is looking more and more like a major national party will go away, for the first time since the 1850s...

Oh don't sing hosannahs. The last time the MODERATE version emerged from that fight to form the GOP, by drawing members from the RW of the Dems and the left wing of the Whigs, but if you wanted to watch some real interesting history... well there is this curse... the chinese like a lot. We are living it. If what emerges as the winner is the radical part of the party... well then... fun times.

[Luminous Animal]

1. That would be Whig.

[LeftyMom]

2. Wig party?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_Party_(United_States)

Please don't start threads without some clue what you're talking about. It's a waste of perfectly good electrons.

[cthulu2016]

14. A spelling error is not proof of a cognitive failing

It was a particularly embarassing one, but in the context of the whole post there's no indication that the poster had no idea what she was talking about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Spell flames are a common method of attack

unfortunately.

It is easier than dealing with the subject matter.

[cthulu2016]

18. I gave you the business below, but in joke form, not just screaming that you're a moron.

The one post below that just says "Wig Party!!!" with some laughing cartoon is honest to god schoolyard bullying. Like a typical YouTube comment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Oh and welcome to DU

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Are you familiar with disabilities?

Are you familiar with Dyslexia?

Keep digging.

Here... let me give you a back hoe.



It will make the job that MUCH EASIER.

By the way you... I AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE SUBJECT, you got it... but you still attacked as a cognitive attack. That is what we call in the business a PERSONAL ATTACK.

[LeftyMom]

26. Give it up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. What that you are continuing in your attacks?

[LeftyMom]

31. 'Give it up' is not an attack, it's a helpful suggestion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Continue please

I love school yard bullies.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

56. and I love victims... n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. I will point out the bullies

sorry.

That is bully behavior, and a series attacks on ME as a person... not a discussion of the OP.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

63. you call everyone who disagrees with your assessments

or points out facts that don't support or even disprove your 'theories' bullies. i am not privy to THIS conversation, but given your pattern I feel safe in my description of your behavior on this board.

this is my main problem with YOUR tactics.

sP

[The Doctor.]

64. She took exception to someone picking on a spelling error.

When a poster assumes a 'superior' position on something unrelated to the OP for the purpose of harassment, that is very reasonably described as 'bullying'.

There is no 'tactic' in play on her part here other than reacting to an irrelevant and petty attack. Your allusion to her 'pattern elsewhere' is also markedly insubstantial and misplaced. It is obviously a weak attempt to paint her reaction to the bullying as something other than it is. Were that not the case, you could cite a specific example of her calling someone a 'bully' who was not behaving as such.

In short, you are utterly transparent.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

71. yes, she never claims victim status

and ignores everything that goes against her position. you're right...i've never seen it and neither has anyone else on this board. i can see you're a fan and that's fine but your fandom has lead you to ignore a very blatant pattern of hers. hell, she even ran off for a while a few months back when the heat got too much for her to handle...but you probably don't recall that either.

sP

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. And YOU would have been very happy about that

So how about we concentrate on the behavior in the HERE AND NOW. And was that personal attack per community standards? It wasn't about what I typed, aka the op, but a spelling mistake. Is that clear enough? And yes it is the kind of bully behavior I got subjected to in high school, just it happened to be in Spanish. You ok with that?

Let me add this, a jury of du members found one of her posts well beyond the pale, ok.

[The Doctor.]

82. Again, weak. If you don't like people 'claiming victim status', then you should discourage bullying.

Doesn't really matter. Leftymom really exposed a serious character flaw in her need to feel superior to someone who didn't do anything deliberately wrong or hurtful.

I save my bullying for the bullies, liars, and assholes that ask for it.

[pintobean]

91. Isn't that vigilanteism?

Why don't you just alert, like most people do. What qualifies you to determine who the "bullies, liars, and assholes" are? You are not judge, jury and executioner. We have a system for that.

[The Doctor.]

92. Oh my. That would be "vigilantism". Now feel the Wrath of LEFTYMOM!

You should really do the google before posting.

[pintobean]

93. Care to address my point?

I just laugh at the spelling/grammar nanny bs.

&feature=related

[The Doctor.]

94. The point that you can't spell?

Okay... you need to learn English before LEFTYMOM gets hold of your transgression.

I'm sure she's no hypocrite and will certainly point it out before long.

Unless she's a hypocrite, of course.

[pintobean]

95. The bully of bullies is hiding

behind LeftyMom to play spelling nanny? Say it aint so.

[The Doctor.]

96. Leftymom is the spelling bully here,

I'm just the harbinger of her righteous wrath.

You just wait, I'm sure that she's no hypocrite and she'll be all over you soon. You should perhaps make a solstice offering by spelling something correctly... like 'solstice'.

Good luck to you!

[pintobean]

98. LeftyMom is banned from this thread

But you knew that. You know how that works - you got banned from your civility pledge thread.

Are you ever going to explain what gives you the right to bully?

[The Doctor.]

100. I didn't realize you were telepathetic.

You would have to be to know what I was aware of before I was made aware of it.

Now that I know it though, I suppose you have avoided the righteous spelling wrath of LEFTYMOM.

So... are you willing to atone for your spelling transgression by your act of typing 'Vigilanteism'?

I'll understand if you cannot summon the will and enlightenment to admit that you are as flawed as the woeful (and already admitted) OP. We can't all be as enlightened and mature as nadinbrzezinski who unashamedly admitted to a spelling mistake.

I'll understand if you can't live up to that example.

[pintobean]

104. The only conclusion that I can come to

is that post #82 is just another case of internet bad-ass syndrome. AKA web balls.

As to my spelling and grammar, you're right, it sucks. I don't have a problem with that. I suggest you get over it - it's not going to change.

Good night.

[The Doctor.]

105. That you have acquiesced to the spelling magistry of LEFTYMOM

Is alone enough to earn my respect for your tenuous maturity.

I am glad you have seen the error of your ways.

You have a good night now.

[pintobean]

120. Cool sig line, bro.

[The Doctor.]

123. Thanks.

[lunatica]

117. Please point out who has even mentioned what the OP is about up to your comment.

Even you haven't mentioned it. Yet you attack her for responding to bullies. And to an outside observer that in itself is bullying.

[The Doctor.]

65. One word describes your behavior here:

"Petty".

[flvegan]

108. Says the poster sending horrible PMs.

One word describes your behavior here, but I won't post it lest it get deleted. It's one thing to try and make a point above board, it's altogether another to question and insult parenting abilities for a single mom who is raising a great kid.

Your mom could take notes.

[The Doctor.]

121. 'Horrible'?

Yeah, whatever. There was helpful advice in there along with the message of just what a nasty person she was being to someone who didn't deserve it.

I was bullied for looking 'gay' when I was in high school. I was really pretty and the latent assholes loved to make a target out of me. When I finally found the rage to fight back, I didn't give a damn about 'class' or 'decorum', I just made them cry and wet themselves. Then I started in on those bullying other kids and I found I had a knack for it.

So when I see someone acting like a bully to someone that meant no harm, I will berate them, I will admonish them, I will do whatever it takes to shame them into slinking away like a coward or growing up and apologizing for their behavior.

And you can bet your life I will NEVER apologize for doing so. You're on the side of a bully here. Whatever else her 'redeeming traits' are, she went after someone mercilessly for a spelling error. If you were a real friend to leftymom, you would personally tell her that what she did was wrong and the adult thing to do would be to personally apologize for it.

But I'm not thinking you possess that much class yourself. I'd like you to prove me wrong.

Leftymom has a serious issue with the need to feel superior to others. What I do may seem similar, but you will find it is only directed at people who are deliberately ignorant, dishonest, or jerks. I do so in the vain hope that they will grow up. What Leftymom does is bullying. Her history is replete with making herself sound superior to others not merely by talking about herself, but by putting others down. Like all bullies, she does it out of some very serious insecurity in her life or past.

You should talk to her about that. I'm just glad I did what it took to get her attention. I'm glad we're all on each-other's radar.

[snooper2]

130. So if I read you correctly you're like the Super Troll who attacks the Evil Trolls?

[pintobean]

131. Bingo!

[The Doctor.]

132. Until the day when the bullies are no more,

The honest people of the land fear no harassment,

And the denizens of DU can speak their minds without the nattering nabobs of nastiness,

I shall not rest.

[snooper2]

133. I think you've been watching WAY too much Umizoomi, or maybe Wonder Pets?

[The Doctor.]

134. The phone....

The phone is ringing...

[pintobean]

135. He has his moments

Around 5 am(pst), I took a screenshot of a portion of this thread.
It's not Photoshopped - that was his sig line.

??????

[pintobean]

136. Is this thread too old to kick?

The doc has some real jewels in here.

[eShirl]

19. That's the best you can do, huh?

Pathetic.

[LeftyMom]

23. The best I can do?

I didn't start a thread about something I knew nothing about and make a fool of myself.

Wig party!

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. See above...

And having given you the CORRECT TIME FRAME proves your strawman that I have no clue where this party, with it's origin in Jacksonian democracy comes from or it's role in US History.

This is a classic PERSONAL ATTACK, you keep at it, go on.

[LeftyMom]

29. I'm glad you googled now.

Next time do it before you post so you won't look so silly. Problem solved.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Why your insistence on this nastiness

what do you gain?

I have to wonder.

Hmmm... Paging Doctor Freud... truly paging doctor freud and school yard bullies.

[Zorra]

39. It appears

that there may be a pronounced lack of understanding and compassion inherent among a particular sub-group of the more conservative posters at DU.

Dyslexia must be difficult to deal with, I'm really grateful that I don't have to deal with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. It is a pain

and it is mild... so when I edit stories for publication I go through them a few more times than most... at times letter by letter.

I am not going to do that for DU's brand of yes, conservatives.

She got the post, she knew exactly what I was talking about... so what she did is school yard bullying.

[obamanut2012]

62. LeftyMom isn 't a conservative poster

I know that from reading DU for quite a while. She is, if anything, quite a bit on the other end of the spectrum. Unless her views have radically changed the last couple of months, and then I apologize and stand corrected.

[Zorra]

69. Thanks. It appears that you are correct with respect Lefty Mom. My mistake. My apologies

to Lefty Mom for this. There are no excuses for being a reactive dumbass.

Another good lesson toward never making general assumptions. Hopefully, this will be the last one.

I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.
I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions. I will not make general assumptions.

[obamanut2012]

70. All of us do that sometime

But not everyone is big enough to say they did!

[Marrah_G]

127. She definitely is not conservative

And frankly I am stunned at what she's posted here. I think there must be some previous bad blood of some sort that the rest of us don't know about.

[The Doctor.]

122. Actually, I doubt Freud would have the best answer.

There is obviously a big hole in her life somewhere. A balanced person can talk about their own abilities, achievements, and parenting skills without putting other people down.

[denbot]

61. You are really out of line.

A simple misspelling shouldn't be a reason to fly off the handle.

[The Doctor.]

66. You know, you should really look up the use of a 'colon' in writing.

"PS Didn't respond earlier because I was out having a life.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=439&topic_id=2380799#2385507

I would ask, "Who is 'PS'?", but I'm fairly safe in the assumption that you just need to 'Google' proper usage of punctuation.

[Poll_Blind]

90. Please stop- you've made whatever point it is you're trying to make by now. nt

PB

[Marrah_G]

126. What the heck is wrong with you today?

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. My dad was a holocaust survivor, why the grammar nazi appelation

seems a tad shrill.

Now bully works.

[Remember Me]

87. Be careful about your pronouncement as to who's looking like the fool

A spelling error, a typing error, a keyboard error (mine gets in my way continuously!) don't really merit this much high hilarity, at least not in my book. You could've gotten away with your ROFL as enjoying how funny the error was -- I thought it quite amusing myself -- but by this time your poking fun begins to look just mean-spirited, aka: bullying.

[Poll_Blind]

89. Indeed. And an observation not missed by many, I'll wager. nt

PB

[abelenkpe]

101. You really are making yourself look like a jerk

Y'know that?

[The Doctor.]

107. No, you made a fool of yourself in another way entirely.

So... have you 'Googled' the proper use of a colon yet?

[flvegan]

109. Impressive.

So an hour and a half after a dance of glory at the person you respond to/mention/call out/PM'd like an asshole, you still respond to negatively, knowing that no response can be posted.

Proper use of a colon? Could be the end stage of blowing shit out of one's ass. Expert on that, I bet, Doctor.

[The Doctor.]

119. She put you up to that?

Good, got the message across. Just wanted to be sure.

Like I said upthread: I save my bullying for bullies. Leftymom owes nadin an apology. It's also the only way for her to redeem a shred of class.

Thanks for letting me know the message was received. That's all I needed.

PS: People have pulled the same shit on me when I hadn't offended anyone.

PPS: This is the proper use of a colon.

[Marrah_G]

125. that was pretty mean

Do you never make spelling mistakes?

[Whisp]

128. maybe we will see a story about 'Paki's' wearing wigs....

poster didn't know that word was a no no.

o well.
some are historians, some are spellers, some can't be both. or either

[Motown_Johnny]

3. .

I assume you mean the "Whigs", and I agree. I think that if Ron Paul runs as a third party candidate it could split the GOP into two smaller parties. I do think that the Democrats would have a clear advantage for at least a couple of cycles until the conservatives regroup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whig_Party_(United_States)

^snip^

The Whig Party was a political party of the United States during the era of Jacksonian democracy. Considered integral to the Second Party System and operating from the early 1830s to the mid-1850s

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Thanks for the helpful spelling correction

[Zorra]

12. Here is the head of the Wig party

[Remember Me]

88. +1

emphasis on "head" (as in "big head&quot

[Whisp]

129. haha!!!

lolz

[SlimJimmy]

43. Ron Paul will not run as a third party. He has said so repeatedly. And as for the Republicans

self-destructing. Not likely. I heard the same thing said here time and again just prior to the 2010 election cycle. Sometimes, we can be our own worst enemies. My advice still stands - get out the vote, take nothing for granted, and don't celebrate until the President is re-elected.

[CrispyQ]

67. I worry the 'reasonable' repubs will join the Democratic party.

They have more in common with DLC dems than the batshit wing of their party. That will leave the left completely out in the cold. Our party doesn't listen to us now. If it's infiltrated with even more conservatives, to have a voice, liberals are going to have to form their own party or come to terms with the fact that no one represents them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. That's been happening for twenty years.

I fear that there are just a few die hards lef in the RNC.

[CrispyQ]

116. Where does that leave liberals?

We are told to vote for a party that no longer represents us because otherwise another party that doesn't represent us will become majority. We acquiesced to this line of thinking & our party morphed into even more of what we oppose, as evidenced by our having a majority & still not being able to implement liberal policies.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. Historic party shifts do happen

When this one is over...we might see a liberal party rise to replace one of the two.

Or gasp, as pointed bellow, the two parties might shift after the GOP fully implodes and they are taken over.

Time...will tell. Personally GOP liberal and pro worker. (return truly to it's 19th century roots) it gives me the giggles, but in these times, it is possible. I mean in the 1880s both were business parties.

[tammywammy]

4. Whig. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

5. A friend of mine is pretty high up in the Republican hierarchy, and

he agrees with you 100%. They're swallowing hand grenades, pins pulled.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I'd say shaped charges

[cthulu2016]

6. Comb-over party, yes. But the wigs are less popular today.

There was that republican senator from deleware, and Trent Lott... probably some more.

But mostly comb-overs. (Pat Buchannan's is a work of art, BTW.)

[RKP5637]

7. Wig or not? (Couldn't help it, LOL)

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1031&bih=598&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=wvbrV-ugZRamFM:&imgrefurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/10/callista-gingrich-newt-gingrichs-wife_n_875236.html&docid=a_ZknA2kwrTBeM&imgurl=&w=505&h=458&ei=P6byTtztLoWNsQL6g5i7AQ&zoom=1

[LeftyMom]

16. They injection molded the plastic all in once piece and then painted the hair, like for Ken dolls.

Does she smoke or something? Nothing else on that face is factory direct, she might as well get her teeth whitened, 'cause eeeewwwww.

[RKP5637]

35. I love it, "Nothing else on that face is factory direct."

[T S Justly]

37. Whoa! That is ... what is that? (nt)

[Broderick]

78. She is not a very attractive person to me

Seems quite "artificial" of sorts.

[RKP5637]

80. Almost like out of a wax museum. n/t

[Broderick]

83. A haunted one

[RKP5637]

84. Definitely!!!

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. I actually think I remember my Mom throwing some Wig Parties when I was a kid.

She had tons of wigs. I remember the styrofoam heads she kept them on. My Dad used to draw clown faces on them. Some of them actually scared me.

Oh wait... Wigs, or Whigs?

Never mind.

[SidDithers]

13. Wig party!!!...

Sid

[WingDinger]

17. I've been write there with ya. Only I think we should drown them in the bathtub. How Ironic is that?

Like the biblical story of Esther.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Well there is one particular ahem... member of the party

that will face the scorn of many real conservatives for the rest of his life once they wake up and realize the damage he's done. He might face the bathtub in fact, metaphorically speaking of course. (For those who need help in the who's who in the Zoo, Grover Norquist)

[Odin2005]

25. IMO a better comparison is with the Federalists.

They faded away, leaving the Democratic-Republicans in control. But then the Democratic-Republicans split into the Democrats and Whigs.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. It could except that these guys

have been around for far longer... than either the federalist or the whigs.

[Gore1FL]

30. I observe the same things, but my hypothesis is different.

If you look at the southern strategy, the immigration strategy, the morals strategy, the fear strategy, etc. you'll notice they quit working so well after a while. Each one of these things has a consequence at the end of it:

southern strategy -- Alienates African Americans
immigration strategy -- Alienates Hispanics
morals strategy -- They can't live up the ideals, and the ideals are less and less societal norms
fear strategy -- You get immune to fear. (The nuclear arsenals and the cold war numbed me.)

The funny thing about wedge issues is that once you wedge someone away, they aren't likely coming back for a long time. When those people end up making majorities, it's done.

A "Civil War" in the GOP is not the beginning of the GOP's decline. It is rather a consequence of the GOP decline. I think the recent examples of over-reaching is a consequence, too.

I suspect there will be a natural re-alignment of parties, but that is hard to predict with the current state of things exactly how that will fall out.

At least there is a slim chance that we can pull the nation out of the gleeful decline we've been in since we stopped going to the moon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Indeed, and that was a similar dynamic with the Whigs

it just took them a lot less time.

Perhaps historians will be able to look at this in the future and go into why Parties in the US fail... the politics of exclusion.

[T S Justly]

38. K&R (nt)

[madinmaryland]

40. I'm glad I missed the mis-spelling of the Whigs. There seem to be some similarities

as you suggest with the Whig's and the current Republican party, but I don't think they are very relevant.

I don't think we should be writing off the Repugs. If anything we may be lucky that they overplay the hand they were handed with the 2010 election, and give the Democrats a chance to have both branches of congress again, which is a good possibility. Even if we gain control, it is going to continue to be a very divided government.

I remember a lot of us opining both in 2006 and 2008 that the Republican party was dead. We saw what a well-funded campaign by the Kock brothers did to that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. And it is the koch party that wil probably emerge out of this divorce

but this is an echo.

As to writing them off, depends on whether they decide how damaged this brand is.

[madinmaryland]

45. Regardless of the name, it will still be the same party.

Fox will not let it change. There may be some purging, but they will still be the Republican Party.

I remember the teabagger frenzy of a couple of years ago, and they were all they same dead-enders that had been hating Democrats since the Clinton era. Most were the same idiots that were screaming about a blowjob, while their warrior was doing even worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. alas you have identified WHY the GOP may actually be on it's way out

the same dead enders are geting up in years... and while there are young republicans, even those are not as common as they used to. Granted, College Democrats, at least in my state, are having as many issues recruiting for DIFFERENT reasons... (The rise of the Independent is upon us, which is different than the 1850s)

[madinmaryland]

49. I can only hope that you are correct in your assessment.

The rise of the independent is a double edged sword. While most are disgusted by both parties (or are just plain old libertarians), they only seem to matter when there is a closely contested election.

I will ask you, though, if the Great Depression (and also the Great Bush Recession) did not kill off the Repukes, then what will? And also, why did it not kill off the Repukes?

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. They were deeply funded

and the tea party is a rebranding of one of the three groups in the party... they are the highly libertarian\small government crowd.

They got oodles of money.

Ironically it might be that which will do them in for sure. While the other seemed like a lethal would, it probably was survivable over a few electoral cycles. But the current intramural games in DC might not let them survive. They are head scratching strange to say the least, all the way to just plain stupid. Depends who you speak with, but I have heard people take positions along that range.

Also many ranks and file T Party types are talking to OWSers and finding out that other Americans are not commies or want to kill their children... (and in fact if one of the two parties dies, we may see a second one rise that is far more liberal and the Dems become the business party) Gets worst the original founders of the T Party (who left soon after it was co-opted) feel betrayed, as in really badly betrayed, and are willing to give the dems a chance. They see what happened to what they started as a horror show. (Yes one of them has been going from camp to camp talking to OWSers and warning them of THAT danger)

[CreekDog]

44. !

[FrenchieCat]

51. The Corporate media won't let that happen.....

That's why they promoted the hell out of the Tea Party.....
because the Republican's funeral had just been held back in early '09,
and then....presto, Media-ho!

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Elite media will try to prevent that

but there is a limit as to how many times you can co-opt true grass roots movements. Also they are the reason they are in this mess. So objectively, if I were the Koch brothers, I'd start to consider that this investment is not really paying off.

Oh and the OTHER grass root movement right now is fully aware of what happened to the T Parties. You could say paranoid even.

[CreekDog]

53. Wig Party

[JCMach1]

54. I agree with the premise, but not necessarily the result

While it may be about to see a further shift (or breakdown depending on how you look at it) in ideology, I don't see the Republican party 'brand' going away.

If the Paulistas manage a takeover, it will indeed be a revolution... the first since Reagan purged the moderates from the party and aligned with evangelicals.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. The Paulistas are but one branch

as they say we will see... if I am right that does not mean the end of conservatives though...

[JCMach1]

60. Exactly... and unlike the Whigs I think 'brand' Republican

will remain... regardless of what it means.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. I guess it will depend truly on how well

Or not, they do in the general.

[JCMach1]

79. I for one would love to see a multi-party system in America...

I still think we are a ways away from this happening though...

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. We need an Ammendment.

Winner takes all is in the constitution. And yes, fully agree. It would do good to the country.

I know it's not popular here, but I would also want to see mandatory voting, like in Australia. They had similar issues and that helped to solve a major portion. Ideally proportional rep. and and mandatory voting would mean a very different landscape politically...

Right now, with all the unrest, we might live to see it.

[Jim Lane]

57. No, the Republican Party won't go away. The big difference from the Whigs is the primary system.

In the 1850's, the Whig leadership that chose the candidates had a cautious, don't-rock-the-boat mentality. There was no place for the abolitionists to go except to form a new party.

These days, such widespread discontent would lead to successful primary challenges to established party favorites. This happened with the Tea Party in 2010. Sometimes (as with the ouster of Senator Bob Bennett) the insurgents succeed in putting one of their own in office. Sometimes (as with the Senate nominations of Sharron Angle and Christine O'Donnell) the insurgent wins the primary, but with a resulting loss in the general election. Sometimes (as in Chuck DeVore's loss of the Senate primary to Carly Fiorina) the insurgent doesn't even win the primary. Generally, though, it's now easier for dissidents to try to take over one of the established major parties than it would be to try to start a new one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. True, but what you are seeing is the extreme dysfunction right now

due to rigid ideology as well as purity tests. That is where there similarities lie.

While the primary is a release valve, it does have it's limits.

Now starting a new party has it's own challenges... though. And the third largest party is even less organized than the Democrats.

[zipplewrath]

74. Too much structure

The GOP won't "go away", it will just restructure/align. There is too much infrastructure in each party for them ever to go away. They just get co-opted into something new. FDR turned the democrats into the liberal party of labor, and ultimately led them to be the civil rights party. The GOP in the '50s was the "bankers party", mostly north eastern industry and banking leaders. In the '60s the liberals and civil rights party was the democrats, and they turned into the anti-war party. The GOP became the "all white male" party. They morphed into the conservative white party in the '80s and they've been stuck there since, becoming more and more a minority. The GOP right now is a very small party. People are leaving the party in droves, mostly to become "independents". In the '90s, Clinton morphed the democrats into the DLC party, inviting in the former bankers from the '50s GOP, and driving out the pacifists and to some extent ignoring labor.

I suspect another shift is coming. If the GOP loses big this time around, or even more so in 4 more years, one can expect to see someone co-opt the GOP into a major shift left, potentially picking up some labor vote, as well as latino vote. All it will take is a charismatic leader to collect the ashes of the party and refocus it in a new direction. That will give them control of the infrastructure and off they'll go, leaving Reagan in the dust, much as we tend to ignore FDR these days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. And that might be the case

We might be in for another historic shift between the two parties. You still have a very damaged brand to deal with, and if the party of Lincoln returns to it's roots, it will take a while to gain the trust of minorities who think GOP= racist.

[rhett o rick]

85. Here's an idea. When Jeb Bush wins the nomination

a big block of Conserva-Dems (Old Republicans) will break off and support him. This will be the new conservative Republican party while the tea party and wacko's get pushed out. KKKarl is already working on that. Then the Democratic Party minus their Conserva-Dems will turn to the left for support.

And yes I've been hitting the 'Nog.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. And it is not that crazy

something similar happened in 1852...

Happy holidays, and enjoy that nog.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Mary Christmas to you too

[WCGreen]

102. Does that mean all republicans are folically challenged......

And will do anything to hide that fact...

[yellowcanine]

103. Major difference - In the 1850s the energy in the Whig party was in the progressive wing - which

became the Republican Party. Today it is the reactionary know-nothing wing of the Republican Party which has all of the energy - and there is no significant part of the Democratic Party who will join them. I see the Republican Party breaking up into the Tea Party and the Ron Paul Libertarian Wing, with moderate Republicans becoming Democrats and a few Democrats and Independents possibly joining the Ron Paul Libertarian Party. If Obama and his successor (My money is on Hilary right now) can hold the Democratic left (a big if) this puts the Democrats in the driver's seat for now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. Of course, there is that

but even in this scenario we see a break up... which is kind of the point.

I would not sing too many hosannahs exactly because of WHERE the energy is.

For completeness sake the Ds back then were not precisely the most progressive bunch either.

[Oldtimeralso]

110. Why, Why, Why

are so many posters wigging out?

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Because my dyslexia got me

And I typed Wig instead of Whig.

I find the reaction, for the most part, funny...or sad.

I prefer the actual adult discussion that also happened on the thread.



Hope that explains this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Hmmm

I know, I know this a third party. I want you to read that platform though

http://www.floridawhig.com/page/platform

No serious... We know this as a libertarian, right wing, platform.

It is interesting. In this conversation it is relevant. It has a tad of Paulst thinking and a tad of the US Libertarian party. Interesting piece of rebranding.

One strand that matters though... And it goes into them streets... The idea of the duopoly in power. I am not going to say that I am particularly surprised. I just find it interesting...at a meta level.

[Sherman A1]

113. Interesting

I wonder if the split might not come from the Left & the Democrats based upon OWS & it's possible formation of a political arm of some sorts into a true progressive party.

I believe with the general discontent of these times that anything is possible.

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. read the post above this

no serious...

Chinese curse comes to mind.

[pintobean]

115. Good point.