Read This: After Surgery, Surprise $117,000 Medical Bill From Doctor He Didn’t Know

[cali]

Before his three-hour neck surgery for herniated disks in December, Peter Drier, 37, signed a pile of consent forms. A bank technology manager who had researched his insurance coverage, Mr. Drier was prepared when the bills started arriving: $56,000 from Lenox Hill Hospital in Manhattan, $4,300 from the anesthesiologist and even $133,000 from his orthopedist, who he knew would accept a fraction of that fee.

He was blindsided, though, by a bill of about $117,000 from an “assistant surgeon,” a Queens-based neurosurgeon whom Mr. Drier did not recall meeting.

“I thought I understood the risks,” Mr. Drier, who lives in New York City, said later. “But this was just so wrong — I had no choice and no negotiating power.”

In operating rooms and on hospital wards across the country, physicians and other health providers typically help one another in patient care. But in an increasingly common practice that some medical experts call drive-by doctoring, assistants, consultants and other hospital employees are charging patients or their insurers hefty fees. They may be called in when the need for them is questionable. And patients usually do not realize they have been involved or are charging until the bill arrives.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/21/us/drive-by-doctoring-surprise-medical-bills.html

greedy fucker scam.

[B Calm]

1. Just one more reason why US healthcare is the most expensive in the world!

[RKP5637]

35. All the ridiculous greed and not the best! n/t

[JI7]

2. should be illegal

[WinkyDink]

3. That's some baaaad "insurance."

[B Calm]

4. I would think bad freeloading doctor. .

[cali]

5. actually, if you read the piece, BC actually paid up for the entire sham bill

but I do think insurance companies have the power to do something about this.

[1StrongBlackMan]

25. Yeah ... They are suing the doctors that engage in these "drive-by doctoring" ...

this is going to be interesting . Thanks.

[pnwmom]

65. This is a case where insurers actually have been battling for the consumers

and where the doctors take the blame.

[sendero]

6. I would tell..

.. the doctor who brought in the other doctor to pay for it, or get ready to be sued.

$117,000? what did the surgery take a month? This shit has got to stop.

[cali]

7. there's an equally- if not even more- outrageous story at the link.

putrid.

[B Calm]

8. At the link you learn the assistant surgeon was out of network. Scary story,

thank you for posting it!

[cali]

12. you are welcome. I find it frightening too- and infuriating.

[JEB]

62. Or two years. To me $117,000 is a shitload of moola.

[Uben]

9. This happened to my wife

After her knee surgery, she noticed a bill for another surgeon in the OR. She recognized the name of the doctor....it was a PA for her orthopedist! The guy wasn't even a doctor! When she called the insurance company to complain, they said it was between her and her physician. So she called her surgeons office and asked why a PA was being charged as a surgeon in the OR. They immediately removed the charge once they had been found out. What really sucks is that the insurance company was going to pay for the guy without even verifying he was a doctor! The bill was for thousands of dollars, too! Wonder how many times they have done this? Most people probably do not go over their bills to verify the charges......my wife did.

To me, this is outright theft and deserves criminal charges.

[Sgent]

10. PA's can bill

as assistant surgeons. Depending on their contract with the insurance company, they usually only get paid 75-90% of what a MD would, but they (like a nurse practitioner) are allowed to bill using physician codes.

Note, a PA is a masters or doctorate level "mid-level" provider, not a medical assistant or the like. I point this out because there has been confusion on this in the past.

[Uben]

18. They were quick to drop the charge...

...and this was back in 2003 or 2004. We should be told who will be in the OR working on us and who is going to be charging us for services beforehand. A PA is NOT a doctor, he is an assistant studying to be a doctor, and you shouldn't be paid as a doctor until you have the shingle. HE was billed as a surgeon, not an assistant.

[Aristus]

46. PA's are not 'studying to be doctors'.

We are fully-trained and licensed to practice medicine. PA's practice in every medical discipline that employs MD's, including surgery. We are required to demonstrate competence, just like MD's. We are required to keep our medical knowledge and skills up-to-date, just like MD's. And because the PA profession actually enjoys a great deal more mobility than doctors, many PA's you encounter may have significant training and expertise in multiple medical fields of study, such as orthopedics, cardiology, gastroenterology, and so on.

We're not water boys for the medical profession...

[MADem]

51. But you aren't doctors, and you aren't surgeons. Otherwise, you'd have the titles. nt

[Aristus]

54. Yes. The title is 'Surgical PA.'

And yes, we're not doctors. And we don't claim to be.

[Hoyt]

58. They are not paid as MD/DOs. In fact, Medicare pays PAs less than 15% of a physician's Allowable

when acting as a surgical assistant. MD surgical assistans usually get about 25%.

And the physician's allowable for that surgery is probably less than $4,000 (depends on type surgery). The rest is written off. Physician and hospital charges when a patient has insurance is just a game.

Blue Cross likely does much the same.

In a lot of respects, PAs are better than MD/DOs.

[Aristus]

59. Thank you for that.

There's a lot of misinformation out there regarding PA's. I try not to blame the misinformed; our profession, even after 50 years, doesn't have the same visibility as a doctor.

In the past, some rather angry and unstable posters here have lashed out at me, apparently thinking I was practicing medicine as a Medical Assistant, instead of a Physician Assistant. I was an MA for about five years before going to PA School. But I didn't practice medicine back then. (I couldn't. An MA is part of allied health, not a provider.) There were lots of irritated accusations of 'pretending to be a doctor', and so on.

So I appreciate you standing up for us...

[Frustratedlady]

74. I have found that PAs often take the time to actually listen to the patient.

My cardiologist has a PA who is very attentive, whereas the dr. limits his time to 15 minutes or less. Communication is a huge part of an appointment and a patient is not always able to condense it down enough to fit into 5-10 minutes. Misinterpretations can cause some serious problems, so I'd much rather talk with a PA and let them pass on any critical symptoms to the dr.

I just came out of the University hospital of our state and could not believe how many times communication was a factor. Even after I was released, I could not make contact with the doctor to point out/remedy two mistakes in their prescriptions. I finally had to "dose" myself in the manner previously used before my hospitalization. What if I had been elderly and not alert to my medical history? I would have ended up taking 4 times the dose on one med. Scary.

I have dealt with 3 PAs and found them to be more analytic than their bosses.

[Aristus]

97. While I'm rarely allotted more than 15 minutes per patient, I do take as much time as possible

with patients who have a complex problem. If a patient is just in for a medication refill or review of lab results, I can usually finish those visits quickly, freeing up extra time for the patients who need it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence...

[cali]

11. I agree with you completely. It is outright theft and nothing but.

it's so slimy.

[joshcryer]

31. It is theft and fraud.

That guy should be reported. Your wife is likely not the only one. The reversed the charges because what they did was illegal. They probably don't get many people complaining.

[pangaia]

13. An orthopaedic surgeon operated on his NECK ??

Not my neck, buddy.

[Aristus]

47. Yes. An orthopedic surgeon operated on his NECK.

Orthopedists treat musculoskeletal conditions. Who would you want operating on your NECK? A gastroenterologist?

[pangaia]

82. A neurosurgeon.

In fact, the same guy who operated on my spine.

[MannyGoldstein]

56. That's why the neurologist was involved

To help ensure that the nervous system wasn't damaged.

It's pretty typical, I think.

[WillowTree]

64. That was my first thought, too.

My orthopaedist, who is the surgeon of choice for other doctors in the area when it comes to lumbar and thoracic discs, won't touch cervical discs, but refers them to neurosurgeons. The man has an ego as big as all outdoors, but he knows where the boundaries are and the neck requires the specific delicate touch of a neurosurgeon. So that gave me pause.

[dionysus]

96. i researched this when i was facing back surgery, and there is some overlap between orthopaedists

and nuerosurgeons when it comes to back surgery. luckily I ended up not needing the surgery, phew.

[Doctor_J]

14. We got 6 bills for our colonoscopy

What a racket

[PeoViejo]

15. Our provider got wise to that racket.

They arranged a deal with a local Catholic Hospital run by Nuns. My last, including removing several Polyps came to less than $400.

[onethatcares]

16. part of the problem is

you can't ask what a surgery is going to cost up front.

Presently, my wife is waiting on an oncologist to give us some direction, but the surgeon recommended by another

is ready to operate as soon as she can get a chemo port in and lose some weight prior to the surgery. We have no

idea what surgery to remove part of her liver, part of her bile duct and do re constructive work will cost. Not a freaking

clue and don't know who to ask either.

I went through the out of network thing with an anesthetist that worked with my orthopedic surgeon two years ago.

It was not a pleasant surprise to get a 1400.00 bill that wasn't expected at all.

[Orrex]

22. And yet...

Again and again we're told that "healthcare consumers" should "shop around" for the best deal.

100% bullshit almost 100% of the time, but still that's the meme put forth.


Years ago my wife had to have an MRI, and the insurance company told us we had to call them for approval on the morning of the scan, which was scheduled for 5:45AM. So we called and were told we were ok to proceed, but that the insurer might opt not to pay for the scan after the fact.

In other words, we didn't know (and had no way to know) if we would be charged $1500 until weeks later.


And if we'd needed a second scan to confirm? Well, we'd simply be fucked.

[mahina]

43. I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with it

wishing your wife healing and smooth navigation in this process for you both.

when my son was injured we went through that same free falling uncertainty so stressful on top of worrying and caregiving the last thing we need to have to worry about . In the end because of insurance, his bills came to 2k, our cap. I as was so relieved; I was expecting, I don't know, 15 20,000...unknowable.

Best luck and much aloha to you both. Peace.

[Romulox]

17. We were told that getting mandatory, for profit insurance SOLVED the problem. He's probably lying.

I need to see Drier's tax return, or I saying he's lying.

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. When were you told that the ACA would end the practice ...

Oh. I get it ... just another swipe at the ACA ... a lazy one at that.

[Romulox]

33. Nonsense. We were told that the lack of mandatory, for-profit insurance WAS the problem.

We have that now. So the "problem" mentioned in the OP is obviously BS.

The man has ACCESS TO INSURANCE. That was healthcare in America's primary problem, and it's been SOLVED.

[1StrongBlackMan]

36. Nonsense is right! ...

We were told that mandatory insurance was necessary to populate nsurance pools with health(er) consumers in order to moderate healthcare costs ... we were told NOTHING about doctors gaming the insurance companies by loading up on procedures.

[Doctor_J]

76. Thanks for the laugh. I forgot the "We need to see his tax return" from the Heritage Care Fan Club

It's Great! It will be the president's greatest achievement!

[Diclotican]

19. cali

cali

That is expenive - thanks everything what is good in this universe I live in a country with universal healt care - where I do not pay for that up front - of course I pay more taxes too.... But this is still better than this story, and so many others tell about health care in the US..

Currenty Im sceduled for a surgery - 8th next monts - and I would not worry about THAT at least....

Diclotican

[cali]

21. I wish you the best of luck with your upcoming surgery, Diclotican

I'm glad you don't have to worry about the costs.

it's not just that it's expensive, it's that it's dishonest. As others in the thread have pointed out, it's theft.

Again, I hope everything goes well for you.

[Diclotican]

42. cali

cali

Thank you - I just hope it goes as it should - with no hiccup - and I am very glad I am not to worry about the cost of the surgery too - and I agree it dishonest to do as many in the US do - surge the prize so hight that even life saving surgeries are something that you have to pay for - the rest of your life - and that you might never be healthy again because of the need to work to pay off your debt to a hospital... If americans had know - that it is possible to have a whole different way of doing health care in the US, they would revolt for a better treatment - and I do hope - for the best for everyone in the US - so they are able to get some of the same public health care as I enjoy.... Everyone should have access to health care - regardless of their wealth - or the lack of wealth... It is sick and sad to read about how it is... And even then, some say US is the best


I guess it will go rather well - the doctors have been rather good in explaining what it is about - and I have also prepped somewhat myself - reading up on the surgery I might end up having - and looking at some you tube videos - I am glad I am sleeping at that surgery...

Diclotican

[steve2470]

90. Best wishes with your surgery, Diclotican and...

I'm glad you don't have to worry about the money aspect ! By the way, how is the economy in Norway ? Growing slowly ?

[Diclotican]

92. steve2470

steve2470

Thank you - it is hopefully something that would elevate my kidney problems somewhat - and also make the peeing part somewhat more easy than it is today - at the moment I have a plastic thing to let the urine true - but hopefully after the surgery - I am not in need of anymore of that - and can do it naturally - it is not a very difficult surgery - but still - the possibilities is there..... So I hope the surgery who are doing the job know what he are doing

And I am glad I do not need to worry about the money aspect - as it is kind of paid already - universal health care do have it merits - it is in fact more or less a year since I got really sick - and ended up in the same hospital for 3 weeks - I survived to tell the tale, something I did after I got home.... I wrote a piece here on DU back then - and I guess many was reading it - even with the gramatical error and it all...

The economy is steady as it goes - not much to talk about but growing at a nice pace - Norway survived the crisis more or less without much problems - we have the benefit of a stable economy - and a lot of money in the bank, and the fact we live in one of the most peacefully corners of the world - no real enemies at the border - even the russians is peacefully, even if the relationship is somewhat cold at the moment - but still - it is peace...

[marble falls]

20. Two words - 'single payer'.

[B Calm]

98. Freeloading doctors will still be charging us.

[Crunchy Frog]

23. IMO, they are committing fraud and should not only not get paid

but should also be heavily prosecuted.

The patient has contracted for the services. You can't contract when you're unconcious.

[justiceischeap]

28. It makes me wonder if there is some fine print in those release forms he signed

or something... if not, then I agree, it's criminal.

[cali]

32. read the whole article. this is a widespread practice- and fine print or not, it's theft.

[lisby]

24. I've had this happen to me twice.

I've gotten bills from a doctor I never saw from another state who somehow was involved in my surgeries. No clue who this person was. I just flatly refused to pay it and said come try to get it. I never heard from them again.

[yeoman6987]

40. Check you credit report

They are starting to screw with everyone's credit.

[Ruby the Liberal]

26. "Invisible Providers"

Its the latest rage.

Where I live, the ER is outsourced. The Docs are not employed by the hospital and do not accept any insurance. They direct bill, you call your insurance company, your insurance company sends you a fraction of the bill, you send them that money. Then (in my case), they send followup bills demanding the rest of the money or they will send you to collections. Then, you call the insurance company back and they send a second check - but you have to wait - because they won't cut a second check until the first check has cleared.

I went through this on 3 separate occasions this past year. The more it pissed me off, the more determined I was that I would not give them a damn dime as I paid my obligation AT the hospital per my insurance.

Add to that all of the phantom "providers" whose services are tacked on to these bills - and it is overwhelming. One visit, I saw 1 guy for all of 15 minutes total but was billed for physician services for 3.

Currently, I have a draft about this "invisible provider" issue ready to send to my state's AG office to file a complaint, but need to get the finishing touches. This thread just motivated me to dig that back up and start the editing process.

[Doctor_J]

39. you must not have gotten the memo

This is the best we can do. Signed, the BOG

[jeff47]

94. You've yet to explain how you get Lieberman to vote for more.

And then move on to how you get Nelson to vote for more. And then move on to the next 8 conservative Senators.

[TM99]

53. Holy Damn!

I think I just got hit with this scam.

In August, I had a 'cardiac event'. I was told by my insurance and PCP which ER to go to. I did so. They kept me for 3 days. Thankfully it was due to my hormone in-balances, and my Endo and Cardio MD's were able to correct it over the last few weeks.

About a week or so ago, I get a bill in the mail for $1200.00 from an ER MD during that visit. I call them. They tell me that they never received insurance information. It was not a doctor's office. It was a billing service. I provided them the medicaid information. A week later, I get a call telling me they have not received payment and may consider collections. I call my insurance company. They tell me they covered everything except that MD. She is not on my insurance plan. She knows if she wants to get paid by them then she has to do the simple process of signing up. They can't do anything until it goes to collection. Then I can send it to my insurer for payment.

It sounds similar to what you describe, and I guess I can now expect another couple of months of hassle with this shit. Health care currently in the grand old US of A is sick joke.

[Ruby the Liberal]

57. That would be it

I wrote that post before I read the article - and the article specifically mentions this outsourced ER deal about halfway through. As soon as I saw it, I sent the link to my local paper saying "this isn't LA or Chicago, this is happening RIGHT HERE" and named our local hospital.

We shall see what they do with it.

One suggestion though, don't give up fighting this. If it goes to collection before it is resolved, it will stain your credit, adding insult to injury. The more pissed I got at these people, the more I fought and it took everything I had.

I do encourage you to write a letter to your State Insurance Office (and AG if applicable). Unless this becomes a known issue - nothing will ever be done about it.

[riverbendviewgal]

27. I never had a bill

Son and husband and myself saw all kinds of specalists. Had consultations and doctors consilted with other doctors. Son and husband cancer treats at least a million.

We live in Canada . I love our health care. We will never give it up. Obamacare is better than nothing but not like mine.

[Doctor_J]

38. actually Obamacare is probably going to turn out to be worse than nothing

It has made single payer impossible for at least fifty years. Which was the whole point.

[karynnj]

41. Odd that the state of Vermont thinks otherwise nt

[Hoyt]

61. Actually, it moved us closer. It was almost 20 years after Hillary Care was shot down, for anyone

to have the guts to support major coverage overhaul. We couldn't wait another 20 years if Obamacare had been defeated. That is why it is such a concocted system because Obama and supportive Democrats did everything they could to get something enacted after Republicans started obstructing. Defeat would have been catastrophic. Obamacare needs lots of work, but it got through some of the major hurdles that make future changes easier.

[Doctor_J]

63. Mandating that every man, woman, and child buy private insurance is NOT moving us closer

to being rid of private insurance. Honestly my 5 year old grandson could work through that logic. Please, please stop that one particular lie.

[Hoyt]

69. Ask him and see what he says. My friend's 3 year old daughter says Obamacare rocks when she's sick.

Much better than sitting in ER, knowing you can't pay the bill.

[Doctor_J]

72. Wait, did you reply to the wrong post?

Mandatory for-profit insurance is not a step toward getting for-profit insurance out of the system

That was the point.

I'm sure your friend's daughter would be equally happy if she got care without paying her share of a CEO's 10 million dollar bonus.

[Hoyt]

73. But that wasn't going to happen with the Republicans in Congress, and 3 year olds know it.

Better to pass something, than walk away with nothing like Hillarycare.

Besides, you aren't going to get insurers out of the game in the short-run. Heck, for-profit insurers administer traditional Medicare and Medicaid; the run Drug coverage; they run Medicare Advantage; they pay Medicare and Medicaid claims; they make medical necessity decisions; etc. It may all be under the feds guidelines, but there is no way to get them out overnight. Would be nice if we could, but it's not practical in the short-run.

[Doctor_J]

77. Now that IS a tricky one for a 5-year-old. Dem president, Dem senate, Dem house,

and this disastrous system is somehow all the fault of the republicans.

And don't worry about Hillarycare. The candidate herself has now declared that she is against single payer. It may be the world's worst, but it's good enough for our candidate.

[pnwmom]

66. Tell that to Vermont, where they are going ahead with single-payer

thanks to Obamacare.

[MoonchildCA]

67. Canada did not get single payer all at one time,

and neither will we. It will be a state by state process.

ACA has opened the door to that happening, and it's starting in Vermont.

[Doctor_J]

68. They also never required for-profit insurance by law

Vermont, a tiny state, MIGHT get SP in 2017. And nothing about the ACA made that happen.

Meanwhile Medicare was enacted in less than 3 years, and the British NHS in two. That's what happens when you have a government that works for the people instead of for the corporations.

[Hoyt]

70. Get a non-profit plan.

[MoonchildCA]

71. Yes. It did.

Vermont is taking advantage of the innovation waiver within the ACA, that allows states to come up with their own plans as long as they meet or exceed certain requirements. These states will make use of the federal funding, provided through the ACA, they would not have received had it not passed.

We did have to pass something while we could, and it's far from perfect. But it did indeed open the door to to single-payer. Vermont is a small state, yes, but they are simply the first to enact it. Other states have single-payer plans in the works, including California.

[Sgent]

78. It wouldn't happen without the ACA

ERISA (which is the biggie) along with Medicare, Medicaid, and VA laws would have prevented effective single payer. Without that ERISA reform single payer is dead before it gets started even if the other three want to go along.

[jeff47]

95. How do you get Lieberman to vote for single-payer?

And then how do you get Nelson to vote for single-payer? And then how do you get the next 8 senators to vote for single-payer?

The ACA isn't giving up on single-payer. It's moving the fight to the states. We can win in the "blue" states, and have concrete examples to destroy Republican FUD about single-payer, causing it to spread all over the country. Just like Canada got single-payer.

Let's go with your alternative instead. We put single-payer in the ACA. Lieberman and Nelson vote to maintain the filibuster. Now you have jack shit. And then you get a Republican House in 2010, thanks to the "OMG HE'S BLACK!!" caucus. Resulting in jack shit until at least 2022 thanks to Republican gerrymandering keeping the House in Republican hands.

I eagerly await your insistence that two retiring senators could be convinced to vote your way by "trying harder".

[The Wizard]

29. My response to that would be

Fuck you, sue me. And PS: I hope you die.

[Romulox]

34. Guys, this is how a private market for healthcare will *always* work. What did you expect??? nt

[Doctor_J]

37. things will be better now that everyone has to buy private insurance

[Aristus]

44. It's medical providers like these,

and not like me, a primary care provider working 55 hours a week at a medical clinic serving the homeless in a run-down, one-story building in a dodgy part of town, and who hasn't had more than one week off in two years, who inspire others to call me 'greedy', 'money-crazed', and the owner of mansions and yachts.

Yeah, we're not all like this, people. In fact, most of us aren't. Or they wouldn't be writing about it in a newspaper.

[Ruby the Liberal]

50. If we had single payer

Nobody would be pointing fingers at anyone. Docs are just trying to make a living, pay off their student loans and fund their malpractice premiums. Insurance companies are trying to figure out how to stay within the 15-20% max profitability clause lest they have to issue refunds. It all becomes a huge shell game of who can capture what cash someone left in a loophole.

Did the insurance companies cause this because they cut their reimbursement rates to pennies on the dollar, or did the doctors find a way of scamming the new rules? Chicken and egg.

[Karmadillo]

45. Insane. If only we can get a Democratic president & a Democratic congress, this

sort of thing will be brought to a speedy end with the implementation of some form of single payer.

[Logical]

48. You know we one more step added to your list. nt

[B Calm]

49. You would think democrats would be campaigning for this to impliment after the next election. Looks

like a great get out the vote issue for the midterm.

[Doctor_J]

60. Er, the Dem WH and Congress are the ones who put this in place

or did you forget your sarcasm smilely?

[still_one]

52. What isn't clear is exactly what is the contracted rate that the insurance company pays. It is

NEVER or very rarely the bill sent to the consumer. That is the price if the person did NOT have insurance. It is also padded, but the actual contracted rate the insurance company pays out is considerably less.

That is the game that is played. Perhaps I read it wrong, but if they wanted full disclosure it would be nice to see the following:

The Total out of pocket expenses from the Patient
The Total payment from the insurance, that is excepted as payment in full

The actual bill for an insured person means very little.

A perfect example is Medicare. For those hospitals that take Medicare payment in full, people receive statements from the healthcare facilities which represent huge bills, and yet the patient doesn't pay those, and Medicare gets a negotiated price.

That is the game.

A perfect example is out of network and in network providers. The consumer will pay less going to an in network provider than an out of network provider because of the negotiated contract the insurance company has

In this case he needs to appeal it. His insurance company should also work with him.

[Doctor_J]

75. American exceptionalism

In this case he needs to appeal it. His insurance company should also work with him.

Unbelievable that people who call themselves democrats are happy with this piece of shit "system" we have.

[Hoyt]

79. No one is "happy" with it, but it's better than what we had by a long shot.

[Doctor_J]

81. Really? The "thanks Obama" Heritage Care threads usually get dozens or hundreds of recs

they sure sound happy to me.

The president will likely be best known for finishing off FDR's legacy

[still_one]

89. Bernie Sanders voted for it, the 40 million uninsured are now getting health care they didn't before

[Doctor_J]

91. Only about 12 million are, and at the cost of a half-trillion dollar per year bribe to Big Insurance

yippee.

Let me ask you this - how much would you consider too much to pay in overhead (non-health related costs)? Right now private insurance takes 20%, Medicare 3%. You think that's OK. What would the 20% have to change to for you to consider it too much? Plus as noted in a couple threads today, people have to beg or fight their "insurers" to get coverage, they are expected to shop around (as if they're replacing their dishwasher), and pay lots of money anyway. Do we really have to put up with this to get healthcare? If so, why are we the only ones?

[still_one]

93. Well as long as people keep electing what they elect, yes

[still_one]

87. Where did I say I was happy with it? I just stated the way the game is set

Single payer or Medicare for all would be the way to go, but we did not have the votes for that, and a lot of uninsured folks can get medical care where they would have nothing otherwise. Bernie Sanders thought it was better than nothing. It is not the end, but a path to single payer

[MannyGoldstein]

55. Oh what a pile of #%^* we make,

when at first, we practice to triangulate

America's "health care" "system" is designed to keep a group of people wealthy while pretending to help the rest of us.

We need an actual health care system, not pusilanimity.

[Enthusiast]

86. That is a perfect definition of our situation.

America's "health care" "system" is designed to keep a group of people wealthy while pretending to help the rest of us.

[Liberal_in_LA]

80. they should name the blood sucker

[alarimer]

83. This sounds like fraud.

One of the most egregious problems in our system is the "In-network" vs. "Out-of-network" costs. You can research everything before hand to find out what your costs should be, but then they "consult" with someone who is out-of-network (without checking with the patient to see if it's okay) and your bill balloons.

This is either cluelessness or outright fraud to get an obscene payday for not doing much, in the case of the assistant.

Those totals are simply outrageous to begin with. I wonder how much it costs the UK government for similar procedures in the NHS? My guess is a fraction.

[Vinca]

84. Did they plate the disc in solid gold?

I can't imagine getting a bill like that. I remember being shocked at getting a bill for $2,500 from an assisting surgeon I was unaware of a couple of years ago. Something smells like "for profit" back clinic.

[Enthusiast]

85. Kicked and recommended!

This is why I won't get my neck done. Or other needed surgeries. I've seen medical scams right up close.

[bigwillq]

88. The whole system is defective.

I got a bill last month from blood work I took in January.
I don't even remember what it was for. I had a few doctor visits in Jan and Feb.
I understand their are a lot of patients, but I don't think it should take 8 months to send a bill out. I should get 8 months to pay it, but if I don't send in 30 days they will charge a late fee.

Corrupt system.