GamerGate, Misogyny, and Why it's Relevant to General DUers

[daredtowork]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Sissyk (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Last edited Mon Sep 22, 2014, 05:07 PM - Edit history (4)

GamerGate is a month old, but I'm going to post something about it because I think DUers need to know some context about it. I have been asked to change the wording about the reason why DUers might need some context for understanding remarks people make in a debate about misogyny, so I guess you have to use your imaginations and extrapolate.

A remark I made was taken out of context as "trivializing rape" in a thread where I was arguing *against* the trivialization of rape. My debate was with a guy who was using me as a strawman in his defense of the "gaming community" against "social justice warriors" (more about this below). Threats to rape the "social justice warriors" are part of this larger GamerGate debate.

Once my comment was taken out of context and my voice AGAINST misogyny was suppressed, we can be pretty sure what metaphor this gamer guy used for scoring his point, and I'm sure it was all the sweeter for him to be able to get the "social justice warrior" falsely labeled as the "rape trivializer".

Because the GamerGate situation is unfamiliar to people at DU, and because the misogyny of that situation is so shocking, it is easy for comments related to it to be taken out of context - and they can be used to "game the system" against the very people who are trying to fight the misogyny. I'm pretty sure the trivialization of rape in pop culture is going to bubble up from the gaming community direction again. So here is what DU should know about it to avoid enabling this sort of misogyny in the future.

This article covers the feminist point of view of GamerGate:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/38742-what-is-gamer-gate-its-misogyny-under-the-banner-of-journalistic-integrity

Key points:
*Several women who have been vocal about misogyny in the gaming community experienced an uptick in harassment. Their complaints are extreme: rape threats, death threats, etc.

*A certain segment of men within the gaming community responds to such complaints by stepping up the harassment and trying to character assassinate the women.

*This time gaming journalists were sucked in because of the claim a female game developer slept with him for reviews. So just as misogyny is often turned around as "men's rights", misogyny in gaming got turned around as "journalist corruption" or "journalist ethics".

*Game developers and review sites have started to take a stand against blatant misogyny.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

The timing of these events may have had something to do with the #yesallwomen discussions and the effort to get men to defending and start listening. This article is particularly revealing about what #yesallwomen has to do with gaming: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html

I'm personally not against gaming or gamers. I don't think all gamers or bad or that they can be depicted in a black and white way. I do think that pockets of gamer culture tend to reinforce misogynistic norms - like the desensitization to rape - and I'd like to encourage gamers to take responsibility for raising the consciousness of their own communities with the realization that's where a lot of young males socialize and get their ideas. There aren't many people in the gaming community willing to listen to messages like that yet: they are still too busy scrambling for arguments, denials, and escape routes.

Now, let's look at the "other side" of GamerGate and the guys who were arguing against me in defense of the "Gamer Community" today. Most of the quasi "men's rights" talking points they kept bring up came from articles like this one on Breitbart.com:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart

The Breitbart article is long, so let me highlight a few of the tactics:

1) Women who talk about misogyny in gaming are "Social Justice Warriors"
2) The "gaming community" is being misrepresented. Gamers aren't really that way.
3) Complaints about misogyny all stem from the case of a few evil, manipulative women who have to sleep their way to the top because they any good at making games.
4) GamerGate was a terrible violation of Journalist ethics.

Note how only one point - misogyny - has anything to do with the rape trivialization, and that's the subject that related to the topic of the post (about some teenage guys who thought a rape prank would be funny). Yet because I said the word "gamer", the full Breitbart schedule of arguments against GamerGate was invoked against me. And the same "ironic" tactics that were used to count coup on the female game misogyny critics were used on me - by gaming the system here.

I know quite a few you are aware of the GOP trolls around here and how that led to a lot of meta fuss in recent weeks. And I'm sure a good portion of you know how "men's rights" groups play into the whole GOP/Fox complex. The phenomenon I'm describing here is just another wing of that, and this is what I was willing to take this whole day to come try and fight. I know few people here would recognize this particular "right wing" on sight. But I hope I've laid it out now, and hopefully when other people from DU see this debate - particularly elements from this debate taken out of context - they will understand what is really going on.

[TygrBright]

1. Thank you for this.

As a gamer, I frequently feel an uncomfortable disconnect between what I experience and love about games, and the bizarre culture wars that are playing out now.

Of course, it's never been easy being an old lady playing Diablo 3 or Assassin's Creed or various Elder Scrolls games or even Plants vs. Zombies and puzzle/match games. I've never quite descended to the depths of creating a fake ID to participate on forums (I could totally NOT pull that off, I'm too un-hip) but I have definitely been reticent, even timid, about participating.

Gaming is so MUCH bigger than the crap that is playing out here. It's busted loose from the confines of content supplied by device manufacturers and Big Entertainment studios. It's spawned a whole new creative medium that combines visual art, storytelling, acting, and strategy.

And yet...

The issues of patriarchy, othering, and cultural exclusion remain.

Unless we can move past those, it will never fulfill all that promise.

wearily,
Bright

[daredtowork]

7. More power to you

I've played MMOs before, and I when I have nothing whatsoever against gamers or gaming. I don't think games are dangerous, bad, or in need of any censorship. It's another form of entertainment, and a potential creative medium as you say - that's it.

I think it's an additional sign of their misogyny that the GamerGate Defense crew are treating any woman with a complaint as a potential Anita Sarkeesian. The most frustrating part is the "gamer" mentality they bring to all of it. Because one woman may or may not have dated a reporter, suddenly all women are exchanging sex for good reviews so their "mediocre" work will win over the superior work of men. And of course these women are not really being attacked: they manufactured the thousands of vicious comments against themselves, and then they promised sex to mods to get those "opinions" suppressed! How do you talk to people who are constantly trying to score points against you?

I'm sure you are weary, so thank you so much for taking the time to comment on yet another post on this topic.

[TygrBright]

12. Actually, I haven't seen that many posts on the topic here at DU.

The topic is on my radar, naturally, and I do follow threads on WHM (I love David Futrelle!) and subscribe to FemFreq and various other blogs. But I haven't really seen that much discussion of it here.

I wouldn't expect to, though. This is a political forum, and while the topics here do range widely, misogyny in the gaming community isn't really on a mainstream radar yet. But it's getting there as people realize the size of the whole gaming community-- that is, all of us who regularly play and appreciate, not just the gamerbros who are whimpering about "losing THEIR" treehouse.

For the neo-Libertarians and borderline Libertarians, the issue of "free speech" has always been a stalking horse for that famous Bill of Rights amendment: "The Right To Be An Asshole."

What they don't get is that while yes, we as a community want to protect and encourage freedom of speech, we as a community also have to create and enforce cultural norms that allow the fullest possible participation of everyone in the economic, social, and political life of the nation.

What is more restrictive, diligently sanctioning (OUTSIDE the legal system) speech that degrades the community environment? Or, ultimately, having to implement ever-more-draconian legal restrictions of many types to deal with the environment of hate, privilege, bullying, exclusion, and othering that finally results from suppressing that sanctioning?

I know which one I'd pick.

firmly,
Bright

[daredtowork]

21. I remember a few posts

I commented in at least one. I doubt they got much play here, since this community isn't exactly dominated by gamers. However now I wish it had because there was a big "misogyny on DU" debate going on at the time, and perhaps those posts drew more than usual "men's rights" advocates here, distorting that conversation.

[Separation]

33. While I empathize what you say

Be careful what you wish for. One day it might be a cause you believe in that is labeled hate speech.

I have been following this story pretty much from its painful begining, what I see is immature, jealous, vindictive, and misogynistic boys being hateful to her. Some don't even know why or what they are doin other than somebody came into a forum and said, "look here, she is a slut, let's get her!"

They will be on the wrong side of history, like those against equal rights for all, history will judge them and it won't be kind.

Here is one thing to keep in mind. A majority of these gamers are boys. There is a growing number of them saying this is wrong. This is probably the first time these boys have actually stood up for something that affected more than just their next food stop.

[TygrBright]

35. Causes I believe in have already been labeled "hate speech."

Equal marriage rights, for example.

So long as the sanctioning is outside the legal system, we keep duking it out-- that's what "culture wars" mean. When we have a consensus, that battle is marked "over for now" and we move on to the next one.

It is a very messy, imprecise process.

But I prefer it to legal restriction, and thus when I'm on the taking it side of "You're wrong, you bad person, and you're using hate speech" accusations, I try to NOT respond in kind, but bring the focus back to the issue at hand.

On occasion, I've even gone back to re-examine whether I might indeed be reacting from a position of bias and ignorance. (And to my lasting shame, sometimes I have been.)

There is an ongoing chicken/egg debate about laws and cultural sanction: Does one create the other? Yes, both ways. It's not a unidirectional process, it's a feedback loop.

So I'm hoping very much that you are correct about a growing number of the young male gamers standing up against misogyny, because that's a powerful inertial pull in the right direction.

optimistically,
Bright

[justiceischeap]

9. Yeah, between some of the gaming forums and online co-op (which more & more games are pushing)

it's hard to miss the crap end of the gaming community.

You'll see a lot of women talking about how they don't wear mics when co-oping so their voices don't give away their gender. They also tend to create gender neutral gaming names so as not to give away their gender (I do the same but don't co-op often) and when guys do twig to the fact they're gaming with a woman, there's almost always one that makes some kind of rape/make a sandwich/not a real gamer comment. I recently saw one post (from 2009) from a guy bragging about being kicked from Xbox Live forums for saying he wanted to f*ck some woman in the gaming industry. He had buddies in the same thread that thought it was funny he got booted and one guy posted he thought the woman "had a horse face."

Anyway, I sorta ran into this at my local GameStop recently. I went in to pick up Destiny (which, so far, I don't think is worth all the hype) and the kid behind the counter asked if I was getting it for a friend. I said no, it's for me and he looked stunned. I don't know if it's because I'm a woman or an older woman (to him) or both but it pissed me off. Why would he automatically assume the game was for someone else? There are so many different ways he could have asked that question, though they all probably would have offended me. I was probably playing Pong on Atari before he was born.

[daredtowork]

11. This is a good point

But guys also bring heavy social pressure for mics, because they fear being manipulated by other guys pretending to be a different gender.

And women are also highly pressured for their picture to prove they aren't "hiding anything". When is the last time guys were asked for a picture? If the picture is pretty, it probably goes in some "special collection".

[TygrBright]

17. I've actually made a few friends among the young guys, but...

...I think some of that is my age. I always do pick a non-gendered gaming name, and when I get to know another gamer well enough to admit to being female, I ALSO include my age in general terms. Some guys are tickled to know that a grandmother is whaling on monsters with them. But I'm not at all sure how they'd feel if I were in their age group.

I don't pretend to being a gamergeek, I think the most I've ever spend gaming in a given week is 6-7 hours, and I've never reached utterly utter levels in any game. But no one should have to, IMO. The community should be large enough, welcoming enough, and diverse enough to be kind and welcoming to hobbyists and noobs and casual gamers.

But as long as the gamerbro subculture protects "their turf" to the point of creepy online terrorism, we as a community won't realize all the creativity and cultural impact we could have.

regretfully,
Bright

[daredtowork]

22. Older people are usually regarded as potential patrons

Especially in "free to play" games where getting anywhere actually costs money. Older people are likely to have jobs and also desire the services of younger people (who have more time/energy/skill) to do things for them. And sometimes genuine respect is a factor, too - especially in International communities.

But if you're a young woman - it's all about if you're hot or not.

[TygrBright]

23. Sadly, I think you're right about that with young women.

I've never run across the "patron" phenomenon but I really don't spend all that much time in Co-op.

I think some of the "hot or not" mindset is also an artifact of Internet anonymity-- young guys who are somewhat more socially-sophisticated in real life but see the Internet as a place where they can let their inner misogynist moron out to play.

resignedly,
Bright

[daredtowork]

28. I think it's mainly free to play games

And I can't speak with any expertise on it. I checked some of this out during a period when I was in bed a lot, and I was mainly just checking out the scene. I don't want to pretend to speak with any authority on it.

I think the anonymity problem is ending, though. While it does enable more "freedom", it also causes a lot of paranoia in-gaming. Now technology is catching up. People will insist on using mics, and that will make it harder for women to go "under cover" as men.

The problem with letting the "inner misogynist moron" out, is that if guys do spend so much time in that environment that it becomes the cultural norm for them - then this attitude seeps out into the real world. That's why I have a strong suspicion that the kids that played the "rape prank" were desensitized through gaming. Listening to rap music that glorifies rape is isolated and sporadic. Gaming is a social and continuous experience. It trains your brain on how to interact with people. Now we have 6 teenagers who may have difficulty getting into college or getting a job because somehow they've been immerse in an environment where such pranks seem funny. If that was a gaming environment, and guys have an interest in not ruining their real lives that way, they should reconsider letting that "inner misogynist moron" run free anywhere.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

3. Um, I'm not always active in the DU, but why are you juried out for an opinion?

Are opinions held by Democrats now something that DUers think is an acceptable to use the jury system to eliminate?

I mean, I know I'm subject to this sort of stuff myself, but I thought I was an outlier - subject for special hatred because I represent a portion of the party that a lot of people here would not like to exist. But this sounds a bit different.

Can someone state that accusations of improperly trying to influence gamer reviews is bad, without being juried?

Can they come out against rape accusations not being taken seriously without being juried?

Can they come out and speak to what the majority of gamers (as opposed to some ugly minority) believe without being juried?


Seriously. How much of a hair-trigger intolerant echo chamber has this place become?

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[daredtowork]

5. It wasn't for my opinion

It was for the content of one of my replies in a longer argument, which referred to raping me for my opinion, which was a reference to the debate described in the debate I described above. The poster in question was himself promoting that debate with "Social Justice Warrior", invocations of my making unwarranted attacks on the gamer community, etc. i.e., he was using me as a strawman to re-argue the whole GamerGate debate when the only point I was trying to make is that the term "rape" is used casually in the gamer community, and guys should be take responsibility to address it there.

Even without being familiar with that context, it would have been familiar from reading a couple of posts that I was taking the side against the trivialization of rape, and these guys have been conducting a pretty well organized attack against women who stick their head up on this topic.

[Rex]

15. Some people don't actually read much of the OP.

They are perpetually outraged and easily ignored.

[Rex]

14. Sure you are champ.

[Recursion]

4. I've seen "social justice warrior" used a few times here, sadly

I'm glad at least that the major games publications don't seem to be taking the MRA bait on this one.

[daredtowork]

6. Yes the talking points have been coming together

I recognized that I was becoming the "opposition" for a completely different agenda pretty quickly.

The problem here is most people wouldn't recognize or have an opinion on what the "gamer community" is like (if there really is such a thing). It's a completely blank slate that people can write their agendas on and sword rattle about. But all the grandstanding prevents us from asking simpler questions and addressing smaller problems: like toning down the rape-invocations.

[intaglio]

8. I've been following this on David Futrelle's site "we hunted the mammoth"

The attacks on women from the "gamerbros" have got to the stage where they need to be challenged every their petulant rants show up.

[daredtowork]

10. They also hunt in packs

Once one of these guys found my remark that associated the trivialization of rape with gamer culture, pals started piling up to pile on. They can easily set up a link somewhere and say: "we need an Army of Anti-Slut Warriors here!" If it's a place with a persistent thread, I can see how the comments could build into the thousands for high profile targets like Anita Sarkeesian or Zoe Quinn.

I'm not sure if such a link was set up in my case or whether this guy just had friends over or even a sockpuppet account. It's also hard to see because the GamerGate people are mixed in with comments from DU people - some of whom are gamers, so it's hard to pick out. But the people with the low DU post count and following the Breitbart argument I explained above, are the ones to keep an eye out for.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

13. You were juried out because you said another DUer was going to threaten you with rape

Last edited Mon Sep 22, 2014, 01:08 PM - Edit history (2)

I suggest you read the TOS for the site and instead of accusing DUers of being someone from some other site stalking you that probably 99% of DUers have never heard of, drop the snark and paranoia. All you did in that thread to someone who was having a discussion with you about a theory out of left field was take a bunch of "shots at the geek" (Level up, gamer boy....score some more cherries in Ms Pac Man), which of course, is considered a perfectly acceptable form of online bullying and shaming in certain circles.

And before you start....full disclosure. Not a real "gamer". I've got a PS3 that mostly collects dust except for watching Blu-ray. But it's obvious you've got an issue with "gamers" as you turned a thread about six random idiots in a RAPE shirt and made it about "gamers" with zero proof what their actual hobbies are. I guess they are the new low hanging fruit for certain circles.

[daredtowork]

24. Go back and review the comments

And compare them to the Breitbart talking points above. How am I paranoid when they are dragging Social Justice Warriors, Anita Sarkeesian and "Corrupt Journalists" (i.e. women who talk about misogyny sleeping with gaming reviewers) into the equation?

The remarks you mention were all provoked through the needling of the guy in question. His use of gaming imagery brought on replies that used gaming imagery. He's the one that brought up cherries.

I only planned to make one comment in that thread about gaming - that this a source of the trivialization of rape. Those other commenters were the ones who came in and insisted on make it a GamerGate debate. I mentioned that I have no problem with gaming and I'm actually the wrong target for that debate several times, but they just went on trying to nitpick and bring their talking points against an argument I wasn't making - i.e., trying to win the GamerGate debate all over again.

I repeatedly said it then, and I'll say it again: people use the term rape in a casual way while gaming, and that's a place kids get exposed to it. Guys should take some responsibility and deal with it in amongst themselves.

I "suggest" you take that as good advice instead of clinging to the GamerGate bandwagon.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

27. So you made a negative comment towards gaming....

....in relation to a picture that had absolutely nothing to do with gaming, nor do you have any proof that the six bozos shown are "gamers", and you expected it not to be commented on, and are upset that other people "made it into a thread about gaming", and their disagreeing with you proves some kind of point that gamers are hostile?

I'll tell you, that's some chutzpah.

[daredtowork]

30. The action of those boys raises a question

Why did they think a "rape prank" would be perceived as funny.

They have been immersed in an environment where rape jokes are casual and laughed at. This has to be a social environment: other people are there doing the laughing.

There are always "male preserve" possibilities besides gaming: sports bars, stock trading boiler rooms, etc. For teenagers, though, gaming is a likely scenario.

And I stand by my comment that guys should take some responsibility in addressing the trivialization of rape in gaming communities.

I'm glad I have the chutzpah to say that.

[Chisox08]

41. The corrupt journalist issue is a lot bigger then Zoe Quinn

Unfortunately for her it was the straw that broke the camels back. There has been many times gamers questioned the integrity of the gaming press. For example the Kane & Lynch incident with Gamespot, game publishers flying reviewers out wining and dining them and showering them with gifts for positive press coverage,recent example of this was Sony flying them out to NY and putting them in the top hotels and presenting the with free customized PS4's. It's an issue of trust and can you trust anything you hear from them.

[OneGrassRoot]

16. They're trying to make the term "social justice warrior" derogatory?

How very Limbaugh-like of them.

Thank you for the post.

K&R

[snooper2]

19. It was from the get go, read the urban dictionary

Also, you can be on any end of the politcal spectrum and be a "Social Justice Warrior"


Common trait for example-

Does one latch onto their pet peeve at any chance on the intertube and try to score SJW points with their peers? High fives over the intertubes?

[OneGrassRoot]

20. Never heard that before. But I'm not into gaming or tumblr...

and a quick search shows that's used most often in those fora.

If someone referred to me as a social justice warrior, I would have thought it a compliment.

Good to know! Thanks.

[daredtowork]

26. I have a feeling that's intentional

If someone doesn't notice they are being insulted, that's part of the joke. Extra points.

[OneGrassRoot]

36. Oh, absolutely. No doubt about that.

I'm just so weary of words being corrupted, as Limbaugh & Co. did with the word feminism and so many others.

[daredtowork]

25. Yes, it's a derogatory term

It also implies that I'm not actually interested in doing the right thing or improving anyone's quality of life - I'm just trying to get attention, someone's paying me to do it, or there's some other corrupt motive involved.

It's actually kind of hilarious to think some men might believe that women would only be interested in addressing sources of misogyny if they got paid for it.

[snooper2]

18. bad form to get kicked out of a thread with a hide and then start a new OP

You have to wait AT LEAST 24 hours LOL-

[Bjorn Against]

29. I hope you are not referring to me

Because if you are I think you are going after the wrong target, we probably agree far more than we disagree. I did not alert on you.

[daredtowork]

31. Not at all

You struck me as a very reasonable person to discuss the issue with, though I was a bit alarmed when you asked me which games I played. I thought you were going to start nitpicking on that, but you kindly backed off.

The person who probably did it was the one who was initially arguing with me over being a "Social Justice Warrior", etc. If you look at the thread - there's also another guy that comes in with a low post count and trolling remarks. Sadly, there are also a couple of established DUers that seem to be on the full GamerGate train as well.

I regard you as someone who loves gaming, apparently belongs to a great community, and probably wishes this whole thing would just go away. I also agree with your "larger Internet interactions" theory.

I have a feeling I've had more "free to play" exposure than you have.

[Bjorn Against]

32. Good, and for the record even if it may have seemed I was siding with the others

I am actually probably closer to your position than I am theirs, while I think gamers are unfairly maligned I also think feminists are unfairly maligned.

If someone called me a social justice warrior I would wear it with a badge of honor, that is not the insult those guys think it is.

[daredtowork]

34. The big irony is

I wouldn't be maligning gamers across the board. I've indulged myself, and I know there are a lot of female gamers. A completely different fight (the "men's rights" one) was being imported into that thread.

[jamzrockz]

37. If you want to know why gamers

are very opposed to the whole SJW influencing their beloved hobby, you only need to look at what they did to the youtube atheist community. This was a community that was very active, they had conferences, debates, put out god quality videos and talks every month. But after the whole atheist plus deal, the community was divided, people who had no idea what misogyny is were accused of being one and the community right now is a shell of its former self.

This is what is being resisted in the gaming community where we have Anita Sarkisian coming out from no where to tell the community that their beloved hobby is misogynist. She started with her series which made some good point but wasn't a correct representation of the gaming. Lots of people tried to correct her on some of the points she made but she ignored just about every rational,level headed opposition. She only payed attention to the trolls and hate comments that came her way and the troll caught on and did what trolls do best.

She did not care to have a dialogue with the gaming community, all she wanted was to spread her message. The backlash got even worse when gamers learned that she wasn't even a gamer and was lying the whole time. All of this is not because she was a girl, her attempt to smear gaming was the problem. Had a guy pulled the same stunt Anita is pulling, he would have been run out of town even faster than they run Anita out of town

Then here are some of the well made rebuttal to her critique about video games.

Gamers just want to game, they do not want to participate is some social experiment with Anita.

[Chisox08]

38. We just want to play our games and

just like our games don't care who plays them we as gamers don't care who plays them.

Anita has some good points but the way she goes about presenting them is the problem. I've watched her videos and observed her Fox News style approach to the subject, meaning she starts with a conclusion and cherry picks and twist facts to fit her conclusion. Like in her examples in the women as window dressing video she shows a scene from Hitman where the player is in a strip club and she shows the player killing and desecrating their bodies while claiming the player isn't punished for their actions. In reality the player is punished for killing civilians and on that part of the game it is easier to avoid that room all together on your way to your target. In Bioshock 2 the female character she claims is nothing but window dressing plays a major role in the story. Ironically it's men who literally become background decoration, because they get captured and encased in concrete and used as statues in the background.

&list=UUxeNJdOLFPqIHjuZRpEgfTQ



Some of the most celebrated characters are female like Samus, Lara Croft, Bayonetta, Commander Shepard and tons of others.

[el_bryanto]

39. So you are saying Sarkisian merited the treatment she received?

Or do you believe she is faking the abuse?

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point.

Bryant

[Chisox08]

43. There are trolls in every community

I'm not saying she deserves the name calling and threats nor are they fake. All I'm saying is that her videos are misleading at best when it comes down to the games and issues within the games that she is presenting. It is like Jack Thompson's crusade on violence in video games causing real life violence.

[el_bryanto]

44. I didn't find it so - I thought she made some good arguments

I don't agree with everything she said, but I thought it was well worth considering.

Why do you think that some gamers find it acceptable to act the way they do?

Bryant

[Chisox08]

46. Some people are just trolls and you can't explain their behavior

This whole gamergate argument has gotten nasty on both sides. I wish it could go back to gaming but it will be a while before that happens and I'm hoping it doesn't escalate further then it already has.

The reason why I find her work misleading is she ignores the fact that the games do punish you for killing innocent npc's male or female the damsel in distress trope is slowly fading away. There are strong female protagonist in games who are not just the Ms. Male Character even her example of Ms. Pac-man is kind of misleading, there was actually a bit of story in the Ms. Pac-man game that wasn't present in the original Pac-man game. She raises some interesting points and some I agree with but she could have made some of her points without being misleading.

[Egnever]

47. Wow the lady in your first video nails it for me starting at like the 10 min mark

thanks for those.

[Egnever]

40. Odd that you dont link to the thread or the post you had locked

but then go into an honestly TLDR conspiracy rant.

I saw the thread that had nothing to do with gaming that you interjected gaming into and then proceeded to get nasty with people who disagreed with your connection.

Your hide was deserved IMHO and had nothing to do with gaming or misogyny.

[DonCoquixote]

42. as I said last time nthis reared it's head

the white boy majority is fading online. The best reviewers are Jessica Chobot and Morgan Webb. The author of Drake's un charted was a lady name Amy Henning, and Tomb Raider, that sexist icon, was redone by a Lady programmer to rave reviews and sales. What happens is that you get a bunch of privileged, weak people who do not want to admit they are no longer the default setting for power, even in cyberspace, which, for all it's "virtual reality", is becoming very much like the rest of the world. Of course, rather than embrace the power this would give, especially if gamers got together and started to make our voice felt, we instead want to retreat to out little corner, thinking that we can say "I've got mine."

I got news for you little boys, I have seen the future, and it ai'nt you. Furthermore, in addition to being practical, I LIKE a future where you cliquish, racist, right wing little tykes do not get to keep dumbing things down. Yeah, I heard you whine that they did not give Lara Croft her infamous cleavage in the new Tomb Raider, yeah I heard you whine that Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite made you think too hard, yeah, I see the way you harass people on World of Warcraft, threatening to rape people, or the way you heaped glory on the GTA series because you get to play some big macho dude that hits prostitutes.

Guess what, the industry is leaving you sad sacks behind, because they know the real big money is NOT going to be made bowing to you. No, the games will not be some cliché of "girly"; the ladies will gladly beat you in deathmatches, and expose you as the man-children you are. The same can be said for your dads and older brothers who think they can keep your mothers and sisters in the kitchen.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. You're trying to justify your hijack of a thread by saying "anyone who objected is misogynist"

There was a thread that was nothing at all to do with gaming. You tried to make it so; some people objected you had brought up gaming with no justification. Because you made a completely unjustified suggestion about another DUer's morality, you got a post hidden. Now, you are claiming that anyone saying "gamers aren't really that way" are repeating right wing talking points. You dragged gamers into an unrelated thread, and now are trying to say that anyone trying to defend games are misogynists.

This is complete bullshit. You are making DU suck.

[Sissyk]

48. Locking.

Please consider re-posting your concerns about misogyny in the gaming world without the verbiage related to DU, DU Members, meta in other threads, etc.

Thank You!