Fuck this: Secret Service messes up and we pay the price? No way.

[cali]

The Secret Service screwed up Friday night. In a mind-boggling breach of security, a troubled former Army sniper named Omar J. Gonzalez allegedly jumped the fence at the White House, sprinted to the front door and walked in. It wasn’t until he got inside that a Secret Service officer guarding the door stopped him.

And now the Secret Service — which hasn’t exactly covered itself in glory the past few years — wants us to pay for its mistake, to once again intrude on more public space and make suspects out of millions of visitors, residents and office workers who come near the White House every day. To further encroach on the country’s most important values: our openness and our freedom.

The security gurus think they might want to keep people off the sidewalks around the nation’s most famous residence. Or maybe screen tourists a block away from the White House. They want to Anschluss even more public space to expand The Perimeter around 1600 Pennsylvania, amping up the feeling of hostility, fear and paranoia that already pervades the heart of our nation.

<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/secret-service-messes-up-and-we-pay-the-price-no-way/2014/09/22/3c81ded0-4256-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html

[Cooley Hurd]

1. .

[blkmusclmachine]

6. This is how Democracy ends. With thundering applause.

[Cooley Hurd]

13. You *totally* missed my point apparently...

[CJCRANE]

2. I think it's common sense TBH.

[atreides1]

10. Really?

Funny intruding on the public wasn't the first thought after this incident:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/13/us/crash-white-house-overview-unimpeded-intruder-crashes-plane-into-white-house.html


How about we fire the agents that were on duty to set an example, instead of setting up road blocks and check points that will hamper the freedom of Americans in their own Capital.

Unless of course the idea of a police state makes common sense...if that's the case then perhaps this will be the beginning?

[CJCRANE]

23. I just don't think it's very secure having a fence that random people can climb over

and then taking a chance on whether they can sprint to the White House or not.

Downing Street was gated off a few years ago IIRC.

[newfie11]

3. That is nuts

I've walked past there 5 days a week for two years. There is no reason to close off more area.

If the guards, SS, and whoever it is on the roof did their jobs this guy would never have gotten that far.

Why didn't they turn the dogs out, why didn't the shoot the gut as he was running.

They screwed up.

[winter is coming]

12. Makes me wonder if they screwed up on purpose. n/t

[maddiemom]

39. Interesting question. A lot of weird breeches in security have been occuring in this administration

Like heavily armed people showing up in the crowds during presidential speeches. These little incidents are reported from time to time, then forgotten. Does make you wonder...

[fadedrose]

41. Me too

[steve2470]

4. lock the north portico doors, problem solved

Last edited Mon Sep 22, 2014, 07:52 PM - Edit history (1)

If the SS had released the dogs on the guy and had locked the doors, this would have been a 24 hour story at most. I'm sorry, but if you jump the WH fence, you should expect the dogs to grab one of your extremities. Apparently the SS did not release their dogs for some reason.

[justiceischeap]

20. The reason I read was because sometimes the dog will go after the wrong individual

So they were concerned one of the agents chasing this guy down would get attacked by the dog instead of the guy.

Of course, what worries me is all the details that are being given out about this event. It's like a playbook for the next fence jumper that may not be less harmless.

[former9thward]

38. The North doors are used constantly.

As in 24/7. If it was locked someone would have to be unlocking it every few seconds. That is not reasonable. I think the media is overplaying it.

[steve2470]

44. The media is not overplaying it, the guy got INTO the White House, not just on the lawn

I think the doors should be locked. If it prevents a future intruder from killing or injuring President Obama, his family, the WH staff or a future President and/or his/her family from being killed or injured, then it's worth it. I really don't care about the convenience to the Secret Service. If those doors had been locked, he would have been stopped cold. The Secret Service can do what it takes to lock and unlock those doors all day long, and get the locks changed if they need to. Locked doors are only common sense. This idea makes much more sense than excluding the public from an even bigger area of Washington.

We disagree.

[fadedrose]

42. Makes me wonder

[Hippo_Tron]

65. The guy was mentally unstable from serving his country in a war

I'm glad that they didn't have dogs bite off his extremities.

[Egnever]

5. I agree F that

That is the peoples house and the president understands the risk when he runs for the office.

A big fuck that to the idea people should be kept any farther away than they already are.

[Glorfindel]

7. Perhaps Her Brittanic Majesty could lend us some of the Queen's Guards

They seem to do a really good job guarding Buckingham Palace (and other sites). Plus, they're really decorative.

[brooklynite]

17. You apparently missed the Nixon Administration

[Journeyman]

18. Eh, except for the bloke who made it all the way to the Queen's bedroom . . .

1982: Queen fends off bedroom intruder

A man has broken into Buckingham Palace and spent ten minutes talking to the Queen in her bedroom.

At around 0715 BST Michael Fagan, 31, scaled the walls around the palace and shinned the drain-pipe up to the Queen's private apartments.

Barefooted and wearing a t-shirt the unemployed father of four evaded electronic alarms and palace and police guards before disturbing the Queen by opening a curtain.

The Queen was only able to raise the alarm when he asked for a cigarette.

She calmly called for a footman who held the intruder until police arrived.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/9/newsid_2498000/2498731.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Fagan_incident

[steve2470]

19. and Maggie Thatcher's hotel being blown up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brighton_hotel_bombing

[HipChick]

40. No comparison...Thatcher was targeted

They just missed

[steve2470]

43. The comparison is, UK security failed in both instances

The first incident, yes, the Queen was in Buckingham Palace. The second incident, the PM was in a hotel, which should have been properly guarded. I guess we disagree.

[Generic Other]

54. Queen Victoria had one too! The Boy Jones

In 1838, aged approximately 14, he entered Buckingham Palace, disguised as a chimney sweep. He was caught by a porter in the Marble Hall and, after a chase, captured by the police in St James's Street, with Queen Victoria's underwear stuffed down his trousers. He was brought before Queen Square Police Court on 14 December. It turned out that he had frequently mentioned his intention to enter the palace to his employer, a builder. Although he had apparently stolen linen and a regimental sword from the palace, he was acquitted by the jury.

On 30 November 1840, nine days after the birth of Queen Victoria's first child, Princess Victoria, he "scaled the wall of Buckingham Palace about half-way up Constitution Hill", entered the palace, and left it undetected. On 1 December 1840, he broke in again. Shortly after midnight a nurse discovered him under a sofa in the Queen's dressing room and he was arrested. His father's plea of insanity being without success, he was sentenced to three months in a house of correction. The 1840 incident caused a stir because initially it was feared that it might affect the Queen, happening so shortly after childbirth.

Before his release from Tothill Fields Prison on 2 March 1841, attempts were made to persuade Edward Jones to join the Navy. On 15 March 1841, after a snack in one of the royal apartments, "the boy Jones" was caught by the reinforced police force guarding the palace. This time, he was sentenced to three months hard labour. This third incident caused a furore, and three additional palace sentries were appointed...[Afterwards] Jones became an alcoholic and a burglar, and later went to Australia, where he became the town crier of Perth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_boy_Jones


on edit: And this guy..."In September 2004 member Jason Hatch climbed the walls of Buckingham Palace dressed as Batman...."

[FSogol]

8. This is just another case of DU wanting to have it both ways.

The proper thing to do during a potential attack is to open fire. The Secret Service (is it really necessary to refer to them as the SS?) shows some restraint and is now criticized.

The Secret Service has had some serious problems lately. Time to fire the people responsible. Major changes are unnecessary and are not required by one guy approaching the building after the President has left.

[cali]

9. that's a silly claim. people have said release the dogs,

lock the doors, pay attention. I believe one person has said the SS should have shot the guy.

[FSogol]

14. Have you forgotten the woman who tried to drive her car past WH barricades?

[HipChick]

46. She was black..shot on sight..

[rocktivity]

11. All the security gurus have to do is assign people to DETER people

from climbing over the White House fence, running across the lawn, and enterING the building.

They've been bragging about how "humanely" the jumper was treated. The more I look at this picture, the more I think that's a cover story for their just not seeing him until he got inside the door.



Have someone patrolling both sides of the fence. Have someone patrolling the lawn area. Have someone on guard outside the front door. Have someone on guard inside the front door. That way, if no one felt like chasing the guy, he wouldn't have gotten in.

I'm willing to bet that the guy who showed up the next day did so because he felt empowered when he saw or heard about this.



rocktivity

[justiceischeap]

22. The SS is saying they don't have enough people as it is.

People aren't joining the secret service for some reason... maybe it's because the one's most likely think Obama is from Kenya.

However, I'd suggest maybe borrowing some folks from the FBI, maybe a few from the DC police to patrol more regularly outside the fence. I see mounted DC cops at the Lincoln Memorial all the time. They should be patrolling the White House instead (one mounted officer at the memorial would probably be enough). Have the WH SS canine units patrol the grounds more regularly. Hell, build a mote on the inside part of the fence but don't block off more public access from a building that used to be open to the public.

[Aerows]

25. Or maybe

we need to have a very large change in mindset among all law enforcement agencies that their convenience isn't more important than the liberty and lives of those they are supposed to be serving - you know, the people who pay their salaries.

We could also quit jumping into every conflict in the world to satisfy defense contractors and spend money at home instead of sending manpower and treasure into situations that are none of our concern.

[rocktivity]

27. Right -- and no, it DOESN'T have to look like a World War II movie. n/t

rocktivity

[onenote]

31. the Secret Service has more than doubled in size in the past 35 years

When Reagan was shot, there were around 1500 Secret Service agents. Today, there are over 3000 special agents and another 1200 uniformed division agents.

I haven't seen any reports of the Secret Service claiming that they're having trouble recruiting agents. Do you have a link?

[justiceischeap]

33. From this WaPo article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/secret-service-reviews-white-house-security-after-fence-jumper-enters-mansion/2014/09/20/23df4f6a-40e0-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

Former agents said they fear the breach may be related to a severe staffing shortage the agency has struggled with in the last year in its Uniform Division. This is the team of officers with primary responsibility for securing the White House grounds, and the service has been flying in agents from field offices around the country to do temporary assignments. Those agents naturally would have less familiarity with the grounds and intruder response plans.

[Generic Other]

55. Field offices?

Get the hell back to Dodge! Double the number since Reagan years? 3000 of them? They can damn well secure the perimetr at the White House. What the hell? Were they eating donuts and playing cards in the guard house?

[FSogol]

50. They are hiring and have been for months. n/t

[hfojvt]

15. Anschluss?

That doesn't mean what the writer thinks it means.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anschluss

[cali]

21. yeah, I noticed that too. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

16. Darren Wilson's looking for work.

[Aerows]

24. Do you *seriously* expect

any Law Enforcement agency to accept responsibility for screwing up anymore?

The default response is "let the public pay the price." Oh, we shot a 12 year old? Oops, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh, we nearly killed a 2 month year old in its crib with a flash grenade when conducting a no-knock raid on the wrong house? Oh, well, the police have to keep themselves safe. Oh, we shot somebody's dog in its own back yard when we leaped a private fence in pursuit of a suspect? A dog certainly isn't worth inconveniencing an officer.

When you start firing people and taking away their pensions for incompetence instead of giving them paid vacations, they will start taking their jobs more seriously. Those responsible for security need to be held accountable and responsible for ... uh, security, not the general public. This mentality that the convenience of LEO's is more important than the liberty and lives of those they are supposed to be serving has run amok.

[951-Riverside]

26. Putting up external checkpoints won't prevent someone from jumping the fence. n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

28. I have the perfect answer.

You need security cameras with smart software programs that can tell the difference between human forms and shadows cast by trees. Where a human is moving in a no-trespassing zone, the alarms should be set off to warn people.

I still don't know why this software is not available yet for security cams.

[jberryhill]

30. Here's the thing about that

The reason that we used to send aircraft toward Russia and the reason Russia still sends aircraft toward our defense zones is to watch the tracking radar systems light up, and thus gain valuable information about the defense systems with an eye toward penetrating them.

In order to counter that type of testing, you want to act "within" the limits of the system. If the severity of a threat can be assessed as it approaches, then it is preferable not to demonstrate the outside limits of the effectiveness of the defensive system, to avoid having the capabilities of the defensive system fully exposed.

The situation here is that the President and his family were not on the premises. If he had already been confidently flagged as "unarmed nutter" mid-sprint, then grabbing him at the door is preferable to "demonstrate hidden death ray device on roof".

[Generic Other]

56. hidden death ray device on roof

OMG, don't give them ideas!

[jberryhill]

29. Chip Carter used to jump the fence to sneak out and get high

I imagine DU would have wanted him shot.

[ColesCountyDem]

32. We must agree to disagree. I don't have a problem with this. n/t

[Callmecrazy]

35. Why not just modify the fence?

Making it harder for people to climb over it? That's one solution.
Modify the top of the fence so that it turns outward.

[steve2470]

45. good idea nt

[rickford66]

36. One night in 1969 we peed on the WH fence.

Drunken sailors needed a pit stop. Why not stop and yell Tricky Dicky at the same time? Sounded like a good idea. I guess security wasn't as sophisticated back then either.

[2banon]

47. Couldn't have worked out better if it were actually planned.

These kinds of knee jerk reactions is exactly why "conspiracy theories" have exploded during the past decade and a half.

Wouldn't it be nice and pleasant for democracy if there were no longer demonstrations allowed ever in front of or near white house.

[FSogol]

49. ALCOA!

[2banon]

51. wtf?

[FSogol]

53. Alcoa is the fine maker of tin foil hats since 1888

[2banon]

60. knee jerk. read the post before responding is a good rule of thumb.

[justiceischeap]

59. Actually, I was just talking to my roommate about this

and it's the first thing he mentioned because it's really hard to get a permit for protests in the park in PA Ave (he has experience being a professional protester).

[2banon]

61. exactly. new policy because of this lame breach hurts us all.

[FSogol]

62. Wanna make sure your protest is seen and heard by exactly no one? Go protest outside the WH fence.

Creative and thought provoking protests make the news. Pounding a drum or chanting at the WH fence is a waste of time, regardless of the intentions. Sorry, but that's a fact. Last WH fence protest that made any type of national news? Daniel Cho protesting DADT 4 or 5 years ago.

[jeff47]

48. They didn't screw up.

Did the guy get over the fence? Yep.

Did the guy hurt anyone? Nope.

The guy ran across the grass and was promptly arrested when he stepped into the building. He did not appear to be carrying a weapon or a bomb, so he did not appear to be an immediate threat. So the Secret Service held their fire, exactly as any law enforcement officers should do.

Arresting him when he reached the guards in the building is exactly the right thing to do for a misdemeanor. Presumably the guards at the door had plenty of back-up if it turned out he was armed or otherwise more than they could handle.

The "they screwed up" crowd is the the same people desperately trying to make us terrified of everything. They should calm the fuck down, change their pants, and realize they need some psychological help for their massive cowardice.

[FSogol]

58. Amen. And if they shot his ass, the "they screwed up" crowd would be crying, "they screwed up."

[Nevernose]

64. If we discard the hyperbole

This is a guy who, essentially, ran across a lawn. An important person's lawn, granted, but to close off access and curtail freedoms because some nutcase violated the "don't walk on the grass" policy? Crazier than a guy on the White House lawn.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

52. TPTB are building up to something big. Big enough that the White House must be

isolated from the public, locked down even. The answer to what happened with the two fence jumpers is to institute a security zone around the White House that goes beyond already established boundaries.

[BlueJazz]

57. I'd just make it a lot harder to get in >

Make the fence taller plus much harder to climb/get over.
Crossed laser sensors
Motion sensors at fence, ground

...and other things I can't think of....

The way they want to change the whole setup is overkill.

[akbacchus_BC]

66. That guy did three terms in Iraq, he is pretty messed up!

Notwithstanding, even if the President was not there, security was lax!