OK, we started bombing a new country. Straight up or down: do you support it?

[Dreamer Tatum]

69 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes, I support bombing targets in Syria.
	14 (20%)
	No, I do not support bombing targets in Syria.
	55 (80%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. Couldn't you wait until all the facts were in....you decided in an hour with limited information?

had to start turning that tide of opinion quickly....I understand the need for speed....

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. Um...for what? To see what flavor the bombs are? To see if they're the new kind

that DON'T blow kids to smithereens?

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. Perhaps to see who is doing what?

[Dreamer Tatum]

9. Let me go back to DU in 2003 to see if anyone waited for "who was doing what." nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

15. in less than an hour?

[Dreamer Tatum]

17. Maybe you're right. Maybe we're dropping pillows and blankies on them. nt

[geek tragedy]

42. So you object to the US harming members of ISIL? nt

[Scootaloo]

56. When did we invent bombs that only hurt those we deem to be "bad guys"?

Seems like it would be a really newsworthy technological development.

[geek tragedy]

59. Same time we invented the "click your heels together three times and the

bad guys pick up flowers and instruments and sing love ballads" bomb.

[Scootaloo]

62. That doesn't even make any sense, geek.

Bombs are, by design, pretty indiscriminate killers. when you drop them on a city, say, Raqqa, there are no guarantees that they will only kill th "bad guys." In fact it's pretty unlikely that it'll turn out that way. Again, this is by design.

[geek tragedy]

64. that's the nature of any weapon.

there is a very good chance that ISIL fighters left alive and able to arm themselves will be much more indiscriminate in their killing.

[Erose999]

97. Why can't Iraq bomb them? Its their fucking country. They will have to have their training wheels

taken off at some point if they're ever going to be truly independent from the US.

[geek tragedy]

113. We bomb, they fight on the ground.

Makes sense.

[dixiegrrrrl]

130. We are bombing both ISIL AND a "new" Al-Quada "affiliated" group in Syria.

That was the happy headline that greeted me this am.

Just to be clear...here is the WH reasons for bombing ISIL in Syria:

Senior Obama administration officials: Airstrikes against the Islamic State in Syria are legal because they were done in defense of Iraq

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/syria/

and here is the WH reason for bombing another group in Syria:

The White House this morning is confirming that airstrikes against the al-Qaida-affiliated Khorasan Group in Syria were carried out due to its plotting of an 'imminent' attack against the US. This information was also confirmed earlier today by the US Central Command.

same source as above


[font style=color:#FF0000;]"Here's what I think the truth is: We are all addicts of fossil fuels in a state of denial, about to face cold turkey.
And like so many addicts about to face cold turkey, our leaders are now committing violent crimes to get what little is left of what we’re hooked on." [/font]
Kurt Vonnegut

[geek tragedy]

131. Your point being . . . ? nt

[morningfog]

10. The US is doing it, oh bright one.

[VanillaRhapsody]

14. And if Arab Nations feel threatened and THEY are bombing.....bright one?

[morningfog]

18. Then no need for us to be there, nor does it legalize our involvement.

[VanillaRhapsody]

20. Uh Bright one....we OWN Iraq because we broke it AND we do have American lives there....

the neighboring Arab states are representing themselves....

[morningfog]

22. This tired and tortured bullshit.

We don't own any country.

[VanillaRhapsody]

28. We broke it....its vulnerable to ISIL....we have to defend what little bullshit govt they have

at least its a new one....JEEBUS!

Picture this....those assholes at the Cliven Bundy Ranch? Remember them....now multiply them by the thousands....then give them a shitload of money and allow them to take over military grade weapons and the like that ISIL has......this is what we are dealing with....

[Union Scribe]

33. You keep saying "we"

but as far as I can tell you're not out there with your ass on the line. You're just cheering on other people risking theirs.

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. My father was career military....

and I have 2 Uncles that were in Viet Nam. I was an asthmatic child with a military health record....uneligible....

I am not cheering.....I didn't cheer Kosovo either....

But tell us what your alternative is?

[Erose999]

99. I am not part of this "we" that broke Iraq, is anyone else here? That shit is 100% not my fault.

Chimpy and Dickless Cheney are responsible for that. Maybe "we" should just drop them on ISIS.

[morningfog]

34. It's what we are dealing with by choice. We chose to join this bloody and long civil war.

Stupid decision. We'll pay for it for years to come in far too many ways.

[VanillaRhapsody]

54. Yes....WE did...

but that was then this is now....lets try to do nuance a bit better than Little George Fauntleroy did....I have said it before and I will say it again....do not underestimate Barack Obama. Wait and get all the details....he has been known to surprise has he not?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

47. No

You and I agree on many issues, but not here.

After losing 4,000 lives, and spending a trillion dollars,, we achieved stability -- albeit fragile stability, in Iraq. The US Military proposed leaving somewhere in the neighborhood of 8K troops there. The move was not wildly popular here, and (according to Leon Panetta last night on 60 Minutes) Nouri al-Maliki wanted no American troops to remain on his soil. Once we left, he removed Sunni military officials, and replaced them with Shiites, and generally engaged in bad behavior toward Sunnis in Iraq. IS came along, and seemed like salvation from Nouri al-Maliki; they won widespread popular support from Iraqis who were fed up.

We stopped owning Iraq the minute he told us to leave. We spilled a lot of blood and money to get them out from under Saddam Hussein. It's not our fault they did nothing with a golden opportunity. I have no desire to spill any more blood or money in a fight that is not ours. If a Middle Eastern nation or non-state movement comes out in favor of secular democracy; embraces a separation of church and state; embraces rights for women; and recognizes free speech, free media, and transparent government, then I'm willing to help. Until then, America should be done with this nonsense.

[cali]

91. we own Iraq? Just holy shit.

I'm immensely tired of that "we broke it, we own it" meme. First of all, all things broken cannot be repaired, and in fact when attempts are made at repair they can lead to even more damage- witness Iraq.

and the neighboring states are under U.S. direction. You don't really believe differently do you? You don't think the U.S. is going to let those countries take command and control of these missions?

Or maybe you do.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

108. Neocolonialism.

Believed in by both neoconservatives and neoliberals.

New isn't always better.

[VanillaRhapsody]

126. you can be tired all you want

Doesnt make it any less true...

[cali]

127. so try to learn to distinguish between fact and opinion, Vanilla.

[VanillaRhapsody]

128. that is what i was addressing

Your opinion

[grahamhgreen]

101. We are killing them.

[NYC_SKP]

4. Food Network doesn't take an hour. Come ON!

Of course, I kid.

Food Network actually deliberate for a while.

[morningfog]

8. What the fuck? What rock have you been under for the past month?

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. Uh you realize I got a hide for saying the EXACT phrase you just said....

[morningfog]

16. So alert?

I don't keep tabs on what you post or get hides on.

[cali]

90. what facts are you talking about?

we're either bombing in Syria or not, and clearly we are.

[Jim Lane]

124. We still don't have all the facts about our bombing of North Vietnam.

It's one thing to say that your opinion is subject to change if new facts develop or you learn things you didn't know earlier.

It's quite another thing to use incomplete data as an excuse for deference to whatever the leaders (of the government or of your political party) decide to do.

[Hippo_Tron]

2. Iraq maybe, Syria hell fucking no

In Iraq it's a mess we're somewhat responsible for and there is at least a side currently in power that we know is substantially better than ISIS.

In Syria there are no clearly identifiable "good guys" for us to go in there and try to help. Sadly the best thing we can do is let ISIS and Assad go at it and stay the fuck out.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. and if the other Arab nations are feeling like they need to kick some ISIL ass before they become

more of an embarrassment and even more threatening towards them......they have a right to defend themselves don't they?

[Hippo_Tron]

30. Yes and not just the Arab nations, Iran can fight them too if they want

ISIS in Syria is a mess that we didn't create, nor is it one that we can clean up. Syria, Iran, and anyone else that feels threatened by ISIS should by all means deal with the problem.

[VanillaRhapsody]

31. How do you know they are not yet?

and it appears that Arab nations ARE stepping up this time.....but they want us representing the mess in Iraq...that is why they are insisting on our participation....bet!

[Hippo_Tron]

36. I didn't say they aren't, I'm just saying we don't need to get in the middle of it

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. If the Arab nations insist because they don't want to appear to be taking responsibility for the

mess in Iraq. I can understand that....

[cali]

93. "kick some ISIL ass". that level of "thinking" is just sad.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

129. Right up there with "Kick Their Ass and Steal Their Gas" signs...

from pro-Iraq invasion protesters.

[creeksneakers2]

6. No sense letting them have all that sanctuary

If we are going to bomb them we have to do it everywhere.

[morningfog]

11. Fuck no.

[Dwayne Hicks]

13. I do support it

Left ignored whats to stop them from staging another 9/11 or worse? We ignored bin Laden and look what happened. Now it can be argued that going into Iraq at all caused ISIS and I would agree. But whats is done and we have to deal with the situation at hand. With that said I shake my head at Obama for making it known "no boots on the ground" because we all know they will be deployed at some point. What he should have said is something like "We have no plans at this time for boots on the ground but as we all know situations change". And for the record I think there should be 200k troops deployed or more. Limited strikes do not work if you are going to fight you fight. Do it right the first time. Like it or not that is the reality, you cannot win a military conflict with just air power we have proven that in the past.

[Caretha]

88. Here ya go

You do believe in putting your money where your mouth is right?

ENLISTMENT/REENLISTMENT DOCUMENT
ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES:

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd0004.pdf

[bobduca]

104. HERP to the mutha fucking derp

More Pragmatic Word Soup Please!

"We ignored bin Laden..." um ok

You want boots, boots on the ground! thats the only way our boys will be able to fix things, just like a good Daddy should, right?

[Feral Child]

119. Do you think Syria's allies

will be OK with this?

[whatchamacallit]

19. I'm sick

Sick of our never-ending ginned up wars, sick of the bullshit rationales, sick of the slaughter, and mostly sick of idiot Americans who support this shit.

[geek tragedy]

41. so anyone who disagrees with you on bombing ISIS is an idiot? Hmm. nt

[whatchamacallit]

45. Heard that one before

last time we bombed, and the time before that, and the time before that, and...

[geek tragedy]

46. so your position is that every time that US bombs anyone, it's an unqualified act of pure

evil that does no good.

E.g., Kosovo.

[whatchamacallit]

55. Most the time, yes.

It certainly does good ($$$) for some, but overall we visit more death and terror on the world than any other nation ever has. And the true believers are always along for the bloody ride.

[geek tragedy]

58. "more death and terror on the world than any other nation ever has"

Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, and Mao will all be relieved that they've been displaced by Uncle Sam as the most evil government ever.

Ditto King Leopold and Pol Pot.

[NCTraveler]

116. I am opposed to our current actions overseas.

That being said, it seems that you and history don't get along very well.

[whatchamacallit]

122. Yes, I admit it was way hyperbolic

Certainly there have been regimes that beat us in the shear number of killings in their respective conflicts. I'd venture if you added up all the causalities, military and civilian, of all the conflicts the US has been involved in since it's inception, we'd be up there with the best of them.

[LittleBlue]

21. Have our airstrikes ever improved the Middle East?

Our support for Islamist militants in Syria and our war in Iraq caused all of this. We caused it, and now we're trying to fix it with the same failed methods.

[MohRokTah]

39. Yes.

Air strikes during the Clinton administration contained Hussein and turned him into a paper tiger. We could have stepped in at any point during the early 21st century by backing another Baathist in a coup maneuver to take him out while maintaining the status quo.

Instead, the worst foreign policy mistake in US history occurred, but up until that point, bombing improved the conditions.

[LittleBlue]

63. You're reaching badly. What the hell did that achieve?

In the end, bombing achieved nothing. Maintaining the status quo got us to this point. Saddam survived and we took him down in a failed war based on lies, which created a power vacuum that got us to this point. Fail fail fail.

We broke it, and now we have to go to war every time a ragtag ethnic militia pops up because Iraq's government is too weak to defend themselves. A policy failure of epic magnitude.

[MohRokTah]

68. Maintaining the status quo was the best available option. Otherwise, you'd ahve what we have now.

By making Hussein nothing more than a paper tiger we set the stage to allow another Baathist to take out Hussein and form a government more amiable to the US.

But as I said, the worst foreign policy disaster in US history was implemented instead.

[LittleBlue]

70. Going back to my point, what has bombing every improved in the Mid East?

Your answer is maintaining the status quo in the Clinton era. How is maintaining the status quo solving or improving anything?

Thanks for proving my point.

[MohRokTah]

74. And bombing DID improve the situation.

IT kept making Hussein less and less of a power.

That improved the situation.

[LittleBlue]

75. Yeah sure

Thanks for the assistance in proving my point. Buh bye

[MohRokTah]

80. I proved my point. Bombing Iraq under Clinton improved the situation in the Middle East.

That's undeniable.

[Erose999]

100. Status quo is not an improvement. Has ANY US intervention is the Middle East ever improved anything?

I'm inclined to say NO.

[grahamhgreen]

110. Didn't our policies lead to 9-11, and the Middle East falling apart?

[Comrade Grumpy]

121. "We could have stepped in...in a coup maneuver..."

That kind of thinking is known as imperial hubris. Iraq is not our country.

[kelliekat44]

23. No. I do not support invading the sovereignty of any other nation that we are not at war with.

We are not at war with Syria. We were not at war with Iraq when we invaded. We claim sovereignty over air space over other countries setting up "no fly" zones at will. We bomb, blockade, boycott and ban and bamboozle at will. I don't support that imperial behavior by us or any other nation and it makes me sick. We are not a "Christian" nation. We do to others what we would not want them to do to us. It's disgusting. And I supported Obama because I thought he would be different. He dances to the same puppet masters. We dissed Saddam, and Gaddaffi so we didn't have to negotiate with them and we are doing the same with Assad yet we counted Musaharaff as a legitimate leader and the new Egyptian military master as legitimate even though they overthrew a legitimately elected government. We are not who we say we are. We are who PNAC says we are...make no mistake about it.

[Aerows]

29. PNAC has posted their agenda

for anyone and everyone to see. They get stalled here and there, but then some "horrible awful scary" thing happens to put the US right on track to fulfill that agenda.

I'm waiting for babies to be thrown out of incubators and weapons of mass destruction again. It's been a while since that excuse was used so rest assured, once ISIS is dealt with, Assad will personally be tossing said babies.

[Aerows]

24. Not just no

But hell no.

Anyone that thinks this will end with bombing ISIS is dreaming.

[geek tragedy]

25. Pass, because there is a lot going on that I do not know about.

There has been rather muted expressions of outrage--if any-- from the people one would expect to protest the loudest upon such events occurring. This indicates a possibility of some kind of nudge-nudge wink wink.

So, is this widening of the armed conflict reflective of wider political conflict, or wider political agreement, amongst states with a stake in the outcome?

Dunno.

[Union Scribe]

53. Lol.

I love it that you pretend to be neutral and dispassionate, then proceed to pound away at one side in the same thread. Why aren't you asking these pointed questions to the hawks around here?

[geek tragedy]

57. because most of the hair on fire rhetoric is coming from those opposed.

e.g. those calling this a 'crusade' and stating that everyone who disagrees with them is an 'idiot'

There are certainly good arguments to be made against this action--most specifically the question of which faction's agenda are we serving in Syria.

If Syria doesn't have a problem with the US and Jordan and other arab states bombing ISIS inside its territories, why are people here acting like it's a huge violation of Syria's sovereignty?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

26. Against

To be clear: I support our troops. I support our President, but I disagree with him on this issue.

I appreciated the King of Jordan's apprarance on 60 Minutes, in which he eloquently stated that all nations in the region must decide between good and evil; refused to even use IS and Islam in the same sentence; and generally seemed concerned with the massive influx of refugees Jordan has chosen to receive. I was not quite so appreciative of Leon Pannetta's "I told you so" attitude. I in no way appreciate having to choose among absolute monarchs, theocracies, and military dictatorships.

We cannot solve the Middle East. We spent a trillion and lost 4,000 lives in Iraq. Our best option is to wish them all the best of luck, and walk away. The next time we get a wild hair to spend $1T, let's spend it at home, and spend the rest on our neighbors in Central America and the Caribbean. Let's build clean, renewable energy, and stop depending on oil -- whether it is from Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Alberta, or Texas. It's not pie-in-the-sky. We've scratched the surface on wind; many more vehicles can be Hybridized; and solar panels can go on every roof, street lamp, traffic signal, or other surface. Dead rail lines can be reclaimed as bike lanes and allow suburbanites to bike to work -- helping the environment and the obesity problem. How many more office jobs can be moved to home-based offices, eliminating 60-80% of the need to commute?

Our enemies are dependence and greed.

[Peacetrain]

27. Waiting for details.. too many different stories

on the board right now..

[quadrature]

32. should FDR's dehousing-Germany strategy be copied in Syria?

homeless people can not produce war goods,
because they are trying to just survive.

[Cali_Democrat]

83. Actually the carpet bombing of Germany was the brainchild of the UK

Churchill and Arthur Harris.

[Nye Bevan]

35. I trust Obama to do the right thing.

He is smart, deliberate, and listens carefully to every point of view, even those who disagree with him, before taking this kind of action.

[woo me with science]

92. ...

http://m.

[MohRokTah]

37. It's the only available strategy.

They are bombing concentration locations for heavy weapons such as tanks, training camps and command and control sites.

It's a containment maneuver. It buys time.

[whatchamacallit]

40. Bullshit on tap

Amazing...

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. I have come up with an analogy....think of those guys at the Cliven Bundy Ranch

now give them the victories that ISIL have had...the power and wealth and military grade weapons they have acquired along the way now think of the incredible hubris, the stupidity and how drunk with power they would be ......THAT is what the equivalent those guys over there are....

[MohRokTah]

44. Well said.

[Union Scribe]

48. Aw, war buddies. nt

[MohRokTah]

50. .

[Erose999]

102. The key word is "over there". Its not our circus and those are not our monkeys. As for the Bundy

bastards.... I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

[VanillaRhapsody]

112. uh some of us went there and are now back..

So technically incorrect

[Erose999]

114. And now you want to go back for more? I don't think most who've been there would cosign that stateme

nt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

117. how do you consider it the same

You okay watching genocide?

[Erose999]

118. Personally, no. But if the administration were concerned about genocide, they'd have intervened in

the half dozen other crises in the world that could be considered genocide. There's all kinds of evil shit going on in Africa. And the treatment of Gaza by Israel is tantamount to genocide, and there was no rebuke from the Obama administration there either. Look at whats going on in Saudi Arabia... they behead people all the time. Terrible regieme as far as oppression and human rights are concerned. But they're our "allies" because they have oil, and they're "stable" so we can look the other way, right?

This is about oil and money.

[BlueJazz]

49. I'm usually not wishy-washy on these things but I'm not sure on this one.

I lean toward NOT bombing but I feel I don't (yet) know enough to make an informed vote.

[ecstatic]

51. No, because I can't imagine bombs raining down on me

"Do unto others..." etc.

[Mnemosyne]

60. [phone] nt

[misterhighwasted]

61. likewise, i can't imagine being beheaded on youtube.

and my country just saying "meh".
Its a clusterf**k.
I hold Bush 1 & 2 and dick cheney accountable for all of this.
No one else.

[ecstatic]

66. I agree with some of what you've said

Last edited Tue Sep 23, 2014, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes, this is Bushco's fault. Unfortunately, murders and executions are an everyday/every-second thing here, and it starts at the top. The executions of those journalists were vile and disgusting, but if innocent civilians are dying in this strike, then our actions are just as vile. I support President Obama but I cannot support this strike unless the military can guarantee 0 civilian casualties. Period. Sorry.

[misterhighwasted]

71. Agree sort of, also.

Obama warned them after the 1st beheading & taunting..
Moot point cuz I lay this all on the shoulders of Bush. Where it began.
All I can say about this horrific ordeal.

[MattBaggins]

69. I blame pretty much all Americans

We voted for the fuckers and cheered the war on from the get go. All those waving flags and Lee Greenwood blaring from every radio. We pretty much decided willingly to be the good germans.

[misterhighwasted]

72. No. Not all cheered. I recall the tens of thousands who protested.

Bush & Cheney in the highest office. Appointed not elected.

[MattBaggins]

79. I said almost all

but the OVERWHELMING majority cheered and foamed at the mouth to go "kill them A-Rabs". I blame them for being so fucktasticly stupid.

[misterhighwasted]

82. yes. I hear ya and you are right. So many fools.

Good night to you.
Wish we could wake up to a better world.
Someday maybe.

[Erose999]

109. I'm sure you'd be just as dead as if they'd shot you. The beheadings are just theatre for shock

value. It's ISIS goal to draw us in. Theres a lot of political power and funding on their side too and drawing the US into a war increases that power.

[Hosnon]

65. Yes as of right now based on the Arab coalition. nt.

[misterhighwasted]

76. ?? paid shills?? I was kinda thinking the same thing

In an opposing way tho.
The Foley & Sotlof family may be thinking otherwise.
The whole thing is an effed up deal. Horrific.
I hate this.
Adios for the night.

[woo me with science]

96. We live in a propaganda state.

[bobduca]

106. I'm guessing a paid shill alerted it.

This was hidden because reasons.

"DU has spoken. All the paid shills infesting this site.

apparently can't deprive our brains of oxygen sufficiently to make this fucktastrophy look good. "

[woo me with science]

111. Well, the personas now are of sufficient numbers

that perhaps this isn't even relevant:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12596565

[grahamhgreen]

73. How will we pay for it???

[LittleBlue]

77. Only 2 ways to go here

1) Cutting services to the poor
2) Put the nation further in debt

[grahamhgreen]

78. Special tax on those that can afford it, too much to ask?

[grasswire]

84. at the very least, we could heavily tax profiteering from war.

Couldn't we?

[Erose999]

115. Indeed. People fret about conditions in Syria as their neighbors are starving and homeless.

[unblock]

81. when you get a some shit on you,

if you try to scrape it off you just end up smearing the shit all over yourself.

sometimes it's best to just wait for it to dry and flick it off.


a (very weird) high school teacher told me that once, lol.

anyway, i think this little bit of bombing is just smearing the shit around.
i think we should have just waited, and cleaned up the mess when it becomes less murky if that makes sense at that time.

and that's granting that messing about militarily in the middle east makes any sense at all.

[Aerows]

123. "The more you stir in a pile of shit

the worse it stinks."

[Douglas Carpenter]

85. I am firmly conflicted

OBVIOUSLY - we should never have invaded Iraq in the first place. OBVIOUSLY - we should have never attempted to destabilize Syria in the first place. OBVIOUSLY - we should have been following a wiser and more prudent policy in regards to Israel and Palestine in the first place. OBVIOUSLY - we should have avoided an endlessly antagonistic relationship with Iran even when they were attempting a more moderate course and we should have pursued a whole different approach to Iran in the first place.

OBVIOUSLY THESE AND OTHER ISSUES AND A GROSSELY MISGUIDED POLICY CREATED THE POWER VACUME AND INCUBATED SENTEMENT THAT MADE ISIS POSSIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

But, now that we are there and an utterly misguided policy set the stage for ISIS - what do we do? - let them take over Iraqi Kurdistan? Let them establish a menacing regime across Iraq and Syria? I don't know how this going to work out. But I don't know what else we can do now that we have already fucked everything up.

[countryjake]

86. ...

[Threedifferentones]

87. I'm ambivilent, but the question is not quite accurate.

We did not start bombing Syria, the country you are referring to. We started bombing the IS in Syria, and there is a difference.

[cali]

94. We bombed Raqqa and Aleppo. Most of the population in both cities is civilian

civilians get killed when you bomb densely populated urban areas. Always.

[KG]

89. bad idea, won't work

[Orsino]

95. I would probably not "support" bombing anyone.

My objections would be fewer if this were at least a UN op. Or even a war declared by Congress.

I would have to think to decide what "support" even means in this context.

[bigwillq]

98. I do not support it (nt)

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

103. Choice of devils.

ISIS fights Assad. By killing ISIS in Syria, you enable Assad to kill more Syrians in his own ongoing slaughter.

No winners there.

[treestar]

105. I wish there were a better way

to deal with things like this.

Anyone who gets into power in this country seems to believe we have to keep the Middle East stable, probably to protect Israel. It could be the oil, but then we can get oil in other places and use other types of energy. They seem to believe our security requires Israel to be there and be protected.

[hedgehog]

107. I don't know - and I hope this doesn't mean that I 'm a Monday morning quarterback

waiting to see how things turn out. I just don't know enough to have a solid opinion one way or another. How dangerous is Isis? Who says? How effective is the bombing? Are people on the ground better off or worse off because of the bombing? Have we exhausted other alternatives (and/or are we continuing to pursue them) such as putting pressure on the Saudis to ensure the money tap is cut off?

[Feral Child]

120. Against.

The Dominionists have been seeking to provoke Iran for a very long time. Attacks on Syria just might do it, Iran has a mutual defense pact with Syria. As does China.

The only reason I think China might try to calm Iran is loss of their most valuable market. Then again, they might just be ready to turn the US into a vassal state.

[Initech]

125. Not just no, a big hell fucking no!!!

[cwydro]

132. No no no.

This is awful.

We're going to pay for this.