General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDOJ preparing criminal charges against Wall Street executives
The Justice Department has launched criminal fraud investigations of individuals at Wall Street firms, with the hopes of filing formal charges in the coming months, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said Wednesday.
“We are making good progress in these cases, which involve conduct that has undermined the integrity of our markets,” Holder said at New York University Law School.
The nation’s top prosecutor did not go into detail about the inquiries, but people familiar with the cases say the probes involve the possible manipulation of the $5.3 trillion global foreign-exchange markets.
At least seven banks, including JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup and Barclays, disclosed in regulatory filings last year that “various government authorities” had requested information about their trading activities. Bank employees have turned over information to U.S. authorities about the trading scheme, according to people who were not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigations.
the rest: http://www.pdacommunity.org/component/content/article/90-ecr-articles/3803-doj-preparing-criminal-charges-against-wall-street-executives
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)We're going to spend $Zillions in order to impose some pocket change fines!
It's about damn time!!!
madokie
(51,076 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)I have followed the financial sector since before the '08 crash. I talked my dad, my DAD for God's sake, into selling his assets in Texas in order to avoid losing its value BEFORE the mortgage scam crashed the economy and rolled in the Great Recession, which was actually the Greater Depression. He thanked me for being so insistent and persistent. I watched the whole damn thing, every single fucking day for two year PRIOR to the crash and for years afterward!
So don't fucking tell me the point is wasted on me just because I'm cynical about the punishment those goddamned Banksters will get, instead of the prison cells they should be given.
ETA: Also, I'm really sick of people who think they know everything based on their misunderstanding of someone or because they simply do not like someone.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)For a small group here nothing that the president does is "ever' going to change their constant complaining and bashing, it's just the way they are. What their agenda really is is beyond me, but they are consistent in bashing him daily no matter what he does or doesn't do.
Just for the record I don't have a problem with those who disagree with things the president does, heck I disagree on a lot of things, but for those who "NEVER" seem to post anything positive, the ones who say he has done "nothing", or who compare him to republicans nothing will change they live to bash is guess.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)he's done some things that have disappointed me. But I am not one of those who is constantly bashing him. I ALWAYS refer to him as PRESIDENT Obama. I don't call him Obama, ever.
I have an enormous amount of respect for President Obama and have been a supporter since his first appearance on the scene. For the first time in my life, I was a part of a crowd of over 2 million people who froze our asses off to join President-elect Obama on his first inauguration ceremony, my first time to ever make the trek to DC to see a president sworn in. I was there because I knew it was a history-making moment. I was never more proud of myself or my fellow Americans.
While I am grateful that DOJ is building a case, it's not at all unreasonable for me to expect nothing more punitive from an eventually conviction than a paltry fine, if not a full aquital. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I was not trying to single anyone out, just express my feeling towards those that do nothing but bash the president. I don't know what will happen with this case, but I will wait till the end to see just how it turns out. It's easy for a lot of people here to run around with their hair on fire thinking only the negative instead if actually waiting to find out just how thing happen. Those were the ones I was addressing since they do tend to have a problem with the president, at least from the way they post negative things all the time, that's how it looks.
calimary
(81,238 posts)My son was there, too, freezing his ass off but still thrilled to be there anyway, knowing he too was witnessing an incredibly amazing, historic moment for our nation.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)is that some traders, maybe a supervisor or 2, will get thrown to the wolves, some monetary fine will be announced, altho the outcome of that will never be published.
Meanwhile, Jamie Dimon and his peers will proceed as before, thinking up new ways to take profits form the populace.
madokie
(51,076 posts)every once in a while someone will post a poll of du'rs of yes or no concerning something obama and you can see by who cast votes where who they are that are here to bash. Plain as the nose of their faces but some aren't aware of those either I guess
I didn't vote for Obama because I felt he was going to do everything I wanted, I voted for him because I felt he would move us forward, guess what he is doing just that in spite of the naysayers and obstructionist. I'm happy, I stand with him.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I too voted because I believed he would move us forward, not take us backwards. I also think he is doing as good a job as can be expected with republicans in charge of the House, and doing their best to stop any kind of progress that he wants to make. What many here seem to forget is that he needs congress to get things done. Without their help he can only do so much. Unless we get rid of the republicans and replace them with democrats, things won't change. Some here seem to think that everything that happens or doesn't happen is his fault, and those are the ones I question.
We can change things, but the rights use of "doom and gloom" scare tactics isn't helping, especially when those claiming to be democrats bash him all day long, and try and get others to do the same. Seems like even more of the "bashers" have showed up lately, but it is an election year so that is to be expected. We need to get the voters out, if we can do that we win.
calimary
(81,238 posts)
Stellar
(5,644 posts)I totally agree! Especially when it seems most of what he does is done without the congress.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)
malthaussen
(17,193 posts)"Criminal" = sending people to the white-collar equivalent of jail. Civil charges are where the token fines come into play.
-- Mal
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)with nothing more than sofa-cushion fines.
malthaussen
(17,193 posts)But in fairness, the implication is that they have spent some time working up a criminal case or two, although what they're going to do about the statute of limitations remains to be seen. It's just that too much too late to nail the real perps, even if that was the desire.
Since Mr Holder's department has specified "criminal" charges in the PR release, I'm going to be curious as to what form the wrist-slapping will take. My guess: they'll find some foreign (probably Indian) mid-upper level scapegoats to do a little time.
-- Mal
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)That doesn't necessarily sound to me like it has anything to do with the crash caused by the credit default swap folks, or years spent working on those. That sounds like something new that they only recently became aware of, although action against financial predators is a welcome change of pace.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)time before the crash. Maybe new as a continuation of those practices after the crash because, as mentioned above, the stuff before the crash may be subject to statute of limitations factors.
Regardless, I agree. Any action against the Banksters is welcome.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)the money of the 1%ers themselves, not just the losses to the rest of America.
Kensan
(180 posts)I think this would be where they will find criminal collusion amongst several banks when setting the LIBOR rate. Don't think the DOJ has the heart or will to ever deal with the CDS swaps and mortgage underwriting matters that caused the economic meldown in 2008.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)until statutes of limitations expired.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)time and again. The SoL on any number of these crimes is up to 10 years.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Repeating that over and over again does not change the fact that the DOJ dragged its feet for SIX YEARS and let criminals get away.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)There is a difference between "foot dragging" and case building ... where are the criminals going?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)For six years?
That's hilarious.
We'll see *who* actually goes. This should be interesting.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)that fly in the face of six years of consistently corporate-defensive and corporate-enabling behavior.
You've got a hard sell here, particularly in year six of a relentlessly corporate and predatory policy agenda of this presidency.
IMO you're making it sound as good as you possibly can, but the problem with the talking points is that you don't have a memory hole. I have no doubt that the administration knows "what and how the Bankers did what they did." We differ in whether we believe the administration's goal here is to seek justice for Americans or get some PR while protecting the bankers. I think the overall record of the administration provides much more evidence for the latter than the former. .
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that could possibly reflect favorably on this administration.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)You talk about me.
See the problem?
malthaussen
(17,193 posts)Tying in, possibly, with some of the exposes in Britain within the past couple of years. Those were civil actions, too, IIRC. The really "new" part is the utterance of the word "criminal," which may just be a sop to the Honorable Mrs Warren.
-- Mal
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)malthaussen
(17,193 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)And on any number of them, the SOL was five years.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)that specifically spell out the "any number" (ETA: that I, also, responded directly to you), in favor of snark.
Though ... I though I wouldn't have had to be more specific to you; since we have had this same discussion the last time you trotted out this errant argument.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)the SOL's that expired after five years?
And why does the administration talk about doing this every two years, but we are now in the sixth year of the presidency and the SECOND TERM, and we STILL hear they are on the verge of doing it...again during an election year?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)except there is a reason why certain crimes have longer SoLs.
zappaman
(20,606 posts) 
Faux pas
(14,672 posts)
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Wellstone ruled
(34,661 posts)Frank Luntz's lobbing group? In coming months. What year? Same garbage from this guy. Never a finite time or place. Realizing Mr. Holder is on his legacy tour,must be interviewing via media for his old job at Covey-Burley. BTW,most of Wall Streets Legal comes from Covey-Burley,talk about conflict.
LawDeeDah
(1,596 posts)and hopefully the crowd that swears on a stack of pringles that Obama is a 1%er sympathizer protecting the Wall Streeters will realize their silliness, but never confess to it of course.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Every day he's been in office and not gone after the big banks and real Wall Street reform has backed those 'silly' critics' view.
You anxiously swallow an election year news blurb halfway through Obama's second term, and it's the critics who are silly?
LawDeeDah
(1,596 posts)I don't think that he should make public the steps and progress, but you can disagree. I think these things are very complicated and can't be done as quick as warming up a pizza as some would like to be as simple.
I think just like getting Bin Laden, that took years of planning meanwhile in the foreground people were whining about nothing being done about BL... well, same sort of picture here.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)Your contention is that the Obama Administration has spent the last six years building a case? Of course these things take time, but... six years?
Call me a cynic, but I've come to believe two things about President Obama over the last six years. First, he's a master political campaigner. Second, he's very Wall Street-friendly.
Those two points make me less inclined to interpret this as you have. But that's fine-- I sincerely hope you're correct and I am completely wrong.
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)...I'll believe it when I see it. And if we do see it how high up the totem pole are those charged; and secondly will any real jail time ensue? Fining Chase or any of the others 25 million is like fining most people $10.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,703 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)The scale of the big banks' fraud in recent years has been breathtaking, and as has been repeatedly detailed by investigative journalists like Matt Taibbi, wholly institutionalized.
This news certainly sounds positive, but considering corporate-friendly track record of the source, and the fact that it's an election year, I think I'll wait and see before I clap.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)I'll wait to see the execution to have an actual opinion.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)will simply agree to walk away from the industry, keeping their ill-gotten gains, various homes, offshore bank accounts, and the banks will pay nuisance fines, and that will be that. See the 80's junk bond scandals.
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)Does the department not have enough to do with problems of voter suppression 6 weeks before the elections?
ColesCountyDem
(6,943 posts)
ReRe
(10,597 posts)... we all need to remember and not get our hopes up that someone is going to go to jail. Justice for the 1% is different from the justice applied to the 99%. They get a nice fine, we jail time. That's what's fucked up about this country. They say Corporations are people too, but they sure don't have to go to jail like real people do, do they?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)That's called active protection.
We hear empty promises to hold these criminals accountable just about every two years in this administration...just in time for each election season. After nearly six years and well into this president's *second* term, you will have to pardon the country for considering them lies.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)(1) section 215, 656, 657, 1005, 1006, 1007, 1014, 1033, or 1344;
(2) section 1341 or 1343, if the offense affects a financial institution; or
(3) section 1963, to the extent that the racketeering activity involves a violation of section 1344;
unless the indictment is returned or the information is filed within 10 years after the commission of the offense.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3293
Particularly
18 U.S. Code § 1341 - Frauds and swindles; and, 18 U.S. Code § 1343 - Fraud by wire, radio, or television; and, the conspiracy portions of the 18 U.S.C.
But I guess it's simpler to scour the internet to find an article.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)You are arguing a strawman. Nobody is arguing that it's impossible to bring ANY case now. I am reminding you of the administration's long track record of corporate enabling and protection of banks, including dragging its feet until many SOL's *did* expire, and trotting out these promises election year after election year, to the point that we are midway through the second term of this presidency with still nothing significant to show for them.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)you have specifically and repeatedly, incorrectly, stated that the SoL to bring an action has passed. My citing to the statute that indicates different, is most certainly, NOT a strawman argument.
What you are doing is the regular moving of the goal-post ... "DoJ can't do it. It's too late" ... "What they can?" ... "Well, they won't!" And you even slip in the, "Even if they do ... It won't be who I want prosecuted!"
I realize, this is your singular most important issue/complaint ... but the DoJ does have an obligation to ensure that when they go to court, they have a case they can win ... no matter how long it takes. You've heard the quote about "the wheels of justice ..." No?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Do you really think that people can't read what we both just wrote? (That was a rhetorical question, so you don't need to answer.)
You are now misrepresenting our conversation, as the two posts I referred to *and* your responses to them clearly show.
I'm out now. I'll let that last post of yours and the posts above speak for themselves.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Last edited Tue Sep 23, 2014, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)
and I really wish they would speak up because one of us is completely off-base with respect to this back and forth. If it's me, then cool; but I don't believe I have mis-characterized the conversation. I'll await the comments of others.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Good one, in time for the election! Just-Us! Banksters are so scared.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Hope they call up Dr. William K. Black to help prosecute the sons of bitches. He worked for the US government prosecuting thousands of criminals during the Savings & Loan crisis during the Reagan-Bush I mis-administrations. Another is Joseph Stiglitz, who warned us about Larry Summers and government by Goldman Sachs. Those two really would help speed prosecutions of banksters. Hope Mr. Holder and the DoJ interview those two, at the least.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)he is from a different era. The prosecutions he got were BECAUSE the crimes were committed BEFORE the DoJ was de-nuded of investigators ... and BEFORE the laws were changed; so it really pains me to see him doing his "Well, back in my day ..." thing.
And, while I love Dr. Stiglitz's economics, he is an economist, not an attorney. The DoJ knows what and how the Bankers did what they did, (and don't particularly care as to the magnitude of the acts, as it has no bearing on whether a crime was committed or not) the difficulty/delay was figuring out how to tie the fraud high enough up in the organizations as to make an impact (lest we hear calls of little fish ... when the fact is, corporations are deliberately set up to protect the Big fish).
Octafish
(55,745 posts)As for Dr. Stiglitz, he's a Nobel Prize winning economist who happens to be a material witness to fraud.
The problem isn't them. The problem comes in getting the Department of Justice to listen to them and follow-up on what they know.
ETA: This is Year 8 of the Problem regarding the Wall Street Bailout, Year 32 of the Reaganomics Problem.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)"Dr. Black isn't from another era", I was referencing his prosecutorial position/experience ... and being a "material witness to fraud" is not being a prosecutor of fraud.
I have no doubt the DoJ has a firm grasp on Dr. Black and Dr. Stiglitz's positions/theories and have been building their prosecutorial case around them.
While I agree with reaganomics bein the Problem, I differ with respect to the "Wall Street Bailout" being a problem ... granted, I would have liked to see far more controls in place ... and if I had been Bail-out God, I would have included as a term that any bail-out would be conditioned on a wholesale executive leadership house cleaning ... but that is a separate issue from the bail-out that kept the banking system functioning.
littlemissmartypants
(22,655 posts)Eat them like candy and collards.
Boiling in oil.
:lickslips: smilie
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)So wish this will take them down. What is a bit different is the name of the banks, not just 2 or 3 people. Really don't want my hopes go down the drain as usual. So many years, so much suffering by "we the people" it CAN'T go on forever! A country can not go on this way and expect to call ourselves a Democracy! An Oligarchy at best, and at worst... well the thought is much to terrifying!
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)mean so very little.
I'm sorry. All I see is a very expensive investigation, very telling results, and actionable information that will go absolutely nowhere.
No one will be arrested. I'm sorry. But this crap goes on all the time. I guarantee you that the guilty will spend no time in jail, their bank will pay a fine smaller than the cost of the investigation, and go home with a bonus larger than what I will earn in my lifetime.
