Enlightened self interest versus rational selfishness (Ayn Rand)

[Cary]

I want to have a peaceful discussion of these two concepts, among friends. Elsewhere I have been baited. I'm not going to be baited here and I respectfully request that anyone who wishes to attack me, or anyone else, in a personal way to please exercise some self control and take it somewhere else. I want to have a mature discussion without changing the subject. I can do nothing to enforce that except to promise you that I will maintain my own discipline and ignore anyone who wishes to change the subject to some nonsense about what they want me to think about myself.

From Wikipedia:
Enlightened self-interest is a philosophy in ethics which states that persons who act to further the interests of others (or the interests of the group or groups to which they belong), ultimately serve their own self-interest.

Enlightened Self Interest:

Enlightened self-interest is a philosophy in ethics which states that persons who act to further the interests of others (or the interests of the group or groups to which they belong), ultimately serve their own self-interest.


Rational selfishness:

Rational selfishness is a term generally related to Ayn Rand's Objectivist philosophy, and refers to a person's efforts to look after their own well-being, to cultivate the self and achieve goals for the good of the self. The focus in rational selfishness might be considered to be more self-directed (where the benefit to the group or society is a possible by-product) than the focus of enlightened self-interest which is more group-directed (and the benefit to oneself might be more of the by-product).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightened_self-interest

And for those who have expressed such horrible distress when I have cited Wikipedia, get over yourself. Wikipedia is a fine source for this purpose. This is not a dissertation or a formal discussion of any source. This is a friendly discussion amongst friends. I have absolutely nothing to prove to anyone here and any distress over anything here is pure stupidity and I will have no part of it. If you wish to judge me, or anyone else, that's your problem not mine. Go off into your own corner and cry by yourself.

Just sayin.

[marions ghost]

1. What is your point?

---

[Cary]

5. Several points

But mostly I want to trash Ayn Rand without some mopes coming along and spitting at me for it.

[JaneyVee]

2. What exactly are we debating here?

Wiki seems to have clarified the differences.

[safeinOhio]

3. My guess

Rand Paul is an idiot.

[Cary]

4. Yes. n/t

[Cary]

6. Discussion, not debate.

"Conservatives" often conflate the two. I want to point out the distinction and, as always, argue that "conservatives" suck. They do suck.

[cyberswede]

7. Based on those descriptions, it seems obvious that enlightened self-interest is preferable.

And fuck Ayn Rand.

[samsingh]

8. she was on welfare for years

[ZombieHorde]

9. Ethics doesn't need to be this complicated.

Just ask yourself how you treat others and how do others treat you.

[safeinOhio]

10. To make it very simple

Be Nice.

[ZombieHorde]

11. Or at least:

don't be an asshole.

It's not that complicated.

[safeinOhio]

13. It is very simple, but

not always easy.

[Cary]

12. But people are seduced by rational selfishness

"Greed is good" is a lazy person's philosophical underpinning, or an oligarch's. It is essentially saying the old "This is not the Droid you're looking for, move along." No need to worry about civil rights, climate change, concentration of wealth, minimum wage, health care, dangerous products, the environment, or anything intellectual that we all care about. Nope, the Koch brothers will take care of everything for you.

[safeinOhio]

14. They boil it down to

the market place is God. It will solve everything, be fair and just. It is not and doesn't.

[Cary]

15. True

But it is also a punt. This leap of faith is easy. Reason requires skill and effort.

Oddly Rand despised religion for this very reason. Oddly her "objectivism" turns out to be a cult and no different from the religions she so despised. Actually, worse since she glorifies the worst traits of humanity and trashes the best. Her ideal person is a sociopath.