ISIS -approx 10-20k barely trained lightly armed. Iraqi Army approx 250k

[KG]

supposedly well trained well equipped by the US.

what am i missing here?

even if it were only 100k, shouldn't the iraqi army be kicking dash ass?

maybe nobody wants to talk about the massive waste of money and complete failure of the u.s. in this regard

[hobbit709]

1. Motivation.

[J_J_]

2. perhaps the corporate media that has been lying about everything

is also lying about what is going on right now with ISIS/dash?

The whole ISIS name was created to appeal to Americans.

Why are they trying to sell us a war?

[KG]

3. oh, we're being sold a war. damn straight.

[Chathamization]

4. The Kurdish military is another couple hundred thousand as well. The media narrative is missing a

number of facts. Much of the current violence in Iraq is part of a widespread revolt in Sunni Arab regions against the sectarian government in Baghdad. ISIS is one militant group amongst many involved (and I imagine a number of people calling themselves ISIS now are semi-independent militant groups that have been in the area for sometime and join up with various factions when it suits them). The violence has been most located in Sunni Arab regions where at least some of the public would be sympathetic to fighters representing "their side" in the sectarian struggle. They haven't overrun large Shiite or Kurdish cities (though a few small border towns were taken over). The idea that either Baghdad or Irbil was about to fall doesn't seem based in much reality.

[think]

5. Supposedly America already spent $20 billion training and equipping these Iraqi security forces

The Fall of Mosul
By Joshua Keating

During the reconstruction of Iraq, the United States spent about $20.2 billion to train and equip Iraqi security forces, about a third of the total funds spent on reconstruction.Today, those same security forces lost control of Iraq’s second-largest city, Mosul....

~Snip~
Read more:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/06/10/the_fall_of_mosul_the_u_s_spent_20_billion_on_iraqi_security_forces_who.html

[Autumn]

6. Think we can get a refund?

[think]

8. I wish! Unfortunately it appears we plan to double down... /nt

[Autumn]

10. Well there's plenty of programs we can cut to piss away another 20 billion.

But what the hell, maybe 40 million and another 6,802 military souls lost will do the trick. This time.

[leftstreet]

18. This whole 'Medicare' thing makes seniors lazy

No reason they can't be patriotic and stay in the workforce til they drop!




Just in case, since DU's attracting a lot of warmongers lately:

[jwirr]

26. Hell better yet why not just ask us the enlist. We would have a premanent job.

[linuxman]

7. Well...

For starters, Isis and the Iraqi army aren't lining up on opposite sides of a golf course and taking turns shooting volleys at each other.

Isis is a smaller force, but it is operating unconventionally.

Besides that, groups like Isis tend to rely more on individual self sufficiency ( in other words, the man who shoots the pkm at the Iraqi army is also the mechanic and the man in charge of foraging for food and supplies within his small group.) the numbers listed for the Iraqi army do not indicate actual combat strength, but rather the number of combat troops along with support personnel.

Arguing that the Iraqi army should be kicking their asses based on a numbers breakdown is silly and simplistic in the extreme.

[99Forever]

9. Ummmm.... I know. I know.

REASONS!!!1! 1! 1!!!!

[randome]

11. If they're that easy to corral, then one U.S. jet should be enough, right?

But they're not. They know how to scurry like the murderous cowards they are.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Dreamer Tatum]

12. Then you haven't been paying attention.

ISIS came calling, and the Iraqi army dropped weapons and fled.

They have no will to fight. This is not news.

[think]

13. Yep. The army we already paid $20 billion to arm and train dropped their weapons and ran

Great investment. We should do it again....

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. I didn't claim it was a good investment.

I'm simply restating what is said to have happened.

[think]

19. Sorry. Was venting and was more of a general statement rather than a direct response.

Just frustrating to think about....

[leftstreet]

15. Iraq also has 500k+ reserves

What are they doing?

[randome]

20. They're trying to figure out Twitter.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[AnalystInParadise]

28. 85% Shia

mostly refusing to fight hard to liberate Sunni areas. ISIS controls Sunni areas, the Shia have no stake in fighting to liberate the Sunnis.

[LanternWaste]

16. An army on its own, no matter how devastating, will not win battles. It stands or falls with its com

Finland held off a much larger Soviet invasion (19 Soviet division versus eight Finnish) for almost six months. Henry V defeated the French forces (close to 30,000 total ) with only 6,000. Hannibal defeated the Romans at Cannae. During the Battle of The Battle of Longewala, Indian Major Chandpuri and the 47 mend under his command held off a force of 3,000 Pakistanis in 1971.

An army on its own, no matter how devastating, will not win battles. It stands or falls with its commander. It would be comprehensive to look at the leaders of both sides, their experience, motivations, drive, etc.

[LittleBlue]

17. "In war, numbers alone confer no advantage. Do not advance relying on sheer military power."

-Sun Tzu


Men who lay down their arms and run are useless against a determined enemy, no matter how much they outnumber their enemy. The Iraqi army has proven to be complete shit.

[AnalystInParadise]

21. Actually ISIS has 30,000 fighters

And I think that number is low. Add in the Khorsan fighters, the AQI fighters, the allied Sunni militia fighters and other groups and ISIS can field close to 80-90K fighters. The problem with the Iraqi Army is that it is largely Shia, who will not fight to liberate Sunnia areas. (The areas ISIS controls).

Additionally ISIS now has a few dozen American Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles and if RUMINT is to be believed a few dozen Americans of prior military service who are maintaining them and training ISIS how to use them in battle.

In many battles ISIS is better equipped and organized than the Iraqi forces, many members of ISIS have experience against U.S. forces and have learned much from us. The Iraqi Army is largely a constabulary force that is great at holding checkpoints, but terrible at moving under fire and conducting Combined Arms operations. ISIS seems to have members within its ranks that know how to do that. (Again, I credit that to the American and Euros in their ranks, a sizeable minority of which have prior military service in those nations military's)

As for the Kurds, you are only as good as your competition, they largely fought the old Iraqi Army which again was great at killing civilians, but shitty at fighting actual soldiers with esprit de corps, proper conventional warfare training, and motivation. The Kurds held off the Iraqis because the Iraqis are god awful soldiers, not because the Kurds are ultimate warriors. ISIS on the other hand is a proto-Army modeled on Western military's in battlefield flexibility, certain tactics, and motivation.


http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/11/world/meast/isis-syria-iraq/

[CJCRANE]

24. You make some good points

but other sources say that the military leadership is composed of Saddam's former generals and that the foreigners are mostly grunts.

Of course it's hard to tell what the truth is definitively and I'm not sure we'll find out.

[leftstreet]

25. Sounds like a weapons embargo might have been in order

Oh that's right... the US tabled that at the UN

[KoKo]

27. Interesting but comes from from CIA to CNN....(a reliable mouthpiece for MIC)

Not a good track record there on either side, unfortunately. Hard numbers are probably not easy to come by and differ according to source.

[moondust]

22. "I was only there for the paycheck,"

chuckled the private as he shed his weapon and uniform and fled, "not to throw my life away for some neofeudal oligarchy set up by American neocons."

[cali]

23. You have just about everything wrong.

We don't know how many there are: Estimates range from 30,000 to 80,000+

They are NOT lightly armed. They have captured a lot of American arms, including tanks and anti-aircraft missiles and Syrian arms.

They are not untrained. Quite a few were in Saddam's armed forces.

[Bigmack]

29. Want to buy some Iraqi rifles...?

Never been fired, and only dropped once.