I'm curious...who here thinks they or anyone else, could have accomplished more than PBO

[Old and In the Way]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by cbayer (a host of the General Discussion forum).

In the last 6 years, given the political reality of a hostile Congress and SCOTUS? Seriously, please weigh in and tell us how you could have done a better job...assuming you could have gotten yourself elected...which is a pitiful point because no one who posts here would ever have the intestinal fortitude to even attempt such a task. But tell me why you could have done more than PBO has done. Easy to tear done, harder to give a hypothetical bette rcase for why you (or your hypothetical better option) could have accomplished more.

Love to hear from Manny, Will, Cali, Koko and the other great progressive, influential minds on DU...


Hope this doesn't get hidden, but I'm asking these important and consistantly great critics of Obama to weigh in...no call outs because they are the amongst the very smartest people who post here. Surely, they have better solutions that the rest of us should have listened to..

I admit to being a Democratic homer...I will take a bad Democrat over a good Republican/Independent every time. Why? It ought to be obvious in this binary political world we live in. But maybe we haven't suffered enough, yet.

[rug]

1. Hillary. She had no illusions about a hostile Congress.

[Old and In the Way]

6. PBO was/is more of an optimist, but

I seriously doubt Hillary would have accomplished any more than Barack has. Mitch would have proclaimed her a 1 term Presidemt the week she was inaugurated. Hillary might have projected a more bellicose foreign policy, but I doubt the progressive anti-Democrat braintrust here would supported her, either.

[rug]

8. Frankly, there is very little policy difference between them.

But, she had 15 years' experience dealing with their bullshit. I think her inside game would have been a lot dirtier and a lot more effective.

Who knows? It's all idle speculation at this point.

[Wella]

16. Agree with you about her inside game.

She was also someone who had already been through the Fox wringer and pretty much every rotten thing that could have been said had been said. She'd have been less vulnerable.

[laundry_queen]

24. I agree with both of you

I was against her in '08 for all the same reasons I don't want her running in '16 HOWEVER in retrospect, I think she'd have gotten more done than Obama. I think she'd have taken less crap. I somewhat fell for Obama's progressive promises and tone, even though I was guarded because I remembered the talk on DU after the '04 election when everyone thought he'd come in and shake up the Senate and then....nothing. I knew there was a chance he was all talk...and sadly that's what happened.

[Wella]

29. It's hard to tell when PR techniques sell your President to you

There was a reason that the 2008 Obama campaign was Advertising Age's "Marketer of the Year." We need to be more aware of how these techniques work and go more with our gut--or our cynicism, perhaps.

[No Vested Interest]

34. Wouldn't Mitch McConnell hve said of Hillary "We must work every day to

insure that this President (Hillary Clinton) will not have a second term."

The Republicans would have verbally brutalized her every day, personally and politically.
She would not have had any more success in getting bipartisanship than has Pres. Obama.

Can you even begin to think of how Rush Limbaugh would have vilified her daily?

[DonCoquixote]

54. no she did not

Which is why she would have worked WITH them, especially with what would have been a full blown with in Syria, which could easily become a war with Russia.

[Cha]

67. Too bad she didn't know the ground rules to play by in the primaries..

too bad she hired that idiot Mark Penn to manage her disastrous campaign.. and who's running her show now?.. he/she's not any better.

too bad she was a liar..

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."
--Hillary Clinton, speech at George Washington University, March 17, 2008

snip//

"Hillary Clinton has been regaling supporters on the campaign trail with hair-raising tales of a trip she made to Bosnia in March 1996. In her retelling, she was sent to places that her husband, President Clinton, could not go because they were "too dangerous." When her account was challenged by one of her traveling companions, the comedian Sinbad, she upped the ante and injected even more drama into the story. In a speech earlier this week, she talked about "landing under sniper fire" and running for safety with "our heads down."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/03/hillarys_balkan_adventures_par.html

[rug]

105. The question was about governing, not primary campaigns.

[Warren DeMontague]

80. Doubt it.

Illusions or no i dont think she would have accomplished nearly as much.

Which is not to say she wouldnt next time around- but I think going bush-clinton-bush-clinton would have been bad for the country and even more paralyzing, poltiically.

[Aristus]

2. It's a dichotomous situation:

No one here could do a better job than President Obama.

And anyone here could have done a better job than W...

[JustAnotherGen]

84. My four year old niece

Would have done a better job than W.

[Aristus]

103. And taken much cuter photos, too, I'll bet...

Would Republicans have castigated her for her 'lollipop salute'?

[Xipe Totec]

3. Ok, I'll bite. Who's PBO? nt

[Old and In the Way]

4. President Barack Obama

Was that really difficult to figure out, considering the subject of my post?

[Xipe Totec]

20. Yes, actually. Since the subject of your post was not obvious unless you knew what PBO meant

Cute TLAs are obstacles when you want to be understood.

[coldbeer]

76. That was a good question

It took me a moment to get it. Moments seem too precious to waste.

No, I could not do better than Barack, not even close.
He often disappoints me but through my personal faith
nearly everyone I associate with is like 'PBO and his
contemporaries', regardless of party.

My problem with my contempories is that I do not believe in
GOD. I know in GOD and that makes me an atheist.

It also makes my pledge to the flag meaningless (since about
1957, and I remember that very day when I was in the third grade).

PBO has to give in and when he does he often does it to
their chagrin because it is put back in their lap.

[jberryhill]

15. peanut butter & onion

[Old and In the Way]

26. That or Portland, Baltimore, and Ohio

RR. Anyone who has spent the last 6 years here and doesn't know what PBO means , is FUBAR.

[No Vested Interest]

36. It's not necessary to put down other DUers. In fact, it

diminishes the enjoyment of those who come here.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. Not me dude. I'm lazy as hell. My hat's off to PBO

[Old and In the Way]

10. We don't agree on much, but we are on the same page here.

This lazy bastard would never attempt to run for POTUS because I don't have the guts/character to attempt it. But I am ballsy enough to post my opinions on an anonymous posting board!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. me too, dude. I got the ovaries to prove it!

[NaturalHigh]

7. Oh, I don't know...maybe his primary opponent.

Hillary Clinton would have been a much better president, in my opinion.

[Old and In the Way]

33. cool, but the Republicon Media Machine would have custom tailored

Their opposition to her. Remember Vince Foster? Whitewater, Christmascardgate? There is no acceptable Democrat that doesn't capitulate as soon as they win the Presidency.

I will say this...I think HRC will be a great POTUS and won't waste her time trying to make friends with Republicans. She's been there, done that.

[NaturalHigh]

62. What was Christmascardgate?

I don't remember that one. That might have been while I was in Korea.

[KansDem]

87. Might be referring to this...

From May, 2013 --

Maddow took her viewers on a tour down memory lane, specifically to 1997, when House Reform and Oversight Committee Chairman Dan Burton made it his raison d’être to unseat then-President Bill Clinton, a quest that involved accusing Clinton of everything from doctoring fundraiser tapes to selling burial plots in Arlington National Cemetery. Burton also once shot a watermelon in his backyard as part of a recreation of the alleged murder of Vince Foster.

“For years, Dan Burton’s whole reason for being was to try to find a way to take down the presidency of Bill Clinton using the powers of his own office in the House,” Maddow said.

The most absurd of the faux-scandals involved a Christmas card the Clintons sent out in 1997. It wasn’t the card that caught Burton’s eye so much as the database of contact information the Clintons used to send it, which included the names and addresses of 350,000 of people they had met since moving into the White House.

“Congressional Republicans knew it was a scandal!” Maddow said, in a mock Columbo voice. “They suspected something nefarious. They thought the Christmas card list was somehow corrupt, criminal, an abuse of power. So Republicans held hearings. Republicans called up thirty-four witnesses to give depositions about the Christmas card list. They demanded more than 40,000 documents about the Christmas card list. They held days of hearings on the Christmas card list. And they accuse liberals of waging war on Christmas?”

“Despite all the hearings and the depositions and all the rest of it,” Maddow continued, “the Republican investigations into the Christmas card list turned up nothing. Sometimes a Christmas card is just a Christmas card.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rachel-maddow-mocks-gops-repeat-of-1990s-subpoenas-craze-its-going-to-be-a-long-hot-stupid-summer/

Video here --
http://videos.mediaite.com/video/Maddow-Mocks-GOPs-Repeat-Of-199

[NaturalHigh]

89. Ah...thanks for the info.

No, I don't remember that one.

[Boreal]

9. Dennis Kucinich

Would have been LIGHT YEARS better. "PBO" is just a tool of the banksters and corporations. Dennis is actually loyal to the constitution and the people. Naturally, that's why he didn't stand a chance.

[Old and In the Way]

17. So, all Democrats are stupid for not selecting DK?

Would you rather we have nominated DK and had Mitt Romney as President? DK would have disappointed you as sopn as he got elected and realized he had to work with a Republican Congress to get legislation passed. Unless you think DK would have have used his awesome influence to elect bullet-proof majorities in the House and Senate to get his agenda passed.


Fact is, DK wasn't capable of running a national campaign for nomination. Lots of brilliant people who get no traction. I voted/campaigned for George McGovern in 72...so what?

[Rhiannon12866]

18. He was my first choice, too, since 2003, actually

When they called him "unpatriotic" for opposing the invasion of Iraq - and he was outspoken about it. I always matched up with him 100% on those "which candidate is for you?" tests. But despite voting for Hillary Clinton twice for my senator, I matched up with Barack Obama more closely, so I was fine with voting for him. And he certainly has had the temperament for it. Most people would have lost it by now if they had to deal with the Congress that he has.

[Live and Learn]

37. I really like Kucinich, Dean and Sanders

but unless they get enough supporters, they are not electable. We can continue to work for the electability of those we admire but until we accomplish their electability we have little choice, after the primaries, to vote for someone who can win.

[FlatStanley]

79. Nobody is electable without enough supporters

[TexasProgresive]

98. And even if elected there is another problem

Last edited Sat Sep 27, 2014, 09:52 AM - Edit history (1)

They must have the support of the democratic members of congress. This was one of President Carter's troubles. He was scuttled by his own party members.

The president is one person and must be able to form a coalition of like and sorta like minded people- LBJ was able to do it because he knew where all the bodies were buried. We could hope that there is a candidate that could bring all of us closer together-not just the voters but the powers that be in the party. I don't think Ms. Clinton would be effective, certainly not as effective and Mr. Clinton. Whe has too many bodies of her own in shallow graves, (not referring to Vince Foster) metaphoric bodies. The one person i think had been able to bring us together in recent times was Dr. Howard Dean. The media took care of him because we are so shallow that a looped yell was more important than having a effective and electable leader.

I know it is (edit to change unwise to) impolitic to suggest such a thing since blaming the victim is frowned upon- but here goes- we get what we deserve when it comes to government.

"I am not a member of any organized party — I am a Democrat." --Will Rogers.

[baldguy]

86. The guy who brought a flip-chart presentation to a radio debate?

Right, he had a real chance to win the Oval Office.

[SidDithers]

96. ...

Sid

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. You will get no response from those you've highlighted ...

because that would require stating something beyond "NOT that ".

I must admit that, from time to time, I have to remind myself that all of this internet opposition is B.S. ... everyone posting on this board has zero accountability ... If the scenario in their head plays out as they imagine, they get big ups, but when it doesn't (as is frequently the case) they go dark and pretend they never said what they said ... and move on to the next "I know better" fantasy point.

[Live and Learn]

13. Funny, I made that same argument to my mother today.

She is so disgusted over the war not being ended that she is yelling at anyone that calls her for donations for Democrats. I am against the war too but reminded her that Obama had taken troops out and that this time at least we weren't sending troops in (yes, I recognize that their is debate over that). Obama is a hell of a lot better than Bush was.

And as easy as it is for us to sit back and decide what the best policy would be without being privy to all the intelligence (or un-intelligence, as the case may be), he is subject to it and must face anything that happens due to his decision to act or not act on it.

And, he can't undo what previous administration already have done. So, he may still well believe that we never should have gone in to Iraq but we did and are now suffering the consequences of that action.

I still think it would be better to acknowledge we made big mistakes and withdraw from the middle east completely but that would be political suicide.

[Old and In the Way]

22. Personally, Given the domestic/international structural mess dumped on him from the last administrat

I think he's done an unbelievably great job to keep this country together. I get that the morons who voted for Bush hate Obama, but did all of the uber progressives think he wouldn't have to deal with a Republican Congress to get whatever we wanted? I elected Hope and Change. Unfortunately, too many people also elected Despair and Status Quo by electing Congressional Republicans to negate whatever PBO could accomplish. Grayson, Sanders, Warren, or the most perfect liberal/progressive would have accomplished no more and probably less than Obama.

[Live and Learn]

27. But there is always hope of that miraculous one that can withstand all the pressures

and give us our miracle like FDR. Of course, FDR's miracles weren't instantaneous, not could he probably accomplish them today and he did take us in to a war many didn't want to be involved in too.

[bobGandolf]

31. Amen!

Under the circumstances (repug Congress) he has made substantial progress.

[JEB]

14. Ralph Nader.

[pkdu]

19. Best DUZY of the week! , well done. Nt

[pkdu]

21. Great question ....of course " crickets " from the do nothin hand-wringers on the board

None of us relishes what has to be done...but not a single poster is wiling to backup his/her "anti war " post with a " we should do nothing , ever , until they are firing RPGs at the whitehouse"

[kentuck]

23. A President needs an army when he goes to Washington...

Starting with leaders with majorities in both Houses of Congress. They have to be on the same page if they have ideas of reform or change.

Also, the President needs strong leaders, with an eye toward justice and equality, in his Cabinet Departments.

If the President doesn't have these assets around him, then he will spend most of his time fending off the barking dogs of the opposition.

[frazzled]

25. Ya see, here's how ya do it

Ya gets yourself elected by talking tough. That's all ya gots ta do, because the people wants it straight. Ya just has ta tell 'em the Republicans are a bunch of lousy capitalist pigs and yer in.

Then once ya gets yourself inside a' 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, ya calls in the big guns from Congress—Harry, Mitch, and the Bones man—and ya tells em: this is how we're gonna play it boys (there aren't any girls, except maybe Patty Murray and Nancy Pelosi, so ya don't has ta says 'girls'). And if they don't wanna talk turkey wid ya, ya tells 'em: okay boys, ya wanna play tough? Boom, yer gone. We don't need any lousy Congress.

So the first thing ya does is put all the banksters in the slammer. It's easy. Ya don't need six, eight years of trials and appeals and ya don't need no lousy so-called legal basis either. Ya just calls up yer newly anointed AG (remember, you've gotten rid of the lousy Congress problem, so it's easy, see?) and he prosecutes 'em. That's it. Attica, Sing Sing, wherever. Boom. Problem solved. Wall Street's over, ya lousy bums. And stop the vetching about all the pension funds that were invested there. Just pay the damned teachers and firemen. Anoint Bernie as Treasury Secretary. Keeping the economy going is just like tappin' sap in Vermont each spring. It'll flow, believe me.

So that's about it. Once the corporate whores are all in prison we can all sit back and have some medical marijuana and reminisce about FDR and the good ol' days. Oh, and tell someone to do somethin' about climate change. Just tell everyone to stop emitting carbon. That should do it. And then stop all this worrying about foreigners cause they're far away and we don't need to think about them. We just need to get rid of all the corporations. And then ... I don't know. Everyone can plant their own vegetable garden. Yeah, that's the ticket. Hey, don't bogart that joint.

[Old and In the Way]

28. Well, according to Republicans, he is the most ineffectual dictator ever.

And he oughtta salute the Marines with a dog rather than a coffee cup. Plus Benghazi111!!!!! 11!!!

[Euphoria]

38. Yeah, that's the ticket! nt

[Scootaloo]

30. I'm curious too...

Do you think that Barack Obama is the absolute pinnacle of Democratic achievement and potential, Old? Incapable of being surpassed?

[Old and In the Way]

41. Obviously, not...but I didn't vote for a Messiah, either.

Pretty simple, actually. Had Obama had bullet-proof majorities in the House and Senate...how is he different? Obama is a poker player...when he doesn't have the cards, all he can do is bluff. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he losses. If he has the cards (House/Senate majorities), he can't lose. With significant majorities, Boehner and McConnell fold like cheap suits before the first round of bidding.

[AZ Progressive]

55. A Roosevelt wouldn't have let a few rogue Democratic Senators push him around

Those few rogue senators were Obama's excuse to push through a watered down agenda.

[Scootaloo]

73. Gesundheit

Point being, don't pretend as though he's infallible and we should all feel bad for having criticisms. You want that kind of thinking, the Republicans are always hiring.

All he can do is bluff? Maybe. But if say, how he handled healthcare was a masturful bluff by him then I have to say I would love to play poker across from him.

[Old and In the Way]

41. Obviously, not...but I didn't vote for a Messiah, either.

Pretty simple, actually. Had Obama had bullet-proof majorities in the House and Senate...how is he different? Obama is a poker player...when he doesn't have the cards, all he can do is bluff. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he losses. If he has the cards (House/Senate majorities), he can't lose. With significant majorities, Boehner and McConnell fold like cheap suits before the first round of bidding.

[Old and In the Way]

58. what the hell happened there? a serious php fart, i think.

Time to call it a day...

[drmeow]

32. I have/had two problems with PBO

First - he kept the old financial guard. Right out of the gate that suggested to the public that he had not intention of changing any of the financial situation in this country.

Second - he was a poor negotiator in that he seemed to concede the most extreme position publicly without a fight every time. Part of that may have been naivety but after the first screwing by Congress he should have gotten wise.

I agree with some other posters that Hillary would have been able to play the DC game better.

But, then, neither ever really matched my ideological position. Both are far too close to the center for me. I did not vote for Obama in the primary and never would have. But I voted for and made GOTV calls for him in the general because the alternative was too terrible to contemplate.

I'll never stop voting but I have no faith in ever being able to vote anyone into the White House who actually represents my views in the current climate.

[AZ Progressive]

35. So you don't believe there are people out there that could be as great as Teddy Roosevelt or FDR?

Are we that fucked that Obama's the best we got? Cmon! Our generation is an embarassment to America.

Anyway, it's not about Obama's stances, but that he's a weak leader and that he says one thing but does something else or just doesn't follow through. He even lets the neocons to push him around. And that's being nice to him, as people more cynical can suspect more from Obama.

Teddy Roosevelt and FDR had 10 times the bravery of Obama, and were criticized as autocratic but got stuff done. Obama's more like Taft and Carter, good heart but weak.

[Live and Learn]

41. I love the Roosevelts too.

But we are viewing them through rose colored historical glasses. Did you watch the PBS series? Teddy was basically a warmonger. And FDR only became the empathetic guy he was due to his illness. FDR was only able to get many of his acts passed by luck and couldn't do everything he wanted. I addition, FDR wanted to go to war even before most of America was on board with the idea.

[AZ Progressive]

57. Well, Obama's not much better than the Roosevelts in foreign policy

Obama's already restarted both the Cold War and the Iraq War.

Still, we need someone with the bravery of the Roosevelts or Lincoln to save America again. Maybe we all should've known that Obama only talked the talk, but didn't have the bravery to walk the walk.

[Live and Learn]

63. I am upset by the bombings too but we can't really compare them to

the Cold War or the Iraq war.

Finding the right person at the right time is difficult. Who in their right mind would even agree to try? Certainly not I.

[AZ Progressive]

69. So was America lucky three times?

We had Lincoln that saved America from falling apart.
We had Teddy Roosevelt that, along with his successors that copied his progressivism, saved America from the big corporations and the influence of the 1%.
We had FDR that saved America from economic collapse and enabled a tax system that favored economic equality (by punishing excessive wealth) and that was, along with WWII and the GI Bill (also by FDR), responsible for the dominance of the American Middle Class throughout the postwar years.

So has America lucked out?

[Live and Learn]

71. Yes, and they all made mistakes too.

Our choices are severely limited by who has the economic means and desire to run. And it really is not an easy job.

[frazzled]

59. Yeah, I just bet you would've loved

it when FDR had 120,000 people of Japanese heritage removed from their homes and sent to camps for a couple of years. And when the Social Security Act just happened to leave most women and minorities out of the program:

Job categories that were not covered by the act included workers in agricultural labor, domestic service, government employees, and many teachers, nurses, hospital employees, librarians, and social workers.[7] The act also denied coverage to individuals who worked intermittently.[8] These jobs were dominated by women and minorities. For example, women made up 90 percent of domestic labor in 1940 and two-thirds of all employed black women were in domestic service.[9] Exclusions exempted nearly half of the working population.[8] Nearly two-thirds of all African Americans in the labor force, 70 to 80 percent in some areas in the South, and just over half of all women employed were not covered by Social Security.[10][11] At the time, the NAACP protested the Social Security Act, describing it as “a sieve with holes just big enough for the majority of Negroes to fall through.”[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Social_Security_in_the_United_States#Dates_of_coverage_for_various_workers

And then there was that pesky recession of 1937-38, when the unemployment rate jumped from 14.3% to 19% (way worse than the 6.1% we have now.) And those 400,000 American deaths in World War II: you would have welcomed them, I bet.

(Note: I do think FDR was our greatest president. I also think he made a number of really bad judgments that we choose to ignore or forget.)

Nostalgia's a bitch.

[Live and Learn]

64. +1 Yikes, I left that one out. Shame on me. nt

[AZ Progressive]

66. Obama isn't much better

Obama's increasingly becoming a disaster in foreign policy and in protecting civil liberties.

And we don't at least get the good parts of the Roosevelts, like the chutzpah that's required to battle against the elites.

[sendero]

93. I remember the night he was elected..

.... I was elated but at the same time its as if I knew what was in store. I wondered, would he be kind of exceptional leader we needed at that moment in time?

The answer is clearly no. He's not a bad person and he's not a conventional crook, but he is a mediocre leader at best and he will be remembered as such in the future when everything has had time to sort out.

If Obama ever practiced to make his actions match his rhetoric, it would be a different story.

[AZ Progressive]

40. And BTW, we Needed an FDR, and all we got was someone pretending to be one

A Clintonite, Clinton for one who is part of the problem (selling out the Democratic Party to Corporate America.) Yes Obama has done a lot of bone throwing, but Obama hasn't really done shit to change the fundamental problems of America, and in fact is actively contributing to the problem in things like foreign policy.

[Cha]

56. President Obama doesn't "pretend" to be anyone else. He is who he is.. and he's been a great

President..

[AZ Progressive]

60. Obama made everyone believe that he would be a transformative president

And yet hardly anything has been done to turn the tides in terms of Americans' economic well being and in pushing back against the continuing influence of Reaganomics in Washington.

[Cha]

68. President Obama is a transformative President.

[AZ Progressive]

70. In your World

In the Real World, America is even farther down the path of fascism than during Bush. Obama's already been more aggressive than Bush in pushing back against civil liberties.

[cui bono]

78. Yup! He's transforming a center party into a right of center party.

Yay!

[JoePhilly]

102. Guess you should go find us an FDR.

[Cha]

61. There's more than a few who are never appreciative of what they have.. always thinking

the grass would have greener if only Hillary would have won. Too bad she didn't know the ground rules to play by.

Too bad she hired that idiot Mark Penn to manage her disastrous campaign.. and who's running her show now.. he/she's not any better.

Thank Goodness we have President Obama.

[Samantha]

65. I support the President and the decisions he has made regarding the ISIS uprising

I do not go on the threads condemning him for his actions on this matter because I see no one who is critical offering any other viable solution to the problem. To do nothing is unacceptable. In one of his recent speeches, he quoted Martin Luther King's words to the effect there is no wrong time to do the right thing. That is a very fitting quote because to sit by and do nothing is unthinkable. There is only a small window of time left before this situation becomes totally beyond control. I think he listened to many of his advisors and painstakingly came up with a plan that is extremely smart.

Overall, history will regard him as a great president who faced incredible opposition from both Republicans in Congress and bigots throughout the Country who refuse to accept a President of color sitting in the Oval Office.

I have not agreed with everything he has done -- and I have been outspoken here when I have disagreed with him on those issues. But I still remain impressed with his aplomb under extreme pressure and his dedication to his position.

Sam

[applegrove]

72. Nobody could have accomplished as much.

GOP has half the country in a bubble and they rarely get to see or hear Obama. Never has any party gone after the President on foreign policy like the GOP has in the last two years. And they've put the USA in more danger by doing so. Imagine if Ronnie Reagan had not negotiated nukes with the russians when he had the chance back in the 1980s. Well the GOP tried to stop Obama negotiating nukes with Iran. We don't know if it will work out but you cannot deny the detente. And how important it is. All the while the GOP. wail against Benghazi. Oh they are so creepy in how they want O bama to fail at the expence of peace. They are purely political animals. Not human beings. That's no longer the GOP's constituency - humans. They are a machine. Like the NAZIs were in the early years, people putting aside their own personal nartative and replacing it with a singular philosophy. Obama has done more than anyone else could have save perhaps FDR, but FDR had access to the whole country through fireside chats. I would love to see Obama have a do over with a congress out for human beings instead of the koch brothers.

[Number23]

74. "no call outs because they are the amongst the very smartest people who post here."

Good one!!!!

[cali]

75. No call outs. Uh, that's just what you did.

Ugh.

I can tell you what I wouldn't have done: I wouldn't have pushed the TPP. I wouldn't have appointed such people as Froman and Siddiqi. I would have kept my word about reforming NAFTA. I would have directed the JD to criminally prosecute some of the egregious Wall Street/Banking cases.

and try reading for comprehension. Yes, I've criticized the President. I've also praised and defended him on such issues as the ACA.

[cui bono]

77. You talk as if people are not supposed to hold their public officials accountable,

as if one is not allowed to criticize a public servant unless they are going to go out and try to do the job themselves. You seem to think that is not how a democracy functions, that that is not the very nature of how a democracy is supposed to function. It is a government by the people and for the people. One that governs (or is supposed to govern) by the consent of the people.

How do you think that can happen if we're supposed to hold our tongues if we don't run and get elected POTUS ourselves? That's quite a ridiculous notion you have there when you consider how many presidents there can be in a decade and how many citizens this country has. Care to calculate that? Just to see what an impossible feat that would be, to have everyone meet your criteria and be deemed worthy by you to criticize the president?

If you don't like how democracy works and you can't accept the fact that people have a right to critical thinking and analysis, you know, free speech and all those other quaint rights that our constitution gives us, then perhaps this is not the country best suited to your desires/needs/requirements of others.

[stillwaiting]

91. I love your post, and your rebuttal is well-deserved.

It seems a few too many people around here think criticism of a Democratic President is simply not allowed.

And, President Obama has done and not done many things that warrant being criticized. When he does or does not do these things we HAVE to criticize him or else the elite will do even worse to the 99% than they already are doing.

Of course, when Obama does things that warrant praise, it is important to give it as well.

And, most of the posters that were called out in this OP HAVE praised Obama on occasions where he deserved it. I wish those occasions where Obama deserved praise were more frequent from my point of view. Note: I am talking about actions and not speeches here from Obama. Obama gives speeches that are often amazing. His actions many times do not back up those speeches.

Edited for clarification

[Cha]

81. Eugene Robinson: "Obama’s transformational presidency"

"Obama’s impact has been to bring the words “fairness” and “equality” back into the political lexicon.

His biggest legislative accomplishment, the Affordable Care Act, is a landmark because it establishes the principle that health care should be considered a right, not a privilege. Democrats such as Harry Truman — and Republicans such as Richard Nixon — sought for decades to move the nation toward universal care. The fact that Obama succeeded where others failed is, in itself, a huge achievement."

Health care is part of a larger suite of issues on which Obama has swung the pendulum back to the left. He made the case, for example, that more regulation of the financial sector was needed. Republicans were forced to give way. The president has been hammering away in speeches about the need for an increase in the minimum wage. Republicans haven’t caved on this yet, but in the end they almost surely will because of widespread public support for it."

snip//

"But he can still have transformational impact. Working through the Environmental Protection Agency, Obama can take major steps to limit carbon emissions. I don’t know whether he’ll go as far as I believe he should, but whatever he does will be, by definition, a big deal."

snip//

The president realizes that even the most powerful nation on earth cannot mediate every dispute, take sides in all wars, alleviate all suffering. He acknowledges our limitations and more narrowly defines our national interest. The public approves, even if some foreign policy sages are apoplectic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-obamas-transformational-presidency/2014/05/08/d30a7190-d6e6-11e3-95d3-3bcd77cd4e11_story.html

[Hekate]

82. ~*~

[Cha]

83. "..Influential minds.." Rofl

[woo me with science]

85. Yeah, yeah, we know. "War is Peace!"

And Obama is actually a liberal who has merely been obstructed, and the chocolate ration has really and truly been increased. We know the script by heart.

Unfortunately, it's a fictional script. Barack Obama and corporate Democrats have accomplished a great deal (see lists below). The problem is that most of it was aggressively and proactively on behalf of the One Percent, at the expense of the rest of us.

Gotta give credit to the message machine, though. The constant drumbeat to pretend that Obama is really a liberal who has merely been obstructed never stops.

Unfortunately, reality is reality. We have been here the whole time, remember?

The record shows aggressive, proactive pursuit of a corporate agenda.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3202395

CUT THE CRAP! Your Month in Review from the most "progressive" administration ever.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025006297

Study: Obama's "Trade" Deal (TPP) Would Mean a Pay Cut for 90% of U.S. Workers
http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2013/09/the-verdict-is-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-a-sweeping-free-trade-deal-under-negotiation-with-11-pacific-rim-coun.html

Obama’s Latest Betrayal of America and Americans in Favor of the Big Banks: TISA
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/26/1309671/--Obama-s-Latest-Betrayal-of-America-and-Americans-in-Favor-of-the-Big-Banks-TISA-by-Bill-Black

[GeorgeGist]

88. My first act as President ...

would have been to have Bush and Cheney arrested at my inauguration, and sent to Gitmo as enemy combatants.

[BeyondGeography]

90. Maybe we haven't suffered enough yet

Very wise.

My armchair reading of history is that only disaster brings change. The kind of disaster that levels a place. How did Germany become a pacifist nation, e.g. What we have in this country is a situation where one of the two parties is hell-bent on doing whatever it can to clear the way for rich owners to live out their dreams of unfettered wealth accumulation by whatever means necessary. That includes subverting the democratic process and any/all protections for exploitable human and capital resources.

The result, as we know, is not pretty for the average individual, including the average white individual. I thought GWB might have risen (or sunk) to the necessary level for enough of these folks to start voting differently, but too many either remain invested in the fantasy that government and its nonwhite dependents are the problem or are easily seduced by the GOP.

The problem, for all of us, is they haven't suffered enough and suffering is what another Republican President will bring. It is also what Barack Obama has prevented while moving this country forward socially and environmentally. He has done great work, given all the structural impediments.

[madokie]

92. Couple of those names never show up on my screen anymore

with a third fixing to be. They know who they are too.
I don't want to hear how bad the president is I want to read how we can help to make things better, not that the finger can be pointed and ranted and raved. I get it that they're mad but I don't want to hear it, I get mad too from time to time but I don't bring that madness here with rants and raves. If the truth was known I suspect the madness has nothing to do with politics nor DU but occurrences in personal lives, but they bring that mad here in the form of cussing my President. Who by the way is trying his heart out to make things better, more equitable for all of us.

[Union Scribe]

100. "I don't bring that madness here with rants and raves"

Coulda fooled me with that post alone.

[madokie]

101. You're easy then :-)

Peace and have a good day

[cui bono]

108. You are saying a few of the best minds on DU are afflicted with "madness"???

You are so off the mark with that post. Every bit of it is ridiculous. Especially the part where you psychoanalyze those you don't agree with - being that you say some of the named DUers of the OP are on your ignore list I can tell it's at least one of the best minds on DU - saying they are afflicted with "madness" and "the madness has nothing to do with politics nor DU but occurrences in personal lives".

The posters you are referring to are not attacking Obama personally, they are criticizing policy. If you have a problem with that then you don't deserve to be a citizen in a democracy as you have no idea how one works.

You don't want to hear any criticism? Why not? How else do you think we make things better, which is what you seem to want? How? Do you subscribe to the Britney Spears school of politics then? Or is it the low information voter school of politics? Remember the Dixie Chicks and how no one was supposed to criticize Bush? Because informed and thoughtful people who pay attention to politics will discuss policy and criticize it when it needs it, praise it when it deserves it. If you don't want to hear critical analysis why are you on a political discussion board?

Lastly, how is Obama trying to make things better and more equitable for all of us? Serious question. Please address the KXL pipeline, TPP, escalated prosecution of whistleblowers, back room deals with insurance companies while ignoring single-payer advocates, the lack of investigation, prosecution and re-regulation of Wall Street, the installation of Wall Street in the White House via appointments, the Monsanto exec at the EPA... Please be sure to address all of these in your response because these are big issues and I would like to understand how these are being done to "make things better, more equitable for all of us".

[99Forever]

94. There are several that would have at least made the effort.

Instead, "PBO" capitulated so often it left many thinking he was nothing more than Republican Lite. He, and his staffs cheap shots at us "lefties" showed his true colors.

Many promises were made and not followed thru on.

[woo me with science]

95. Its so cute how the Third Way talking points keep trying to pretend

that Obama is really and truly a liberal who has merely been obstructed.

That despite a relentless, aggressive, PROACTIVE record of predatory corporatism by a Nobel Peace Prize winner now in the process of bombing his seventh Muslim country.

[SidDithers]

97. DU rec...

Nicely done.



Sid

[Donald Ian Rankin]

99. The big question is "could someone else have had longer coat-tails?"

I don't think any democrat could have pushed much legislation past the current congress.

What we will never know is whether a different president, or the same president with a different strategy, might have succeeded in retaking Congress even the face of the gerrymander, or threatening to do so, and whether they might have put the Democrats in a stronger position for Senate elections.

I certainly can't propose a strategy that I think would have been likely to do so, but that does not mean one does not exist.

[librechik]

104. He had the biggest mandate ever. He used it to keep things as close to same as possible

He could have used that mandate to start pushing single payer and Wall Street reform from day one. Instead he spent a year trying to make friends with the ruthless bloodthirsty criminals America was screaming at him to put in jail.

Yeah, I could have done better.

[Corruption Inc]

106. You'd really like to hear about closing torture camps and imprisoning bankers?

You just did. How about universal health care? Freedom of the press? Whistle blower protections? One-third of all Americans in collections? Oops, I just mentioned issues that effect everyone.

Here's some ideas: close Gitmo, put banking criminals on trial for conspiring against Americans, universal health care, freedom of the press, whistle blower protections and economic and military policies that aren't formed by republicans.

Have fun calling me out, I'll wear it as a badge of honor.

[Zorra]

107. I sincerely, and reluctantly, offered my service in the Oval Office in 2011, on DU. See below.

Unfortunately, for the people of the world, I was not nominated. It's too late now, it was a one time offer; best to make hay while the sun shines. You snooze, you lose. Things are now way too far gone for me to be able to fix now, the Third Way has totally destroyed the Democatic Party in service of the 1%, and now only non-violent revolution can bring about the changes necessary to create genuine democracy in the US.

Could I have done better than Obama? Well, let's just say, I would definitely have at least made a serious effort to do so.

It's not so much what Obama didn't accomplish, it's mostly that he didn't even make an effort to accomplish the critical things that needed to be done, and made no explanation to us as to why he did not even try to accomplish these very necessary things.

Anyway, here's my offer, the underlined paragraph below is a current edit.

Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-29-11 02:29 PM
Original message

I guess I'm gonna run for President.

Edited on Tue Mar-29-11 02:44 PM by Zorra
I don't really want or need much, so if y'all just pay me $10 an hour (just for 40 hrs a week, no OT) so I can pay for my food, and some reasonably affordable medical bennies, I'll work for you. I'll live in an RV powered by solar on the WH grounds so I don't have to cost y'all much to support me. I'll use my own car and bicycle, and take public transpo when flying somewhere necessary. I can make my own lunches, too.

I promise never to lie to you. You can put everything I do as President on live video, (except for some hours when I sleep, or shit like critical national security issues that can't be in the open cuz it would counterproductive, but you can televise all the entrances to my place 24/7 and monitor communications if you want) kind of like a reality show, only real reality. I don't really want anything, except for everyone to be as happy as posiible and have enough to eat and stuff like that. So I have nothing to gain except to serve my people and create a better world for everyone. I don't particularly want to do this cuz it will be a real hassle, but I think I would do a really good job at it, so I'd do it for awhile, I don't have much of anything better to do but contemplate existence and that gets old after awhile. And hey, if someone wants to shoot me, no BFD. I'm gonna die someday anyway. Can't scare me.

I will lean on Congress so hard that they will either do what is right for the American people or I will clearly expose their corrupt ulterior motivations (gaining wealth and power through service to wealthy private interests) individually and collectively for everyone to see.

The first thing I will do after my inauguration is issue an Executive Order ending all lobbying of public officials by anyone or anything (corporations are NOT people) and making it a major felony to offer public officials money (other than their salary/bennies of course). In the same EO, I will make it a major felony for a public official to accept money. Punishable by life in prison. I'll shoot it out with SCOTUS later.

The second EO will declare that the recent SCOTUS bench legislation allowing unlimited funding of political campaigns is an imminent threat and clear and present danger to our country, and that the SCOTUS bench legislation is moot. I'll shoot it out with SCOTUS later.

The third EO will outlaw electronic voting and establish a transparent voting system that will be as incorruptible and foolproof as is humanly possible, probably based on the Canadian model.

I'm real good at managing money. If Congress cooperates, I will balance the budget by ending wars, cutting defense spending, and taxing corporations and the wealthy at the same rate that was in effect during the Eisenhower administration. Balancing the budget really shouldn't be too hard if given an honest try. I will assemble a team of talented, dedicated, honest people with no ulterior motives (corporate interests) eliminating unnecessary spending that is not fully geared to the benefit of human beings. Banks and corporations will be regulated beyond their ability to cause deliberate economic harm or any significant economic harm caused by incompetence or unabashed greed. Fines for violating these regulations will be massive enough to be a very strong deterrent to corruption. Severe ciminal penalties will be in place where applicable. No company will want to risk it.

Then, New Deal II begins ASAP, with the cooperation of Congress, of course. Anyone that wants to, and is willing and able to work, will be able to get a job. Might be minimum wage, but that can't be helped. Rebuilding infrastructure and implementing alternative energy systems en masse will be main projects of New Deal II. A major investment in education will be at the top of the agenda.

Universal single payer healthcare will be established during my administration.

The primary key to the success of my administration will be absolute honesty, integrity, incorruptibility (is that a word? you know what I mean if it ain't) and all around ability . It will be all out in the open, no secrecy, no bullshit. Any pol tries to pull dishonest bullshit I'll personally call them out and shame them in public. You'll see exactly where your money is going, and what your government is doing.

I will do everything in my power to protect you from economic, social, political, and physical harm caused by wealthy private interests and any governments or terrorist agents they may employ to attempt to overthrow our government again.

Guess you already figured we won't be wasting our money on unneccessary wars anymore, so we close up shop in whatever countries we're occupying at the time, and bring the troops home.

Anyway, that's a start. We'll have to work some of the bugs out of course. But here's the thing: We can do this. Again, simple honesty and transparency, common sense, reasonable intelligence, will, dedication, imagination, sincere motivation, character, and ability are all we need to retake our government, and create for ourselves a really awesome nation to live in and raise our children in.

If someone caps me, the ball will still be rolling. I guarantee my VP will be smarter, more capable, more dedicated, and better looking than me.

If you want real change, the rough blueprint is above. That's pretty much all I have to say. Oh, yeah, don't ever send me any money.

So, anyway, vote for me, my name is Zorra, and let's get this thing done so I can get back to hangin' at the beach ASAP.

Thanks. Have an awesome day.

Peace

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x767568

[cbayer]

109. Locking as disruptive meta.

The hosts are particularly concerned about the calling out of specific members and suggest this could be presented for discussion without doing that.