" "We have no choice. These are barbarians. They intend to kill us.

[cali]

And if we don't destroy them first, we're gonna pay the price."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/barbarians-boehner-says-america-may-need-ground-troops-fight-isis-n213466

what a pile of fear mongering dog shit from John Bonehead. Yeah, ISIS is going to invade us and we have no security in place. They're just going to arrive by the boatload and kill tousle haired children in their innocent sleep.

[spanone]

1. if it's so important, why doesn't the speaker call congress back to do their duty?

[Cleita]

5. +1000

[H2O Man]

8. Perfect response

to his nonsense.

[spanone]

11. and why didn't the media ask this question of the speaker?

[Paladin]

12. Don't hold your breath.

They're enjoying their perpetual game of Make The Black Guy Look Bad too much.

[malaise]

41. +1,000

It's all about fear and nothing else.

[spanone]

42. you'd think if americans were in imminent danger of being killed, boehner would call the house

to session.

but hey, if americans died, they could blame it on Obama and his 'weak' foreign policy.

[malaise]

43. They so want an attack under Obama

Remember 9/11 happened under Bush's watch and they know we know despite the non-stop lies about Bush keeping America safe.

[bullwinkle428]

48. Putting it off until NEXT FUCKING JANUARY.

[valerief]

2. Give them weapons, train them, provoke them to attack, then go to war against them

and make a bundle of money!

We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've always been at war with Oceania.

[hobbit709]

3. He doesn't look in the mirror much when talking about barbarians does he?

[CJCRANE]

4. Boehner has the choice to stay at home and play with his monkey...

[TwilightGardener]

6. They pressured Obama into an Afghan SURGE! that was a bad idea, and now they're pressuring him

into a futile Iraq ground war, just as fucking futile as the last one. There is a fundamental and willful misreading of what is happening in Iraq and Syria--the administration (correctly) wants it to be a mostly air operation, of long and low-intensity duration, requiring patience, with locals holding their own ground, rooting out terrorists. The Repubs/neocons want an UNPOPULAR debacle of a ground war as if we're fighting Saddam's army and conquering the Iraqi people all over again, which would cause Democrats to lose forever into the future and would be called Obama's Vietnam. It's not hard to see what's going on. If the Repubs want to campaign on infantry standing on Iraqi street corners getting blown up, let them.

[morningfog]

9. Are you suggesting that Obama's war decisions are purely political?

He chooses acts of war to save domestic face?

I don't think that is accurate. And if it were, it is essentially criminal.

[TwilightGardener]

13. No. I have no idea why you would get that out of what I said.

[morningfog]

14. What did you mean by being "pressured" into

His orders for war.

[TwilightGardener]

16. The military (Petraeus, McChrystal) started leaking their wishes for a

big troop surge in Afghanistan to various media outlets in 2009--that was intended to put public/political pressure on Obama to give in to their strategy. Obama clearly wasn't sure he wanted to dig in to Afghanistan to that extent. His instincts were right, because we haven't done much there except waste shitloads of money building massive projects for nothing and fighting the Taliban to a stalemate. But he listened to the generals, as everyone always screams at him to do. He's obviously trying to assert himself more now, so the "listen to the generals!!" screaming is naturally getting louder. The Repubs are the ones with the strongest political motivations here--they refuse to vote on this war, because then they can vaguely say they support it, but still take potshots at Obama, and if it gets unpopular, well hey--THEY never voted for it! Now it's Obama's quagmire!

[morningfog]

18. In other words, he acted contrary to what he thought

was in the best interest of the troops and the country because of political pressure?

[TwilightGardener]

20. No, he gave more weight to the military's advice than to his own instincts.

What he wanted was to stabilize Afghanistan to the furthest extent possible, and leave--that was his desired outcome. The military leadership's desired outcome is always to put in more troops, stay, and fight. I don't think he understood that in 2009, but he understands it now.

[Katashi_itto]

7. Are we talking about Republicans?

[Rhinodawg]

10. In all fairness....

Last edited Sun Sep 28, 2014, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Your interpretation of what he said is bullshit. I'm no fan of his but let's break down what he said..

We have no choice...that's what my president said.

Barbarians?....I'd say so.

We're going to pay a price....we may have already started in OK.

If we don't destroy them first....says Pres. Obama

We're going to pay a price...we may already have.



Your interpretation is.....ooooga booga .

[spanone]

15. the President acted on his words. boehner's congress has done shit.

[OilemFirchen]

17. If by OK, you mean the workplace beheading...

then for literal fucks's sake.

[cali]

22. YOU made up your little heap of..... baloney. I fucking QUOTED him. period.

your view of things is so one dimensional and, well, I can't say it or I'd get a hide. now do return, dawg, to your standard "ISIS is the worst evil in the world" crap. That's what you do. You and John.

[Rhinodawg]

23. That is a bald face lie.

"what a pile of fear mongering dog shit from John Bonehead. Yeah, ISIS is going to invade us and we have no security in place. They're just going to arrive by the boatload and kill tousle haired children in their innocent sleep. "

YOUR WORDS....boner sucks enough.

But don't be like them and make up shit.


Ooooooga boooooooga.

[reddread]

27. yeah but you fabricate quotes

that kind of cuts into your credibility

[Rhinodawg]

32. What do you mean "kind of " ?

thaaaaaank you.

[reddread]

36. gotta be kind to animals, why not posters?

I begin to realize my sensitivity to creative quotation marks may stem from a political reporter who simply made up a quote from myself, as harmless as the "statement" was, I seriously doubt it approximated anything I would say, even while trying to drink myself stupider.
when posters here put more energy into redefining and misrepresenting what someone actually said using quotes around their interpretation, RATHER than illuminating their own views and opinions, I find that really sad.
and unacceptable.
cheesy, cowardly, dishonest and lazy.

[Rhinodawg]

37. Excellent insightful well-reasoned post.

"cheesy, cowardly, dishonest and lazy."

Man, if that doesn't say it all.

[morningfog]

30. My response to your bullshit:

We have no choice...that's what my president said -- That is fundamentally untrue. This is purely a matter of choice.

Barbarians?....I'd say so. -- No worse than most of the other rebel groups in Syria and the Syrian Army.

We're going to pay a price....we may have already started on OK. -- We'll that is just pathetically dumb.

If we don't destroy them first....says Pres. Obama -- Mushroom cloud over and American City? Are you serious?

We're going to pay a price...we may already have -- Obama's ISIS war has cost $1 billion so far. And it been going for about a month and a half.

[Rhinodawg]

31. I understand...Your problem is with your President.

[morningfog]

33. My problem is unnecessary war as policy.

We are killing civilians and radicalizing yet another generation. No one has asked us to bomb Syria. It is just a dumb thing to do.

To the extent that Obama gave the order, I disagree and think he has gravely erred. It has nothing to with Obama as a person.

[Rhinodawg]

35. I think honest people can disagree.

I respect your view.

you bring up some intelligent, well-reasoned, thoughtful points and were very polite. (Not like some who get some sick perverted satisfaction of bludgeoning people who disagree with her/him...no names of course)

Obama , try as he might, didn't want to go back go back. I just don't think he had many choices.

I respect your pov.

[JHB]

19. How many combatants does ISIS a have? How does that number stack up against...

...the number of nuclear warheads we and the Soviets were pointing at each other?

And aren't Bonehead and Lindsay Graham old enough to remember those days?

[Thinkingabout]

21. Has there been a intelligence briefing to the public in which I missed?

[TheKentuckian]

24. What intelligence are we supposed to pretend could exist? Do they have 10,000 jedi?

A satellite based weapons system?

Do all their guys have Iron Man suits?

Is it mutant powers?

Stolen alien spaceships and or weaponry?

Can they teleport and if so can they send objects too?

Are they led by a composite clone of history's greatest warriors, leaders, and tacticians?

[Thinkingabout]

25. Congress had an intelligegnce briefing and I thought I missed when the public was briefed.

There seems to be a lot of opinions here and maybe some have access to intelligence on ISIS. By the news reports they seem fairly brutal.

[TheKentuckian]

47. Brutality is not in short supply whether the corporate media has a reason to spoon feed it to

you or not.

[Thinkingabout]

52. Reality is something we are faced with everyday.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. The British are coming! The Indians are coming! The Russians, Vietnamese, Cubans, Grenadians...

Same song, different bogeymen.

[daleanime]

28. K&R....

[morningfog]

29. It is fear mongering, unfortunately, it is consistent with what Obama's chief military advisor says.

Dempsey, who with Hagel, is Obama's source of military advice, said if the air strikes fail, he'll recommend US troops.

As we are seeing, the airstrikes are not succeeding. Now, they have given themselves three years and no actual metric for success, so it is simply up to them when they say, "Time for ground troops." At that point, Obama will speak to the nation again and tell us why a small contingent of ground troops will need to "assist" in combat. Etc, etc.

[randome]

34. Yes, it's fear mongering. But consider this.

American culture is full of stories, songs, movies about love. We're fairly overflowing with it. Islamic culture? Not so much.

Now you can say that doesn't necessarily reflect the day-to-day culture in America, or that too often, sex is the primary objective, and you would be right, but we have this overwhelming need to at least communicate about love.

I suppose love outside religion, arranged marriages and 'keeping women in their place' exists in Islamic culture but to what extent?

Anyways, just a thought I had today. I don't agree that Islamic culture is 'barbaric' but it sure as hell is a lot different from that of the Western world, wouldn't you say? And they could benefit from loosening their restrictions on women.

Bombs are not the way to do that, of course. But I can't see that the hardened terrorists in the Islamic world know much about love. It may be an alien concept to them. Maybe that's part of the problem?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

[cali]

38. Rumi. and American culture is also filled with violent myth and stories.

[randome]

39. Well, 800 years is a long time between cultural expressions of love.

What about Islamic culture today? It would seem to me that if Rumi had a lasting effect, then others would spring up with more of the same because imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and also because creativity depends mightily on it. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.

Of course American culture is decadent in some ways. But the concept of love is strong in our culture. It does not appear to be the same in Islamic cultures and I think that's a key part of what separates us.

And will always separate us?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[CJCRANE]

45. Popular culture is overflowing with violence.

A lot of jihadis are western teenagers attracted by playing violent video games for real..

The language msny politicians and pundits use is a mirror image of the jihadis spiel.

"We're going to hunt them down wherever they are. We're going to wipe them out".

The neocons/theocons and jihadis need each other.

Both are hypnotized by their own propaganda.

They both need deprogramming.

[randome]

46. Well, politicians and pundits are only a small subset of our overall culture.

So is violence porn.

We have thousands of expressions of love and sex every single year in America. Islamic cultures in general don't permit this.

And yes, our politicians could use some deprogramming. So could theirs.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[cali]

49. but violence in popular culture is not a small subset at all.

this argument is just dumb.

[NightWatcher]

40. Wolverines!!!

The minute that the first ISIL soldier paratroops into town, I will load up the truck with my buddies and all our gear and we will fight them.

Until then, they are not a threat to my neighborhood.

[pampango]

44. They are little threat to kill us, John. They mainly kill Iraqis and Syrians. I doubt

that really bothers you that much.

[Orsino]

50. You haven't seen their awesome Navy.

No one else has, either.

[Feral Child]

51. "We HAVE to fight them there

so we don't have to fight them here. (tm)"

Where have we heard this same song before?